The top tier of greatest teams ever

[GuybrushThreepwood]

I've long thought that the Utd team from 2006-2009 was brilliant and pretty underrated in 'greatness' discussions.

During that period, the big 4 in the Premier League were also 4 of the best teams in Europe as highlighted by their CL results during those 3 seasons. So they literally beat 3 of the best teams in Europe to win those 3 consecutive league titles.

Their CL record was excellent with a semi-final in 2007, winning it in 2008 and then reaching another final in 2009. During that period they won 12 consecutive home matches in the competition and had a 25 match unbeaten run.

Plus they won a League Cup and were FA Cup finalists in 2007 and 2009.

In 2008/2009, they technically came closer to winning the quadruple than any other English team has ever done. Going into late April, they were top of the Premier League, had already won the League Cup, had a Champions League semi-final against Arsenal approaching, and were about to face Everton in the FA Cup semis. They had also won the Club World Cup earlier that season, so people were talking about a quintuple rather than a quadruple.

They were so tactically versatile, and could adapt their style to counter the opponents that they were facing, mixing things up between cavalier, attacking approaches and far more pragmatic ones (i.e. in their 2008 CL semi-final). They could handle the physical threat from Allardyce's Bolton or Pulis's Stoke, the counter-attacking threat from O'Neill's Villa, the technical threat from Wenger's Arsenal etc. In 2006/2007 they were very cavalier and played very attractive football from memory, and in 2008/2009 they didn't concede a single goal in 14 consecutive Premier League matches.

 

[Sandikan]

For me, the top tier of greatest national teams ever is formed by:

Hungary 1950-1954.
Brazil 1958-1962.
Brazil 1970.
Germany 1972-1974
Holland 1974.
Brazil 1982.
France 1998-2000.
Spain 2008-2012.

For me, the top tier of greatest club teams ever is formed by:

Real Madrid 1955-1960.
Santos 1960-1969.
Ajax 1970-1973.
Milan 1988-1990.
Barcelona 2008-2012.

Liverpool this year are surely at the top of any list.

Come on now...that was too easy

 

[MadDogg]

I begrudge that Barcelona team so much

If it wasn’t for them it would have been us. 3 CL finals in 4 years. We had one hell of a team, and to me our team then is one of the best football club sides of all time. History/others don’t much care for runner-ups though.

Yep. It sucks for us that our period of domination just so happened to coincide with quite probably the greatest club side of all time. We could even include the season before (06/07) where we were the best team in the world but got destroyed by injuries at the worst possible time when we had pretty much our entire defence out in the CL semi's.

 

[Peyroteo]

I don't think so. Nowadays few casual football fans know about the achievements of those Bayern, Ajax and Real Madrid squads which won a few in a row - at least if they aren't fans of the teams that won them. I mean, if you visit a random pub at match day and ask a random fan about Sacchi's Milan or Lattek's Bayern, how many people do you expect to give an at least somewhat profound answer? I mean, I have many friends who are really interested in modern football but I have my doubts if they even know who Sacchi was.

What sticks to mind primarily is the success of teams you are associated to in one way or another and then a very selective few which amazed people back in the day with Cruyff's Ajax and Dutch team being the most popular example. Barca and Spain belong in that category, Zidane's Madrid I think rather is in the Sacchi's Milan/Lattek's Bayern mould. People interested in football history will obviously remember them but that's probably it.

It's true that the casual fan won't care. The 4 years of MSN at Barca will probably be more glorified than that Madrid team that won 3 Champions League titles in those 4 years, it is what it is.

But achievements wise this Madrid team will get more recognition years from now because as the years pass it will become more and more evident that winning in Europe back to back is so much more difficult in this current format than it was in the old format when it used to happen all the time. I don't think winning 3 CLs in a row in this format can even be compared to doing the same in the 50s or 70s.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

It's true that the casual fan won't care. The 4 years of MSN at Barca will probably be more glorified than that Madrid team that won 3 Champions League titles in those 4 years, it is what it is.

