The Virgin League Draft - Michaelf7777777 vs. Pat_Mustard & Jim Beam (GROUP D)

With players in their 3 year career peak, who would win?


  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

Invictus

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Michaelf7777777........................................................................................................Pat_Mustard & Jim Beam
..........VS...........



Team Michaelf7777777 (G. Popescu dropped for A. Zubizarreta)

My team will play a 4-2-3-1 formation with 4 players whom I would strongly consider for a first round pick in this draft in Bochini, Goncalves, Leandro and Charles (with Bulgarelli being good enough for this status in terms of quality but he is not as well known).

My Goalkeeper is Andoni Zubizarreta who was efficient and great at positioning and one of the best keepers in the history of both Spain and Barcelona. Zubizarreta won the Don Balon award in 1987 as the best Spanish player in La Liga (for context 1987 was the year in which Ruud Gullit claimed that Rafael Gordillo, a Spainard who played for Real Madrid should have won the Ballon d'Or instead of him).

My Rightback is Leandro who was a great allround rightback being a great allround attacking player and running as much if not more than anyone else in the 1982 Brazil team while defensively being good enough later in his career to make the Brazil national team as a centreback and was one of the best 2 centrebacks in the Campeonato Brasileiro in 1985. My first centreback is Carlos Gamarra who was named as the best defender in CONMEBOL in 1998 (a year in which he was also included in the FIFA World Cup All Star team). He will be partnered by Murtaz Khurtsilava who finished second in the Soviet Footballer of the Year award (voted on by journalists) in both 1967 and 1968 and in his position in the Soviet league he was judged (by the Presidum of the Football Federation with the approval of the National Coaches Council) the best player in 5 seasons (68, 69, 71, 72, 73), the second best twice (65, 66) and third best twice (63, 70) with an additional top 3 finish in 67 when the top 3 were not ordered although he was the best placed defender in the Soviet Footballer of the Year award that year. My leftback who was two footed, quick, good going forward (being one of only 3 British players to have scored in two European cup finals along with Neal and Bale) and a good tackler.

My defensive midfielder is Nestor Goncalves who was very similar to his predecessor, for both club and country, Obdulio Varela, Goncalves was great defensively, was very tactically aware, extremely tough and also had a superb passing range to help start attacks from deep. My box to box midfielder is Giacomo Bulgarelli who according to Fabio Capello in 2009 was the greatest Italian midfielder ever and according to Sergio Campana (a teammate at Bologna and President of the Italian Footballers Association for more than 40 years) had the skills of both Gianni Rivera and Sandro Mazzola. My attacking midfielder is Ricardo Bochini who won the Footballer of the Year for Argentina in 1983 and finished third in the South American Footballer of the Year award in 1984 as well as being included in the South American Team of the Year in 1989 and being Maradona's idol. Bochini was a great passer and dribbler as well as being an expert at timing passes to leave forwards one-on-one with the goalkeeper.

On the right hand side of my front three is Mohamed Salah who has scored 94 goals in 152 games in his 3 years at Liverpool being premier league golden boot twice as well as being voted the best player in England in the 2017-18 season by fans, journalists and players. My striker is John Charles who was the top scorer in the first division in England and Serie A in Italy in successive seasons as well as finishing third in the 1959 Ballon d'Or. In 1997, Juventus fans voted him the greatest foreign player in their history and Jack Charlton also considered him the most effective player that he had ever seen. On the left hand side of my front 3 is Lennart Skoglund who in 2017 was voted the greatest player to come from Stockholm in the previous 100 years. Skoglund played as both an inside left and a left winger and was known for his skills at dribbling, reading the game, set pieces and shooting.




Team Pat_Mustard & Jim Beam (O. Bergmar dropped for B. Boli)

Formation: Attacking 4-2-3-1 with a moderate-high line.

Tactics: all in, you wanted you'll get it

Wounded by criticism that they lined up too defensively in their last match, the Inglorious Mustards react with fury by dropping a defender and going hari-kari. TAA, Koeman and Marcelo have all excelled in proactive, match-controlling formations, and big bad Basile Boli was drafted precisely for his proficiency in defending against an aerially-dominant monster like John Charles - he rose above Frank Rijkaard from a corner to win the European Cup for Marseille while keeping Marco van Basten shackled through the 1993 CL final.

Liedholm - Kubala - Enzo - Sosa - Larsson it is.



Good luck @Michaelf7777777 @Pat_Mustard @Jim Beam!
 

harms

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Both defences seem to be vulnerable. You have only one genuinely outstanding defender in Pat&Jim's team – not sure how smart was this decision to put another striker on. I'd love a more goalscoring option on the left to exploit Bochini's outstanding between the line passing a bit more, but even as it is, there's going to be goals.

