The UK is "different" to Europe...but is it "better"?

[Classical Mechanic]

I agree with Glaston, this is exactly how it is. And I'm not sold on the "England is efficient" thing, either. Other countries are more bureaucratic, but when you've worked through that things actually happen.

We had a heavy snowfall yesterday afternoon, by early evening the snowploughs were out. This is in a village, not a big city, on a Sunday evening. Can you ever see that happening in a town in England?

I think the truth is that the UK somewhere in between the two so you can see it either way that you want depending on your bias.

Most of the political thinkers and philosphers that shaped America were British and those ideas are still pervasive in our politics at a significant level. Guys like Daniel Hannan, Nigel Farage and even Boris to a lesser extent are libertarians. We do have a significant part of the population that is Europhilic neo-liberal but then again we probably have a more significant purely socialist faction than most countries in Europe, certainly than in America.

I also think it would be impossible to argue that European popular culture has anywhere near the influence that American popular culture has in the UK. Nearly all our cultural influence in that regard is Anglophonic.

 

[Arruda]

We have amber. It’s the sequence that’s different. The different sequences reflect our differing mentalities.

Our lights go from green to amber to red. Basically saying “Take it handy there. The light’s about to change. Don’t want you to slam the breaks on. Slow yourself down a wee bit. Good man.” Yours go from red to amber to green. “QUICK! Get ready to go! You’re going to delay EVERYONE! Come on! Get into gear! Move it!”

Is this true? What sense does that make? It goes from green to red?

Here you're infracting if you pass a red light. It's objective, and when it happens it's because you took too great a risk on the amber.

How do you avoid that ever happening when it goes from green to red? Do authorities take a subjective assessment on whether you toom a red because you couldn't brake safely?

 

[11101]

Completely disagree. I lived in the USA for 2 years - and have spent a fair amount of time in various European countries.

It's the commonality of language - English - that gives the illusion of cultural closeness with Americans, but in reality we have far more in common with the rest of Europe. This commonality ranges from a more or less shared consensus about the importance of social welfare systems - including healthcare - to a shared recent history of wars being waged on and across our own lands. It also includes a consensus that allowing large numbers of private citizens to own guns is a crazy idea, and that rationality and science should inform policy.

In Europe, by and large, you simply don't see the vast number of religious evangelical nutcases and other assorted crazies that live in the USA. And for all the racism that still exists in Europe, I would say it pales in comparison to the scale of racism that exists in the USA. European societies are comparatively
more integrated and cohesive than that of America, which is an incredibly divided society.

Fair enough as I have only travelled to the USA, never lived there. The UK is most definitely a stand alone place outside the homogeneous-ness of Europe though, and i will entertain no arguments that it isn't lurching further towards the US as each day passes.

 

[Ecstatic]

@Brwned - Very interesting thread

 

[Ecstatic]

Without reading a single post in the thread: I know that some of my fellow Scandinavians view the UK as "The United States of Europe"

Fair enough as I have only travelled to the USA, never lived there. The UK is most definitely a stand alone place outside the homogeneous-ness of Europe though, and i will entertain no arguments that it isn't lurching further towards the US as each day passes.

I agree. Maybe the USA today is the UK of tomorrow.

I think the truth is that the UK somewhere in between the two so you can see it either way that you want depending on your bias.

Most of the political thinkers and philosphers that shaped America were British and those ideas are still pervasive in our politics at a significant level. Guys like Daniel Hannan, Nigel Farage and even Boris to a lesser extent are libertarians. We do have a significant part of the population that is Europhilic neo-liberal but then again we probably have a more significant purely socialist faction than most countries in Europe, certainly than in America.

I also think it would be impossible to argue that European popular culture has anywhere near the influence that American popular culture has in the UK. Nearly all our cultural influence in that regard is Anglophonic.

Yes.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I would say the UK was more influenced by the USA in the fifties and sixties and swung more towards Europe from the 70s till now with people being able to travel abroad more and experiencing European culture. which few had done before.
Where it goes now is anyone's guess.

