The treatment on here of Marcus Rashford

RedDevilzFox

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
750
  1. I think he would improve simply from cutting out the "dribble my way thru wall of defenders" stunt that he attempts at least half a dozen times every game. He is not very good at it. It comes off sometimes (rarely) and he looks amazing but that's a heavy price to pay.
  2. Someone could also teach him how to run fast with the ball with his head up. I am surprised no one has worked on this with him cause he is also not very good at it, gets ball all tangled up in the feet or usually ends up leaving the ball behind.
  3. His aerial game is virtually non existent.
  4. Doesn't make nearly any runs off the ball.
  5. His shooting is atrocious (not last game of course). Many times he simply goes for power and shoots straight at the GK when the entire goal is wide open. Didn't Van Gaal tell him to aim for the corners? Why is this so complex?
Here - five objective things that would improve his game many fold IMO. Putting his name with "legend" in the same sentence is laughable and no wonder fans scoff at this stuff. Next time people are using "world class" and "generational" please validate what it means. For me world class is Lewandowski, Ibrahimovic, prime Rooney, Suarez, Aguero, RVP etc. Rashford is comfortably a tier or two below that.
 

KikiDaKats

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
1,312
Location
Salford
Supports
His Liverpool supporting wife
Let’s stop kidding ourselves. The lads is not had the expected impact this season. Though he doesn’t look right.
That’s not questioning or criticising his talent. I think him being criticised is symptomatic to how the club tries to make him our only hope and fans will rather not have a player get too big for their boots. Statements like he is selfish, ball hugging, unpolished, inconsistent, etc. In my opinion are directed towards the club due to them ramming him down our throats.
I think the player he will be is what are seeing right now, a capable game changer. What more can we ask from him?
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
3,674
As long as it’s not personal or raises inappropriate issues, such as his political advocacy, I don’t see why it should be out of bounds to criticize any footballer.

As for me, I’m a huge fan of Rashford but I’d like to see him stop trying to beat 2-3 defenders, which he’s never successful at pulling off. With that and adding a header to his game he’d find himself in truly elite status.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Full Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
1,182
Location
Norn Iron
If he was playing for someone else I would be incredibly jealous. Hes brilliant.

19 goals 10 assists from left wing. Thats elite level numbers. When you find out hes carrying a shoulder and ankle injury and continues to play, you realise hes got the heart. Delighted hes one of ours.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Full Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
1,182
Location
Norn Iron
  1. I think he would improve simply from cutting out the "dribble my way thru wall of defenders" stunt that he attempts at least half a dozen times every game. He is not very good at it. It comes off sometimes (rarely) and he looks amazing but that's a heavy price to pay.
  2. Someone could also teach him how to run fast with the ball with his head up. I am surprised no one has worked on this with him cause he is also not very good at it, gets ball all tangled up in the feet or usually ends up leaving the ball behind.
  3. His aerial game is virtually non existent.
  4. Doesn't make nearly any runs off the ball.
  5. His shooting is atrocious (not last game of course). Many times he simply goes for power and shoots straight at the GK when the entire goal is wide open. Didn't Van Gaal tell him to aim for the corners? Why is this so complex?
Here - five objective things that would improve his game many fold IMO. Putting his name with "legend" in the same sentence is laughable and no wonder fans scoff at this stuff. Next time people are using "world class" and "generational" please validate what it means. For me world class is Lewandowski, Ibrahimovic, prime Rooney, Suarez, Aguero, RVP etc. Rashford is comfortably a tier or two below that.
Not a bit of this made sense. Serious WUM.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,796
There are few valid points/criticism and then there are points that are just silly. Just like any other ManUtd player, his game is micro analyzed and the other players are rated based on highlights.

Some guy criticized him for his goal scoring record using outdated (knowingly) games per goal when many of his games are as a sub. When pointed out how good his goal scoring record is compared to the best wingers of this decade, he didn't respond and I'm very much sure that guy will post the same nonsense after few days.

