The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Revan

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Assuming that Biden wins in November (fingers crossed), what do the American posters in here think about the electoral system? Do you expect that the democrats, once they are in charge again, will finally adjust it?

I mean, if anything, Trump's term shows that many democratic mechanisms in the system didn't work as expected. He effectively circumvented the division of powers multiple times, the impeachment was hopeless because his fellow republicans in the remaining institutions protected him out of self interest und the inofficial fourth power in form of the media looked completely toothless since his voters don't really care too much about the truth. I'm obviously living on the other side of the world but it seems to me that the criticism of the constitution gained traction in recent years. May it be the thing with the electoral college, the two party system or the "the winners takes it all" concept in elections, I've the feeling more and more people are complaining about this stuff. Just recently, there was a Patriot Act episode about the system, exemplarily.
You need a constitutional change, voted by 3/4 of the states. It is not that the Democrats don't want to change the electoral system, but that they cannot change it without winning 38 states.

Giving statehood to DC and Puerto Rico could be easier and can be done by an act of congress (instead of countries voting about it), but that likely won't pass in the supreme court.

So no, I do not expect much to change.
 

Revan

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I don't think DC should be a state. It should be folded back into Maryland like Arlington was to Virginia. The constitution mandated a federal zone for government, I'm guessing to prevent one state from hosting it (@Carolina Red ...help?), so making DC a state contravenes this. Puerto Rico (and Guam, US Virgin Islands, US Minor Outlying Islands, American Samoa and Northern Mariana Islands) is a different situation. Each of them should be considered for statehood.
This is a fair point, but I don't think the founders really expected DC to become a 1 million people city. It is already bigger than a couple of federal states.

The solution you are proposing is okay IMO, as is giving statehood to it, but keeping the center (White House, congress) under federal level. More concerning is the situation on Puerto Rico though, it should definitely get statehood. The others, too small for that.
 

Revan

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What does granting statehood have to do with the supreme court?
GOP will claim it to be unconstitutional, and say that it can be done only if the states agree. GOP judges will agree with that.
 

WI_Red

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This is a fair point, but I don't think the founders really expected DC to become a 1 million people city. It is already bigger than a couple of federal states.

The solution you are proposing is okay IMO, as is giving statehood to it, but keeping the center (White House, congress) under federal level. More concerning is the situation on Puerto Rico though, it should definitely get statehood. The others, too small for that.
Totally agree with the first part, except that I dont think turning DC into essentially a city-state is the solution.There is precedent for folding DC back into Maryland. DC was originally formed by land donations from Maryland (what is now DC) and Virginia (what is now the DC suburb of Alexandria). Some time in the 1800s the Virginia land was ceded back to Virginia. No reason that could not be done with DC and, like @Carolina Red suggested, the federal buildings become a strip of federal land.

I agree with PR becoming a state. It’s size and proximity make it a no brained (unless you are a republican). The others are tough as they have the same status I think as PR, so to make PR a state would set a precedent.
 

Sky1981

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Even if Dem wins majority there's nothing groundbreaking they can do, if there is the Reps would have done it or would just redo it the next time they win the election (which they again somehow will in the future)
 

WI_Red

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GOP will claim it to be unconstitutional, and say that it can be done only if the states agree. GOP judges will agree with that.
But that does not matter. The precedent for admission of new states is pretty well established. If congress agrees to admission and the president signs off it happens. States only have a say if the new stars is being formed from existing states.

As a side note. I heard a podcast on the unique situation of Texas. Apparently part of their agreement to join the union gave Texas the power to break itself up into as many states as they wanted.
 

calodo2003

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You think so?

Who's gonna go after him?

He's got a wall of Rs protecting him, he goes down they all goes down. Half of American is Republicans, you'd think they want one of them crucified and they'll just stand around and do nothing? At this rate they're already at accomplice level at the very least.
NY state will go after him in a heartbeat once he is out of office. Far too much there, there.
 

Sky1981

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NY state will go after him in a heartbeat once he is out of office. Far too much there, there.
They have a Written Admission of Guilt from Flynn, yet they simply let him go, snap... just like that.

Plus I don't think Americans are crazy enough to jail their ex-president, it'll simply never happened. He'll be brushed behind the carpet, probably given "mental drugs" to keep him sedated.
 

calodo2003

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They have a Written Admission of Guilt from Flynn, yet they simply let him go, snap... just like that.

Plus I don't think Americans are crazy enough to jail their ex-president, it'll simply never happened. He'll be brushed behind the carpet, probably given "mental drugs" to keep him sedated.
We’ve never been here before, though. There needs to be consequences & NY state will go forward with indictments, even if it is just for political reasons NY is firmly blue & could do this without political fallout.
Flynn‘s case is one of a corrupt DOJ & how the courts are being ruined by Trump appointees.
 

langster

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Wow! Just watch the entire threads videos. Trump is so deflated compared to his usual bombastic self. He seems tired, deflated, unenthusiastic and at times off his face. He slurs his way through and mispronounces words way more than usual.