 

[Ecstatic]

Weather

If only because of the weather! Uk and Ireland genuinely seem to have the shittest weather of any country I’ve ever visited. Not reliably warm and sunny in summer for a local beach/lake holiday, nor cold enough in winter to go skiing. 12 months of meh. It’s brutal.

I'd argue though that our mild climate means we never get the crazy modern extremes that other European countries get. These regular 40+ degree heatwaves we see every summer now. Absolutely brutal. And -15 in winter? Yeah, no thanks.

Also as someone who's spent dry season in SE Asia before, oh dear Christ give me our shitty weather any day of the week over that humid, dry, sticky 40 degree heat. Horrible!

I think the main problem with our weather here is the unpredictably of it, you can never reliably plan ahead for a day out or camping or whatever well in advance, which is probably why we all spend so much time getting pissed in the pub!

I loved the weather in Northern California though when I was there. Think there was heavy rain once in maybe two months and other than that it was generally sunny and a nice 25-30 degree heat with a good breeze. Then you've a quick(ish) drive up to Tahoe where you have ski resorts galore. Lovely stuff. Still, they're also going through a terrible drought and there's constant water preservation going on.

You raise some key points about the weather in the UK:
- very very unpredictable weather in a single day especially in 2019: could be sunny in the morning, raining in the afternoon and cold in the evening
- in some years, there is not a consistent and proper summer: I get the 12 months of meh

And yeah , in some Asian locations, the weather is worst.

In France, there is always a proper summer:
- in some years it can start in March and end in July
- in other years: it starts in May and ends in September

 

[OleBoiii]

From a Scandinavian perspective(I know that some of these would be relevant for other European countries as well), the UK and the US have certain things in common:

1. High rates of obesity.
2. English speaking(duh).
3. Very divided in terms of politics.
4. The foods associated with the country are typically unhealthy or disgusting(or both).
5. A clear difference between classes. The ones at the bottom have pretty poor life quality by OECD standards. Social mobility is not that good.
6. Workplaces quite rigid and hierarchical.
7. CEOs earn an obscene amount of money.
8. Politics an absolute circus in both countries.
9. Generally a more "capitalistic spirit" than in the rest of Europe.

There are more differences than similarities I guess, but I can understand why some Europeans think of the UK as "The United States of Europe". Brexit, Boris Johnson and the child poverty issues raised by profiles like Rashford have only strengthened these impressions.

 

[Ecstatic]

I completely agree with you. I’m a permanent resident of Canada now and have no desire to go back to the UK. I really don’t enjoy the culture and like you say, there’s a selfish individualism to the UK now. Very little community spirit. We saw this in March when everyone stripped supermarket shelves bare leaving the elderly and vulnerable (and some healthcare workers) with nothing. Im not a big fan of the binge drinking culture either.

I can only compare with England, as I've never lived in Scotland, Wales or NI. I don't like the way England has changed in my lifetime. It seems harder, more selfish, less caring. Part of that is due to the policies of various governments over the years, part of it is probably replicated in other countries. I know it's all intangible stuff to an extent, but it's happened.

This a global trend. Rise of individualism vs fall of collectivism.

I don't find that here in Italy, for whatever reason. Maybe it's because things move slowly here in general. I used to feel happy about being English, now I have no interest in being English, British or anything to do with it, really. If I could become Italian I'd do it in a flash.

Countries like Italy and France are more conservative countries. Things change slowly. As you know, you will find Italians living in the South who would explain you that Italians of the North are more Swiss than Italian. By the way I thought you were Italian.

That is quite simple really. There are numerous things I am proud of, including but not exclusively:
Our music, particularly rock.
Our sportsmen and sports women who constantly perform at the very highest level.
Our fantastic countryside.
Our overachieving economy.
Our scientists and engineers who produce world leading products.
And our sense of fair play.
Having said that, there are many other things I am not particularly proud of.
But on balance, there are more positive than negative things.