On the other side, a bit of good old crossing to Larsson, Enzo & Kubala is going to cause some issues to 2 short center backs, neither of whom were quite Passarella-Cannavaro-esque in terms of their aerial game. Maybe Gemmel will help out?
 

Jim Beam

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Both defences seem to be vulnerable. You have only one genuinely outstanding defender in Pat&Jim's team – not sure how smart was this decision to put another striker on.
We just wanted to throw the kitchen sink tbh.
 

Physiocrat

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Pretty much spot on 4231 @Michaelf7777777

A winger, a wide forward, balanced full back and an attacking full back, DM, B2B and a 10. Very nice indeed.
 

Jim Beam

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I mean, it is a game. If you won't go for it sometimes and try something different, then it is a bit pointless. Some will like it, some won't, but that attack has about 3 goals in it. If he can outscore us all good. And after some absolutely ridiculous comments from you (although most gave us our vote) about the previous team this is basically a big feck off to everything about that game. It annoyed the shit out of me. This is a new one for me as am now starting to get riled when am winning also. :lol: Won't comment this nonsense about Koeman anymore. Am not the biggest fan, but in this pool he is dick and elbows (am claiming this one) above most of your CB's and guarded by a great first and foremost defender alongside of him here. But, no, put him in a 3, put him in a 2, put him in a non-possession team or just outjump him and that's it. So, as we listen to all that we said we might as well go down swinging while we at it.

We like Michael team, it is balanced, solid and has all the right ingredients. Not sure if it is attacking, defending or what exactly, but yeah, you look at it and say, yep it is a solid 4-2-3-1. Absolutely no complaints if you go for him. Our bunch needs a bit more imagination, but if you buy it and think it will click, then yeah it will work spectacularly.

Nestor is not a good fit for Enzo though, watched him enough now that am certain of that. Now, Enzo is a bad fit for pretty much anyone, but Nestor was a great anchor, although not so mobile one. This is Enzo taking a piss on Brazil and Leandro multiple times making him look like... fat and useless Koeman!!!

 
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Jim Beam

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Considering I drolled over him to get picked he deserves some more introduction from me. Pat will be here after he comes back from a trip (it is probably a pub name)

Everyone loves a brilliant striker, a proper number 9 and Larsson is everything and more.

As he once said:
“You don’t want to walk in another man’s footsteps, you want to create your own.”
And he absolutely did, but the fact he did it in Scottish league remains a shadow over his overall ability which was outstanding. A complete striker, deadly one on one, fantastic in the air (hello TAA), left or right foot it didn't really matter and what I loved about him is that he was so selfless and had a fantastic ability to bring others into play like that time when he decided 2006 CL final on the biggest stage. Actually, aside maybe from Sosa who was at times a bit too individualistic everyone in that attack was a brilliant team player meaning Liedholm, Kubala, Enzo and Larsson.

But, anyway, back to his majesty upfront. A Celtic legend, a complete package that left the same emotion in both Barcelona and United. If we just got him a bit earlier... But, as the man said quitting Celtic was harder then quitting football.

 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Class team as expected from Michael - he looked like one of the best in drafting and has lived up to billling. That said, having drafted Marcelo and Koeman as our first two picks it's frustrating how little people care about the quality of the deeper build-up play given its paramount importance in the modern game.
 

Joga Bonito

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Pat could have had another CM instead of Kubala. Marcelo, TAA and Koeman seem a bit too attacking.

Any information on Skolgund?
It is attacking no doubt but modern sides play with 2 WBs and 2 inside forwards with no issues whatsoever. What would another midfielder there achieve that Cambiasso-Liedholm-Enzo do not cover?

In fact it's quite bizarre. Michael has two attacking wing backs, a solid ball playing DM, a B2B who is going to bomb forward a fair bit, a classy yet not such a grafting #10 and two excellent wing forwards who weren't the most hard working.

Pat-Beam's side is attacking but it has a lot of industry, especially in that glorious midfield trio yet they are copping this much flak?

The reason why I'm so annoyed is because it all boils down to Koeman ultimately. He wasn't the greatest defender but neither was he a brain dead one who just ambled forward or needed to be partnered with 3 defensive minded defenders. His greatest weapon in his arsenal was his long range passing, which is what made him so deadly for Netherlands and for the dream team. Put him in a back five and it's too defensive and put him in a back four and it's too attacking?

Don't get me wrong, Pat's side could have used with a relatively more balanced wing back instead of TAA to balance out Marcelo but it's a minor flaw (and they themselves have acknowledged that they might be vulnerable to conceding a goal or two), but it's not this huge issue as it has been drummed up over here.


Great side too @Michaelf7777777 . The flanks look really threatening and the midfield looks excellent. Ultimately I went with Pat-Jim's side but by a whisker.