But achievements wise this Madrid team will get more recognition years from now because as the years pass it will become more and more evident that winning in Europe back to back is so much more difficult in this current format than it was in the old format when it used to happen all the time. I don't think winning 3 CLs in a row in this format can even be compared to doing the same in the 50s or 70s.

The comparison with the old Euro cup format is true, but if talent and money continues to get concentrated within only a small group of clubs we might be looking back on this as the start of a new era compared to 90s-00s where winning it back to back isn't as difficult for the biggest clubs and becomes something that happens once or twice a decade.

 

[Gio]

It's true that the casual fan won't care. The 4 years of MSN at Barca will probably be more glorified than that Madrid team that won 3 Champions League titles in those 4 years, it is what it is.

But achievements wise this Madrid team will get more recognition years from now because as the years pass it will become more and more evident that winning in Europe back to back is so much more difficult in this current format than it was in the old format when it used to happen all the time. I don't think winning 3 CLs in a row in this format can even be compared to doing the same in the 50s or 70s.

And had the old format still been in place you wouldn't have qualified for any of those 3 consecutive wins in the first place. The European Cup was harder to qualify for and easier to win. The Champions League is easier to qualify for and harder to win.

But I agree with @Demyanenko_square_jaw that ever-strengthening superclubs will likely repeat the feat sooner rather than later.

 

[matbezlima]

Personally, I never liked tika taka football as I found it boring and I am happy that football seems to gradually be moving away from it again.

As for that Arsenal tie, you are forgetting about the absolutely ridiculous red card for RVP in the second leg who got a second yellow for kicking the ball away when he just went to have a shot because he didn't hear the whistle.

I did not forget about that red card. I'm just pointing out the moments in which Barcelona was victim too. Barcelona totally deserved going through, their superiority against Arsenal was ridiculous and Arsenal did not shoot once. Guardiola's Barcelona was clearly from another planet, I have not seen football of that technical level before or since. Watch the 5-0 against Real Madrid, best football ever technically.

 

[matbezlima]

I don't think so. Nowadays few casual football fans know about the achievements of those Bayern, Ajax and Real Madrid squads which won a few in a row - at least if they aren't fans of the teams that won them. I mean, if you visit a random pub at match day and ask a random fan about Sacchi's Milan or Lattek's Bayern, how many people do you expect to give an at least somewhat profound answer? I mean, I have many friends who are really interested in modern football but I have my doubts if they even know who Sacchi was.

What sticks to mind primarily is the success of teams you are associated to in one way or another and then a very selective few which amazed people back in the day with Cruyff's Ajax and Dutch team being the most popular example. Barca and Spain belong in that category, Zidane's Madrid I think rather is in the Sacchi's Milan/Lattek's Bayern mould. People interested in football history will obviously remember them but that's probably it.

Sacchi's Milan is seen in a similar vein to Pep's Barcelona, they helped revolutionize football and played awesome offensive football and had some iconic thundering victories that sealed their place in history alongside Cruyff's Ajax, such as the 5-0 victory against Real Madrid.

 

[Brightonian]

Why isn't the Liverpool side of the 80's getting a mention here?

Hmm, not sure... *looks around*

 

[Zehner]

Sacchi's Milan is seen in a similar vein to Pep's Barcelona, they helped revolutionize football and played awesome offensive football and had some iconic thundering victories that sealed their place in history alongside Cruyff's Ajax, such as the 5-0 victory against Real Madrid.

I wasn't trying to belittle Sacchi's Milan. I'm just arguing that casual fans don't really care about such stuff. It's a very small minority which is interested in teams and coaches like that. There are very few teams which are still so universally popular that there's something like mainstream recognition. The only one I can think of is probably the Dutch team 74 with it's total football brand.

 

[Peyroteo]

And had the old format still been in place you wouldn't have qualified for any of those 3 consecutive wins in the first place. The European Cup was harder to qualify for and easier to win. The Champions League is easier to qualify for and harder to win.

But winning the European Cup gave them qualification for the following seasons... Clubs only needed to qualify for it once through the league and then to win it back to back to back they didn't have to do well in the league in that time. You can argue if it was easier to win one European Cup back then or now, that's a good argument to have... but it was undoubtedly easier to do it back to back with the old format as it only took one qualification through the league to get it started.