The famous British pride with leading, fantastic ,overachieving and world-beating achievements

That's why I say it got nothing to do with race. Let's not confuse England pre 1970 and post 1970. Things are changing fast.

How would you describe the change?

UK also has shit weather and mental health compared to most of Europe.

What makes you think the mental health is better outside the UK? If I listen to BBC Radio 5 Live, I only hear depressed people

Comparing different countries in order to say which one is "better" sounds very American.

Very American and British. Capitalism promotes competition. Applied to a British football forum, a lot of threads about who is the best, the better, the greatest in the history, the worst, X vs. Y, why W is better than us...

 

[Ecstatic]

The UK is about as good as any other European country really although the one thing it has going for it is London and the financial services industry in which it is a world leader. Outside of London though the UK is not so rosy at all and probably doesn't compare very well to many of the leading European countries.
UK also has shit weather and mental health compared to most of Europe.

Come on, this is nonsense. You really think that outside of London there is no where that you can enjoy a good quality of life!? I'd argue that there are scores of places that are much much better to live than London. Admittedly it depends on what you are looking for in life. No doubt there is a higher level of social deprivation in our poorest areas compared to some European countries but there are lots of nice places to live outside of the capital.

Odd translation. I don't think you disagree with each other.

 

[Ecstatic]

Seems pretty illogical to compare the UK to the whole of Europe. Northern European countries are completing different to southern.

Nevertheless I lived 12 years in the UK (Brighton) and now 11 in Spain. Each country has its pros and cons.

The weather is straight up bad in the UK, the food expensive and sub standard. It is extremely expensive in terms of the cost of living and society is less welcoming. There are weird laws and customs in place around taking kids to bars (it was crazy to me you could take a dog but not a kid to some bars).

On the plus side people are more culturally diverse and society more advanced on issues like racism, sexuality etc . The multi cultural mix and history in terms of arts, music and film is what I miss the most as is the sense of humor.

TV and the entertainment arts are way better in the UK.
In terms of food I liked the diversity of restaurant options but the overall quality is way lower and expensive.

On balance way prefer the quality of life in Spain.

If Spain and the UK have the same weather, what would you prefer?

 

[Ecstatic]

I always struggle to understand what there is about being born or brought up in a country there is to be proud of. Not ashamed either although in recent times a bit disappointed with some, but not the country. Can you explain what being a Proud Englishman is proud of just out of interest, not criticism?

I’ve always wondered that especially the more I travelled, I have about as much in common with many places in the UK as I do with Madrid so not sure why I’d be proud of something that’s happened in say Hull

I am not British of course but what I would call the English pride is not only about the country and its culture.

On a regular basis, one can hear or read some English people saying "I am a proud mum of 2" or "I am proud of the job we have done."

The underlying reason is that there some people who feel the need to sell themselves or boost self-confidence.

 

[RedRoach]

If Spain and the UK have the same weather, what would you prefer?

Still Spain for me. There are other issues that I pointed out, like the cost of living which is astronomical due to the cost of property and things like council tax, water etc. I believe we were paying something like £200 a month on council tax when I left. It is undoubtedly more now whilst in Spain council tax is about that for the whole year. Cost of transport as well, I commuted to London at one point and the train was nearly 5K GBP per year. The cost of public transport is insane in the UK generally as the buses, taxis etc. are more expensive. Water was also a lot more expensive.

Cost of going out as well. I can go to bar here an a good glass of wine costs €2. In the UK a decent glass of wine is £7 or above. You can eat out much more cheaply as well.

In general in Spain you can live well on far less whilst in the UK, in particular in the South East, you need a household income of at least £70k per year to live conformably IMO.

The other aspect I don't miss from the UK is the lack of light in winter with the Sun going at 4pm. That extra 2 hours we get in Spain of light really helps mentally.

The diversity of what we can do in Spain in terms of activities is also a better fit for me personally. In summer there are great beaches and in winter skiing destinations, both of which are easily accessible by car.