The kicker is the crowd seems to be extremely subdued compared to normal. They are definitely picking up the vibe from their cult leader. Or have they just learned he has no message? Nothing really to say, just that he says what he thinks they want to hear?

He's definitely down, but is he out yet?
 

KirkDuyt

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:lol:

Possibly the greatest Tweet of all time?
As long as they don't build and pay for a wall this is great.. On the other hand, maybe the Mexican president also promised a bordeer wall and said America will pay for it. MMGA
 

SirAF

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Wow! Just watch the entire threads videos. Trump is so deflated compared to his usual bombastic self. He seems tired, deflated, unenthusiastic and at times off his face. He slurs his way through and mispronounces words way more than usual.

The kicker is the crowd seems to be extremely subdued compared to normal. They are definitely picking up the vibe from their cult leader. Or have they just learned he has no message? Nothing really to say, just that he says what he thinks they want to hear?

He's definitely down, but is he out yet?
Certainly lends credence to reports that Trump is «down in the dumps».
 

WPMUFC

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Like clockwork
There's already been an attempt to rehabilitate Bush. How much longer till Cheney gets the "well he wasn't as bad as trump" treatment from hysterical democrats that now seem to think the best way to fight trump is not on policy, but to re-imagine history into a new narrative so Trump looks like an abboration and not just a continuation of conservative ideology?
 

calodo2003

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Wow! Just watch the entire threads videos. Trump is so deflated compared to his usual bombastic self. He seems tired, deflated, unenthusiastic and at times off his face. He slurs his way through and mispronounces words way more than usual.

The kicker is the crowd seems to be extremely subdued compared to normal. They are definitely picking up the vibe from their cult leader. Or have they just learned he has no message? Nothing really to say, just that he says what he thinks they want to hear?

He's definitely down, but is he out yet?
Wonder what his walk into the WH from Marine One looked like tonight.
 

Zehner

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None of the smaller states are going to just relinquish their power by removing the electoral college. I am afraid that's what America is stuck with for at least half a century.
There's no way to overhaul the Electoral college without winning 3/4 of the House and Senate and 3/4 of the state legislatures. Until a Republican loses the White House while winning the popular vote, Republicans won't support changing the Electoral College. For them, they have a structural advantage in the Senate and Electoral College that gives them more power based on their strength in rural states that is unlikely to change. There's the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact that is intended to provide a workaround to the Electoral College by getting enough states to agree to support the popular vote winner, regardless of the results in their state. Even if this were to pass in enough states to be successful, it would face legal challenges.

If Democrats can make progress in NC, Georgia, and Texas, the issues with the Electoral College will be less of a concern. The larger concern is the imbalance of the Senate. The six senators from California, Texas, and New York represent the same number of people as 62 senators representing smaller states. One step towards remedying it would be adding DC and Puerto Rico as states.
You need a constitutional change, voted by 3/4 of the states. It is not that the Democrats don't want to change the electoral system, but that they cannot change it without winning 38 states.

Giving statehood to DC and Puerto Rico could be easier and can be done by an act of congress (instead of countries voting about it), but that likely won't pass in the supreme court.

So no, I do not expect much to change.

Thanks for the insights, really interesting. Kind of sad that the system seems to be there to stay for at least a long while. Would've thought that the systemic flaws that ultimately led to Trump would get a higher priority since it's in the democrats best interest to prevent something like the last four years from happening again but I understand that it seems rather unlikely that they a) get all the necessary majorities and b) prioritize it over seemingly more urgent short term topics.
 

SteveJ

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The Hill said:
President Trump: "Our children are taught in school to hate their own country."
Riiiiight.
 

SteveJ

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Decades of pledges of allegiance, and star-spangled majorettes marching at the drop of a hat, and all the while those kids were being taught to hate the USA. Incredible subterfuge.
 

WI_Red

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By that I'm assuming he means schools teach more than "murica was created by jebus for white straight conservative men"?
There are honestly parts of our history we should hate. Like slavery, internment camps, systemic racism, jim crow, disco, trail of tears, etc.
 

GiddyUp

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There are honestly parts of our history we should hate. Like slavery, internment camps, systemic racism, jim crow, disco, trail of tears, etc.
I remember last summer at a wedding we were shooting the breeze and the subject of American history was brought up. Of course we were all in agreement when these points were discussed but one of the guys wives came over and when she realized what we were talking about she covered her ears and stamped her feet like a child. She didn't want to hear any of it and thought we should only regale each other about the good things. I found out later that she was a retired teacher.
 

WI_Red

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I remember last summer at a wedding we were shooting the breeze and the subject of American history was brought up. Of course we were all in agreement when these points were discussed but one of the guys wives came over and when she realized what we were talking about she covered her ears and stamped her feet like a child. She didn't want to hear any of it and thought we should only regale each other about the good things. I found out later that she was a retired teacher.
Checks memories of AP US History....... yep, this tracks.


The amount of bad shit from America's past I have learned in my old age from reading and podcasts (The Dollup in paricular. Amazing history podcast by two commedians. They do mostly American history but also European/Australian when they do live shows abroad) constantly blows my mind. Almost none of it was covered in HS or college.
 
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