The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[jojojo]

EMA continues to believe that the benefits of AZ outweigh the risks. No conclusive data on who is at higher risk of major adverse reactions at present.

 

[jojojo]

MHRA/JCVI briefing seems to be slightly delayed - presumably to allow EMA a little time to do their opening statements.

 

[zing]

Obviously, there's no point in arguing with someone like you, who is always right.

How do you feel about thousands of people dying every day in Europe whilst they 'pause' the roll out of the vaccine due to a tiny amount of people, possibly, having an adverse reaction?

One of the contra indications on the packet of Ibuprofen I brought from Sainsbury's might interest you: "very rarely kidney failure". This is for a pain killer that you don't really need and the benefits are variable, such that you probably wouldn't be any worse off if you didn't take it at all.

How about, on the same leaflet: small increased risk of heart attack, heart failure.

The vaccine is saving, and will save, thousands of lives. It's common sense, I don't need to watch sensationalist news reports to work that one out for myself.

In fact, you have been far more influenced than me, if you think that the risk of taking the vaccine is in any way on a par with not taking it.

I feel like you’re talking at cross purposes here with Brwned. One is about individual risk and another about public health. The guardian reports that the incidence rate in women is 1 in 50k. I don’t get the incentive for a young woman to get the az vaccine if the probability of getting COVID and dying is much less than 1 in 50k. Every single one of the 45 persons who died thought they were getting a vaccine - their death was deterministic, there’s no probabilistic outcome there.

 

[11101]

EMA continues to believe that the benefits of AZ outweigh the risks. No conclusive data on who is at higher risk of major adverse reactions at present.

No, but of the 222 cases to date the highest number were under 60 females. Not enough information to say anything beyond that, although AZ has been told to investigate (which should be fun).

 

[Jacko21]

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[zing]

No, but of the 222 cases to date the highest number were under 60 females. Not enough information to say anything beyond that, although AZ has been told to investigate (which should be fun).

Do you know how many?

 

[Water Melon]

We have only 2 options in Uzbekistan: 1) AZ manufactured in India 2) ZF 2001 (China). After having seen with my own eyes what has happened to a guy who took an AZ vaccine, I decided to skip it. However, ZF 2001 does not fill me with confidence either. No pfizer or moderna here.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Interesting. I wonder why they chose under 30s and not under 40s?

 

[Water Melon]

Interesting. I wonder why they chose under 30s and not under 40s?

Having seen what happened to a 47 year old healthy guy, I would not offer it to anyone under 70.

 

[11101]

Do you know how many?

They didn't say, but the conference is still ongoing. Majority was the word i think they used.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Having seen what happened to a 47 year old healthy guy, I would not offer it to anyone under 70.

Sorry to hear about what happened to your friend but it sounds like he had a DVT. Which isn’t the type of clot that’s been causing these concerns and hasn’t been found to happen more frequently amongst people that got the vaccine. There’s a good chance that what happened to him is a complete coincidence.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Having seen what happened to a 47 year old healthy guy, I would not offer it to anyone under 70.

What happened if I may ask?

 

[ha_rooney]

According to BBC’s page, by the end of March 79 people in the UK suffered rare blood clots after vaccination & 19 died. I wonder how many were under 30?

 

[Sir Matt]

Thanks for the feedback - doesn't bode well!

But on the second day after the shot, I'm back to normal.

 

[Jacko21]

MHRA has also confirmed that anyone under the age of 30 who has had their first Oxford/AZ dose (and didn't suffer blood clotting side effects), should proceed to have their second dose as normal.

 

[Water Melon]

Sorry to hear about what happened to your friend but it sounds like he had a DVT. Which isn’t the type of clot that’s been causing these concerns and hasn’t been found to happen more frequently amongst people that got the vaccine. There’s a good chance that what happened to him is a complete coincidence.

Flipping hope so. Lot's of people in the country are bound to take AZ vaccine. When it comes to this guy, he is very serious when it comes to his health, and had no serious health conditions.

 

[LARulz]

Interesting. I wonder why they chose under 30s and not under 40s?

Yeah as a 30 year old I am wondering why all of a sudden I am fine

 

[Infra-red]

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My 31 year old sister, who is booked in to have AZ tomorrow afternoon, is not loving this news.

 

[Mickeza]

Interesting. I wonder why they chose under 30s and not under 40s?