But I agree with @Demyanenko_square_jaw that ever-strengthening superclubs will likely repeat the feat sooner rather than later.

I disagree with that. Ever-strengthening superclubs are strengthening together and there are plenty of them, with 7 superclubs instead of 1 the way I see it, it should be harder to win it back to back, not easier. And the Champions League isn't about being the better team anyways most of the time, Pep's Barca are probably the best team ever objectively speaking and they didn't get to back to back finals, City have been the definition of a super squad for years and they haven't played one semifinal, Liverpool were hugely favoured this season and they won't even play the quarters... I think it's highly unlikely that you'll see any team win it 3 consecutive times during your lifetime ever again as long as the format remains the same.

Give it another decade of noone winning it back to back and their achievements will look better and better, that's for sure.

 

[Dave Smith]

I did not forget about that red card. I'm just pointing out the moments in which Barcelona was victim too. Barcelona totally deserved going through, their superiority against Arsenal was ridiculous and Arsenal did not shoot once. Guardiola's Barcelona was clearly from another planet, I have not seen football of that technical level before or since. Watch the 5-0 against Real Madrid, best football ever technically.

They were a great side, but at the same time their trophy haul, particularly in the CL, has been padded out by some outrageous refereeing. 2009 they should never have made the final and, without the red card for RVP, Arsenal win that game as they actually defended really well that night.

For me yes, passing wise they were a great side, arguably the greatest. However, the problem with that style of play is that it is pretty easily defended against and suspect to the counter. People can argue about aesthetics but for me, defending is just as important as attacking and the greatest sides should be more balanced.

 

[MrEleson]

Surprised Real Madrid's teams of the '10s barely get a mention. Probably the most consistent team in the CL by far since its inception in '92 and probably since the days when the competition was dominated by the same club in the 50's.

Just taking a look at their record:

2010: R016
2011: Semi-finals (eliminated by Pep's Barca)
2012: Semi-finals (eliminated on penalties to Bayern in a game they probably should have won)
2013: Semi-finals (eliminated 4-3 on aggregate & probably should have gone through based on the chances missed in reverse leg).
2014: Champions
2015: Semi-finals (eliminated 3-2 on aggregate to Juve with injury ravaged side that had to play Ramos in midfield).
2016: Champions
2017: Champions
2018: Champions
2019: R016

Europe's premier competition was almost their playground for more than 80% of the decade.

 

[matbezlima]

They were a great side, but at the same time their trophy haul, particularly in the CL, has been padded out by some outrageous refereeing. 2009 they should never have made the final and, without the red card for RVP, Arsenal win that game as they actually defended really well that night.

For me yes, passing wise they were a great side, arguably the greatest. However, the problem with that style of play is that it is pretty easily defended against and suspect to the counter. People can argue about aesthetics but for me, defending is just as important as attacking and the greatest sides should be more balanced.

Arsenal's goal was an own goal. Arsenal never threatened Barcelona in the whole game besides the Bendtner chance. And Guardiola never neglected defense. That team worked really hard to get the ball back whenever they lost it and their technical refinement and precision passing in the tightest spaces was ridiculous. In their best days, such as the 5-0 against Real Madrid, they were truly unplayable. Almost no one could stop them. Effectively no one if they were inspired. I haven't seen a team scare the opponents even before the matches began like that.

 

[matbezlima]

I

Surprised Real Madrid's teams of the '10s barely get a mention. Probably the most consistent team in the CL by far since its inception in '92 and probably since the days when the competition was dominated by the same club in the 50's.

Just taking a look at their record:

2010: R016
2011: Semi-finals (eliminated by Pep's Barca)
2012: Semi-finals (eliminated on penalties to Bayern in a game they probably should have won)
2013: Semi-finals (eliminated 4-3 on aggregate & probably should have gone through based on the chances missed in reverse leg).
2014: Champions
2015: Semi-finals (eliminated 3-2 on aggregate to Juve with injury ravaged side that had to play Ramos in midfield).
2016: Champions
2017: Champions
2018: Champions
2019: R016

Europe's premier competition was almost their playground for more than 80% of the decade.

