The Virgin League Draft - QF4 - Michaelf7777777 vs. Joga Bonito & Theon

With players in their 3 year career peak, who would win?


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Invictus

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Michaelf7777777............................................................................................................Joga Bonito & Theon
..........VS............



Team Michaelf7777777

My team will play a 4-2-3-1 formation with 5 players whom I would strongly consider for a first round pick in this draft in Bochini, Goncalves, Leandro, van Dijk and Charles (with Bulgarelli being good enough for this status in terms of quality but he is not as well known).

My Goalkeeper is Andoni Zubizarreta who was efficient and great at positioning and one of the best keepers in the history of both Spain and Barcelona. Zubizarreta won the Don Balon award in 1987 as the best Spanish player in La Liga (for context 1987 was the year in which Ruud Gullit claimed that Rafael Gordillo, a Spainard who played for Real Madrid should have won the Ballon d'Or instead of him).

My Rightback is Leandro who was a great allround rightback being a great allround attacking player and running as much if not more than anyone else in the 1982 Brazil team while defensively being good enough later in his career to make the Brazil national team as a centreback and was one of the best 2 centrebacks in the Campeonato Brasileiro in 1985. My first centreback is Murtaz Khurtsilava who finished second in the Soviet Footballer of the Year award (voted on by journalists) in both 1967 and 1968 and in his position in the Soviet league he was judged (by the Presidum of the Football Federation with the approval of the National Coaches Council) the best player in 5 seasons (68, 69, 71, 72, 73), the second best twice (65, 66) and third best twice (63, 70) with an additional top 3 finish in 67 when the top 3 were not ordered although he was the best placed defender in the Soviet Footballer of the Year award that year. My second centreback is the 1.93m tall Virgil van Dijk who was the PFA Players Player of the year in 2018-19 and a member of the Champions League team of the season in both 2017-18 and 2018-19.My leftback is Tommy Gemmellwho was two footed, quick, good going forward (being one of only 3 British players to have scored in two European cup finals along with Neal and Bale) and a good tackler.

My defensive midfielder is Nestor Goncalves who was very similar to his predecessor, for both club and country, Obdulio Varela, Goncalves was great defensively, was very tactically aware, extremely tough and also had a superb passing range to help start attacks from deep. My box to box midfielder is Giacomo Bulgarelli who according to Fabio Capello in 2009 was the greatest Italian midfielder ever and according to Sergio Campana (a teammate at Bologna and President of the Italian Footballers Association for more than 40 years) had the skills of both Gianni Rivera and Sandro Mazzola. My attacking midfielder is Ricardo Bochini who won the Footballer of the Year for Argentina in 1983 and finished third in the South American Footballer of the Year award in 1984 as well as being included in the South American Team of the Year in 1989 and being Maradona's idol. Bochini was a great passer and dribbler as well as being an expert at timing passes to leave forwards one-on-one with the goalkeeper.

On the right hand side of my front three is Mohamed Salah who has scored 94 goals in 152 games in his 3 years at Liverpool being premier league golden boot twice as well as being voted the best player in England in the 2017-18 season by fans, journalists and players. My striker is John Charles who was the top scorer in the first division in England and Serie A in Italy in successive seasons as well as finishing third in the 1959 Ballon d'Or. In 1997, Juventus fans voted him the greatest foreign player in their history and Jack Charlton also considered him the most effective player that he had ever seen. On the left hand side of my front 3 is Eden Hazard who was the PFA players' player of the year in 2014-15 and the winner of the silver ball (2nd best player) at the 2018 world cup.



Team Joga Bonito & Theon

DEFENSE

Dino Zoff
('82 WC winning captain, 2nd in the Ballon d'Or) will prove to be a formidable last line of defence with his calming presence, organisational abilities and stupendous shot stopping expertise - playing in a classic Italian defence set up should elevate his game further and in a tight game his superiority to Zubi could make the difference. From the outset the defence has been built with Armando Picchi in mind whose organisational and defensive prowess is pivotal to the set-up. Leading the team from the heart of the defence the Grande Inter captain is one of the finest proponents of 'sweeping' ever - as a player we rank Picchi as the purest defender in the entire draft and his reading of the game and ability to sniff out danger will be critical.

