The relative strength of the Premier League

Wumminator

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In this thread I am going to discuss the strength of the premier league. I don’t care if you think I am WUMming, I don’t care if you think I am completely wrong, please don’t post in here if you’re not going to contribute well.


I see a lot of people saying we have a weaker league now than

a) Five years ago

b) Other leagues

I think we couldn’t be further from the truth. We actually have the strongest league I think I’ve ever seen right now, the quality is immense. From players like Lukaku, Butland and Cabaye being regulars in bottom ten sides to teams like Arsenal, Chelsea and United struggling while being filled with star studded players.


For this post I will compare the 5th, 11th and 15th team in the league (Why not 10th? Because Chelsea are there and I don’t think there performance this year is a true reflection of where they should be, even though it does suggest the league is strong)


The first post will be the fifth placed team.

I will try and shoehorn the players with the most appearances into the starting line ups, and put the other big names on the bench.


This is Manchester United, currently (and comfortably) fifth.


---------------DDG-------------

Darmian- Smalling – Blind – Young

------------Carrick---Schniderlin-------

Martial-------Mata---------Memphis

---------------Rooney-------------


Subs: Romero, Jones, Lingard, Herrera, Shaw, Valencia, Fellaini


Now all of these players are recognized internationals and we have some proper world class talent. DDG, Martial and Smalling the real stand outs.


Without comment I will present other related teams.

Tottenham (Five years ago)


--------------Gomes--------------

Hutton – Gallas – Kaboul --- Assou Ekotto

---------------Sandro----------------

----------Modric----Palacios---------

Lennon--------Crouch --------Bale


Subs: Cudicini, Defoe, Corluka, Jenas, Pavlychenko, Bassong, Van Der Vaart


FSV Mainz (Germany)

---------------Lorius Karius --------------

Brosinski – Bell – Bungert – Bengstton

-------------------Baumgartlinger----------

---------------Latza-----Frei--------------

Clemens-------Malli—----------Samperio

-------------------Muto-------------------

Subs: De Blasis, Balogun, Neiderlechner, Cordoba, Moritz, Jara,


Sevilla (Spanish)

---------------------Rico--------------

Coke – Rami – Kolodziejczak – Tremoulinas

---------------N’zonzi-------------------

Vitolo--------Krohn-Delhi----Konoplayanka-

------------Gameiro----------Llorente-------------

Subs: Soria, Banega, Krychowiak, Reyes, Mariano, Immobile, Iborra.


Does this not suggest to anyone right away the quality of the respective leagues?
 
Last edited:

Wumminator

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Just a quick comparison from me.

For a start, as we will see throughout these comparisons, the German league is way way way behind in terms of star power and quality in their league. The Mainz line up seems particularly weak when comparing other teams.

Secondly, it becomes apparent that United's defence is pretty mean when comparing it to other leagues, the Sevilla team in particular is aging and would struggle to be compared to their United counterpart.

Thirdly, it's hilarious that Reyes is still playing.
 

Kostur

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Sevilla (Spanish)

---------------------Rico--------------

Coke – Rami – Kolodziejczak – Tremoulinas

---------------N’zonzi-------------------

Vitolo-------Iborra-----Krohn-Delhi----Konoplayanka-

------------Gameiro----------Llorente-------------

Subs: Soria, Banega, Krychowiak, Reyes, Mariano, Immobile, Kakuta


Does this not suggest to anyone right away the quality of the respective leagues?
Yup, shame on Sevilla, they play with 12 players.
 

kouroux

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Matches aren't played on paper. We saw many matches against teams United should have beaten on paper not ending up as wins in Europe.
 

Di Maria's angel

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Yeah, the league is incredible. Tottenham beat 16th place Swansea. 3rd place Arsenal get walloped by United U21s. 16th Place Swansea beat 3rd place Arsenal. Then 2nd place Spurs draw, whilst being outplayed, against a 10 man team that have been largely awful in 2016. Oh and we have City losing three games in a row. Whilst top of the place Leicester were in the Championship 2 years ago.

Like many have said before, in terms of entertainment, this league is number 1, hands down. I'd say in term of world wide entertainment, the PL is right up there. Quality wise, it's piss poor.
 

Cina

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Right I'll edit that and then @Cina if you can delete that post...
Last six EL winners

Atletico
Porto
Atletico
Chelsea
Sevilla
Sevilla

1 PL winner, 4 La Liga winners

Last six years of CL semi-finalists

Bayern
Lyon
Barca
Inter

Schalke
Man Utd
Real
Barca

Bayern
Real
Chelsea
Barca

Bayern
Dortmund
Barca
Real

Real
Atletico
Chelsea
Bayern

Barcelona
Bayern
Juve
Real

12 La Liga, 6 Bundesliga, 3 PL.
 

Wumminator

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Matches aren't played on paper. We saw many matches against teams United should have beaten on paper not ending up as wins in Europe.
Yes, but, it's the best way of judging a team as to me, a two game knockout doesn't take in to account many factors.
 