In 2013, they lost 4-1 to Borussia Dortmund in the first leg, a great Borussia team commanded by Klopp. Bayern in 2012 was great too. But I get your point. But those Real teams were not the same as Ancelloti's or Zidane's. Madrid as a club lacked some luck in the first half of the decade and then had lots of luck in 2016 and 2018.

 

[matbezlima]

I wasn't trying to belittle Sacchi's Milan. I'm just arguing that casual fans don't really care about such stuff. It's a very small minority which is interested in teams and coaches like that. There are very few teams which are still so universally popular that there's something like mainstream recognition. The only one I can think of is probably the Dutch team 74 with it's total football brand.

Brazil 1970 is a mythical side, probably the most celebrated national team ever.

 

[James Peril]

The 1950’s were obviously the time when football was at its best I see? Like five years after the war when the world was in turmoil and when players smoked during half-time. It’s like entering a discussion between Apple and Samsung-users of course, but it’s difficult to accept teams from the 50’s being better than let’s say Barcelona at their best. The teams you mention were most likely awesome, but football wasn’t very professional back then so why bother. Even football in the 70’s looks absolutely ridiculous in terms of defending and tactical setups. Go to 86 (Maradona’s goal) and see how the defenders look like they are actively trying to showcase how to do things badly in a training exercise. I know, different times and you could only play what’s in front of you, but it’s still not remotely comparable.

I am Real Madrid over Barcelona, but that team was the best I’ve ever seen - maybe the best we’ll ever see - now that physical development and training has peaked relatively close to how far a human body can go. The central line and tactical awareness over the years with Puyol, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi... I’m looking forward to the next team being close, it will be fun.

 

[Dave Smith]

Arsenal's goal was an own goal. Arsenal never threatened Barcelona in the whole game besides the Bendtner chance. And Guardiola never neglected defense. That team worked really hard to get the ball back whenever they lost it and their technical refinement and precision passing in the tightest spaces was ridiculous. In their best days, such as the 5-0 against Real Madrid, they were truly unplayable. Almost no one could stop them. Effectively no one if they were inspired. I haven't seen a team scare the opponents even before the matches began like that.

I am not saying Arsenal were the better team but rather a team that was playing the correct strategy and were implementing it. It is kind of like how Chelsea always gave Barca problems, as they knew how to play against them but without always being the better team.

Obviously, if any team of that era and tried to play Barca at their own game, they were doomed. Further, if they were not great at defending, they were also in trouble. However, teams that could defend and counter did well/held their own.

I am not saying that Barca were not a very good team, they were. My problem with them is they had some incredible fortune in a number of games were teams were playing well against them. If I am being entirely honest, if it was not for the referring decisions, I would be happy to list them as great, it is just that due to that being so sustained, it tarnishes what they achieved a little, in my opinion.

 

[matbezlima]

I am not saying Arsenal were the better team but rather a team that was playing the correct strategy and were implementing it. It is kind of like how Chelsea always gave Barca problems, as they knew how to play against them but without always being the better team.

Obviously, if any team of that era and tried to play Barca at their own game, they were doomed. Further, if they were not great at defending, they were also in trouble. However, teams that could defend and counter did well/held their own.

I am not saying that Barca were not a very good team, they were. My problem with them is they had some incredible fortune in a number of games were teams were playing well against them. If I am being entirely honest, if it was not for the referring decisions, I would be happy to list them as great, it is just that due to that being so sustained, it tarnishes what they achieved a little, in my opinion.

I'm not really sure that Barcelona had more luck than any other fantastic side in history. If you dig deep down enough, you will find at least some controversy in at least a few crucial matches with all of them, but nowadays the media scrutiny is much higher.

 

[Ed9]

What about us 1999?

 

[matbezlima]

That Bayern team had incredible tactical versatility. I think that they had the second best possession and pass completion stats in Europe after Barcelona that season. They had the ability to press high up the pitch, or sit deeper and spring rapid counter-backs. It was like they had an ideal combination of skill, speed and strength.

Of the 5 trebles that I've seen, Bayern's in 2013 was definitely the most dominant.