Uruguayan and Juventus legend Paolo Montero, slots in seamlessly as the left sided stopper adding physicality and grit to the backline. Branded by Giggs as one of his toughest opponents, Montero was a mainstay in Juventus's defense when it was the meanest in Serie A and arguably world football. Dutch dynamo Van Bronckhorst was a force to be reckoned with on the left, manning the left flank single handedly and was a potent threat to the opposition's goal (as his goal against Uruguay in the '10 WC will testify). Finally captaining the defence as he did for Germany and Gladbach, 'the terrier' Berti Vogts needs no introduction - serial winner in all formats (World Cup, European Championship, five Bundesligas) who set the gold-standard in his role for over a decade (nine times Team of the Season, and two time Footballer of the Year in Germany in an era with Beckenbauer, Muller, Netzer and Breitner) - without question the best defender in this draft who should nullify Hazard whilst forming a great right flank with Haßler.


MIDFIELD

Dave Mackay
, the man branded by Best to be "his toughest and bravest opponent" was the cornerstone of Nicholson's historic double winning Spurs vintage and ranked by Brian Clough as Spur's greatest ever player (ahead of Hoddle, Blanchflower, Linekar and Greaves). In many ways similar to Keano, Mackay combined his status as a midfield hard-man with supreme ability on the ball and natural leadership ability, with Greaves once remarking that Mackay was "the most complete professional footballer I have ever known". Partnering Mackay is the classic complete package in Clarence Seedorf, with the Dutchman being the amalgam of flair and physicality. A key tactical cog for several top notch sides and the only player to win the Champions League with three clubs (Ajax, Real Madrid, AC Milan) Seedorf was the ultimate professional who always knew how to put his versatility and malleable skill set to perfect use, often tailoring his gameplay to elevate his side. Mackay and Seedorf will be an imposing duo with their dynamic two way games bridging and supplementing our rock solid rearguard and the fluid and creative attacking cast.

The little magician Alain Giresse was one of France's best players in '84 as he dovetailed beautifully with Platini in the carré magique, but at club level for Bordeaux he was a legendary figure in a more advanced #10 role where he would utilise his passing, technical quality and goal-scoring hitting 55 in 131 games at his peak. With his low-centre of gravity and inclination to drift into wide-areas Giresse has some similarities with Andres Iniesta and outside the carré magique should be considered a talismanic playmaker in his own right (as his 2nd place in the '82 Balon D'Or demonstrates). Thomas Haßler, a pivotal figure in the 80s and 90s German vintage, was a dyamic playmaker with his versatility and industry always coming to the fore. Blessed with a lovely touch and a low centre of gravity, the German along with Littbarski provided the flair to the German machine of the 80s & 90s. It is only testament to his quality that his performances in the 92 Euros, invited comparisons with Maradona's 86 WC displays.


OFFENSE

The spearhead Alberto Spencer was THE complete centre forward with searing pace, devastating aerial prowess, jinxing dribbling, dynamism and unerring finishing. Be it dropping deep and going on a may run, drifting out to the flanks before cutting in with his devastating pace or his explosive finishing in the box, Spencer was a fearsome forward with quite the array of weapons in his arsenal - simply put, Spencer is one of the greatest centre forwards ever. With Tostao in tandem and the creative cast behind him, he'll be in his element and raring to hit the back of the net again.

In the second striker role we have upgraded to the ideal player in Tostão, one of the all-time great Brazilian players who married intelligent playmaking with ruthless finishing. Not only was the forward capable of playing the facilitative foil as Pele would testify, his ruthless goalscoring prowess meant that he scored 249 goals in 378 matches for Cruzeirio and 32 goals in 54 caps for the Selecao. In this role there isn't a player in the draft we would choose ahead of Tostão, his supreme left-foot and natural inclination to drift out wide exactly what the team needs tactically, and his intricate technical quality on the ball well-set to optimise Alberto Spencer and pose significant problems for the opposition backline.


Key Points
  • Tostao looks set to play a starring role in this battle with the Brazilian capable of taking full advantage of the explosive and physical Spencer's leading the drift line (in many ways similar to his partnership with Pele) and his ease on the left flanks and channels is critical to our set up. The Khurtsilava-Leandro axis could find it tough to get a handle on the nifty Brazilian. Khurtsilava was a fine centre back but Tostao isn't the type of a forward he'll relish facing and if Leandro is too adventurous, Tostao will exploit those gaps on the left flank to deadly effects.