The things I miss about the UK are primarily cultural (art, film, theatre, sense of humour etc.)

 

[Wumminator]

I have no idea why anyone could be proud to come from current England. It’s a cruel, uncaring and spiteful place lacking in laughter.

look at the photos of the food going out to kids FFS.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I have no idea why anyone could be proud to come from current England. It’s a cruel, uncaring and spiteful place lacking in laughter.

look at the photos of the food going out to kids FFS.

This, its a dismal depressing place full of little englander twats stuck between the 1930s and the 1960s, the weather is shit, the government is shit, infrastructure is shit, the population seem to be getting dumber and more gullible by the year and everyone seems to want to be like the bloody yanks.

 

[oates]

This, its a dismal depressing place full of little englander twats stuck between the 1930s and the 1960s, the weather is shit, the government is shit, infrastructure is shit, the population seem to be getting dumber and more gullible by the year and everyone seems to want to be like the bloody yanks.

I was thinking today that we don't have the personalities to be like the Americans. They're always so positive about everything, it's even a bit annoying at times but if you asked them how they are, they come back with the super positive, 'Awesome!', or 'Killing it', "Fecking Great'. The English, not necessarily the Brits, when someone asks us how we are we say, 'Oh, not bad' or 'OK I s'pose'. We're not depressed, just not quite going to make out as Americans do that everything is super fecking great, even when it's not.

We'd never match up to that standard of bullshit.

 

[Ramshock]

In any given year you'll find many examples of the differences between the UK and the rest of Europe, often highlighted as a point of pride. In the last year there have been obviously some particularly striking examples, starting with the withdrawal from the EU, moving onto the UK taking a different approach to managing the pandemic in March, ending with the finalisation of Brexit.

The UK government have started this year again drawing the contrast by celebrating the fact they're winning the vaccine race over their European "friends". So while there's no shortage of similarities, there were plenty of differences to emphasise over the last 12 months.

So I wondered, if you see the UK as (substantially) different, do you see the UK as better? "Better" based on whatever criteria you use to judge a country's overall contribution to the world, to their members, whatever's important to you.

I was just thinking about it as I read this, and whether it resonates more broadly:

"better"

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I was thinking today that we don't have the personalities to be like the Americans. They're always so positive about everything, it's even a bit annoying at times but if you asked them how they are, they come back with the super positive, 'Awesome!', or 'Killing it', "Fecking Great'. The English, not necessarily the Brits, when someone asks us how we are we say, 'Oh, not bad' or 'OK I s'pose'. We're not depressed, just not quite going to make out as Americans do that everything is super fecking great, even when it's not.

We'd never match up to that standard of bullshit.

Thats very true, but unfortunately I think Britain is still getting more and more americanised year on year. More and more insular, all about me, mine and my rights and less about society as a whole.

 

[Wumminator]

My biggest concern with both England (and America which is further along) is the lack of accountability.

COVID deniers/Brexit worshippers/Trump/Food banks... these people are constantly lying. Constantly. Yet if we point it out we’re not being fair or just being biased.
I can’t stand Piers Morgan, he’s a prick but I wish more people did interviews like him. The BBC in an attempt to seem balanced can’t criticise obvious lies for some reason.

 

[Sassy Colin]

I saw this posted on another Forum:

"Why the feck anyone would want to come to this dreary, xenophobic, shabby little island is beyond me."

I subscribe to this opinion.

I was hoping to get out at some stage, but I think Brexit has made that more difficult.

 

[Plymouth Red]

I saw this posted on another Forum:

"Why the feck anyone would want to come to this dreary, xenophobic, shabby little island is beyond me."

I subscribe to this opinion.

I was hoping to get out at some stage, but I think Brexit has made that more difficult.

When you are on the inside looking out, it is easy for the grass to look greener elsewhere.

However, if you take a wider look at things and see the matter from a range of external viewpoints, a different picture emerges.