Cina

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Yes, but, it's the best way of judging a team as to me, a two game knockout doesn't take in to account many factors.
This is true, they certainly don't take into account how utterly deluded you are.
 

Wumminator

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Last six EL winners

Atletico
Porto
Atletico
Chelsea
Sevilla
Sevilla

1 PL winner, 4 La Liga winners

Last six years of CL semi-finalists

Bayern
Lyon
Barca
Inter

Schalke
Man Utd
Real
Barca

Bayern
Real
Chelsea
Barca

Bayern
Dortmund
Barca
Real

Real
Atletico
Chelsea
Bayern

Barcelona
Bayern
Juve
Real

12 La Liga, 6 Bundesliga, 3 PL.
My premise, which I will eventually get to, is the fact that

a) The Premier League has more teams
b) The Premier League has better teams
c) The premier league plays more matches

means that we suffer in Europe, as in England the Premier League is a bigger financial reward.
 

Cina

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Well it does, we'll play way more games than any La Liga and Bundesliga team this year probably.
I'm not a Mathematician but the PL has 20 teams and so does La Liga. I believe that means we don't actually have more games?
 

Kostur

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FSV Mainz (Germany)

---------------Lorius Karius --------------

Brosinski – Bell – Bungert – Bengstton

-------------------Baumgartlinger----------

---------------Latza-----Frei--------------

Clemens-------Malli—----------Samperio

-------------------Muto-------------------

Subs: De Blasis, Balogun, Neiderlechner, Cordoba, Moritz, Jara,
Actually I just noticed that they play with 12 players in Germany as well.

No wonder they keep winning in CL and EL, wankers.
 

Kasper

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I expect this thread to have:
- at least 3 users saying 'this stuff goes in circles'
- someone claiming that the competitivness of the PL is the reason why the teams struggle in Europe
- someone to expose the above as bullshit
- 2 users bringing up the missing winter break
- 5 users asking why the missing winter break didn't hinder the PL from 2005-2011
- a lot of angry Bundesliga fans
- a lot of laughing smileys directed at Twigginater
 

kps88

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By this logic, you'll have to compare Leicester to the top teams five years ago and ask if the quality has gone up.
 

Cina

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@Twigginater Barca played 60 games last season, Real 59, Atletico 56.

Chelsea were the closest PL team with 54.

At some point, having been so wrong on so many things throughout the years, you really just have to take a step back and think to yourself "am I clueless?" *

* the answer is yes.
 

kps88

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@Twigginater Barca played 60 games last season, Real 59, Atletico 56.

Chelsea were the closest PL team with 54.

At some point, having been so wrong on so many things throughout the years, you really just have to take a step back and think to yourself "am I clueless?" *

* the answer is yes.
:lol:
 

senorgregster

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@Twigginater Barca played 60 games last season, Real 59, Atletico 56.

Chelsea were the closest PL team with 54.

At some point, having been so wrong on so many things throughout the years, you really just have to take a step back and think to yourself "am I clueless?" *

* the answer is yes.
Right but what if you compare the 8th place in Germany to 6th in Spain and 11th in England? Quite eye opening!
 

Wumminator

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Elaborate.

:lol:
Manchester United this year will take place in four cup competitions.
@Twigginater Barca played 60 games last season, Real 59, Atletico 56.

Chelsea were the closest PL team with 54.

At some point, having been so wrong on so many things throughout the years, you really just have to take a step back and think to yourself "am I clueless?" *

* the answer is yes.
No-one in this thread (apart from you) is comparing the amount of games played by the top teams in the league, I'm looking at 5th placed teams.

It's funny, I thought when I made this thread, I'd get intelligent thoughtful responses. I have yet to see anyone debate the merits of these squads at all.

BTW Cina, daily reminder you closed a thread last year because I compared Van Gaal to Moyes and you thought it was ridiculous.
 

Cina

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Manchester United this year will take place in four cup competitions.


No-one in this thread (apart from you) is comparing the amount of games played by the top teams in the league, I'm looking at 5th placed teams.

It's funny, I thought when I made this thread, I'd get intelligent thoughtful responses. I have yet to see anyone debate the merits of these squads at all.

BTW Cina, daily reminder you closed a thread last year because I compared Van Gaal to Moyes and you thought it was ridiculous.
:lol:

c) The premier league plays more matches

means that we suffer in Europe,
Also, it was ridiculous.
 

11101

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The league as a spectacle is far stronger than the others and the level of competition each week is higher. That's at the expense of overall quality though as the top teams in the other major leagues can run away with their leagues and focus their attention on preparing for European competition. Just look at the goal differences year on year, which is a better indicator than points imo of how strong/weak competition is in a league. For example its a joke in Spain how much difference there is between some of the teams. Barcelona and Madrid frequently get into the 70s and 80s. That just couldn't happen now in the Premier League.
 

DrunkenBeaver

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I think the PL is strong. Too strong almost. You may be able to attribute the poor performances in Europe of our top sides down to the fact that for the most part the top clubs in Germany, Italy and Spain get relatively easy rides each weekend. Our top clubs don't often have than luxury, unless they're playing Aston fecking Villa.