Utd's in 1998/1999 was of course the most exciting and dramatic across all 3 competitions, with the thrilling title race including coming from a goal down to beat Tottenham on the final day, FA Cup drama against Liverpool and Arsenal, CL drama against Juventus and Bayern etc, but that's not to downplay the tremendous quality of course.

Barca in 2008/2009 had the controversy at Stamford Bridge in their CL semi-final, and 'wobbled' slightly when they had opportunity to secure the La Liga title themselves at the Camp Nou, failing to hold on to a 3-1 lead at home to Villarreal. The champagne was put on ice although a week later they were champions after Real Madrid lost away to Valencia.

In 2009/2010 Inter from memory had a 13 point lead over Roma in Serie A just past the halfway stage, before Roma pegged them back and moved 1 point ahead with 4 games left, but lost at home Sampdoria, allowing Inter to regain the lead and seal the title on the final day of the season.

Barca in 2014/2015 looked to be in crisis around the turn of the year, especially after that defeat to Moyes's Real Sociedad, with Enrique and Messi reportedly feuding, Enrique constantly chopping and changing tactics and close to getting sacked, before he settled on a fixed starting line-up with Messi on the right and Suarez in the centre, and that front 3 became unplayable during the 2nd half of the season.

In 2012/2013 Bayern were just a ruthless, unstoppable, all conquering juggernaut. Yes that they had that scare against Arsenal in their CL last 16 tie, and they were clearly complacent going into the 2nd leg, but I did think they were the clearly the better team over the 2 legs and so weren't lucky to go through.

Fantastic comment. I agree. At least in modern football, I don't think that a team was as consistently unstoppable and destroying the adversaries in the course of a season as Bayern in 2012/2013. Pep's Barcelona was technically superior, but their thin squad combined with Guardiola rotating the team very little always meant that their level of performance dropped significantly in the second half of the season, specially in February. Look at Barcelona during the season 2010-2011, when they reached their best football, the 5-0 against Real Madrid being the greatest team performance I ever saw, the technical pinnacle of this sport. They were wonderful in almost all their games from late October to January. But their performances in La Liga afterwards, starting in February, were lukewarm and not very convincing for the rest of the season. Injuries plagued the team, Busquets had to be fielded as a defender (in the second leg against Arsenal, Barcelona's pair of centre-backs were Abidal and Busquets). Puyol injured, Xavi tired, Abidal with cancer, Pedro and Villa's significant drop of form. Barcelona's season was threatening to blow up with physical and mental exhaustion, specially in the series of 4 Clásicos against Real Madrid. With exception of the last game, the matches were terrible with low technical level and very nervous. The Copa Del Rey final's Barcelona performance in the first half was unbelievably poor, their huge passing quality nowhere to be seen. The first leg in UCL was the worst game of all. The end of the series was a huge relief and Barcelona's players were well rested and relaxed when the final against United came, returning to their absolute best level in that UCL final. They even said that overcoming Real Madrid was really their big obstacle in the season, not United.

 

[matbezlima]

After Bayern 2012-2013, I think that Barcelona 2008-2009 and Barcelona 2014-2015 were the best trebles. Amazing teams even though Barcelona 2014-2015 only really clicked together with their 3-1 victory over Atletico in 11 January 2015. From that game onwards, they were consistently amazing and a blast to watch in the rest of the season, truly more than worthy of the treble. The best team in the world in 2015 and one of the best teams of last decade, no doubt, with the best attacking trio. MSN was the greatest chemistry and magic that I ever saw in an attacking trio.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Regarding the 2012 CL semi-final between Bayern and Real Madrid, from memory I did think that Bayern were the better team over the 2 legs, not emphatically better with complete domination or anything, but still noticeably better, and they had plenty of chances at the Bernabeu to score another away goal and prevent the penalty shoot-out. They also could / should have won the 1st leg in Munich by a bigger margin, with Mourinho happy to settle for a draw before Gomez's late winner (Gomez had missed some clear chances before then as well). I guess the difference between Real Madrid under Mourinho and under Ancelotti / Zidane, is that under those last 2 managers they were more positive in big away games and better able to win them.

