The wing back issue

[Raoul]

I think we all know the club will strengthen the central midfield area next however does anyone else feel that the wing back conundrum needs fixing equally?

Dorgu hasn’t moved the needle, Amad lacks defensive nous and Dalot has been poor in the main on both sides. Mazraoui is far better as a CB and Shaw we are yet to see play it but seemingly will lack the physical ability to provide what’s required.

This area of the pitch is really important in a three at the back system and it feels we are nowhere near establishing who should play either role.

Yes. We need a world class LWB and I suspect we will go after one in the summer.

Dorgu was a winter window panic buy following a calamatous December. I can't imagine that Amorim specifically asked for Dorgu either - more likely he told Wilcox and Vivell he wanted a pacy LWB and they then presented him with Dorgu

 

[Isotope]

Historically, Spain and Brazil have these typical attacking WB that seems like they're on drugs. They look small, but can run up and down for 90 minutes.

But ideally we should find a Shaw regen. He'll be great as LWB, and as fullback (if somehow we go back to back four system).

 

[TheNewEra]

Yes, but we are building a squad here.

In the summer I think we will have 300m to spend because Rashford and Højlund will be made permanent and we should be in Europe. We might sell Zirzkee and we will have Other players out I think maybe Case thinking forward.

I think we will do 150-200m on the midfield, 40m on a first team class wing back and a #9 (rotation).

 

[Irwin99]

Dorgu will get better and I think he will be a good squad option but I think we do need a much more creative LWB.

Amad has really surprised me as I didn’t think the manager would play him there but he’s done well.

 

[TheNewEra]

Dorgu will get better and I think he will be a good squad option but I think we do need a much more creative LWB.

Amad has really surprised me as I didn’t think the manager would play him there but he’s done well.

I think he will get better too, he has all the raw ingredients but ultimately he needs a season or two.

He isn't ready made but I think he can be top class. I don't think Dalot will be part of a title winning squad though.

Amad is the reason we don't have Quenda imo.

 

[gaffs]

This is the issue with Amorim and his system / formation. It has meant that very serviceable players, like Mazraoui, become surplus to requirements.

I would like to see more of Amad at RWB, and him playing that possition consistently. One thing i dont like is the fact he is left footed. We have seen a few times him hesitating to put in a ball with his right foot when on the overlap, as he wants to use the left.

A perfect example was v Fulham....

If Amad uses his right, it's a tap in for Casemiro. But he runs around the ball in order to use his left and takes a weak, low percentage shot and the defenders further close down the angle.

I don't see the value in having two left footers in Amad and Mbeuno on the same flank - crosses and cut backs are such a powerful weapon, but we are essentially passing up on that with Amad at RWB.

It could well be that we are looking for an entire refresh of our midfielder two and our wing backs.

 

[gaffs]

Dalot really needs to have a good look at himself - he been poor and a liability every single game.

I would agree. But to be fair to him, he has been asked to play at a LWB recently. He is not much good at right wing back, so what are we to expect from him on the wrong side?

 

[Leftback99]

This is the issue with Amorim and his system / formation. It has meant that very serviceable players, like Mazraoui, become surplus to requirements.

I would like to see more of Amad at RWB, and him playing that possition consistently. One thing i dont like is the fact he is left footed. We have seen a few times him hesitating to put in a ball with his right foot when on the overlap, as he wants to use the left.

A perfect example was v Fulham....

If Amad uses his right, it's a tap in for Casemiro. But he runs around the ball in order to use his left and takes a weak, low percentage shot and the defenders further close down the angle.

I don't see the value in having two left footers in Amad and Mbeuno on the same flank - crosses and cut backs are such a powerful weapon, but we are essentially passing up on that with Amad at RWB.

It could well be that we are looking for an entire refresh of our midfielder two and our wing backs.

Our goal came from an Amad cross yesterday.

 

[Ekeke]

I think we all know the club will strengthen the central midfield area next however does anyone else feel that the wing back conundrum needs fixing equally?