These two articles, one recent one fairly recent, show that the UK is by no means the most xenophobic country in Europe. On the contrary, it is one of the least xenophobic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46369046

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/u...ILob7yCi3stGrHqbY3RNYRh2NEEqv1VJBGhOrkGrba-SJ

If you look further afield, countries like China, Korea and Russia are hugely discriminatory. Then throw into the mix those which openly practice a hierarchical caste system. Then throw into the mix those which have tribal structures where if you are unlucky enough to be born into the wrong one, your life may be in peril.
The inescapable fact is that thousands of educated people risk their and their children’s lives each week to try to reach the UK.
Why? Because we are, as you so generously describe us, a “dreary, xenophobic, shabby little island”?
I don’t think so. It’s because of their preference to raise a family here rather than the chain of countries they have had to cross through.
By the way, if you want some help to find a way to leave the UK, I have a feeling there will be plenty willing to give you a hand.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I saw this posted on another Forum:

"Why the feck anyone would want to come to this dreary, xenophobic, shabby little island is beyond me."

I subscribe to this opinion.

I was hoping to get out at some stage, but I think Brexit has made that more difficult.

really.

I live in London, and it’s a wonderful multicultural city.

pretty sad you think that way.

 

[FootballHQ]

Music? U.k has certainly punched above its weight historically on in that genre.

 

[4bars]

Still Spain for me. There are other issues that I pointed out, like the cost of living which is astronomical due to the cost of property and things like council tax, water etc. I believe we were paying something like £200 a month on council tax when I left. It is undoubtedly more now whilst in Spain council tax is about that for the whole year. Cost of transport as well, I commuted to London at one point and the train was nearly 5K GBP per year. The cost of public transport is insane in the UK generally as the buses, taxis etc. are more expensive. Water was also a lot more expensive.

Cost of going out as well. I can go to bar here an a good glass of wine costs €2. In the UK a decent glass of wine is £7 or above. You can eat out much more cheaply as well.

In general in Spain you can live well on far less whilst in the UK, in particular in the South East, you need a household income of at least £70k per year to live conformably IMO.

The other aspect I don't miss from the UK is the lack of light in winter with the Sun going at 4pm. That extra 2 hours we get in Spain of light really helps mentally.

The diversity of what we can do in Spain in terms of activities is also a better fit for me personally. In summer there are great beaches and in winter skiing destinations, both of which are easily accessible by car.

The things I miss about the UK are primarily cultural (art, film, theatre, sense of humour etc.)

I guess you enjoy the benefits of being an immigrant of not knowing the root of the problems of a country. I was born in Barcelona lived till I was 22 and after that I lived in short periods of time in 7 different countries being currently in Vancouver for the last 4.

And I get what you mean aboout Spain, but employment opportunities? there is currently a 16.5% unemployment (40% under 25 years old). And lots of the jobs are in shitty sectors like construction and hospitality that when you reach a crisis could climb up like in 2010 at 27% (60% under 30) making society insecure and with low wages (minimum salary till 2019 was 600 euros (rent 1 room easily 900 euros in Barcelona) and in 2020 around 900 euros.Everything that is better in Spain has nothin to do with politics but cultural, clima, gastronomy. Politically speaking, Spain is one of the most corrupt and conservative in Europe, careerwise suicidal and frankly I am much better in Vancouver were I don't need to beg for a crappy job working afterhours for free. I lived in Scotland over a year, but I can't rate under or over Spain, because It was during the worst personal experience in my life, and I couldn't experience fully what it meant to be there and yes, weatherwise and foodwise was crappy, and is moldy(and what the feck in carpeting everything) but I liked scots, the history that you can breath in edinburgh, the openness of the countryside and yes, fecking Haggis

 

[DOTA]

Move the thread in the general and we will tell you the truth.

This. If you're gonna ask a silly question you should put it in the silly forum.