Oh and Skoglund was a great left winger who was a really nifty dribbler and had a great cross on him. Had a rather controversial personality too if memory serves me right. The Skoglund-Salah wing has a lot in common with the famed partnership that he enjoyed with Hamrin.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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It is attacking no doubt but modern sides play with 2 WBs and 2 inside forwards with no issues whatsoever. What would another midfielder there achieve that Cambiasso-Liedholm-Enzo do not cover?
Very few successful sides sides have 2 attacking fullbacks and a attacking CB at same time. I can buy one but not two or three of the same at same time. It'd have to be really specific and this team isn't it.

Plus from what I've seen of Liedholm, I see him as a forward dropping back rather than a deeper midfielder bringing the ball forward.

Anyway....I'll get back to my drinking now.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Very few successful sides sides have 2 attacking fullbacks and a attacking CB at same time. I can buy one but not two or three of the same at same time. It'd have to be really specific and this team isn't it.

Plus from what I've seen of Liedholm, I see him as a forward dropping back rather than a deeper midfielder bringing the ball forward.

Anyway....I'll get back to my drinking now.
Agree with both points, especially the first one. That is what decided my vote as well.

I don't mind Liedholm in a slightly deeper role as long as it's in a midfield 3. I think he would thrive in a modern Guardiola setup.

On the too attacking debate, I think the balance becomes very critical. For example, I'd prefer seeing at the very least a DM who can fall back in defense in such a team to get the balance right. That covers up for Koeman's forays forward and gives a bit more confidence to think the team can hold it together on the counters. That way you can also avoid using a Vogts like figure alongside Koeman.
 

Joga Bonito

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Very few successful sides sides have 2 attacking fullbacks and a attacking CB at same time.
Except of course Koeman wasn't your average attacking centre back who kept bombing forward, which is important. It was his passing which was his main weapon, not that he didn't venture forward. He wasn't a barnstorming libero in the mould of an Morten Olsen for instance.



Plus from what I've seen of Liedholm, I see him as a forward dropping back rather than a deeper midfielder bringing the ball forward.
Liedholm was definitely the latter from the footage available (1958 WC) and he was brilliant and his work rate and physicality was excellent for a 35 year old midfield playmaker. He probably played a different role for Milan in his earlier years no doubt.

Anyway....I'll get back to my drinking now.
Have fun :lol:
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Liedholm was definitely the latter from the footage available (1958 WC) and he was brilliant and his work rate and physicality was excellent for a 35 year old midfield playmaker. He probably played a different role for Milan in his earlier years no doubt.
I beg to disagree. Even in 1958 he was an IF who dropped deep. Part of Gre-No-Li is exactly the same. I don't dispute his influence from the deep, but he needs to be a forward. I can even compromise on buying him as a right RM in a midfield 3, but the position this match isn't him at his peak. He is not a later day Scholes or Xabi Alonso.

There is a tendency to play old school players all over the place because of difference in tactics and formation, but still...they have a peak and a prominent position. Dropping back is totally different from operating in front of defence to drive ball forward.
 

Jim Beam

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Good game @Michaelf7777777. We put you 1st in the ranking just because it was a really balanced team all around if it is of any comfort.

After some complaints in the 1st round and you having Bochini in the hole with 2 dangerous wingers on each side while Charles occupying our CB's we figured we are in serious trouble, so went the only route left, full extreme. Do feel you have maybe more in the locker going against big guns here (enigma, bepo/gio, Big Dunk...), so good luck in the next match.

There is a tendency to play old school players all over the place because of difference in tactics and formation, but still...they have a peak and a prominent position. Dropping back is totally different from operating in front of defence to drive ball forward.
Sorry, but immediately after your post it reminded me of this jewel.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/juan-mata-as-deep-lying-playmaker-dlp.442582/

It is not about where someone played looking back, but whether that particular player could function in a specific role today. And we do feel that Cambiasso, Liedhold and Enzo have a bit of everything to make it work.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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It is not about where someone played looking back, but whether that particular player could function in a specific role today. And we do feel that Cambiasso, Liedhold and Enzo have a bit of everything to make it work.
@Joga Bonito

This was him in 1958 final vs Brazil. He drops back and is defensively very good. Has a good long pass, but not necessarily ones that spring open a defence. His best work was in attacking third of the pitch. Good close control, fast reactions. A IF or a #10 who has good defensive workrate...is how I remembered him.

If you have any videos of his midfield mastery, happy to watch.

 

Joga Bonito

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@Joga Bonito

This was him in 1958 final vs Brazil. He drops back and is defensively very good. Has a good long pass, but not necessarily ones that spring open a defence. His best work was in attacking third of the pitch. Good close control, fast reactions. A IF or a #10 who has good defensive workrate...is how I remembered him.

If you have any videos of his midfield mastery, happy to watch.

I know I made that video. On average his positioning was behind the play and it was Gren who more or less played like the #10 who was industrious and dropped deep.