The treatment on here of Marcus Rashford

roonster09

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https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-playing-through-injury-again.461286/page-7#post-26964892

Said the same as I did here re: playing injured vs playing hurt. Cute of you to memorise my posts though. ;)
No need to memorise, few tinfoil hat stuff posts always stand out.

At least if he chooses to go and play against San Marino, Albania et al. all this 'playing injured' stuff goes out the window.

He might be playing hurt, I imagine half the team are at this point in the season, but if he goes away on England duty he's certainly not playing with an injury. There's a big, big difference.
So what is it now, playing with an injury or playing hurt?
 

RedDevilCanuck

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I too have been critical. But he hasn't seemed right for over a year. His work rate and movement amd body language is off.

He clearly not fit and I hope this doesn't bite us in the ass or take years off of Rashford's career.
 
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The issue is we have no one anywhere near as effective as he is (looking at you especially Martial) so we can't afford to rest him as long as he can manage his injury and not aggravate it.
I definitely agree with that. He also had that 3-4 month period a couple of years ago where he looked like he was becoming a genuine world class player.

My issue isn't one of thinking he lacks talent or potential.
 

Doracle

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Cavani - 2/3 out of ten for the vast majority of the game. 3/10 for the whole game.

Bruno - 3/10 for the first half, ended with a 7/10.

Greenwood - 6/10 for the game

Rashford - 3/4 out of ten until the goal, ended with a 6/10

No one is claiming Rashford was 3/10 for the game. I certainly wasn’t. He was 3/4 out of ten until the goal. I feel the goal puts him to 5/6 out of ten, closer to 6.
“He finished a one touch goal, a good finish, no doubt. He has been abysmal otherwise. You can’t see this?”

So you felt Cavani and Bruno were just as bad (I disagree - they were quite considerably worse) but chose to post the above about Rashford, and various other negative comments about how bad he was, whilst making no comment on their performances. So far as I can see from a quick skim, every single post you made on the match thread was about how awful Rashford was and the above was the best you could do even after he’d scored an excellent goal. This is precisely why this type of thread exists.
 

Red_toad

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Carry’s the blame of us not having an effective lead striker and no proper right sided attacker. Lads a genuine star and great all round guy, some of our fans really need to look at themselves, plenty of clubs would love to take their perceived problem with our team away.
 

city-puma

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His body language and movement clearly indicated his physical condition has not been good at all. It seems not only his shoulder but also his foot, ankle likely have some issues.
he didn’t press effectively but he is not short of effort on it at all. He tried almost everything to help break the well organized defense system of the opponent, dribbling to the box, long shot, cross, link up play, run to the space, tidy one-two around the box, ...
The real issue is that Cavani has mediocre first touch. Our front players basically can’t penetrate through, thus, all were shifted to both sides always. If Greenwood could played central earlier, we probably could produce more situations. But we have a striker crisis, we don’t have much options really.
 

The Hilton

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So in order to complain about hyperbole used to describe Marcus Rashford in a negative light, you create a thread full of hyperbole used to describe him in a positive light? How ironic.

Performances unrivalled by anyone in our squad? Most dangerous attacking player? I can only assume you're unaware that we signed Bruno Fernandes.

Unfortunately football fans tend to get stuck at extremes, and in fairness it can be quite difficult to be rational when you're so emotionally attached to the club. The reality is though that Marcus has a great deal of talent, and he has the ability to make important contributions when not playing well, which is the mark of a great player. However, there's still work to do on his game, and he's also clearly knackered from being played too much. He'd benefit greatly from another talented forward he could rotate with.
 

simplyared

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The thread is very weird — are people suppose to praise every performance of a player based on his stature at the club, personal achievements etc.? The comments that you've quoted are hardly harsh — he had a very poor game that was somehow compensated by the goal, and he also have been quite poor in terms of the actual workrate on the pitch for quite a while (although it looks like it's more of a fitness issue rather than something to do with his attitude).

The legend comment and the comparison to George Best are, well, laughable at best.

On the other hand, if someone is seriously considering getting rid of him (which I haven't really seen on here, at least not en masse), they have a very weird understanding of today's market, our club's needs and Rashford's level (current & potential). He's not world class yet (although he was close to reaching it before he got injured last season) and he could certainly perform better than he does now, but he's certainly one of our most important and valuable assets and someone to build a team around alongside Bruno and, hopefully, Greenwood.
I'd put money on if Cavani had got that goal yesterday people would have forgotten his abysmal performance and heaped praise on him. Yesterday Rashford was a threat to their defense every time he had the ball at his feet. Ask yourself why are there so many defenders around him. Because every single manager in the PL knows they must deal with Rashford and stop him. If you look back on that game and say he was poor then you either have an agenda towards the player or you don't understand player contribution.