 

[Cheimoon]

From my perspective, I can't really do much with this sort of topic. If you want to compare countries, either you go with objective criteria (such as those international happiness indices), or you compare based on sustained experience in multiple places - although that's already quite subjective. Everything else is likely based on incomplete information (how do you really know what it's like to live somewhere if you have never done it yourself?) and subjective criteria, which are probably different for every individual - meaning that we're essentially all talking about different things and not having much of a discussion. I'll also add that countries are very varied. I think @Penna brought up this thing of only having experience with part of the UK and therefore, even as a native, not really being able to speak for the country as a whole.

(But I suppose I'm being too academically minded here.)

That is quite simple really. There are numerous things I am proud of, including but not exclusively:
Our music, particularly rock.
Our sportsmen and sports women who constantly perform at the very highest level.
Our fantastic countryside.
Our overachieving economy.
Our scientists and engineers who produce world leading products.
And our sense of fair play.

Having said that, there are many other things I am not particularly proud of.
But on balance, there are more positive than negative things.

This has always interested me though. How would you define or describe this feeling of pride? I know that many feel that way about their countries, but it has always been very alien to me - be it for the country I grew up in (the Netherlands) or my new home (Canada). Looking at the sort of things you list, I have not contributed in any way to any of that, apart from by voting, paying taxes, and being one among millions; and I assume it's likely the same for you. To me, being proud of these things is like being proud that today's snow was nice and fluffy. I don't think anyone would feel that way, so why would feel that way about a country?

This isn't meant as criticism btw (even if I do dislike the next step variant, which takes this pride into the nationalism that includes feeling negative about other countries). As I said, many feel that way and I'd like to understand that better. I know that I define 'proud' too narrowly (too much linked to my own doing), but the point is that I don't understand the emotion of feeling pride for your country - even far beyond your local environment (neighbourhood).

(Full disclosure: we didn't actually have snow today, but I have high hopes for the weekend - fluffy or no.)

Music? U.k has certainly punched above its weight historically on in that genre.

Doesn't 'hstorically' mean pop/rock since the 60s in that context? The UK certainly underperformed for classical composers, and I can't much think of other genres either where they overperformed.

 

[Eboue]

i find that racism is alive and well in europe at a time when its been largely blunted in the uk

 

[RedSky]

i find that racism is alive and well in europe at a time when its been largely blunted in the uk

It hasn't.

 

[Fridge chutney]

The UK is full of people like James Corden, Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage. So how great could it be?

 

[Fridge chutney]

I'm joking. Manchester is in the UK so it's definitely great

 

[RedRoach]

I guess you enjoy the benefits of being an immigrant of not knowing the root of the problems of a country. I was born in Barcelona lived till I was 22 and after that I lived in short periods of time in 7 different countries being currently in Vancouver for the last 4.

And I get what you mean aboout Spain, but employment opportunities? there is currently a 16.5% unemployment (40% under 25 years old). And lots of the jobs are in shitty sectors like construction and hospitality that when you reach a crisis could climb up like in 2010 at 27% (60% under 30) making society insecure and with low wages (minimum salary till 2019 was 600 euros (rent 1 room easily 900 euros in Barcelona) and in 2020 around 900 euros.Everything that is better in Spain has nothin to do with politics but cultural, clima, gastronomy. Politically speaking, Spain is one of the most corrupt and conservative in Europe, careerwise suicidal and frankly I am much better in Vancouver were I don't need to beg for a crappy job working afterhours for free. I lived in Scotland over a year, but I can't rate under or over Spain, because It was during the worst personal experience in my life, and I couldn't experience fully what it meant to be there and yes, weatherwise and foodwise was crappy, and is moldy(and what the feck in carpeting everything) but I liked scots, the history that you can breath in edinburgh, the openness of the countryside and yes, fecking Haggis

That is true, however I do see what you are talking about with my kids who are in the age group you mention. Living the in the Basque region means there are more job opportunities here (unemployment is 10%, lower than the average), although not as many as in England. It is also true that job situation down south is grim, however I don't see that changing unless there is a real desire from the people to move away from tourism as the main source of income.

