Your numbers are wrong.
France has more winners than England in the last 10 years.
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
France has more winners than England in the last 10 years.
For France it's 4 not 2.
It was deliberately selective
Got to remember when comparing the leagues premier league bottom half teams have ridiculous budgets compared to La Liga and Serie A teams these days.
Just watched a Levante masterclass v Real Madrid. They are made up for couple of million euros signings and cast offs and loans from bigger clubs. Getafe similar.
Different to us or Sheffield united signing/wasting 20m on a player so I have far more respect for how on limited budgets teams in Spain can regularly get points off the top 3. Compare their efforts to everyone failing v Liverpool this season.
Just watched a Levante masterclass v Real Madrid. They are made up for couple of million euros signings and cast offs and loans from bigger clubs. Getafe similar.
Different to us or Sheffield united signing/wasting 20m on a player so I have far more respect for how on limited budgets teams in Spain can regularly get points off the top 3. Compare their efforts to everyone failing v Liverpool this season.
Isn’t it more like 5 winners in about 25 years in PL?
I think money translates in a weird way to bottom half PL teams. For one they end up paying €20m-€30m for random mediocre "PL proven" players, whereas exactly the same player from La Liga or Bundesliga would cost one of their teams a fraction.
Another factor might be mentality. What does it say about a player's mindset if he leaves a setup that's getting the best out of him and lets him compete in the EL/CL so he can fight relegation for West Ham with one or two million more on his paycheck? Would you rather have that guy or a player who wants to be the best player he can be and is willing to turn down a bit of money for that?
Yeah though clearly will be 6 soon enough.
What has changed though for the Premier League is that it has gone from 3 winners in 15 years to most likely 5 winners in 10. What was remarkable about last season was City were the first side to actually retain the League since United in 09.
Basically, you can't take any of this year's 1st leg CL meetings between PL and BL teams at face value. The circumstances are just not fair.
Kovacic said it all really:
Sarcasm aside, it's true though, the games were BL's 1st against PL's 4th, and BL's 2nd against PL's 6th. No way Liverpool or City would've failed to show up like Chelsea and Tottenham.
Kovacic said it all really:
Sarcasm aside, it's true though, the games were BL's 1st against PL's 4th, and BL's 2nd against PL's 6th. No way Liverpool or City would've failed to show up like Chelsea and Tottenham.
Absolute shambles this year. Worst quality I can remember in my lifetime.
The quality of the league has fallen massively.
It's as bad as I can remember. Everyone is either shit or in transition and not looking any good.
Of course it's bad when the Liverpool is your best team in Europe for few years. Last year was one off.
Solskjaer has the easiest opportunity he'll ever have in his managerial career to get top four. Outside of the top three the rest of the league has been dreadful.
Pretty much, I said it before as well that the Prem is becoming like the La Liga. The top 2 are much better than the rest in the league, but also still one of the best in Europe. I don't think any German side would be comfortable against Liverpool or City.
There is always some overreaction around CL results but I really don't rate the PL this season, it feels worse than the 2015/2016 season becauase I feel that the bottom half teams are tragically bad, it's not just underperforming top teams or the fabled competitiveness of the league.
You get it every five years really. This season is similar to 15/16 in a few ways with inexperienced/departing managers and 11s in transition. After that season English clubs did bounce back in europe.
Will happen at Man. City and Liverpool when their current managers depart aswell.
Bayern Munich are just much stronger than Chelsea really. Interested how Madrid-Man. City goes.
The gulf in quality was huge tonight. Positions 3-7 are as bad as they’ve been since the 1990s. Think there’s some decent quality in the middle of the table to be fair.
The PL has only got worse since the collapsing end to last season. The top one or two around Europe's leagues are not great but a cut above, it's more the PL hype of the recent years, fears of the PL running away with it, turning into a super league on it's own, fans of Spurs giving it the big one after being in the limelight for 5 mins. I could see it changing, it doesn't take much and there's no backup with the state of some clubs like United Chelsea and Arsenal.
We've seen Liverpool against Napoli this season
Weren't Atletico Madrid 5th when they played Liverpool....
Bayern (1st) is 6 points ahead of Leverkusen (5th), how many points are it in Liverpools case?
In fairness, the PL has been garbage this year - Liverpool running away with it without looking dominant/convincing, City look a shadow of the side that gathered 198 points last 2 seasons, Leicester are doing well to fill the vacuum but they've got no staying power, Chelsea started on fire but have begun to stutter, Spurs had to fire their manager and look horrible, we're in year 7 of a decade in transition, Arsenal had to fire their manager and going nowhere.
Depressing.
Depressing.
They were always going to be a tough team to beat, and for some bizarre reason, Napoli have our number (at least under Ancelotti they did).