Dorgu hasn’t moved the needle, Amad lacks defensive nous and Dalot has been poor in the main on both sides. Mazraoui is far better as a CB and Shaw we are yet to see play it but seemingly will lack the physical ability to provide what’s required.

This area of the pitch is really important in a three at the back system and it feels we are nowhere near establishing who should play either role.

I think we should certainly be looking at a wingback and CB as well as midfielders unless we're going to throw Diego Leon into things for the 2nd half of the season to see how he does

But I dont think Amad's defending is an issue. Its enough for a wingback. If you want better you need to play fullbacks and wingers and we know he isnt going to change that

 

[FromTheBench]

I think we should certainly be looking at a wingback and CB as well as midfielders unless we're going to throw Diego Leon into things for the 2nd half of the season to see how he does

But I dont think Amad's defending is an issue. Its enough for a wingback. If you want better you need to play fullbacks and wingers and we know he isnt going to change that

Having seen Diego Leon in U21s he also seems more suited to a Fullback role rather than Wingback.

Dorgu coming good or Amass maybe a better bet in a wingback role with his crossing.

Diouf at West Ham is a interesting one to keep a eye on. Also Hartman from Burnley.

 

[gaffs]

:Our goal came from an Amad cross yesterday.

Just remind me what position Amad was playing at the time?

 

[jymufc20]

I’m assuming the club also want a pathway for Amass (and Leon). The former is having a good loan spell for Sheffield Wednesday.

We certainly don’t want to drop another Fernandez style cock up.

I still can't believe we let him go

 

[Leftback99]

Just remind me what position Amad was playing at the time?

A crossing position.

 

[Paul778]

It's such an important position for us we need to one quality one that is the finished article. Good in defence and good going forward.

Amad, Dorgu, Leon, Amass can all grow into the role but they need someone in the squad and in training who is the gold standard.

 

[gaffs]

A crossing position.

No one is saying he can’t cross with his left.

The issue is that on the overlap, when the ball is played towards the byline, he doesn’t want to use his right to square with a first time ball.

Mbeumo, being left footed, will want to play those balls through the lines, to break through a deep lying defense.

The image I shared was a case in point, and we have seen him squander a few of those this season.

 

[Ekeke]

I’m assuming the club also want a pathway for Amass (and Leon). The former is having a good loan spell for Sheffield Wednesday.

We certainly don’t want to drop another Fernandez style cock up.

People always mention him but he has 1 goal and 0 assists for a team playing much better than us, top of the league while Dorgu has 0 goals and 1 assist. Doesnt seem like he'd have been much better

 

[TheReligion]

People always mention him but he has 1 goal and 0 assists for a team playing much better than us, top of the league while Dorgu has 0 goals and 1 assist. Doesnt seem like he'd have been much better

Well that’s the issue isn’t it? We may as well have kept him and saved the Dorgu money

 

[Trigestis]

People always mention him but he has 1 goal and 0 assists for a team playing much better than us, top of the league while Dorgu has 0 goals and 1 assist. Doesnt seem like he'd have been much better

I get what you mean regarding Carreras, but it's not just about their output though, is it? Evra's numbers in the league weren't exactly spectacular, but he was ridiculously good.

How hard did you have to try to misinterpret that?

Real Madrid are top of the league

Just finished the F1 race and had a few beers and some rum alright. My bad

 

[Ekeke]

Well that’s the issue isn’t it? We may as well have kept him and saved the Dorgu money

Sure I agree with that, but then we'd still be asking about someone with more winger like qualities for the left wingback spot

Sheffield Wednesday, the team that is 24th in Championship is playing much better than us? What did I miss? Or are you talking about Real Madrid and Carreras?

How hard did you have to try to misinterpret that?

Real Madrid are top of the league

 

[Roux]

Hes not a LB, he's not a LWB, he's not a RWB. Mazraoui isn't a CB not is he a LB, or a LWB or a RWB.

It's not an excuse. They are both decent to good right backs. Been a while since they've had an extended spell as a normal full back on their normal side, confidence has nose dived, and now they are shells of the players they can be.

Dalot's position isn't his problem - it's his lack of concentration. He is caught out soo many times.

