Theoretical Scenario, you're the DoF for Unted and have been asked to put together a midfield three ala Neves, Ruiz and Vitiniha. Who do you buy?

dinostar77

Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
9,901
Forgetting lack of European football and money problems aside. You've been asked to create a midfield trio like peak Casemiro, Kroos, Modric or iniesta, Xavi, Busqutes.

Only limitation is they have to be 24 years old or younger. A midfield three to dominate for years. Also semi realistic transfers that Utd could pull off who aren't first team players at the giant European clubs already.

Ps..forget amorim formation for this, it's a 3 for a 433.
 
Last edited:
Realistically I’d love a midfield three of
———————Wharton——————
———Mainoo—————Baleba———

If Bruno goes those are the signings we should prioritise.
 
Don't think they'd work week in week out in the EPL if I'm honest. Nearly came unstuck against Villa
 
Don't think they'd work week in week out in the EPL if I'm honest. Nearly came unstuck against Villa
A point so many of these hypothetical questions miss. People always counter this by saying oh they beat the PL teams or even going back the Real or Barca midfield trios people point out they dominated PL teams.

But it's one thing doing it over 2 legs when you don't have to play at that intensity week in week out in your domestic league. It's completely another doing it every weekend and then midweek as well. If the PSG midfield, or even Real or Barca's famed trios played in the PL, they would undoubtedly be very good but they would suffer far more injuries. They wouldn't be as effective every week.

So the question is are you trying to just build a trio that can turn up in the CL to dominate games or are you trying to build a trio to win the PL? The answer to both these questions would be very different.
 
I think you'd have to try and use Mainoo as one and hope you can mould him into becoming that type of player. Wharton another, not really sure for the third.
 
Don't think they'd work week in week out in the EPL if I'm honest. Nearly came unstuck against Villa
Of course they would be capable, as if similar midfields at City weren’t winning the majority of leagues in the past 10 years. Fernandinho, David Silva and De Bruyne, with Gundogan on rotation won 100 points in a season.
 
A point so many of these hypothetical questions miss. People always counter this by saying oh they beat the PL teams or even going back the Real or Barca midfield trios people point out they dominated PL teams.

But it's one thing doing it over 2 legs when you don't have to play at that intensity week in week out in your domestic league. It's completely another doing it every weekend and then midweek as well. If the PSG midfield, or even Real or Barca's famed trios played in the PL, they would undoubtedly be very good but they would suffer far more injuries. They wouldn't be as effective every week.

So the question is are you trying to just build a trio that can turn up in the CL to dominate games or are you trying to build a trio to win the PL? The answer to both these questions would be very different.
The mythical Premier League again.

Liverpool walked the league in 2019-2020 with Henderson, Fabinho and Wijnaldum/Milner in it, but yeah Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets wouldn't be as effective every week in the same league as in La Liga.
 
The mythical Premier League again.

Liverpool walked the league in 2019-2020 with Henderson, Fabinho and Wijnaldum/Milner in it, but yeah Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets wouldn't be as effective every week in the same league as in La Liga.
Yes because the Liverpool midfield is exactly the same profile as Barca's. You are just proving what I said. The kind of midfield needed to win the PL is very different from the profile of players Barca had or PSG have. Doesn't mean they couldn't be successful in the PL but it would be much more of a struggle for them.
 
Realistically I’d love a midfield three of
———————Wharton——————
———Mainoo—————Baleba———

If Bruno goes those are the signings we should prioritise.
My exact reply.
 
Yes because the Liverpool midfield is exactly the same profile as Barca's. You are just proving what I said. The kind of midfield needed to win the PL is very different from the profile of players Barca had or PSG have. Doesn't mean they couldn't be successful in the PL but it would be much more of a struggle for them.
When are people going to stop this nonsense?

They dominated far better midfields in Europe or even their own league, and teams like Stoke and West Ham are going to make them struggle?

Come on. City dominated the league with Fernandinho, De Bruyne and Silva. That's a very good midfield. The Barcelona trio is even superior.
 
When are people going to stop this nonsense?

They dominated far better midfields in Europe or even their own league, and teams like Stoke and West Ham are going to make them struggle?