One major difference with the UK though is although unemployment is so high you don't see to such an extent the social problems that brings because young people are still living with their parents. In the UK if unemployment was 16% there would be havoc and riots and many people living on the streets.

In terms of corruption, it is true that has been a problem however I appreciate we currently have a left leaning government at least, compared the the complete cluster that is the conservative government in the UK and their handling of Brexit.

I think if you are looking to build a career then yes that is one of the great strengths of the UK. There are many opportunities and a buzzing startup culture and desire to create new businesses and innovate.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

i find that racism is alive and well in europe at a time when its been largely blunted in the uk

This joke did not get enough love

 

[Member 60376]

We have amber. It’s the sequence that’s different. The different sequences reflect our differing mentalities.

Our lights go from green to amber to red. Basically saying “Take it handy there. The light’s about to change. Don’t want you to slam the breaks on. Slow yourself down a wee bit. Good man.” Yours go from red to amber to green. “QUICK! Get ready to go! You’re going to delay EVERYONE! Come on! Get into gear! Move it!”

The same in India. So we get people speeding through the signal when it is Amber.

Plus we get timers when on Red. So people revv their engines while the counter approaches zero and zip off the moment it turns Green.

Worst of both worlds really.

 

[nimic]

This joke did not get enough love

He's made it a few times, to be fair

 

[4bars]

That is true, however I do see what you are talking about with my kids who are in the age group you mention. Living the in the Basque region means there are more job opportunities here (unemployment is 10%, lower than the average), although not as many as in England. It is also true that job situation down south is grim, however I don't see that changing unless there is a real desire from the people to move away from tourism as the main source of income.

One major difference with the UK though is although unemployment is so high you don't see to such an extent the social problems that brings because young people are still living with their parents. In the UK if unemployment was 16% there would be havoc and riots and many people living on the streets.

In terms of corruption, it is true that has been a problem however I appreciate we currently have a left leaning government at least, compared the the complete cluster that is the conservative government in the UK and their handling of Brexit.

I think if you are looking to build a career then yes that is one of the great strengths of the UK. There are many opportunities and a buzzing startup culture and desire to create new businesses and innovate.

That is easier said than done. If the government educate us as workers not as enterpreneurs, if the talent goes away because of lack of opportunities, etc...is unlikely to happen is a vicious cycle. I am not from the south but from Catalonia, so not in a bad area also, and the situation can be disparing. there is a institutional problems coming from francoism that affects society and is unlikely to be solved as we keep dragging it.

As much as political parties comes and goes in UK and Brexit happened, I don't see that the institutions will suffer, is just a bad government

 

[RoyH1]

The UK is full of people like James Corden, Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage. So how great could it be?

Other European countries have their own versions of clowns like that. We just don't know them well. English speaking versions of anything have a larger worldwide reach.

I don't think Britain is any worse than the average European country, but it's certainly not "better" for someone on a mid or low level income. The standard of public welfare and education lags behind most countries the UK would compare itself too. 40 years of hollowing out the public sector have taken their toll. The NHS is holding on, but just barely.

 

[Bebestation]

I heard Norway is the best place to live but quite hard to get in to because people want to move in there.

 

[Gehrman]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[RoyH1]

I heard Norway is the best place to live but quite hard to get in to because people want to move in there.

Beautiful country with a high living standard. Awful weather, at least in the southern part of it though. My job took me to Bergen a couple of times and I don't think I ever saw the sun. It rained all the time.

 

[Bebestation]

Beautiful country with a high living standard. Awful weather, at least in the southern part of it though. My job took me to Bergen a couple of times and I don't think I ever saw the sun. It rained all the time.

Yeah it was my family who had been there who were very impressed about the living standards. How bad is the weather compared to the UK's in your opinion? I feel like its probably a more extreme version of that weather because i heard it can get sunny in the summer but freezing in the other seasons