The U.S. and Israel attack Iran

2cents said:
If this is true and sincere (big assumption) then it reads like Iran conceding the leverage they were trying to establish in the Persian Gulf. The US and particularly Israel are not dependent on the Persian Gulf, how much Israeli shipping do you reckon goes through there anyway?
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My biggest surprise is that apparently US/Israel even has its own tanker ships.

Given the disaster that is the Jones Act in the modern day, and the complete destruction of commercial shipbuilding capacity due to lack of competitiveness, I am incredibly surprised many if any are crossing Hormuz.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Dont think Starmer has the balls to say that
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No. Neither does Merz or von der Leyen. Sanchez, the Swiss government and maybe Macron if we are very lucky. Would be lovely if Macron publicly went against Pedo Mango, but I won't hold my breath.
 
tenpoless said:
I think I saw a video somewhere, probably before this war started where Hegseth had to answer multiple questions including if he cheated on his wife right after his daughter was born (think he has like 3 wives) and he brought God and The Bible into his answers. There was also talks about Hegseth found drunk in a bar and shouted "kill all moslems".

How did such a person become secretary of war? can't even manage his own family and you want him to manage wars?
Trump brought in all the other wronguns just like him. Birds of same feathers flock together.
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Was listening to a female Journalist on Zeteo, Mehdi Hasan show and she said when she interviewed him you could smell the whiskey. The mannerisms suggested he has an alcohol issue.
 
langster said:
CNN just reported Iran says all countries ships have safe passage through the Strait of Hormuz EXCEPT Israeli and US vessels.
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Didn't they add and ships of US allies?
If so the big question is, which countries does Iran consider as US allies?

Once again (Liberation Day) the orange imbecile causes havoc in the economy and financial markets.
Only that this time they isn't an easy way out (TACO) as you need 3 to tango.
 
Spoony said:
Protests in Israel?
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Hard to say much for certain about the video you’ve posted above with no context. However given the protesters’ attire it’s probable that the protest is directed against conscription of the ultra-orthodox/haridim, a long-running source of tension in Israeli society. Also, most of those protesting perhaps wouldn’t necessarily define themselves as Zionists.
 
Trump said the last thing they wanted was help from Ukraine/Zelensky, so, if Iranian drones is becoming an increasing problem, well, then it is what it is.
 
tenpoless said:
I think I saw a video somewhere, probably before this war started where Hegseth had to answer multiple questions including if he cheated on his wife right after his daughter was born (think he has like 3 wives) and he brought God and The Bible into his answers. There was also talks about Hegseth found drunk in a bar and shouted "kill all moslems".

How did such a person become secretary of war? can't even manage his own family and you want him to manage wars?
Trump brought in all the other wronguns just like him. Birds of same feathers flock together.
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He praised Trump a lot on TV.
 
Beans said:
Doesn’t sound like the US is going to accept any help from Ukraine on defensive drone technology.

I wonder if Middle East allies feel the same.

“The “last person we need help from is Zelensky,” Trump told Welker.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...mp-zelensky-drones-iran-ukraine-b2938842.html

Sounds like he’d prefer help from Putin.
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I doubt the Ukrainians have any technology available that the US don't already have access to in terms of drones, although some of the regional countries like Saudi and the UAE could obviously benefit from collaborating with Ukraine. At the end of the day, drones are a tough nut to crack because there are too many of them and some are going to get through from time to time.
 
Raoul said:
I doubt the Ukrainians have any technology available that the US don't already have access to in terms of drones, although some of the regional countries like Saudi and the UAE could obviously benefit from collaborating with Ukraine. At the end of the day, drones are a tough nut to crack because there are too many of them and some are going to get through from time to time.
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Are you kidding?

Ukraine are by far the world expert in drone technology, their software and operators are far better than anyone else’s.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidk...kraines-drone-defense-ecosystem-is-in-demand/

Ukraine has commented that drone tech has to be updated every 6 weeks or so, because Russian advances renders them useless.

How far behind that curve is the US?
 
Beans said:
Are you kidding?

Ukraine are by far the world expert in drone technology, their software and operators are far better than anyone else’s.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidk...kraines-drone-defense-ecosystem-is-in-demand/
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The technology itself isn't unavailable to the US, which was my point. They have plenty of experience over the past 3 or 4 years, but that's not going to be an instant game changer for the US since the US has far better technology to shoot things down and the nature of this conflict is probably far shorter than Russia/Ukraine. Trump is already attempting to look for an offramp that doesn't make him look like he's capitulating in weakness, so I wouldn't expect this to go on for that much longer.
 
Beans said:
Are you kidding?

Ukraine are by far the world expert in drone technology, their software and operators are far better than anyone else’s.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidk...kraines-drone-defense-ecosystem-is-in-demand/

Ukraine has commented that drone tech has to be updated every 6 weeks or so, because Russian advances renders them useless.

How far behind that curve is the US?
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I mean, @Raoul isn't wrong.