I think if they restricted it to over 40s then the timing of when they would be vaccinated would increase by a few months thus their chances of getting COVID and risk associated would increase against the risk/benefit of having AZ - especially as we now start to open up. Seems a pretty pragmatic decision but the DNAs we’re now seeing makes it likely many of those over 40 are deciding to get another vaccine anyway - gone from 6-8% to 15% the last week as we start under 50s.

 

[Water Melon]

What happened if I may ask?

The guy took the first shot of AZ vaccine and 8 days later one of his legs is just blue in colour.

 

[esmufc07]

I’m 30, inject me already.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think if they restricted it to over 40s then the timing of when they would be vaccinated would increase by a few months thus their chances of getting COVID and risk associated would increase against the risk/benefit of having AZ - especially as we now start to open up. Seems a pretty pragmatic decision but the DNAs we’re now seeing makes it likely many of those over 40 are deciding to get another vaccine anyway - gone from 6-8% to 15% the last week as we start under 50s.

Eesh. There’s going to be more and more people turning their nose up at this vaccine in the coming weeks, isn’t there?

 

[Pexbo]

My partner is 29, 30 at the end of June. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t prefer her to have one of the other vaccines even though I know it’s incredibly unlikely. Human nature I guess. Given the choice of AZ or no vaccine, it’s AZ though.

 

[esmufc07]

My partner is 29, 30 at the end of June. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t prefer her to have one of the other vaccines even though I know it’s incredibly unlikely. Human nature I guess. Given the choice of AZ or no vaccine, it’s AZ though.

You’re taking her to see AZ Alkmaar?

 

[F-Red]

My 31 year old sister, who is booked in to have AZ tomorrow afternoon, is not loving this news.

My partner is 29, 30 at the end of June. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t prefer her to have one of the other vaccines even though I know it’s incredibly unlikely. Human nature I guess. Given the choice of AZ or no vaccine, it’s AZ though.

It'll be fine I'm sure, I'm mid 30's and had AZ for my first dose nearly 4 weeks ago now. No issues.

 

[Pexbo]

You’re taking her to see AZ Alkmaar?

Yeah she’s an Eredivisie connoisseur. I tried to get her into the EPL but she was all like “don’t be daft, if it the origins of total football aren’t explicitly evident then I don’t want to know”. Bloody hipster.

 

[11101]

I do think it's time the regulator started to open up a bit more. It's no longer enough to keep saying it's safe when a few hundred people have now had clotting issues and we are still some way from mass vaccination of the younger age groups. What are the specifics of those who got the blood clots vs the total number of vaccines those groups received?

 

[OleBoiii]

My mother took the first dose of AZ about 3 weeks ago. For some weird reason she's not scheduled for the second dose before May or June sometime.

Is it possible to switch to another vaccine? And if so, then I reckon she might need two doses of whatever other vaccine she takes?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Good slide/thread.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

The guy took the first shot of AZ vaccine and 8 days later one of his legs is just blue in colour.

Sad to hear. Hope he’s getting better. There are always stories of people behind numbers/statistics. Good not to forget that in a thread like this.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Yeah she’s an Eredivisie connoisseur. I tried to get her into the EPL but she was all like “don’t be daft, if it the origins of total football aren’t explicitly evident then I don’t want to know”. Bloody hipster.

Does she know there isn’t a roof on their stadium at the moment since the last one collapsed? Actually that’s perfect for a hipster. Probably one of the reasons that drew her to AZ.

 

[Pexbo]

Does she know there isn’t a roof on their stadium at the moment since the last one collapsed? Actually that’s perfect for a hipster. Probably one of the reasons that drew her to AZ.

She won’t stop going on about it

 

[RobinLFC]

My mother took the first dose of AZ about 3 weeks ago. For some weird reason she's not scheduled for the second dose before May or June sometime.

Is it possible to switch to another vaccine? And if so, then I reckon she might need two doses of whatever other vaccine she takes?

12 weeks is the suggested timeframe between the AZ jabs. My girlfriend had her first one mid-March (no issues apart from a one-day fever) and is scheduled for the beginning of June for her second.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Those side effects are totally spot on. I would very much avoid giving ibuprofen in patients who have kidney failure or heart failure bedside it can make things much worse. Similarly, Paracetamol is a horrible drug in overdose and very good at messing up your liver and possibly killing you if you take it in overdose (which isn't as much as some people might think).