  • The side is bolstered by several inspirational leaders, especially at the back - 82 WC winning captain D.Zoff, La Grande Inter's captain Picchi and skipper of the great 70s Gladbach side Vogts and Dutch icon Van Bronchorst. The side will offer sturdy resistance at the back with the resolute and the inspirational rearguard .

  • Michael has an excellent side which is easy to visualize. Saying that, perhaps his forward trio could have used a more dynamic selfless foil to elevate the other duo. Both Hazard and Salah were individualistic inside forwards who loved cutting in and weren't too dynamic when not in possession. Whilst he admittedly does have two wingbacks, Charles's gameplay could have been better utilized with a dedicated wide forward with a good delivery.



Good luck @Michaelf7777777 @Joga Bonito @Theon!
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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For Joga, the left side of the defense looks worrisome to me.

Its facing a 2 vs 1 and Montero most times would be pulled wide to help Van Brankhorst, especially with an in cutting Salah.

Leandro putting in cross to Charles' head with Picchi and Vogts in the centre looks a likely route to goal.

For Michael, no idea why he benched Skoglund for this game. Bad mistake in my eyes.

Skoglund was an excellent and consistent crosser and would have really made Charles an even bigger asset here.
 

Physiocrat

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For Joga, the left side of the defense looks worrisome to me.

Its facing a 2 vs 1 and Montero most times would be pulled wide to help Van Brankhorst, especially with an in cutting Salah.

Leandro putting in cross to Charles' head with Picchi and Vogts in the centre looks a likely route to goal.

For Michael, no idea why he benched Skoglund for this game. Bad mistake in my eyes.

Skoglund was an excellent and consistent crosser and would have really made Charles an even bigger asset here.
Yep, Skoglund makes much more sense than Hazard. Proper left winger ahead of a more balanced LB
 

Joga Bonito

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I'm guessing you will setup as a 523/532 in defense and in possession mostly like the OP but with Gio forward on the left wing?
It is a zona mista (yup finally :lol:). That addition of Tostao was key imo. He was more or less the only player in the pool whom we really wanted for that SS spot, esp with his natural tendency to venture onto the left.


For Joga, the left side of the defense looks worrisome to me.

Its facing a 2 vs 1 and Montero most times would be pulled wide to help Van Brankhorst, especially with an in cutting Salah.

Leandro putting in cross to Charles' head with Picchi and Vogts in the centre looks a likely route to goal.

For Michael, no idea why he benched Skoglund for this game. Bad mistake in my eyes.

Skoglund was an excellent and consistent crosser and would have really made Charles an even bigger asset here.
His forward trio is relatively narrow and that compact unit of Montero-Picchi-Vogts are well placed in countering that imo. Didn't realize he had Skoglund on his bench, would have slotted in seamlessly. Leandro was a fine WB but he doesn't just have Van Bronckhorst to contend with but Tostao too, who was excellent at dropping off to the left flank channels.

:drool:

That's before we take Mackay into account here. Mackay was renowned for shoring up his side's left flank and for his ability to help out on the left both offensively and defensively (although it won't be required of him to do it to the extent that he did for Spurs, in this match in particular).
 

Physiocrat

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It is a zona mista (yup finally :lol:). That addition of Tostao was key imo. He was more or less the only player in the pool whom we really wanted for that SS spot, esp with his natural inclination to venture into the left.
I get that, I'm just trying to clarify exactly how it works . So would it be a 523/532 in the defensive phase?
 

Joga Bonito

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I get that, I'm just trying to clarify exactly how it works . So would it be a 523/532 in the defensive phase?
It'll be a back four but with Haßler dropping deep (keeping tab on Gemmell in line with his RM role) and Tostao dropping off to the left flank/channels.
 

Theon

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Ah so a 451 in defence then.
It’s a classic Zona Mista set up similar to the successful Juventus or Italy side of the 80’s – the only really specific things about it are a sweeper (which we have in the Catenaccio prototype Armando Picchi), a defensive right back (fulfilled by the gold-standard Berti Vogts) and then a fluid second striker comfortable in that Del Piero-esque half-space between left-wing and central forward (best in the draft in Tostão). None of those roles are that unique to be honest and I don’t think Salah’s role for example would be that different to Tostão’s given how often he drifts in.