Anyways criticism should be always fine but that shouldn't change into endless moaning about everything. He should work on his finishing considering he has messed up too many chances and also should make use of one twos to unlock defenses rather than just trying to dribble past everyone.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,796
Not one of his five points is incorrect, all are valid criticisms of Rashford. Many have been consistent issues for years.
At least 2 aren't. He makes plenty of runs off the ball, one of the reason why he gets so many 1v1 chances. His shooting isn't atrocious.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
10,500
Location
Florida
At least 2 aren't. He makes plenty of runs off the ball, one of the reason why he gets so many 1v1 chances. His shooting isn't atrocious.
His off the ball movement has dried up massively this calendar year, that’s why we see so much of him trying to take on three defenders & always losing it. Don’t mistake a through ball for an off the ball run. He doesn’t do what Cavani does.

His finishing is good, but his shooting from distance is not good. Maybe not atrocious, but definitely not in his plus column.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,796
His off the ball movement has dried up massively this calendar year, that’s why we see so much of him trying to take on three defenders & always losing it. Don’t mistake a through ball for an off the ball run. He doesn’t do what Cavani does.

His finishing is good, but his shooting from distance is not good. Maybe not atrocious, but definitely not in his plus column.
You don't end up with highest xg or maybe in top 3 xg in the league without good movement. Its his finishing that let him down. He makes plenty of runs off the ball.

Edit: My bad, he was in top 3. Now he isn't. He is around 15th now.
 
Last edited:

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
10,500
Location
Florida
You don't end up with highest xg or maybe in top 3 xg in the league without good movement. Its his finishing that let him down. He makes plenty of runs off the ball.
Christ, this shit again. Listen, sabermetrics is great & all, I’m an acolyte when it is used by my MLB team, but come on.

Anyone watching him yesterday saw no off the ball movement of note. Anyone watching him over the past four months has seen no appreciable off the ball movement, especially against low block teams. His goal yesterday came off of a break. He is one of the more static players on our team. Voodoo math isn’t going to prove otherwise.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,796
Christ, this shit again. Listen, sabermetrics is great & all, I’m an acolyte when it is used by my MLB team, but come on.

Anyone watching him yesterday saw no off the ball movement of note. Anyone watching him over the past four months has seen no appreciable off the ball movement, especially against low block teams. His goal yesterday came off of a break. He is one of the more static players on our team. Voodoo math isn’t going to prove otherwise.
Good to see we are rating players on game by game basis.

Anyone who watched him against Sociedad would say he is arguably the best in the world when it comes to off the ball movement. I mean why not go game by game basis.

Probably this is the post for this thread. Everything is extreme, just because he doesn't move like Cavani doesn't mean his movement isnt good. Cavani is arguably best in the work when it comes to movement off the ball, at least at his peak. There is no shame in not matching Cavani.
 

city-puma

Full Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
910
Location
NYC
His off the ball movement has dried up massively this calendar year, that’s why we see so much of him trying to take on three defenders & always losing it. Don’t mistake a through ball for an off the ball run. He doesn’t do what Cavani does.

His finishing is good, but his shooting from distance is not good. Maybe not atrocious, but definitely not in his plus column.
If you don’t understand why his attempts to take on three are good try in that game to unsettle their well organized defense system , you are helpless to make meaningful points. I feel sorry for you.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,796
His off the ball movement has dried up massively this calendar year, that’s why we see so much of him trying to take on three defenders & always losing it. Don’t mistake a through ball for an off the ball run. He doesn’t do what Cavani does.

His finishing is good, but his shooting from distance is not good. Maybe not atrocious, but definitely not in his plus column.
So his movement is not good, shooting is not good (apparently his finishing is good when we have seen him missing so many chances), his dribbling is not good, his decision making is not good, then what is he good at?

Why he is getting so many goals + assists (top 5 in the league and top 9 in top 5 leagues)?