You've built a bit of a straw man there with that final paragraph. Literally nobody is saying the risk of taking the vaccine is more than not taking it, in general. That'd the important thing.

But the risk of a 25 year old woman dying from covid is minimal. That isn't to minimise the seriousness of the disease or anything like that, but it's fact. The risk of an 80 year old with diabetes and heart failure is much higher.

So the question we must ask ourselves, especially in a world where we have three vaccines already authorised in tjr West, a very good one from Russia, at least another 2 coming, is whether the risk benefit analysis is the same for everyone and for every vaccine.

So if AZ increases your risk of clots by 100 as a young woman, even if that risk is still minimal, does it make sense to give young women that vaccine? Or should we save them for older people, who so far don't seem to have that reaction and save Pfizer, sputnik and moderna for the younger?

We don't know yet. There are outstanding scientists working on this as we speak.

Which brings me to the last point. People need to stop politicising this shit. Macron, Johnson, Michel et al are all total buffoons and they politicise. The scientists at the MHRA, EMA and FDA are not and do not.

Their decisions are not political and I trust them to make the decisions that are right. So if thr MHRA make a decision, that isn't because they're shit. And if the EMA make a decision, it isn't because of brexit. Both of them are making decisions based on the evidence available to them at the moment.

Would there not be significant risks to the rest of the population in not vaccinating young women though?

 

[Wolverine]

Good decision regarding AZ. Important to be transparent regarding these things. There might be some thinking behind the not offering it under 30s and might not be as arbitrary as it seems.

We've had lots of over 30s asking regarding switching from AZ to Pfizer which isn't always possible and government needs to help primary care by ensuring Pfizer, Moderna supplies are regular otherwise the coverage will take a bit of a hit if there is en masse loss in confidence in AZ. At the moment primary care doctors and admin are compiling lists of patient groups who've declined the vaccines (all ages) for callbacks.
So far there is a significant number for sure worried regarding the AZ but uptake still remains decent. No idea how today's announcement will change things mind.

 

[Suedesi]

Got my jab today, JNJ - so theoretically I should be inoculated in two weeks. Time to book that overdue vacation I suppose.

Some mild side effects to report the day after (took the jab at 5pm; writing this at noon the following day, or + 19 hours later) - a slight headache which disappeared after Tylenol, a mildly stuffed nose and that's about it. No sore arm which I was the most afraid off, and no fever whatsoever.

 

[Wolverine]

Would there not be significant risks to the rest of the population in not vaccinating young women though?

Not if we can quickly get them either moderna or pfizer

 

[Suedesi]

Some more quotes. From the same article.



The painfully slow roll-out of the last few months hinged on AZ’s undelivering by a spectacular amount. Had they come even close to their Q1 promises this wouldn’t be a big deal at all. Despite the slow start chances are the EU will have every member state (including the poorest) supplied with enough vaccines to catch up with the UK within 2 or 3 months.

Not to mention that the UK has been walking a tightrope by being a) incredibly reliant on one specific vaccine (if AZ clotting issues had caused the drug to fail in Phase 3 and Sanofi had ended up coming to market then the UK would be far worse off than the EU is now) and b) pushing out the dosing intervals of Pfizer/Moderna contrary to the vaccine license. We’re seeing fantastic data coming out of Israel about how effective this vaccine is in real life but can’t be certain these results will be repeated in the UK, which is a pity.

The margins between success and failure here are incredibly slim and - just like the tactics used to suppress the virus in the first and second waves - initial success doesn’t always translate into the best long term outcomes. We’ll have a much better idea how everyone compares by the end of this year.

Most important of all, as the article points out, the alternative of the wealthiest individual EU states copying the US/UK nativist approach would have been catastrophic. For the whole world.

I think 2-3 months lag is not insignificant (economically, mentally etc, etc) and if the EU spread their bets with other providers there might not be a gap to begin with. Could be the difference between opening up in June vs Aug/Sep. Anyways, no need for fingerpointing - I wish the speediest possible rollout to Europe.

 

[Mihai]

According to BBC’s page, by the end of March 79 people in the UK suffered rare blood clots after vaccination & 19 died. I wonder how many were under 30?

3 of those 19 were under 30.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Not if we can quickly get them either moderna or pfizer

Fair enough, lets hope we can do that then!