Tactically it would operate in a similar fashion to your All-Time Italian side that you posted in one of the draft threads which has a clear Zona Mista slant to it. Last game you said the team looked well set for a Zona Mista outside a concern on Veron’s physicality in the CM roles – which hopefully we have answered with the non-stop dynamism and physicality of Seedorf of all people.


In terms of the defensive phase I wouldn’t put a label on it and I don’t think any system (let alone one as flexible as this) sticks to one shape in the defensive phase. At times I think you’re right that it would resemble a 4-5-1 if the team were pulled back into a deep defensive shape (perhaps defending a lead) with Tostão in a more structured defensive role on the left – equally likely though would be for the team to press high in a 4-3-3 set up or for Giresse to drop into midfield making it more of a 4-4-2. That's quite normal for teams given the ebb and flow of the game and the score at the time.

Defensively the Zona Mista has always been considered rock-solid when implemented correctly, obviously deriving from Herrera’s system which is notorious for how effective it was shutting out the opposition. On that tactical cohesiveness point it’s worth mentioning Hässler who also has a critical role here in given the requirement to get up and down effectively and contribute to both phases. Hard to think of many better than Hässler for that role, not only excellent technically (peaking at 4th in the Ballon d’Or, over 100 caps for Germany and scoring some outstanding goals for Roma) but also being exceptionally hard-working and comfortable dropping into deeper zones. Joga made a compilation of him the other week which he posted and he was almost driving from right wingback at times.
 

Physiocrat

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@Theon Thanks for the post. I get it's a classic Zona Mista, I've never got a great explanation of how it works especially in defence and haven't specifically watched for it in games.
 
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Joga Bonito

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A couple of points to get things rolling.

1) Spencer vs Charles. We feel we've surrounded the deadly Ecuadorian with the right creative cast with a varied supply line. There's plenty of creativity and ingenuity with the likes of Tostao, Giresse, Haßler and Seedorf amongst others. Furthermore he's bound to get ample aerial service from Haßler and van Bronckhorst from out wide. Haßler in particular had a lovely lofted ball on him and Spencer is the last forward whom you'd want to be facing with such a multi faceted supply line supporting him. Charles was a great center forward too but i don't see the forward line as being conducive to his style of forward play. Apart from his wing backs*, I struggle to see great chemistry between him and his fellow inside forwards who were extremely individualistic and not the type of forwards (just one of them is fine though obviously), whom you'd pair with Charles imo.

*2) Our work rate off the ball and our dynamism in possession could very well give us the edge here. From Seedorf and Mackay forming a resolute and a dynamic pairing, Giresse being the elusive probing presence that he is, Haßler shuttling up and down that right flank, the ubiquitous Tostao ghosting into pockets, to Spencer very much playing a free roaming role, capable of bursting into life with a sudden explosive mazy run - it's a side that's bursting with dynamism, fluidity and industry in fine balance with flair and creative genius.

Now this brings me to a key point, to what extent do Gemmell and Leandro have license to venture forward here and play their natural games? Hazard and Salah weren't the most hardworking players nor the most dynamic players, buzzing about and constantly making runs in possession (roles played by Mane, Firminho or Willian, Pedro etc). Now not much footage is available of Charles but from what I've seen of him, he wasn't the most dynamic of players, both in and off possession. That forward trio calls for a different centre forward or a wide forward instead of 2 inside forwards who'd always be looking to cut in (which plays right into our hands with the defense that we are sporting).

Now throw Bochini into the equation, very much your cerebral but extremely lackadaisical and not-so-mobile #10 into the equation and it only serves to make things worse imo. Don't get me wrong, they are all fantastic individuals and it's especially nice to see Bochini playing a key role, but i do have a hard time seeing that forward line thriving.

Which brings me back to my original point, just how much freedom will those wing backs have to make those critical runs forward - not just supporting runs but active overlapping ones to the byline, given the narrow inside forwards who'd predominantly be looking to cut inside. You have four relatively lackadaisical forwards up front who aren't necessarily going to put in a shift and Goncalves, who was very much an astute holding midfielder who could be physical but primarily relied on his exceptional positioning. I definitely wouldn't use him as the DM if one of the job requisites was to cover for two extremely adventurous wing backs, with two relatively lackadaisical inside forwards ahead of them - that's something I could see Davids or Mackay excelling at for instance.
 
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