Or he is just good at everything in that one moment and then turns to shit (or not good enough level) for the rest of the game?
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
10,500
Location
Florida
Good to see we are rating players on game by game basis.

Anyone who watched him against Sociedad would say he is arguably the best in the world when it comes to off the ball movement. I mean why not go game by game basis.

Probably this is the post for this thread. Everything is extreme, just because he doesn't move like Cavani doesn't mean his movement isnt good. Cavani is arguably best in the work when it comes to movement off the ball, at least at his peak. There is no shame in not matching Cavani.
My god, best in the world at off the ball movement? You simply cannot be serious.

I started the discussion about his ineffective off the ball movement with you by stating that it has dried up this calendar year, then I gave a specific example of the previous game to emphasize my point. Weird you would fixate on the one game statement while ignoring the broader sentiment that was just stated.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
10,500
Location
Florida
If you don’t understand why his attempts to take on three are good try in that game to unsettle their well organized defense system , you are helpless to make meaningful points. I feel sorry for you.
This has to be a WUM, yes? White text?

You seriously think his incessant, head down charge into three opponents only to lose the ball is beneficial to our play? Guaranteed multiple unforced turnovers every game is a legitimate tactic? This is a positive for the team?

Come on, man.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,796
My god, best in the world at off the ball movement? You simply cannot be serious.

I started the discussion about his ineffective off the ball movement with you by stating that it has dried up this calendar year, then I gave a specific example of the previous game to emphasize my point. Weird you would fixate on the one game statement while ignoring the broader sentiment that was just stated.
You can't read.

I agree with the point that in the recent months it has been a problem. Overall it's not.

Also go on and tell us what is he good at.
 

city-puma

Full Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
910
Location
NYC
My god, best in the world at off the ball movement? You simply cannot be serious.

I started the discussion about his ineffective off the ball movement with you by stating that it has dried up this calendar year, then I gave a specific example of the previous game to emphasize my point. Weird you would fixate on the one game statement while ignoring the broader sentiment that was just stated.
Another issue of your opinion is not to consider the circumstances, such as his physical condition and what options our squad has for certain games.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
48,582
One thing I've noticed on here are that there are two cults who are the most toxic towards Rashford, one is the Mourinho cult and other is the Martial FC cult. Hope both of the twats stop supporting United.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
48,582
His off the ball movement has dried up massively this calendar year, that’s why we see so much of him trying to take on three defenders & always losing it. Don’t mistake a through ball for an off the ball run. He doesn’t do what Cavani does.

His finishing is good, but his shooting from distance is not good. Maybe not atrocious, but definitely not in his plus column.
Quit watching football and start watching some other thing.

If he's as shite as you say then there's no way he'd been in PL's top most prodcutive attackers even without taking penalties.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
10,500
Location
Florida
So his movement is not good, shooting is not good (apparently his finishing is good when we have seen him missing so many chances), his dribbling is not good, his decision making is not good, then what is he good at?

Why he is getting so many goals + assists (top 5 in the league and top 9 in top 5 leagues)?


Or he is just good at everything in that one moment and then turns to shit (or not good enough level) for the rest of the game?
He’s a very good player, often great, sporadically world class. His biggest detriment to the team is his lack of consistency, his floors are too deep. I think his overall finishing is good even with challenges from range, I appreciate his free kicks, his athleticism is an obvious positive. Determination, strength, positives; will, positive. Defensive output, not that strong

When players have their weaknesses critiques, it’s often against their own positive attributes, their qualities. We’re not comparing him to some amateur, we’re saying his off the ball movement is shit compared to his finishing or some other attribute. We’re showing where he can improve based on what we already know about him.

Pedants get wrapped up overt emotive words they feel are overly harsh.
 

city-puma

Full Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
910
Location
NYC
This has to be a WUM, yes? White text?