I wouldn't even attempt to compare Rashford to Best. What I'm saying is Rashford like other players who know they have quality and believe in themselves put themselves on the line and they want to make things happen. If players like Best were criticized for taking on 1 player to many and losing possession they would not develop. Rashford is not George Best and never will be. He's just a player who knows his qualities and wants to utilize them to the maximum to win games for Man Utd.

Re the legend comment: Could be perceived as over the top but I believe he's very close already. Nothing to do with his off-pitch projects but purely based on his contribution to the club on the field and the way he goes about it.
 

city-puma

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I'd put money on if Cavani had got that goal yesterday people would have forgotten his abysmal performance and heaped praise on him. Yesterday Rashford was a threat to their defense every time he had the ball at his feet. Ask yourself why are there so many defenders around him. Because every single manager in the PL knows they must deal with Rashford and stop him. If you look back on that game and say he was poor then you either have an agenda towards the player or you don't understand player contribution.

I wouldn't even attempt to compare Rashford to Best. What I'm saying is Rashford like other players who know they have quality and believe in themselves put themselves on the line and they want to make things happen. If players like Best were criticized for taking on 1 player to many and losing possession they would not develop. Rashford is not George Best and never will be. He's just a player who knows his qualities and wants to utilize them to the maximum to win games for Man Utd.

Re the legend comment: Could be perceived as over the top but I believe he's very close already. Nothing to do with his off-pitch projects but purely based on his contribution to the club, attitude you name it.
Exactly!
I remember when in one attempt he took on three and dribbled into the box, it was a hilarious chaotic situation to watch. Their three or four players rushed to close him down by enclosing him within a body square. And the ball pinball around and somehow ended up at the feet of Bruno who was smart to get into that huge space suddenly appearing. Bruno gave the ball to right where Pogba wrong footed under challenge. In another attempt, he got a corner.
apparently, some just don’t value these kind of efforts to break down the tight defense block. These individual moments accumulated in a game and eventually made a breakthrough.
 

calodo2003

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“He finished a one touch goal, a good finish, no doubt. He has been abysmal otherwise. You can’t see this?”

So you felt Cavani and Bruno were just as bad (I disagree - they were quite considerably worse) but chose to post the above about Rashford, and various other negative comments about how bad he was, whilst making no comment on their performances. So far as I can see from a quick skim, every single post you made on the match thread was about how awful Rashford was and the above was the best you could do even after he’d scored an excellent goal. This is precisely why this type of thread exists.
Yep, Cavani, Rashford, & Bruno all had very similar first halves, almost indistinguishable from one another. Their play in the second half separated it in the second half.

Rashford was abysmal in my opinion even after the break, save for the goal. The goal is why his rating jumped. Bruno’s jump in rating was for his improved overall play after an abysmal first half. Cavani was still abysmal after the break. I did not feel that Rashford’s overall play improved at all in the second half, but he did get the goal, but that doesn’t somehow negate the obviousness of his overall poor performance.
 

FizzyWomack

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Far too soon to put him up there with Law Best & Charlton.

He’s had lots of games when he’s played awful but then he’s scored a goal. If only he would consistently play better than he wouldn’t have half the criticism he gets.

IMO he will improve and possibly become a club legend, but right now he’s certainly no Rooney or Ronaldo.
 

Jvalley

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It's not just this forum, I'm afraid. Rashford is the player the United fans in every WhatsApp group I'm in targets the whole 90 minutes.

It's odd, but I think it has to do with how many United fans judge a players ability. I'd bet a lot of United fans thinks Pogba is better than Bruno or would caveat their answer heavily if they did say Bruno.

Rashford can spend the whole match trying to make things happen, making runs in behind, trying crosses and Utd fans don't think he's in the game. The same fans would see Martial amble around for the whole match but turn a defender once and think he was great.

Mason as much as I rate him has 2 league goals this season and often does the things Marcus is accused of but he's like royalty here.
Rashford didn't have a season as poor despite more difficult circumstances but he gets all the criticism.

Tbh I think a lot of fans get annoyed when Rashford get praise and Martial doesn't
 

hobbers

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Most of Rashford's 2021 has been a string of really, really shit performances, and certainly some of that is down to him carrying what is obviously a pretty bad shoulder injury. And being overplayed for many months straight.

He's got a lot of flaws in his game, awful decision making and selfishness being two of them.

Don't get me wrong though, as bad as he's been, it's no where near as catastrophically bad as Martial has been this season.
 