Come on. City dominated the league with Fernandinho, De Bruyne and Silva. That's a very good midfield. The Barcelona trio is even superior.
Yes they did and all 3 could run way more and were more physical than the Barca or PSG trio. And even Pep realized that to continue being successful in the PL you need to add more physicality which he did as his teams have evolved.

This is no nonsense, there's a reason no serious coach has tried to replicate the PSG midfield in the PL. Again there's big difference in being able to do it 6/7 times in Europe a season to do it more or less every weekend in the league. The whole physical conditioning of the players throughout the season would have to be managed very differently.
 
Yes they did and all 3 could run way more and were more physical than the Barca or PSG trio. And even Pep realized that to continue being successful in the PL you need to add more physicality which he did as his teams have evolved.

This is no nonsense, there's a reason no serious coach has tried to replicate the PSG midfield in the PL. Again there's big difference in being able to do it 6/7 times in Europe a season to do it more or less every weekend in the league. The whole physical conditioning of the players throughout the season would have to be managed very differently.
We don't watch the same PSG trio.

And we definitely didn't watch the same Barcelona trio.

Pep added more physicality, because it's impossible to replicate that Barcelona midfield. If he had a choice between the City trio and the Barcelona trio, do you actually think he'd pick the City trio? Be serious.
 
Realistically I’d love a midfield three of
———————Wharton——————
———Mainoo—————Baleba———

If Bruno goes those are the signings we should prioritise.

It's also perfectly plausible but won't happen unless Amorim knocked his head against the wall. United for the foreseeable future will be a jammy double pivot.
 
Realistically I’d love a midfield three of
———————Wharton——————
———Mainoo—————Baleba———

If Bruno goes those are the signings we should prioritise.
This lacks almost all the creativity and finesse of the PSG 3
 
You can't realistically do it in 1 window. I genuinely believe, if you play 3 in midfield you should be signing a CM every single summer. Not for crazy amounts of money, but just give yourself options, get potential and know it's one position that will actually get loads of game time.

You need 5 first team, and you could have a revolving door at that point to get one-in, one-out
 
Yes they did and all 3 could run way more and were more physical than the Barca or PSG trio. And even Pep realized that to continue being successful in the PL you need to add more physicality which he did as his teams have evolved.

This is no nonsense, there's a reason no serious coach has tried to replicate the PSG midfield in the PL. Again there's big difference in being able to do it 6/7 times in Europe a season to do it more or less every weekend in the league. The whole physical conditioning of the players throughout the season would have to be managed very differently.
Just not true, David Silva was worse physically than any player in those two midfields. Busquets and Ruiz are bigger than anyone in City’s midfield.
 
I like him but I don't know if that would be the most balanced midfield in combination with the other two players. Obviously far better than what we have currently though.
 
Not possible 2 were recruited from Portugal (Benfica and Porto) and 1 from Italy (Napoli). You can’t take players from farmer’s leagues and hope to achieve anything. This Paris has to be shit, they have no PL proven players… They’d struggle to make top half in the PL.
 
Just not true, David Silva was worse physically than any player in those two midfields. Busquets and Ruiz are bigger than anyone in City’s midfield.

David Silva is PL proven though, Busquets would get eaten alive by Charlie Adam and Steve Sidwell mate and if it is raining, then forget about it! These tiny little foreigners wouldn't be able to stand a chance against the physicality and the weather.
 
We don't watch the same PSG trio.

And we definitely didn't watch the same Barcelona trio.

Pep added more physicality, because it's impossible to replicate that Barcelona midfield. If he had a choice between the City trio and the Barcelona trio, do you actually think he'd pick the City trio? Be serious.
Are you deliberately being obtuse? I've said it at least 3 times now that the whole reason PSG can play with such intensity in European matches is they don't need to do it in their league every week. They can condition their players accordingly.

Why didn't Pep sign the PSG midfield here? Money wasn't really the issue for them. I think there's a reason maybe he realized you can't replicate what happens in La Liga or Ligue 1 here.

