The treatment on here of Marcus Rashford

calodo2003

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Sorry bro for using you as an example, but comments like these are the reason why this thread was started.
How is that in anyway not an accurate, measured assessment of Rashford?
 

-Supreme-

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I made a similar comment last night . If he plays well the injury disappears but when he’s dithering on the ball , trying to go through a wall of defenders with his head down or just giving away possession he’s injured .
And somehow his injuries have played a big part to his poor decision making.
 

big rons sovereign

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Goal aside, he was pretty poor last night and looked well off the pace.
I was amazed he started tbh.

My main gripe with him this season, or maybe I'm just noticing more due to watching more games, is the insistence to run into dead ends. Rather than go outside or cut inside he'll run straight into 3 defenders and more often than not get crowded out.
He was guilty of it a few times last night and the commentary picked up on it.

As a spectator and fan it's frustrating to watch and one time in recent memory he didn't do it was against city when he chose to pass and Shaw scored from it.

As a winger myself I can understand why he does it, if you manage to pull it off you look the absolute Bollox but it usually ends up in frustrated groans all around.

I'm not doubting his ability, we've seen him rip the arse out some of the best defences around, but if he's carrying the injuries we're told, then I think he should probably simplify his game a bit rather than try to carry more than his share.
At least until he's fit enough to tear it up again.

Ideally he'd have had the whole summer to rest, but the Euros will put a stop to that.
Bloody waste of time, especially with 2d head in charge.
 

Sayros

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This thread is ironic in that it's the reason why he gets criticism, because some act as if his crap doesn't stink and overrate him to a ridiculous point that it's easy to see why some will compensate by going overboard in their criticism of him. It's similar to the reason why Martial gets so much stick as well, because there's a big section of fans that protect him blindly at times (although now it's a mighty tricky job to pull off).

I see a lot of that with Rashford as well. I wouldn't take comments from match day thread as a proper assessment of people's opinions of players, it's just a lot of reactionary nonsense, I wouldn't sweat it too much, but reading some of the comments on here, it's pretty easy to understand how polarizing some of the assessments of Rashford are and why it creates this divide. No one should be above criticism, and Rashford is deserving of plenty, but it does go overboard at times but that's how it is on a football forum.

This thread just feels unnecessary because that isn't going to change anytime soon.
 

RedDevilzFox

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Good news is he didn't squander any obvious sitters yesterday. Bad news is aside from the goal he was barely involved. His dribbling is comical and I have no idea why he thinks he can "messi" his way thru 3-4 defenders, only to eventually hit a wall and lose the ball. I also think he is pretty bad with running with the ball at his feet and with his head up. Often times he ends up ahead of the ball and then trying to drag it into position.

I think he is a good player but overhyped too much, mostly by United fans and I am guilty of that as well.
 

jem

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Here are some of the comments in the Player Performanc thread after last nights game:
"Absolutely horrific performance"
"Great goal but he was shit tonight"
"His allround game needs polishing if we want to win leagues and champions leagues"

How much longer do we have to put up with these "shitty" comments aimed at a player who gives so much to our football club both on and off the field.
Marcus Rashford is what our club is all about. His performances on the field are unequalled by anyone else in the current squad. He gives 100% in every game. He's probably playing at present through injury.
He's far and away our most dangerous player going forward. He's still only 23 yrs and has carried the club for a good part of his career since he made his debut for the 1st team.

Ffs the lad's already a legend! Law Best Charlton Rashford!

Get a grip!
Honestly, and with all due respect, I think you need to get a grip if you have a problem with the quoted comments, particularly the second and third one. I love Rashford, but he can be infuriating at times.
 

hobbers

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Those days have gone mate for me having idols. A favourite player yes and I've had many over the years. Just having a problem with your use of the word "valid"
You will struggle to find anyone who thinks Rashford has played well this season, particularly since the new year. His performances in January and February were especially dismal. And he was really poor again last night. He looks a shadow of his former self. Were it not for Martial turning into a zombie Rashford would have had a lot more criticism, truth be told he's been lucky Martial's collapse has overshadowed his big dip in performance levels from last season.