Desert Eagle

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Rashford is a red through n through.He has done great social work. He is one of our most exciting prospects ever. His combination of explosiveness and finishing with moments of magic sprinkled in has been mainly a treat to watch. However the last three seasons Manchester United the club has treated Rashford poorly. We have probably shaved a couple years off his career with the mismanagement and forcing him to be our best attacking player. If we want peak Rashford we need to lower his burden and that's on the people in charge.
 

VP89

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He's very productive but his all round play needs improvement still. I think he over dribbles at times, or he can be too quiet in other games (I'd rather the former of course because it shows he's trying to get at players).

Don't think that fair criticism should be misconstrued as a lack of support on the player when he puts on a United shirt, though.

Rashford is a red through n through.He has done great social work. He is one of our most exciting prospects ever. His combination of explosiveness and finishing with moments of magic sprinkled in has been mainly a treat to watch. However the last three seasons Manchester United the club has treated Rashford poorly. We have probably shaved a couple years off his career with the mismanagement and forcing him to be our best attacking player. If we want peak Rashford we need to lower his burden and that's on the people in charge.
There is an element of burden on the player too. They need to tell the clubs when they don't feel right, and Rashford doesn't do that. Like Rooney didn't or Owen (probably) didn't.
 

simplyared

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Most of Rashford's 2021 has been a string of really, really shit performances, and certainly some of that is down to him carrying what is obviously a pretty bad shoulder injury. And being overplayed for many months straight.

He's got a lot of flaws in his game, awful decision making and selfishness being two of them.

Don't get me wrong though, as bad as he's been, it's no where near as catastrophically bad as Martial has been this season.
Sorry bro for using you as an example, but comments like these are the reason why this thread was started.
 

Red00012

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So he’s exempt from criticism because he’s done so much for the club :lol:
 

-Supreme-

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So he’s exempt from criticism because he’s done so much for the club :lol:
Think it's more a case that to many posters mind he's supposedly carrying injuries for the past two years when other players have their own shared of problems. However when it comes to Rashford his excuses are endless and we apparently are not allowed to give constructive criticism because he's always been injured.

I do wonder at what stage we can say he's not injured?
 

WR10

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He needs to improve his basic skills - that's just objective.
 

Harry190

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He looks like a broken man. There is a physical issue somewhere that we don't know of.
 

Sayros

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This thread has to be a joke, right?
 

Red00012

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Think it's more a case that to many posters mind he's supposedly carrying injuries for the past two years when other players have their own shared of problems. However when it comes to Rashford his excuses are endless and we apparently are not allowed to give constructive criticism because he's always been injured.

I do wonder at what stage we can say he's not injured?
I made a similar comment last night . If he plays well the injury disappears but when he’s dithering on the ball , trying to go through a wall of defenders with his head down or just giving away possession he’s injured .
 

hobbers

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Sorry bro for using you as an example, but comments like these are the reason why this thread was started.
Great. So you started a thread because you can't handle valid criticism of your idol?
 

harms

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I'd put money on if Cavani had got that goal yesterday people would have forgotten his abysmal performance and heaped praise on him. Yesterday Rashford was a threat to their defense every time he had the ball at his feet. Ask yourself why are there so many defenders around him. Because every single manager in the PL knows they must deal with Rashford and stop him. If you look back on that game and say he was poor then you either have an agenda towards the player or you don't understand player contribution.

I wouldn't even attempt to compare Rashford to Best. What I'm saying is Rashford like other players who know they have quality and believe in themselves put themselves on the line and they want to make things happen. If players like Best were criticized for taking on 1 player to many and losing possession they would not develop. Rashford is not George Best and never will be. He's just a player who knows his qualities and wants to utilize them to the maximum to win games for Man Utd.

Re the legend comment: Could be perceived as over the top but I believe he's very close already. Nothing to do with his off-pitch projects but purely based on his contribution to the club on the field and the way he goes about it.
I’m not sure if this Cavani assumption is based on anything factual. People praised his performances earlier in the season because he worked his ass off pressing & making himself available for dangerous passes, even though our players didn’t exploit it to the maximum. With performance like yesterday’s I really doubt that a goal would’ve changed people’s perception.

As for the last bit — I doubt that he’s achieved more than, say, Kidd or Whiteside who looked like potential legends at one point. Hopefully he’ll achieve more than them, of course, but at this point everything is still too dependent on what he’ll achieve in the future rather than on what he has achieved up until this point.
 

M15 Red.

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Could it be that he's a victim of too much too soon? His first goals in the Europa League seem like a lifetime ago to me, despite him still being only 23 years old.