You seriously think his incessant, head down charge into three opponents only to lose the ball is beneficial to our play? Guaranteed multiple unforced turnovers every game is a legitimate tactic? This is a positive for the team?

Come on, man.
If I remember correctly, he made three attempts of it, one led to pogba wrong footed shot, one resulted in a corner, and the other is a complete failure. Dribbling into the box to create situations is one of the important approaches to unlock a well organized defense. I don’t know why this is so difficult for you to understand. Greenwood tried also but normally around peripheral. Cavani is where every attack attempt from center failed right at when it was started.
I really feel sorry for you to not able to see the importance. You can criticize him not being more efficient in that regard, but our squad has no other able to do it. He took responsibility to give a try.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Full Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
1,182
Location
Norn Iron
I genuinely love that we are discussing a guy with so many goals and assists as being not good at moving or shooting. Honestly you would think he hadn't scored this season with some of this nonsense :lol:
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
10,500
Location
Florida
Quit watching football and start watching some other thing.

If he's as shite as you say then there's no way he'd been in PL's top most prodcutive attackers even without taking penalties.
I’m criticizing his off the ball movement. Such a criticism does not mean one thinks a player is completely shit. Stop with this absolutist hyperbole.

Y’all seriously need to be able to accept criticism of a player, this is insane.

I’ve said it multiple times, he’s a very good, often great, occasionally world class player, but he’s not immune from criticism. He has deficiencies in his game, some glaring. Most players do.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
10,500
Location
Florida
If I remember correctly, he made three attempts of it, one led to pogba wrong footed shot, one resulted in a corner, and the other is a complete failure. Dribbling into the box to create situations is one of the important approaches to unlock a well organized defense. I don’t know why this is so difficult for you to understand. Greenwood tried also but normally around peripheral. Cavani is where every attack attempt from center failed right at when it was started.
I really feel sorry for you to not able to see the importance. You can criticize him not being more efficient in that regard, but our squad has no other able to do it. He took responsibility to give a try.
Okay.
 

city-puma

Full Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
910
Location
NYC
I’m criticizing his off the ball movement. Such a criticism does not mean one thinks a player is completely shit. Stop with this absolutist hyperbole.

Y’all seriously need to be able to accept criticism of a player, this is insane.

I’ve said it multiple times, he’s a very good, often great, occasionally world class player, but he’s not immune from criticism. He has deficiencies in his game, some glaring. Most players do.
His physical condition is apparently not in a very good shape. However, even with that, I am afraid that you might understate his off ball movements. From TV, you don’t always see or notice how many runs he makes. I suggest you watch yesterday’s game again to make some objective observations in sense of how many different types of attempts he made, dribbling into box, long shot, cross, one-two in front of box, running to space, and etc... and at the same time, consider his physical condition and our upfront options.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,796
He’s a very good player, often great, sporadically world class. His biggest detriment to the team is his lack of consistency, his floors are too deep. I think his overall finishing is good even with challenges from range, I appreciate his free kicks, his athleticism is an obvious positive. Determination, strength, positives; will, positive. Defensive output, not that strong

When players have their weaknesses critiques, it’s often against their own positive attributes, their qualities. We’re not comparing him to some amateur, we’re saying his off the ball movement is shit compared to his finishing or some other attribute. We’re showing where he can improve based on what we already know about him.

Pedants get wrapped up overt emotive words they feel are overly harsh.
:lol: Good player with shit attributes and you think others are pedants. Going by you words, his dribbling, decision making, shooting, off the ball movement is all poor. Not sure how can a player contribute to much with so many poor attributes.

Everyone can take criticism, likewise everyone will challenge the posts that they think are not true too.
 

Desert Eagle

Punjabi Dude
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
10,950
I’m criticizing his off the ball movement. Such a criticism does not mean one thinks a player is completely shit. Stop with this absolutist hyperbole.

Y’all seriously need to be able to accept criticism of a player, this is insane.