All we can do is hope it's mostly, or ideally entirely, down to the pain of his injury and the fact it's probably affecting his confidence of taking hits/being tackled.
 

Lentwood

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I’ll quite happily admit I’m a critic of Rashford and the reason is evident in the OP - some of our fans go way, way overboard in their assessment of his abilities and they need a reality check.

If we kept it sensible then I wouldn’t see the need to argue about whether he is “good”, “very good” or indifferent (we all have our own opinions) but when we’ve got people banging on about him being a “world class talent”, or “as good as Rooney or Ronaldo at the same age” or “a legend...like Best, Charlton and Law” it personally drives me mad.
 

OrcaFat

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How is that in anyway not an accurate, measured assessment of Rashford?
Everyone is welcome to have their opinion but “String of really really shit performances” doesn’t sound accurate or measured at all.
 

RedDevilzFox

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I’ll quite happily admit I’m a critic of Rashford and the reason is evident in the OP - some of our fans go way, way overboard in their assessment of his abilities and they need a reality check.

If we kept it sensible then I wouldn’t see the need to argue about whether he is “good”, “very good” or indifferent (we all have our own opinions) but when we’ve got people banging on about him being a “world class talent”, or “as good as Rooney or Ronaldo at the same age” or “a legend...like Best, Charlton and Law” it personally drives me mad.
Unfortunately fans have lost any semblance of what a "world class" or "generational" talent is. Just the other day someone defined Grealish as "generational" talent. Go figure...
 

The holy trinity 68

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Interesting to hear from the Rashford critics on here. Which team(s) in the PL do you consider he doesn't get into?
Man City, Liverpool of last season not this one, but Firmino and Jota are better for Liverpool's system as Rashford occupies the same positions as Mane and Salah and not the former two. Chelsea on paper have attackers as good as Rashford in Havertz, Werner, Pulisic, Ziyech. He also gets in Spurs as the 3rd attacker as Son and Kane are better but no one else is.

So he would get in 19 of 20 teams week in week out but would only be a rotation option at City like most City players.
 

calodo2003

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Everyone is welcome to have their opinion but “String of really really shit performances” doesn’t sound accurate or measured at all.
That sounds very accurate when discussing his 2021 performances, that’s the string being discussed. Harsh words don’t make the performances any different.
 
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VP89

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Everyone is welcome to have their opinion but “String of really really shit performances” doesn’t sound accurate or measured at all.
That's not true - his general performances have been quite poor for a series of games. It's down to injury related factors, most likely but it's nonetheless true. Whilst he delivered in that moment, his general play yesterday could have been better too. Of course that moment changed the game, so we shouldn't mark the occasion as one of his poor days.
 

OrcaFat

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You will struggle to find anyone who thinks Rashford has played well this season, particularly since the new year. His performances in January and February were especially dismal. And he was really poor again last night. He looks a shadow of his former self. Were it not for Martial turning into a zombie Rashford would have had a lot more criticism, truth be told he's been lucky Martial's collapse has overshadowed his big dip in performance levels from last season.

All we can do is hope it's mostly, or ideally entirely, down to the pain of his injury and the fact it's probably affecting his confidence of taking hits/being tackled.
He’s been below his best but most of what you say is quite an exaggeration, to me.

He’s important to how we play and his class comes to the surface pretty often. I agree with the OP, I don’t see the point of hammering him. Too early to say Legend, of course, but I don’t see why he can’t get there in time.
 

Adamsk7

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And somehow his injuries have played a big part to his poor decision making.
I genuinely think it does.

