The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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FrankDrebin

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Jared Kusner,hahaha.
What a absolute joke and circus American politics are and I say that as someone who's very self-aware of our own countries shortcomings (which there is a fair few).
 

Raoul

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What's your evidence for this level optimism? What has Biden done that makes you seriously doubt a Biden DoJ wouldn't prosecute Trump?
Biden wouldn't have any say in the matter. These are routine oversight responsibilities that the House and Dem Senate have over the Executive, so all of the material that has been accumulated on Trump, but suppressed under Barr, would be presented to the new DOJ for action. At that point, there's zero chance a Dem DOJ doesn't act. All of this is above and beyond the problems Trump will face at the state level.
 
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Kentonio

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Biden wouldn't have any say in the matter. These are routine oversight responsibilities that the House and Dem Senate have over the Executive, so all of the material that has been accumulated on Trump, but suppressed under Barr, would be presented to the new DOJ for action. At that point, there's zero chance a Dem DOJ doesn't act. All of this is above and beyond the problems Trump will face at the state level,
Why do you assume the Dems in congress would push for it either? If there's no traction from the White house or congress then its not like the DoJ are going to suddenly go all crusade for justice. At least they've never shown any sign of that in the past. If that was the case then why did Bush and Cheney walk away scot free?
 

Organic Potatoes

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Why do you assume the Dems in congress would push for it either? If there's no traction from the White house or congress then its not like the DoJ are going to suddenly go all crusade for justice. At least they've never shown any sign of that in the past. If that was the case then why did Bush and Cheney walk away scot free?
Walk away from what?
 

Raoul

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Why do you assume the Dems in congress would push for it either? If there's no traction from the White house or congress then its not like the DoJ are going to suddenly go all crusade for justice. At least they've never shown any sign of that in the past. If that was the case then why did Bush and Cheney walk away scot free?
Trump is in a unique category from other previous Presidents in terms of the damage he has done to domestic institutions, as well as US power around the globe, so once he leaves office the knives will be out in full force, especially if the likes of Blumenthal and Schiff are running the show in Congress and someone like a Sally Yates and Preet Bhahara are running the DOJ and FBI respectively. The pressure to restore regular order will be immense.
 

Kentonio

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The pressure to restore regular order will be immense.
Exactly, regular order. As soon as they go after Trump, the Republicans will scream about it being vengeance and a breach of convention and blah blah blah, and the new president’s first term will get bogged down with it as it’ll dominate the media. There will be massive pressure on the president to just move on and focus on restoring normal government again.

As for Trump being ‘unique’, yes he is, but so was Bush at the time and it made no difference.
 

Raoul

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Exactly, regular order. As soon as they go after Trump, the Republicans will scream about it being vengeance and a breach of convention and blah blah blah, and the new president’s first term will get bogged down with it as it’ll dominate the media. There will be massive pressure on the president to just move on and focus on restoring normal government again.

As for Trump being ‘unique’, yes he is, but so was Bush at the time and it made no difference.
The President doesn't have a say in the matter. These are independent branches of government.
 

Kentonio

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The President doesn't have a say in the matter. These are independent branches of government.
The FBI are fairly independent but they still have to go through the DoJ, who certainly aren't independent. Or were you talking about congress?
 

Raoul

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The FBI are fairly independent but they still have to go through the DoJ, who certainly aren't independent. Or were you talking about congress?
The DOJ aren't the President's personal lawyers, they are there in an independent capacity to enforce the nation's laws as well, just like all the others (Trump & Barr's corruption notwithstanding). Any attempts by Biden to influence this process would itself be inappropriate, and be far more damaging to him than holding Trump accountable for his actions.
 
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Kentonio

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The DOJ aren't the President's personal lawyers, they are there in an independent capacity to enforce the nation's laws as well, just like all the others (Trump & Barr's corruption notwithstanding). Any attempts by Biden to influence this process would itself be inappropriate, and be far more damaging to him than anything else.
Come on now, that's never been anything other than a conceit. Remember Kennedy appointing his brother? Holder telling the press he was Obama's 'wingman'? The DoJ aren't independent, even if Barr is taking it to ridiculous extremes.
 