Of course Real Madrid played and won a huge Clasico at the Camp Nou in-between those 2 semi-final matches to effectively seal the La Liga title, while Bayern went into those semi-final matches effectively out of the Bundesliga title race as they were well behind Dortmund.

 

[adexkola]

I wasn't trying to belittle Sacchi's Milan. I'm just arguing that casual fans don't really care about such stuff. It's a very small minority which is interested in teams and coaches like that. There are very few teams which are still so universally popular that there's something like mainstream recognition. The only one I can think of is probably the Dutch team 74 with it's total football brand.

Casual fans are stupid and shouldn't be given any mention in serious threads like this

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

One of the standouts of Guardiola's time as Barcelona, was their record at the Bernabeu with 5 wins, 2 draws and 0 defeats. One of those draws, in La Liga in 2010-2011 effectively sealed the title for them as well, so that was as good as a victory, and the other draw came in the 2011/2012 Supercopa to give them the advantage going into the 2nd leg. So every match for Guardiola's Barca at the Bernabeu was a success.

I know they had 2 memorable wins at the Bernabeu under Rijkaard including the Ronaldinho masterclass / standing ovation in 2005/2006, although they still lost more Clasicos that they won at the Bernabeu during his 5 years in charge (3 defeats and 2 wins), alongside also having a negative record in Clasicos at the Camp Nou during that period (2 defeats, 2 draws and 1 win).

 

[Harry190]

What about us 1999?

Top 3. Pound-for-pound, only Milan would be 50-50.

 

[Ed9]

Top 3. Pound-for-pound, only Milan would be 50-50.

Agreed

 

[matbezlima]

I am not saying Arsenal were the better team but rather a team that was playing the correct strategy and were implementing it. It is kind of like how Chelsea always gave Barca problems, as they knew how to play against them but without always being the better team.

Obviously, if any team of that era and tried to play Barca at their own game, they were doomed. Further, if they were not great at defending, they were also in trouble. However, teams that could defend and counter did well/held their own.

I am not saying that Barca were not a very good team, they were. My problem with them is they had some incredible fortune in a number of games were teams were playing well against them. If I am being entirely honest, if it was not for the referring decisions, I would be happy to list them as great, it is just that due to that being so sustained, it tarnishes what they achieved a little, in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure that Barcelona would still win the tie even if Van Persie was not sent off. Arsenal was never offering any threat in attack and Barcelona's finishing was tremendously wasteful. Besides, Barcelona had a goal wrongly ruled out in the first leg with non-existent offside, potentially a penalty not given in the second leg and Koscielny could have been sent off. Van Persie's sending off was the least consequential possible considering how the match was going. Barcelona fully deserved to go through, it would be totally freakish for Arsenal to go through, unfair. Arsenal fans should stop their unfounded complaints, accept how inferior you were. And that Barcelona was above great, it was a fantastic and once-in-a-lifetime team.

 

[Peyroteo]

Regarding the 2012 CL semi-final between Bayern and Real Madrid, from memory I did think that Bayern were the better team over the 2 legs, not emphatically better with complete domination or anything, but still noticeably better, and they had plenty of chances at the Bernabeu to score another away goal and prevent the penalty shoot-out. They also could / should have won the 1st leg in Munich by a bigger margin, with Mourinho happy to settle for a draw before Gomez's late winner (Gomez had missed some clear chances before then as well). I guess the difference between Real Madrid under Mourinho and under Ancelotti / Zidane, is that under those last 2 managers they were more positive in big away games and better able to win them.

Of course Real Madrid played and won a huge Clasico at the Camp Nou in-between those 2 semi-final matches to effectively seal the La Liga title, while Bayern went into those semi-final matches effectively out of the Bundesliga title race as they were well behind Dortmund.

Mourinho fecked that one up, they went conservative in the first leg at 1-1 and conceded. Did the same in the second leg at 2-0 up and conceded again then with a draw he was way too scared of the away goal and they didn't go for it like they would have if Zidane or Ancelotti were coaching. Madrid were the best team in the world in 2011/12, they were better than Bayern but Heynckes outclassed Mou. Just like Klopp did the same the following season.