I am in no way as good as Marcus Rashford but I did play football to a decent level and I’d often play through thigh or ankle injuries that I’d get quite regularly. I’d still be able to do things like a good finish, a run here and there etc but it would heavily play its part on my decision making. I think you are MORE likely to run with the ball down dead ends and try to take on too many players because a) you’d be thinking about the injury constantly which means your quick thinking will go so along with it quick distribution b) dribbling with the ball just hurts less than passing or shooting with most injuries c) you’ll probably be off the pace anyway so will take too many touches and lo control, partly because you aren’t sharp but also because you are tying too hard to over compensate.

it’s really hard to explain but in my experience a player playing through an injury, at least in my experience, is more likely to overcomplicate. I’d also barely track back because of course running full pelt and getting involved in challenges will most likely make the injury worse especially if you’re doing it all game.
 

OrcaFat

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That sounds very accurate when discussing his 2021 performances, that’s the strong being discussed. Harsh words don’t make the performances any different.
Well hey, it’s what you think, so fill your boots.
 

El Jefe

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Law, Best, Charlton, Rashford :lol:

I don't know how most people have missed this thread obvious attempt at a WUM.
 

calodo2003

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He’s been below his best but most of what you say is quite an exaggeration, to me.

He’s important to how we play and his class comes to the surface pretty often. I agree with the OP, I don’t see the point of hammering him. Too early to say Legend, of course, but I don’t see why he can’t get there in time.
The OP literally thinks he should be considered alongside the big three. He comes to this debate with extremely tinted glasses, almost delusionally tinted. It’s easy to see how such people take any criticism of Rashford as hyperbolic abuse.

It could be an epic WUM, but just don’t think so.
 

OrcaFat

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We can touch on why you don’t think his 2021 performances are subpar as a whole in his performance thread, if you wish.
I do think they are sub par, for him, yes. But not a string of really really shit. The OP was, I’m sure, exaggerating to put him with the holy trinity. For fun, probably. But when you get people saying he’s shit all the time, sometimes an exaggeration the other way is inevitable. He’s a very good player, somewhat off form.
 

calodo2003

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I do think they are sub par, for him, yes. But not a string of really really shit. The OP was, I’m sure, exaggerating to put him with the holy trinity. For fun, probably. But when you get people saying he’s shit all the time, sometimes an exaggeration the other way is inevitable. He’s a very good player, somewhat off form.
Agree. And his 2021 performances have been really, really shit.

We can debate about the vernacular all day long, but it doesn’t improve his 2021 performances. So many get hung up on emotive words.
 

-Supreme-

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I genuinely think it does.

I am in no way as good as Marcus Rashford but I did play football to a decent level and I’d often play through thigh or ankle injuries that I’d get quite regularly. I’d still be able to do things like a good finish, a run here and there etc but it would heavily play its part on my decision making. I think you are MORE likely to run with the ball down dead ends and try to take on too many players because a) you’d be thinking about the injury constantly which means your quick thinking will go so along with it quick distribution b) dribbling with the ball just hurts less than passing or shooting with most injuries c) you’ll probably be off the pace anyway so will take too many touches and lo control, partly because you aren’t sharp but also because you are tying too hard to over compensate.

it’s really hard to explain but in my experience a player playing through an injury, at least in my experience, is more likely to overcomplicate. I’d also barely track back because of course running full pelt and getting involved in challenges will most likely make the injury worse especially if you’re doing it all game.
Rashford has often shown poor decision making even before his apparent injuries, but people have somehow completely forgot / ignored this and then come up with excuses as if this wasn't the real Rashford.
 

edcunited1878

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The online verbal abuse is par for the course with choice words getting to people. As @calodo2003 mentions and others as well, people get hung up on words/semantics.