 

[MadDogg]

Dalot's position isn't his problem - it's his lack of concentration. He is caught out soo many times.

It probably is a bit of both to be fair. The only time since the start of last season that he's been at an acceptable level was in the February-April period, and that coincided with the only time that he's played almost exclusively on the right. He seemed better defensively and also quite a bit more effective in attack.

The rest of the time he's been playing mostly on the left or constantly bouncing from side to side.

 

[Mainoonited]

We've banked on youth in Dorgu and Leon, but i think we should try for someone like Antonee Robinson, an experienced player who can do a 7/10 job regularly.

 

[TheNewEra]

We've banked on youth in Dorgu and Leon, but i think we should try for someone like Antonee Robinson, an experienced player who can do a 7/10 job regularly.

I'm sure we will if we have the cash because we go for priority signings and right now its the CMs a backup #9 since Zirzkee gets 0 game time and the LWB

 

[ZorinGorilla]

Dorgu isn't there yet and may never be, Dalot is braindead and Amad is no defender. Maz' introduction on Saturday wasn't great, either, he plays best as a CB under the system

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Absolutely is yes. Dorgu is too green and Dalot being his backup says it all as he's not even good enough to play on the right never mind the left.

LWB and CM are equal priority for me.

I think Amad is a good wing back who's still learning the role but he's striking up a good understanding with Mbeumo. Just need cover for that side.

It's a shame Shaw hasn't got the legs for that role any more because we're well covered at CB. If we're looking in the PL then I like the look of Antonee Robinson (depending on how he comes back from his injury) and Malick Diouf at West Ham who's got a hell of a cross on him.

 

[DJ_21]

Dimarco would be a terrific signing. He’s 28 but still a lot of years left in him. His deliveries for Inter are quality.

 

[goldenboy]

We've banked on youth in Dorgu and Leon, but i think we should try for someone like Antonee Robinson, an experienced player who can do a 7/10 job regularly.

If we're looking in the PL then I like the look of Antonee Robinson (depending on how he comes back from his injury) and Malick Diouf at West Ham who's got a hell of a cross on him.

Dimarco would be a terrific signing. He’s 28 but still a lot of years left in him. His deliveries for Inter are quality.

Full-backs tend to peak the earliest out of all outfield positions, as so much of the role is just about running.

I wouldn't want to put much faith in 28 year-old Robinson who has missed months with repeated knee injuries over the last year, or 28 year-old DiMarco who is not the quickest anyway. They'd cost a fair amount and be on a decent wage, but you'd want them gone already after a season or two max. But then they may be hard to shift.

 

[DJ_21]

Full-backs tend to peak the earliest out of all outfield positions, as so much of the role is just about running.

I wouldn't want to put much faith in 28 year-old Robinson who has missed months with repeated knee injuries over the last year, or 28 year-old DiMarco who is not the quickest anyway. They'd cost a fair amount and be on a decent wage, but you'd want them gone already after a season or two max. But then they may be hard to shift.

But we also don’t want a 21 year old who has room to improve right?

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Full-backs tend to peak the earliest out of all outfield positions, as so much of the role is just about running.

I wouldn't want to put much faith in 28 year-old Robinson who has missed months with repeated knee injuries over the last year, or 28 year-old DiMarco who is not the quickest anyway. They'd cost a fair amount and be on a decent wage, but you'd want them gone already after a season or two max. But then they may be hard to shift.

His injuries are a concern but if he's over them I'd be happy to have someone experienced with Dorgu/Leon learning the role.

 

[Raoul]

Dimarco would be a terrific signing. He’s 28 but still a lot of years left in him. His deliveries for Inter are quality.

Mendes or Di Marco would be my top two as well. Both high quality upgrades to what we have now.

 

[Bert_]

Wing Back Plan R.