Between 2012 and 2018 they could have easily been to 7 straight CL finals. The margins that they lost by were very small everytime.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Mourinho fecked that one up, they went conservative in the first leg at 1-1 and conceded. Did the same in the second leg at 2-0 up and conceded again then with a draw he was way too scared of the away goal and they didn't go for it like they would have if Zidane or Ancelotti were coaching. Madrid were the best team in the world in 2011/12, they were better than Bayern but Heynckes outclassed Mou. Just like Klopp did the same the following season.

Between 2012 and 2018 they could have easily been to 7 straight CL finals. The margins that they lost by were very small everytime.

Yes since winning the competition with Inter in 2010, Mourinho has often paid for being overly cautious in the competition. His tactics in the home leg against Barcelona in 2011 were nothing short of cowardly (Ronaldo publicly criticised them), against Bayern in 2012, in 2018 when his Man Utd team barely showed any attacking intent away to Sevilla in the 1st leg away etc.

Yes I agree that Real Madrid were clearly the best team in the world overall in 2011/2012. In La Liga they won all of their big away matches on paper, against Barcelona, Valencia, Malaga, Atletico Madrid, Athletic Bilbao, Sevilla etc. I think that they had a better and more balanced squad than Barcelona that season, who had become overly reliant on Messi for goals (while Benzema and Higuain scored 58 goals between them alongside Ronaldo's 60 and looked weakly defensively with Puyol ageing and Pique's form declining and him falling out with Guardiola etc.

Still Bayern were the better team and were more dangerous for at least 75% of the 2 legs in 2011/2012. Looking at the 2nd leg on its own, Bayern were very unlucky to lose at the Bernabeu and not finish off the tie earlier. I think Bayern were probably far more unlucky to lose to Real in the 2017/2018 semis with the chances that they missed, than Real were to lose to Bayern in the 2011/2012 semis.

 

[King7Eric]

I've long thought that the Utd team from 2006-2009 was brilliant and pretty underrated in 'greatness' discussions.

During that period, the big 4 in the Premier League were also 4 of the best teams in Europe as highlighted by their CL results during those 3 seasons. So they literally beat 3 of the best teams in Europe to win those 3 consecutive league titles.

Their CL record was excellent with a semi-final in 2007, winning it in 2008 and then reaching another final in 2009. During that period they won 12 consecutive home matches in the competition and had a 25 match unbeaten run.

Plus they won a League Cup and were FA Cup finalists in 2007 and 2009.

In 2008/2009, they technically came closer to winning the quadruple than any other English team has ever done. Going into late April, they were top of the Premier League, had already won the League Cup, had a Champions League semi-final against Arsenal approaching, and were about to face Everton in the FA Cup semis. They had also won the Club World Cup earlier that season, so people were talking about a quintuple rather than a quadruple.

They were so tactically versatile, and could adapt their style to counter the opponents that they were facing, mixing things up between cavalier, attacking approaches and far more pragmatic ones (i.e. in their 2008 CL semi-final). They could handle the physical threat from Allardyce's Bolton or Pulis's Stoke, the counter-attacking threat from O'Neill's Villa, the technical threat from Wenger's Arsenal etc. In 2006/2007 they were very cavalier and played very attractive football from memory, and in 2008/2009 they didn't concede a single goal in 14 consecutive Premier League matches.

This. That team is so criminally underrated even by some Utd fans who salivate over Pep's Barca. People tend to forget Barca should never have made it to the CL final in 09. It was a refereeing heist that allowed them to reach the final and we were missing Hargreaves and Fletcher, 2 players that might have made all the difference against that Barca midfield.

 

[TheReligion]

Why isn't the Liverpool side of the 80's getting a mention here?

The one that benefitted greatly from boring football and the back pass rule? Yeah not so great..

 

[Bondi77]

The Liverpool side 77-78 and even through to the early 80s was the best club side in Europe so they are surely in that group
The England side of 66 deserves a mention as well and would have made the final in 70 but just made bad decisions.