However, I think it's totally fair that people are criticizing him. Most are logical and some are way off the mark. But the consensus is pretty much the same:
  • We're all proud and delighted of Marcus because of his importance and impact he's had on the pitch and in the community...and he's come through the Academy, which is another proud point
  • As with many players, there's a certain amount of hype with them and he's always at the forefront
  • With that said, he shouldn't be given a pass for his on-pitch performances and deserves criticism like all of the United players
  • Marcus being young isn't a valid excuse for him anymore - those of us who clearly remember Rooney and Ronaldo and other players like Giggs, Beckham, etc know the same exactly feeling and hope for Marcus - there's another step up or two to make him a genuine top player, which has nothing to do with final output - we desperately need/want him to meet those heights
  • If Marcus is able to make that next step or two up, not only will he obviously benefit, but the team as a whole will benefit because he's central to United's on-pitch aspirations
  • He's a clear match winner like Bruno and Pogba who can make something out of nothing
  • Finally, Marcus can improve but the most frustrating thing is that he has continued to make the same mistakes for the past two seasons - his decision making and awareness is average at best and it holds him back
 

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Man City, Liverpool of last season not this one, but Firmino and Jota are better for Liverpool's system as Rashford occupies the same positions as Mane and Salah and not the former two. Chelsea on paper have attackers as good as Rashford in Havertz, Werner, Pulisic, Ziyech. He also gets in Spurs as the 3rd attacker as Son and Kane are better but no one else is.

So he would get in 19 of 20 teams week in week out but would only be a rotation option at City like most City players.
Fair assessment! He'd be rotated in Pep's team as most of his players are. Reckon he'd start in the Liverpool line-up, although he wouldn't replace Mane. All the other teams he walks into.
 

noodlehair

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He's spent a majority of the season either being senselessly used out of position, or being played game after game despite having multiple limbs injured at the same time. I think this is somewhat overlooked. There's not many players who can play well on only one leg and one arm. Its not Monty Python.

I don't know why Ole thinks that having use of both your arms and legs isn't an important factor in being "fit"...but then we played Rashford when he had a broken back last season. He could be decapitated and we'd just send him out with his head celotaped back on, then maybe sub him after an hour when he starts to visibly decompose or vultures start pecking at his face when he's trying to take a freekick.

I mean I don't think he's been playing well but he clearly doesn't look right. He wont put any weight into challenges because his arm is clearly fecked, which means he isn't running at people like he normally would because you wont get past someone in the PL without having to jostle them. And more recently he is also visibly limping around in every game, which, although I'm not a medical expert, I think usually indicates an injury.

He does get a lot of unfair stick, but then the angry mob have needed a new target since Lingard stopped playing, and Rashford, Fernandes and Maguire are the only three who don't get dropped every other game. Maguire's faults are usually outshone by one of our other defenders and Fernandes even when he's shite ends up winning us the game most of the time. Rashford of the three is the one who we aren't seeing the best of
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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And more recently he is also visibly limping around in every game, which, although I'm not a medical expert, I think usually indicates an injury.
Yes noods, he has the shoulder injury and he tweaked his ankle versus City. I doubt that he's had sufficient rest to allow for full healing, think he got about six days after it first occurred. Not quite enough, probably, as it's something that you can easily aggravate in training or a match.
 

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Needs to work on his game and he's a right winger all day long.
 

Mindhunter

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He's spent a majority of the season either being senselessly used out of position, or being played game after game despite having multiple limbs injured at the same time. I think this is somewhat overlooked. There's not many players who can play well on only one leg and one arm. Its not Monty Python.

I don't know why Ole thinks that having use of both your arms and legs isn't an important factor in being "fit"...but then we played Rashford when he had a broken back last season. He could be decapitated and we'd just send him out with his head celotaped back on, then maybe sub him after an hour when he starts to visibly decompose or vultures start pecking at his face when he's trying to take a freekick.

I mean I don't think he's been playing well but he clearly doesn't look right. He wont put any weight into challenges because his arm is clearly fecked, which means he isn't running at people like he normally would because you wont get past someone in the PL without having to jostle them. And more recently he is also visibly limping around in every game, which, although I'm not a medical expert, I think usually indicates an injury.