Rashford being a Mancunian also adds extra expectations. Maybe not for some of the wider fan base, but for many closer to home, it matters. I'm guilty of giving him too much leeway for bad performances in the past for that very reason. I'd like to see his place in the team challenged more, because it does seem no matter how badly he performs, he's still guaranteed a spot.

That can't be healthy for him or the team.
 

DoomSlayer

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A lot of our fanbase literally hate him because he is English. Same goes for a few other of our players. And I'm not even English myself, but it's very obvious, especially on Twitter.
 

Statue of Limitations

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I love Rashford, and his off the field exploits have also given him a ton of goodwill from opposition supporters as well as making us admire him even more.

However, objectively he does not do enough on the field, he is nowhere near as clinical for us as we would like.

I think also people forget how young he still is - I would not like to see him leave us, he can achieve his potential with us, and I believe he will - just (objectively) he is not hitting the heights today that he is capable of.
He is a terrific player, devastating on his day but sadly more often than not his performances fall in the average range.

He might not be an Mbappe (who is??) but comfortably one of the better young forwards in Europe.
 

Adamsk7

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I am going to say this seemingly until I am blue in he face but maybe I should put it in caps for added dramatic effect....

MARCUS RASHFORD IS CLEARLY INJURED

he’s been rushed back multiple times (most recently with his ankle) and we’ve heard he’s playing through a shoulder injury anyway that will require surgery after the euros. He is absolutely, unequivocally, not fit.Ole, the staff and no doubt Marcus himself have taken these decisions and on the back of the fact he scored last night and also in other games where he’s not looked right, it seems like one of those damned if you do things. I’d rather not play him until he’s 100% and he should get his surgery now BUT like it or not, we are still reliant on him to some extent.

We’re gonna end up ruining him but I understand why it’s happening - other than Bruno he’s our most consistent performer in terms of actual output (goals + assists).

That’s why when some say we don’t need Sancho (or Grealish) I’m like “what?” . If he were in our squad this season we may of actually have been able to not play Marcus when he’s not right.
 

DoomSlayer

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I am going to say this seemingly until I am blue in he face but maybe I should put it in caps for added dramatic effect....

MARCUS RASHFORD IS CLEARLY INJURED

he’s been rushed back multiple times (most recently with his ankle) and we’ve heard he’s playing through a shoulder injury anyway that will require surgery after the euros. He is absolutely, unequivocally, not fit.Ole, the staff and no doubt Marcus himself have taken these decisions and on the back of the fact he scored last night and also in other games where he’s not looked right, it seems like one of those damned if you do things. I’d rather not play him until he’s 100% and he should get his surgery now BUT like it or not, we are still reliant on him to some extent.

We’re gonna end up ruining him but I understand why it’s happening - other than Bruno he’s our most consistent performer in terms of actual output (goals + assists).
Yeah, I'm with you. We've all seen him run like crazy under Ole when fully fit.

Also, why do people think this is out of the question or that other players also play with similar injury problems? Is it not factually correct that Rashford was playing though a double back stress fracture? And then we learned from RVP that he had the same exact injury, explaining how serious and dangerous it is. I'm sorry, but a lot of our fans are short-sighted and not very smart or observant.
 

RedDevil@84

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If you see Rashford the whole game and don't understand why he is frustrating to watch, then it is difficult to make understand.
It doesn't matter if you records are one of the best for the club at that age. If you can score a good goal in a difficult game, you should be putting away sitters in an easy game. If you can make runs, beat opponents, create chances, then it should be obvious that running straight at three defenders is a dumb plan.

We have all seen what he is capable of.

And before I forget, Rashford has seemed unfit all season. He is injured. And it is frustrating that team Rashford and club just keep postponing it forever.
 

Adamsk7

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Yeah, I'm with you. We've all seen him run like crazy under Ole when fully fit.

Also, why do people think this is out of the question or that other players also play with similar injury problems? Is it not factually correct that Rashford was playing though a double back stress fracture? And then we learned from RVP that he had the same exact injury, explaining how serious and dangerous it is. I'm sorry, but a lot of our fans are short-sighted and not very smart or observant.
Exactly. He hasn’t been fully fit since the back end of last year. He absolutely tore flavour of the month Upamecano a new butthole not that many months ago and looked better than Mbappe in the first game against PSG. Since then, he’s had at least 4 minor injuries and then this consistent shoulder one that he’s getting injections for to manage. He’s off for a game, then back, then off again, then back but he has rarely completed 90 minutes whenever he has been rushed back which tells me he’s not really fit enough to play any of these games.
Its a bloody shame but like I say, I can’t see a way out of it because who else is gonna get our goals?

I also very much agree that it’s mind boggling a lot of our fans can’t see this