 

[Champagne Football]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but had we signed Viera instead of Veron in 2001, or Essien in 2005 like we came within a whisker of doing, then they may well have been the difference between winning 2 or 3 Champions leagues in a row. Fergie had some really phenomenal teams, that were perhaps 1 extra truly world class central midfielder away from being invincible in Europe.

I didn't mention Shearer because we had Andy Cole around that time and he was awesome. And I didn't mention Ronaldinho as he was always going to Barca as soon as they made a decent offer.

 

[harms]

Why isn't the Liverpool side of the 80's getting a mention here?

The Liverpool side 77-78 and even through to the early 80s was the best club side in Europe so they are surely in that group
The England side of 66 deserves a mention as well and would have made the final in 70 but just made bad decisions.

It’s probably the weakest individual period in TV-footage era football — at least in Europe (just look at the ease with which Zico’s Flamengo had dismantled Liverpool in the 1981 Intercontinental Cup). It’s also an era, when Keegan had won 2 Ballon d’Ors — he was a great player and he probably is underrated by today’s fans, but there’s no way he’s on par with other multiple Ballon d’Or winners (he’s probably among the weakest recipients of that award ever, with only Belanov clearly belonging to a lower tier than him).

Credit where it’s due — Liverpool were great at getting a needed result against better teams (Mönchengladbach, Munich & Roma in particular), but I wouldn’t put them among the greatest. The same way Simeone’s Atletico isn’t the greatest team of its era, but it’s highly likely that a lot of team fear them the most in CL’s play-offs. Just that Liverpool was slightly better and much luckier.

 

[matbezlima]

This. That team is so criminally underrated even by some Utd fans who salivate over Pep's Barca. People tend to forget Barca should never have made it to the CL final in 09. It was a refereeing heist that allowed them to reach the final and we were missing Hargreaves and Fletcher, 2 players that might have made all the difference against that Barca midfield.

Barcelona was missing Daniel Alves and Abidal. Puyol and Sylvinho had to be the full-backs

 

[Gio]

Credit where it’s due — Liverpool were great at getting a needed result against better teams (Mönchengladbach, Munich & Roma in particular), but I wouldn’t put them among the greatest. The same way Simeone’s Atletico isn’t the greatest team of its era, but it’s highly likely that a lot of team fear them the most in CL’s play-offs. Just that Liverpool was slightly better and much luckier.

Luck can be a factor in a one-off cup run, but it’s pretty irrelevant in multiple wins in the same era. Liverpool were not lucky cup specialists, they fully dominated the English game by winning 7 league titles in 9 years. And it was clearly a strong league given the competition of Nottingham Forest and the simple fact that English sides won the European Cup six years in a row. Ultimately Liverpool were unquestionably the best team of their era because they consistently beat these 'better teams' and have the domestic and continental trophy haul to back it up.

 

[Son]

I begrudge that Barcelona team so much

If it wasn’t for them it would have been us. 3 CL finals in 4 years. We had one hell of a team, and to me our team then is one of the best football club sides of all time. History/others don’t much care for runner-ups though.

Same. We never will get our praise from that side from the media. English fans often rank the invincible’s over our 3 title winning side for example.

We didn’t play the most attractive football but we were as solid as almost any side ever when you look at our defence back then. Not many beat it.

We had to play arguably the two hardest final games ever in Champions League history. I’d have taken facing any other side before them looking back.

 

[Infordin]

Barcelona was missing Daniel Alves and Abidal. Puyol and Sylvinho had to be the full-backs

And Yaya Toure was our centerback

To this day, I never understood why Pep didn't just play Yaya at right back and keep our trusty Pique-Puyol CB duo together.

Perhaps he thought that Yaya didn't have the workrate to play as right back?

Either way, we won the final so I'm not complaining.

 

[King7Eric]

Barcelona was missing Daniel Alves and Abidal. Puyol and Sylvinho had to be the full-backs

To any team in the world, CMs are more important than FBs. Also, playing Puyol there actually helped Barca as he nullified Rooney to a large extent. Playing a rampaging Alves there would have left plenty of space for Rooney to get in behind.

But anyway this is all hypothetical now. Essentially, Barca should never have been playing that final.