Raoul

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Come on now, that's never been anything other than a conceit. Remember Kennedy appointing his brother? Holder telling the press he was Obama's 'wingman'? The DoJ aren't independent, even if Barr is taking it to ridiculous extremes.
You can't conflate the norms of the present with those in the distant past. No politician (except Trump) would even attempt this sort of thing at this level. Obama for instance, went out of his way to not even be alone in the same room as Loretta Lynch to avoid any perception of impropriety.
 

Kentonio

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You can't conflate the norms of the present with those in the distant past. No politician (except Trump) would even attempt this sort of thing at this level. Obama for instance, went out of his way to not even be alone in the same room as Loretta Lynch to avoid any perception of impropriety.
Yeah, no disagreement from me that the others didn’t take it anywhere near this level, but I don’t believe for a second that the others had no pressure from above, even if it wasn’t directly communicated. The head of the DoJ is appointed directly by the president, it’s not independence when the guy can replace you at will.
 

Raoul

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Yeah, no disagreement from me that the others didn’t take it anywhere near this level, but I don’t believe for a second that the others had no pressure from above, even if it wasn’t directly communicated. The head of the DoJ is appointed directly by the president, it’s not independence when the guy can replace you at will.
He can replace the AG, but will of course be held accountable if its done out of corrupt intent. Which is why Trump's firing of Comey, when he was FBI director, will once again come under the microscope in future administrations.
 

Foxbatt

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The most powerful man is the potus. There are lots of grey areas and unless it's absolutely black and white and hitting in the face the DOJ and the Congress is not going to move.
Furthermore who says Biden is going to win? Who says the Dems will win the Congress and the senate?
For what is Trump going to be prosecuted for? It is no crime to be an imbecile. As for the US power around the globe, the gall of it.
 

Kentonio

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The most powerful man is the potus. There are lots of grey areas and unless it's absolutely black and white and hitting in the face the DOJ and the Congress is not going to move.
Furthermore who says Biden is going to win? Who says the Dems will win the Congress and the senate?
For what is Trump going to be prosecuted for? It is no crime to be an imbecile. As for the US power around the globe, the gall of it.
There are many, many things he could and should be prosecuted for. I actually agree with you re Biden though, unless the massive upcoming death toll turns opinion against Trump I expect him to win again.
 

Sphaero

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I agree mostly with your post. EU (Spain/Italy) is ahead in the curve compared to the US (heck, with a bit of luck, Italy is already in the second half of the curve). What I mean is that some people only check the deaths and see the US leading, so it is 'Gosh, the US is doing so bad'. When in fact, assuming that both Italy and Spain are at their peak, for the US to do as bad as them it needs to have around 5k deaths/day (Italy) to 7k deaths/day (Spain). We do not know if that is going to be the case or not, for example the US actually had fewer deaths today than yesterday, hopefully, because New York has peaked. I am under no illusions that the number is not going to increase, it will. However, my main point was that to say that the US is doing worse than most big EU countries, they need to actually have 5k+ and up to 10k deaths/day during the peak. Any exercise that does not take into consideration the size of the population is misleading.

I totally agree with Germany, they seem to be the one big country in Western Europe who is doing this a bit better (though it is still a bit early to judge). I still do not know why though? It might be that they are behind in the curve compared to Spain/Italy/France, with the number of infections being as high as those countries primarily because Germans are doing more testing. My hunch would be that Germany would suffer less than the other countries, but who knows these things. Sure as hell, I would have preferred to be in Munich instead of Santa Clara. Why did I change countries 3 months ago?!

PS: From the curve you posted, the UK and the US seem to be in worse shape than the other countries. The US, in particular, is incredibly hard to predict because of the size and because different states are behaving differently. Washington and California were hit first, but seem to have been doing much better now. New York is probably at the peak and hopefully will decline next week, but then you might expect other states like Florida or Georgia to start having massive fatalities. And then, you have states like Oklahama who are yet to issue a stay-at-home order, which means that they might peak quite later, maybe even in May. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the US has a lower peak when it comes to deaths (again, adjusted for population), but the peak to be longer than in the European countries.
Several reasons:

1. Luck: The first wave of infected people were largely tourists coming back, which had a realtively young median age, who could cope better with the sickness and give the doctors and health workers important experience how to handle Corvid and kept the mortality rate very low at first.