He does get a lot of unfair stick, but then the angry mob have needed a new target since Lingard stopped playing, and Rashford, Fernandes and Maguire are the only three who don't get dropped every other game. Maguire's faults are usually outshone by one of our other defenders and Fernandes even when he's shite ends up winning us the game most of the time. Rashford of the three is the one who we aren't seeing the best of
Just curious about what you think his ideal position is? Overall, I do agree with you that Rashford has definitely lost the edge and it could be due to injuries. He just looks like someone doing a job, not someone who is trying to give his 110%. He has his moments but his overall game has greatly deteriorated this season.

That said, some of the things he does which are very infuriating may not be stemming from his niggles or injuries. His decision making has been below par all season. He often tries to run or dribble past 3 defenders to work out a shooting opportunity instead of being aware of the movement around him and play in a team mate in a better position. This doesn't impact us much when we have a 2 goal cushion in a game but feels really frustrating when we lose points.

His finishing itself needs to be better although this is somewhat of a team wide malaise. We somehow shoot right at the keeper even when it is more difficult to miss than score.
 

stepic

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Not sure how anyone can sit there and be happy with him attempting to dribble through 3 or 4 players and getting dispossessed time and time again. It’s like you’re watching a different player. It was terrible but just standard for his season.
 

el3mel

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"Absolutely horrific performance"
"Great goal but he was shit tonight"
"His allround game needs polishing if we want to win leagues and champions leagues"
Really ? What's "shitty" in these comments ? These are the truth. He scored a great goal but this was a terrible performance (And damn yes, I'm the one who said that). That's about it. Remove the goal, what else did you get from him yesterday ?

At least bring on better examples if you want to say he's harshly treated.

Anyway, Rashford is our most frustrating player but he's a player that I know quite well that he has ton of quality but he doesn't show it more often and takes some really weird decisions on the pitch that doesn't suit the quality he has. If a player I know is shit and performing like shit, I won't care much because this is his base level, but it's frustrating when one of our best players on paper in terms of quality can't bring it consistently enough, or becomes very selfish on the pitch trying to do everything on his own ignoring his teammates completely.
 

Red00012

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Interesting to hear from the Rashford critics on here. Which team(s) in the PL do you consider he doesn't get into?
What does this have to do with anything ?
Is he exempt from criticism because he gets on most PL teams ?
 

hobbers

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I mean I don't think he's been playing well but he clearly doesn't look right. He wont put any weight into challenges because his arm is clearly fecked, which means he isn't running at people like he normally would because you wont get past someone in the PL without having to jostle them. And more recently he is also visibly limping around in every game, which, although I'm not a medical expert, I think usually indicates an injury.
Yeah the first minute of the Everton game really stood out for me, he went up to try and win a header on the touchline, got a small nudge in the back and went down in agony. Spent the next 15 minutes grimacing and the game pretty much passed him by.

That probably explains quite neatly why he's become so so bad at slowing down the tempo with the ball and just facing up the opposition. He's basically playing to avoid upper body contact.
 

MadDogg

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I’ll quite happily admit I’m a critic of Rashford and the reason is evident in the OP - some of our fans go way, way overboard in their assessment of his abilities and they need a reality check.

If we kept it sensible then I wouldn’t see the need to argue about whether he is “good”, “very good” or indifferent (we all have our own opinions) but when we’ve got people banging on about him being a “world class talent”, or “as good as Rooney or Ronaldo at the same age” or “a legend...like Best, Charlton and Law” it personally drives me mad.
I'd say 'world class talent' is fine. He's shown that when he actually is playing near his best he's capable of ripping just about any team apart, and he did have that 3 month period last season where he was playing at just about world class level. The hope is that he can get to that kind of level on a fairly consistent basis as he matures.
 

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Hes been poor this seasom but hes overplayed and hes playing injured for sure and despite his poor performancw hes still creating and scoring more than the majority of the squad besides bruno