Very good

 

[Zico1982]

Amad is too weak defensively and Dorgu need to improve on his decision making going forward. Dalot has proven that he can be a really good player, but he isn´t in his present form. Shaw has not got the legs for the job and Leon is even more raw than Dorgu. That seems to be the view in here. The wing back situation is a total chaos, or is it really? I don´t think so. I think that Dorgu and Leon/Amass will be our LB/LWB for many years to come. We have bought raw, but raw only gets better by playing and that is what is happening. We just need a little patience to make it work. I also think that Amad/Dalot are viable options for a good while on the right side despite Dalot searching for decent form at the moment. The portuguese is the only one I would consider swapping for someone else right now.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Personally I'm not concerned about wingback at all. Amad has made the right his own. Mazraoui is decent cover there. Dorgu will get better. Amass will return ready to challenge on the left. Its possible one or both Leon and mantato will be ready to be viable cover next season. Dalot is better cover right than left. Next summer midfield must be the priority above all else

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Mendes or Di Marco would be my top two as well. Both high quality upgrades to what we have now.

PSG Mendes? That would be a transfer coup. Di Marco would be a great signing even though we have limited success with serie A players.

 

[Dominos]

It's one of the problems with this system.

You really want wingbacks who simultaneously have the attacking quality of a winger and the defensive quality of a fullback. And you need 4 of them, to cover for injuries/rotation.

These players are really hard to find. You get full backs who don't have the necessary attacking quality like Dorgu, Dalot and Mazraoui. Or you play wingers there who get defensively exposed like Amad the last two games.

 

[gaffs]

Any team that has used a system with wing backs, usually has a pair of really productive players in those positions, as they become a huge feature of the team - especially going forward. There would be no reason to employ a system that should allow your full backs / wing backs far more freedom to attack, while sacrificing a man in midfield, if you didn't have wing backs that were very strong.

But our manager wants to do things the other way round. He wants to implement the system, and hopefully gets enough time to sign the players he needs to make it all work. And i think having two very strong wingbacks is critical.

We need to move for a couple of wing backs over the summer. There are few teams playing with wing backs, so that means going for players that can fit the bill that may be currently playing as a winger or full back. We have to be careful to not sign players that can only play as a wing back.

We should move on players like Dalot and Mazraoui. I like Maz, but he is a victim of this system.

 

[goldenboy]

His injuries are a concern but if he's over them I'd be happy to have someone experienced with Dorgu/Leon learning the role.

He has been out with them twice now this year for extended periods - even if he returns, it's at the point where it could become a reoccurring issue.

Amass will return ready to challenge on the left.

No he won't.

Its possible one or both Leon and mantato will be ready to be viable cover next season.

They won't either.

I'm not convinced either of Amass or Leon will ever be United quality. And even if they will become able to be at least squad options, they are still at least 18 months away from it given how far they need to progress. I haven't really got a good read on Mantato's potential tbh, but he's 17.

These players are really hard to find. You get full backs who don't have the necessary attacking quality like Dorgu, Dalot and Mazraoui. Or you play wingers there who get defensively exposed like Amad the last two games.

A winger who would get less exposed there defensively would be Yan Diomande...

 

[Todd]

Once Licha is fit, our best bet is to bring him into the back three and play Shaw at left wingback.

We know Shaw has the attacking abilities and he has done a remarkable job of staying fit so far. I don't think anyone would argue that a fit Shaw isn't our best bet as far as attack-minded defenders go.

We really have nothing to lose, as our other options (Dalot and Dorgu) aren't very good. Shaw couldn't possibly perform any worse than the others, and there's a great chance that he'd actually perform well in that advanced role.

 

[gaffs]

Once Licha is fit, our best bet is to bring him into the back three and play Shaw at left wingback.

We know Shaw has the attacking abilities and he has done a remarkable job of staying fit so far. I don't think anyone would argue that a fit Shaw isn't our best bet as far as attack-minded defenders go.

We really have nothing to lose, as our other options (Dalot and Dorgu) aren't very good. Shaw couldn't possibly perform any worse than the others, and there's a great chance that he'd actually perform well in that advanced role.

Luke Shaw would pull a groin just at the thought of having to run up and down the touchline all game at wing back.

There is a reason he is playing at left center back - he doesn't have that mobility, speed or stamina any more.

 

[Shalu@156]

Someone physical with stamina, reasonable cross and footballing brain a bit? Ya.. never gonna happen.