PL and spanish La Liga are the strongest leagues in the world football. Germany, Italy and France are all 1 club leagues - there is only one club you could realistically hope to see in big finals from each of those.
I'd say PL is the strongest, La Liga is top-heavy, 2 top teams are consistantly dominant with Atletico consistantly doing well also, but other than that PL is the better league, especially as you go lower down the table, PL still has some good teams.
I'd say PL is the strongest, La Liga is top-heavy, 2 top teams are consistantly dominant with Atletico consistantly doing well also, but other than that PL is the better league, especially as you go lower down the table, PL still has some good teams.
I don't think that's true. Could be wrong but I'd expect the Europa League sides to go deep again and that certainly hasn't been the case since the 90s. Go back to the Europa League in 10-11 for example where 2 English sides reached the last 16 with City going out to Dynamo Kyiv and Liverpool going out to Braga. English sides also have more coefficient points at this stage than they did in the whole of the 15/16 & 16/17 seasons. The English league is still leading the coefficients up to this round this season also, you can't do that with only 2 good teams on a relative scale to the rest of Europe.
I think last season was naturally a high water mark for the league and the only way was down from there, which is skewing perceptions a bit.
It will be interesting to see what happens next season. I'd expect United and Chelsea to get stronger but I think Spurs are in a spot. If Sheff Utd and Leicester qualify for Europe I'd doubt they'd do well. Leicester have now experienced the correction xG predicted and have been playing like a mid-table side for the past 15 games or so. I think they'd be poor representatives in the CL. It's hard to know what will become of City at this point. My guess is that they'll settle and accept a one year ban which will weaken English representation in Europe next year.
Horribly boring league where over half the teams park the bus every game. Being exposed in the CL this year.
Also has awful refs and the worst usage of VAR in the world.
Also has awful refs and the worst usage of VAR in the world.
Rodgers in Europe is going to be an absolute car crash.
Who exactly is being exposed though. Chelsea and Spurs have been crap for a long time the results in the ucl were not a surprise to anyone.
Chelsea need two world-class players to uplift the team but just Sancho alone will cost £100-120m and I doubt they can spend 250m in one summer so will they do much better next season? I'm not sure.
Well the surprise is that these teams compete for top 4. If all the lower teams in the PL are that competetive, they really should not be there based on their awful performances.
That's what I was trying to get at with the midtable teams comment. The league looks strong around that area based on both the Europa League performances and the knock-on effect of years of monopolising TV revenues and drawing in talent from other leagues (making other leagues weaker as a result). But I do think there has been a shift in the depth of quality at the top end of the table which has been shunted down the table into those Europa League spots, leaving a gap in quality below the non - Pool/City CL spots. Liverpool may go on to win the Champions League again yet they clearly find the opposition there more testing than what they come up against domestically, based on the 2 defeats and 1 draw in 7 games, compared to winning 36 out of 37 in the league. It's unlikely they would have such an impeccable record in the league if the likes of United, Spurs and Arsenal weren't all having such crap seasons and could offer some sort of resistance in their head-to-head match-ups. Spurs have clearly dropped a few levels, have no attack to speak of, and their defensive record was a dismal 29th out of the 32 Champions League teams in the group stages. Basically the league has gone from 4 strong teams in the Champions League to 2.
Thats my point too about that it's no surprise to anyone that these teams got spanked and hence it wasn't that they were exposed on anything like that. The run in for the top 4 places last season and this season are proof of that. Arsenal and Manchester united are having their worst epl seasons point wise but they both still have a chance at top four. That just shows how horrible everyone is bar Liverpool and Man city.
Leipzig dominated Tottenham today
The manner in which the Bundesliga has struck back after being so underwhelming last season is impressive.
The manner in which the Bundesliga has struck back after being so underwhelming last season is impressive.
Yeah, Tottenham has been horrible all season and had key players out.
Same can be said about United, Arsenal, Chelsea or City. I don't think they are horrible but just not as good anymore/atm.
And about the keyplayers out:
1. That's a self made problem for not having a deep enough squad and Poch/Mou overplaying players. This is not bad luck. Management and coachers are almost as important as the players.
2. They don't have the injury crisis they are making it. Of course they miss Kane and Son big times. But the rest is just whining. I mean they bought Bergwjjin in january and they shouldn't count on a young player from the dutch league in his first two months.
Zero Premier League (or La Liga, for what it’s worth) teams in Champions League semifinals this season. Two French and two German sides.
Was wondering when this was going to get bumped.
Farmers league and Glorified Scottish league fans unite!!
Farmers league and Glorified Scottish league fans unite!!
Just bumping this thread with an interesting look. I originally got slated for saying some of the players in the United team were not good enough for the prem but would thrive elsewhere. Well Smalling and Young went to top quality European sides, Depay was wanted by Barce who couldn’t afford him and Blind, Darmian and Herrrera also moved “up” when they left the squad.