I’ve said it multiple times, he’s a very good, often great, occasionally world class player, but he’s not immune from criticism. He has deficiencies in his game, some glaring. Most players do.
It's a cult like response to reasonable points you've made. Don't take it to heart. It's just a matter of standards. We are comparing Rashford to what he could be, these fanatics look at goal and assist numbers and that's all they need.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
48,582
It's a cult like response to reasonable points you've made. Don't take it to heart. It's just a matter of standards. We are comparing Rashford to what he could be, these fanatics look at goal and assist numbers and that's all they need.
"Cult".

Btw this genius said Bale was a better footballers than Rashford last year and other pearlers from June 2020.


Bale is a better footballer than rashford. I didn't say i'd have him over rashford in the current united team.

based on what?

lets see their performances over the course of next season and we can return to this.

another strawman. show me where i said he is just a fast baller.
Ironic. Just a bunch of meaningless statements.

Yes it's debatable. His goal ratio last year was one every 254 minutes. He wasn't eighteen then was he.

Strawman. Juan mata is a more inventive player than marcus rashford. You're welcome to debate it if you disagree.

What else does he excel at then since you only mentioned one thing?
 

Water Melon

before it dries out, eh
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,007
Location
garden bed
Rashford does indeed need to improve his vision and decision making. He often tries to dribble past 3-4 players and ends up losing posession. He also tends to demonstrate "tunnel vision" syndroms at times. He is at his best when he has to rely on his instincts in front of goal without having much time on his hands or when he is a bit further away from opposition goal having enough time to raise his head and then make a lovely cross to find his team-mate.
 

nokillingmoths

Full Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
6,048
Still think he has magic, but not consistency.

iMO he has dropped off his work rate which is more annoying to me than him losing the ball or not scoring 27 goals a game
I believe he is playing with an injury that needs surgery so that may explain a lack of work rate if the stats back that up, no idea if they do or not
 

Fridge chutney

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
6,685
Shocker... A 22 year old isn't amazing every match!

20 goals and 7 assists in all comps this season (7 assists in the league no less) is a fantastic return for a 22 year old.

Rashford is one of our best players by a country mile and one of the best players in his age group in the world.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,796
"Cult".

Btw this genius said Bale was a better footballers than Rashford last year and other pearlers from June 2020.
There are few who didn't rate him at all, now they are just having a go at him with "numbers are good but his problematic areas" nonsense :lol:
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
4,852
I’m criticizing his off the ball movement. Such a criticism does not mean one thinks a player is completely shit. Stop with this absolutist hyperbole.

Y’all seriously need to be able to accept criticism of a player, this is insane.

I’ve said it multiple times, he’s a very good, often great, occasionally world class player, but he’s not immune from criticism. He has deficiencies in his game, some glaring. Most players do.
The thing is Rashford doesn't play centrally to be running all over the pitch and behind the CB'S every chance he gets.

He is an inverted forward at LW that can either take on the opposing RB or make a run in behind him. Add to the fact that our one and only creative midfielder is Bruno - he isnt going to be playing throughballs past the fullbacks every chance he gets because 90% of the PL teams play low block defensive against us. It's why Rashford makes more runs behind the defence on the counterattack than when in on position.
 

Borys

Statistics Wizard
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
4,968
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
It is quite remarkable how poor he can be and yet score a goal in the same game. Actually he is a good "representation" of current United side, meaning we get a lot of results when the game is very tight.

I don't see a problem with Rashford criticism, he does a lot of silly things and has no standout ability. Overall he's pretty good and having his best season for us in terms of goalscoring so quite optimistic about the future.

But I still think Greenwood will be better than Rashford next season.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
48,582
There are few who didn't rate him at all, now they are just having a go at him with "numbers are good but his problematic areas" nonsense :lol:
Yeah if anybody thought Bale was a better footballer than Rashford in June 2020, then they should automatically be excluded from any discussion.