The solution that Ukraine provides just won't work for the US military.

The US military cannot get thousands of people all working on the mechanisms that Ukraine does. Ukraine's Army is twice the size of USA's, covering a single frontline whereas US Army is spread out over 6 continents.

US will deal with this with a high tech approach whereas Ukraine will do this with a high volume approach.

If you're talking top of the range anti-drone platforms, Ukraine don't have anything close to what USA has. We're at a weird time where US's main anti drone platforms aren't in enough numbers yet where DoD feels comfortable risking them abroad hence they're all in US states.

https://www.twz.com/thor-microwave-anti-drone-system-downs-swarms-in-test

It's different solutions, for different problems, by different forces with different needs. Apples and Oranges.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I mean, @Raoul isn't wrong.

The solution that Ukraine provides just won't work for the US military.

The US military cannot get thousands of people all working on the mechanisms that Ukraine does. Ukraine's Army is twice the size of USA's, covering a single frontline whereas US Army is spread out over 6 continents.

US will deal with this with a high tech approach whereas Ukraine will do this with a high volume approach.

If you're talking top of the range anti-drone platforms, Ukraine don't have anything close to what USA has. We're at a weird time where US's main anti drone platforms aren't in enough numbers yet where DoD feels comfortable risking them abroad hence they're all in US states.

https://www.twz.com/thor-microwave-anti-drone-system-downs-swarms-in-test

It's different solutions, for different problems, by different forces with different needs. Apples and Oranges.
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I'm not sure US allies in the middle east are gonna wait around for this expensive, high tech solution to cheap drones. I'd work directly with Ukraine.

I don't agree the US doesn't have the manpower to manufacture as many defensive drones as Ukraine, that it can't train enough drone pilots, military or otherwise, or software engineers. Not many places with better software engineers then the US.

Why do you think the US can't handle it, besides those bad reasons?

Obviously the US had three biggest, most expensive and "impressive" drones. But that's the problem, isn't it?
 
Raoul said:
The technology itself isn't unavailable to the US, which was my point. They have plenty of experience over the past 3 or 4 years, but that's not going to be an instant game changer for the US since the US has far better technology to shoot things down and the nature of this conflict is probably far shorter than Russia/Ukraine. Trump is already attempting to look for an offramp that doesn't make him look like he's capitulating in weakness, so I wouldn't expect this to go on for that much longer.
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But Ukraine do have technology the US don't have. I'm sure the US could quickly manufacture a Ukrainian defensive drone, and it's software system. But they don't have them, not the ones Ukraine has developed.

But it's classified so I guess we don't really know.
 
Raoul said:
The technology itself isn't unavailable to the US, which was my point. They have plenty of experience over the past 3 or 4 years, but that's not going to be an instant game changer for the US since the US has far better technology to shoot things down and the nature of this conflict is probably far shorter than Russia/Ukraine. Trump is already attempting to look for an offramp that doesn't make him look like he's capitulating in weakness, so I wouldn't expect this to go on for that much longer.
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"The adaptation and countermeasure cycle has accelerated to the point where drone and weapons systems can be rendered obsolete in days or weeks rather than months."

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/four-years-after-russias-invasion-ukraine-has-become-a-steel-porcupine#:~:text=In fact, 96 percent of,or weeks rather than months.

This is what the US doesn't have, the solutions to the solutions the Russians have already developed.

The US needs to set up a defensive drone network system around every crucial asset in the Middle East, if they're going to keep attacking Iran, now or in the future.

Also: Ukraine tried to help months ago

https://www.axios.com/2026/03/10/us-ukraine-anti-drone-offer (paywall)
https://www.politico.eu/article/us-...e-volodymyr-zelenskyy-drone-help-middle-east/
 
RedDevil@84 said:
No chance. Merz doesn't have the balls to say no to BIbi and Starmer doesn't have the balls to say no to Trump.
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Starmer has already said no to him hence Trump losing his shit and slagging him off all over the news and social media.

Wether he will do it again is another question but I've got more faith he will than if we had the likes of Farage, Lowe, Cruella or Kemi in charge.
 
Also like to add that
Beans said:
I'm not sure US allies in the middle east are gonna wait around for this expensive, high tech solution to cheap drones. I'd work directly with Ukraine.

I don't agree the US doesn't have the manpower to manufacture as many defensive drones as Ukraine, that it can't train enough drone pilots, military or otherwise, or software engineers. Not many places with better software engineers then the US.

Why do you think the US can't handle it, besides those bad reasons?

Obviously the US had three biggest, most expensive and "impressive" drones. But that's the problem, isn't it?
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I wasn't referring to manufacturing or software engineering, the problem is people.

US military is all geared towards rapid deployment, forward operations and projection of assets.

Ukraine's solution works because its frontline is concentrated to a few areas, it's right by home and it's in a war draft phase.

Ukrainian drone force operators are around 70,000 men. That's almost the size of an entire branch for the US, it's the same size as the entire British army.