2. Solid Healthcare system, especially in terms of large scale treatment. High number of ICU beds per capita in general, widespread net of general doctors and little to no costs to actually visit them.

3. Far better and earlier prep work.

Especially the last point is where the blame for the Trump administration lies. It is argued that they had not that much more time than the European countries to prepare for the crisis but even with the same prep time they should have done a far better job. The fool in the White House was massively downplaying the threat just a few weeks ago. I have a friend who works for the German health department and they have been in alarm mode since Mid January. Since then preparations were done in earnest in terms of testing (development of a test kit, production of materials and machines to run the tests, scaling up personel in the labs), treatment (training of nurses and experienced med students in working with ventilators) and infrastructure (production of said ventilators, work in hospitals to seal off wards and free up ICU beds which were not absolutely needed, etc).

The red flags were there for the politicians to see, the experts showed them the signs, the Germans, Chancellor Merkel and Health Minister Spahn (who gets a far too worse rep right now IMO as his internal leadership of the department was pretty heavily praised from what I heard) at the front, acted, Trump and his cronies did not, which is a damn shame as the American Health sector, as much as it sucks for many patients, has a lot of ressources that could have given them the chance to properly prepare. Now they rather use the ressources to hijack already agreed transactions by other countries to get their hands on masks, but the Orange cnut showed many times that he sees no reason to honor treaties and contracts....


There is by the way also a central flaw in the argumentation that things look as dire in terms of cases because of large scale wide spread testing: mortality rate. Large scale testing actually pushes the mortality rate down as it catches many mild cases and also ones without any symptoms at all. This is why South Korea and Germany sat at such a low mortality rate for a while (0,4-0,5% at a around the time of the point of the curve where the US stands now) until it started to creep up to 1,3-1,5% right now. The US already sits at 2,5% and the peak is still a good deal off, which means that the number of severe cases is higher and the general number of cases probably a result of testing people who are already in worse conditions and not just because they had contact to an infected person or show mild symptoms.
 

Pexbo

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If this is what they think of the Captain, it’s surely not done Trump’s approval rating in the forces any good?
 

SteveJ

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Amazing that Trump reinstated a Navy SEAL war criminal, but allowed this guy to be removed from command.
I think - ironically, for someone who seems quite cowardly - he has a warped idea about what constitutes manly strength and decisiveness. That's, perhaps, why he champions the morally-wrong type of military person; he's living vicariously through others' ruthlessness and idealises himself as the same (doing deals and dismissing critics are his substitutes for killing opponents)...if he wasn't so busy doing manly things like being the biggest boss of them all. *cue Hail to the Chief* He's an outdated cliché of masculinity.
 

Carolina Red

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I think - ironically, for someone who seems quite cowardly - he has a warped idea about what constitutes manly strength and decisiveness. That's, perhaps, why he champions the morally-wrong type of military person; he's living vicariously through others' ruthlessness and idealises himself as the same...if he wasn't so busy doing manly things like being the biggest boss of them all. *cue Hail to the Chief* He's an outdated cliché of masculinity.
I believe you are spot on here, for what it's worth.
 

SteveJ

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I believe you are spot on here, for what it's worth.
It likely reads as very pseudy - and it probably is amateurish cod-psychology - but I honestly believe this is how he squares supporting obviously disreputable sheriffs, soldiers and the like: he's too afraid to actually do their jobs but is so egotistical that he thinks he he should be viewed as equally macho nonetheless.
 

do.ob

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Amazing that Trump reinstated a Navy SEAL war criminal, but allowed this guy to be removed from command.
I think - ironically, for someone who seems quite cowardly - he has a warped idea about what constitutes manly strength and decisiveness. That's, perhaps, why he champions the morally-wrong type of military person; he's living vicariously through others' ruthlessness and idealises himself as the same (doing deals and dismissing critics are his substitutes for killing opponents)...if he wasn't so busy doing manly things like being the biggest boss of them all. *cue Hail to the Chief* He's an outdated cliché of masculinity.
I don't think it's that surprising, it fits nicely into fascist/authoritarian logic. War criminal killed foreigners/muslims = "good", Crozier showed civil courage, going against American authorities = "bad". I also don't think you need to go into armchair psychology to explain this. Trump preaches (and acts according to) "America first, feck everyone else", not caring about whether American soldiers overstep is just an extension of that.
 
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