US has to cover 6 continents, all thousands if not 10s of thousands of miles away from home. Let's take your suggested model of 1:1 system that Ukraine uses. The cost of tens of thousands of drone operators operating abroad just isn't realistic with the budget. That's not to mention DoD is already having a tough time meeting recruitment targets, where are you going to find 70,000 men from?! (That's also being very generous given the relatively larger scale of operations US military has to deal with).

It's also just not cost effective for developed countries with high personnel costs to do this kind of strategy.

Since the 80s US doctrine has always focused on high concentration of firepower that requires less people. That's why something like the MQ-9 reaper exists. Because one person has enough firepower to compensate for 50 enemies firepower.

Everything from it's land forces to air forces to navy has been distributed from high quantity low firepower density to low quantity high density.

Your solution would make sense if US had a draft or a population that was itching to sign up to the military with a 2 trillion defense budget. Alas it does not. In the real world there would have to be huge trade offs involved with implementing something like this and it isn't worth it.

If Ukraine's solution was automated that would be another matter entirely, but it is not
 
Beans said:
But Ukraine do have technology the US don't have. I'm sure the US could quickly manufacture a Ukrainian defensive drone, and it's software system. But they don't have them, not the ones Ukraine has developed.

But it's classified so I guess we don't really know.
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Highly unlikely. Most of their rag tag anti-drone game consists of COTS being run by soldiers with civilian IT backgrounds. Its been a marginally effective response that works for what they need in their situation. If they can help the Emiratis, Saudis, Qataris, and others then great. But its not going to be a game changer for the US because it is focusing on pounding Iranian military targets, infrastructure, and other sites that can actually produce and launch the drones and missiles.
 
To give you more context, the cost of deploying a single brigade abroad is around 1.3 billion USD. Adding in indirect costs like lifetime of infrastructure etc it's closer to 3 billion.

What you are suggesting is deploying something close to 20 brigades worth of anti drone personnel. It just isn't viable.
 
Raoul said:
Highly unlikely. Most of their rag tag anti-drone game consists of COTS being run by soldiers with civilian IT backgrounds. Its been a marginally effective response that works for what they need in their situation. If they can help the Emiratis, Saudis, Qataris, and others then great. But its not going to be a game changer for the US because it is focusing on pounding Iranian military targets, infrastructure, and other sites that can actually produce and launch the drones and missiles.
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Yeah what Ukraine is doing is highly commendable and really effective given the lack of resources and technology but it really doesn't scale well to militaries that have far more avenues.

It boils down to essentially some cobbled together FPV drones with some small explosives on them wired with optical cable and some basic tracking abilities in its software. Manned by a guy with a remote control.

Imagine trying to do this in the Pacific...would be suicidal
 
Amir said:
There were some miniscule ones. They don't move the needle in any way.
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Im not going to ask you to confirm or deny as I understand there are strict penalties for anyone giving out information about what's happening in Israel.

I'm hearing from journalists and public that the situation in Israel is pretty bad at the moment. Constant sirens and bombardment, people tired and not getting any sleep. Having to run to bunkers/safe rooms constantly. Missiles and debris getting through. Thousands injured and some deaths too.

One journalist, speaking to Mehdi Hassan, said he was receiving sporadic updates from someone in Israel in a bunker when internet etc allows.

Main thing, for me , that has come out is how "strong" hezbollah seem to be considering reports of their somewhat demise with the targeted taking out of certain leaders etc. Their missiles seem to be constant and doing damage apparently.

Obviously non of this is verified by mainstream media but then that's not really a surprise with their obvious bias and the blackout in place.
 
captain of Iranian woman’s team withdrew asylum request as her family went missing.
 
maniak said:
Knowing the iranian regime, I have no doubt this happened.

That site, however, is just anti-iran propaganda, so you should be careful about using it as a source.
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Thanks for the heads up. Is it anti Iran, or anti regime? The author of the article is purportedly Iranian.
 
owlo said:
Thanks for the heads up. Is it anti Iran, or anti regime? The author of the article is purportedly Iranian.
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I've read (I think in the guardian, can't remember 100%) they are mostly backed my KSA, so I don't know if it's just a regime thing or some religious differences are also involved, but I'd guess it's mostly anti-regime.
 
maniak said:
I've read (I think in the guardian, can't remember 100%) they are mostly backed my KSA, so I don't know if it's just a regime thing or some religious differences are also involved, but I'd guess it's mostly anti-regime.
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They promote Reza Pehlavi are as you've pointed funded by Saudi.
 
maniak said:
I've read (I think in the guardian, can't remember 100%) they are mostly backed my KSA, so I don't know if it's just a regime thing or some religious differences are also involved, but I'd guess it's mostly anti-regime.
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May not be a fair comparison, but I'd say I'm anti Israel regime, anti Russian regime, and anti US regime (term: regime used loosely of course), but I'm neither anti US, Russia, or Israel in principle.

I think being 'anti regime' is a fair perspective for a publication to take, though obviously not everybody agrees.
 
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