And was for your point about Pep not being able to replicate Barca's midfield, you yourself said City's initial midfield under him wasn't the most physical and yet quite successful ( though I think they were still more physical than Barca's). Yet he changed strategies moving forward because he realized it wasn't something that was going to be sustainable here in the long run. Sure he perhaps couldn't have copied the quality of the Barca trio, but if he certainly could have found similar profiles.
 
This lacks almost all the creativity and finesse of the PSG 3
Not sure it does. Wharton is in the Carrick/Busquets mould, a great play making number 6. Beleba is all action, but he’s very good on the ball, be it press resistance or progressive carries. Mainoo we obviously all know his weaknesses physically, but there’s no doubt in my mind he could become a top midfielder in the right settup. Physically and technically those three have the potential to be world class, and while it’s definitely not as silky as the PSG trio, it could be just as effective if they all develop as hoped.
 
Are you deliberately being obtuse? I've said it at least 3 times now that the whole reason PSG can play with such intensity in European matches is they don't need to do it in their league every week. They can condition their players accordingly.

Why didn't Pep sign the PSG midfield here? Money wasn't really the issue for them. I think there's a reason maybe he realized you can't replicate what happens in La Liga or Ligue 1 here.

And was for your point about Pep not being able to replicate Barca's midfield, you yourself said City's initial midfield under him wasn't the most physical and yet quite successful ( though I think they were still more physical than Barca's). Yet he changed strategies moving forward because he realized it wasn't something that was going to be sustainable here in the long run. Sure he perhaps couldn't have copied the quality of the Barca trio, but if he certainly could have found similar profiles.
You’re kind of talking around in circles. You spent three paragraphs dancing around the fact that Guardiola played a midfield with a 6 and two 10s (D. Silva - Fernandinho - de Bruyne) and they absolutely mopped up. Later he introduced the absolute physical specimens… Foden and B. Silva. And they kept winning.
 
Are you deliberately being obtuse? I've said it at least 3 times now that the whole reason PSG can play with such intensity in European matches is they don't need to do it in their league every week. They can condition their players accordingly.

Why didn't Pep sign the PSG midfield here? Money wasn't really the issue for them. I think there's a reason maybe he realized you can't replicate what happens in La Liga or Ligue 1 here.

And was for your point about Pep not being able to replicate Barca's midfield, you yourself said City's initial midfield under him wasn't the most physical and yet quite successful ( though I think they were still more physical than Barca's). Yet he changed strategies moving forward because he realized it wasn't something that was going to be sustainable here in the long run. Sure he perhaps couldn't have copied the quality of the Barca trio, but if he certainly could have found similar profiles.

You're the one waffling here mate.

You said a midfield of De Bruyne, Silva and Fernandinho is way more physical than Ruiz, Neves and Vitinha.

2nd bolded: I mean that reeks of more bias towards the Premier League. Sorry, but I am not buying it.

I am pretty sure Pep would swap out City's current midfield right now for the PSG midfield. And the later point again reeks of more PL bias.

If De Bruyne, Silva and Fernandinho can dominate the league, then I'm pretty sure the best midfield trio(Barca's) of all time can.

He changed some strategies moving forward, because David Silva was no longer in the team and he stopped employing a false 9 after their 2021-2022 season. He decided to gain numerical superiority in midfield via full-backs inverting in or a center-back stepping into midfield(Stones). Either way, he still employed Bernado Silva and Foden in the teams playing pivotal roles. Hardly physical monsters.
 
You're the one waffling here mate.

You said a midfield of De Bruyne, Silva and Fernandinho is way more physical than Ruiz, Neves and Vitinha.

2nd bolded: I mean that reeks of more bias towards the Premier League. Sorry, but I am not buying it.

I am pretty sure Pep would swap out City's current midfield right now for the PSG midfield. And the later point again reeks of more PL bias.

If De Bruyne, Silva and Fernandinho can dominate the league, then I'm pretty sure the best midfield trio(Barca's) of all time can.

He changed some strategies moving forward, because David Silva was no longer in the team and he stopped employing a false 9 after their 2021-2022 season. He decided to gain numerical superiority in midfield via full-backs inverting in or a center-back stepping into midfield(Stones). Either way, he still employed Bernado Silva and Foden in the teams playing pivotal roles. Hardly physical monsters.
Had I known you were writing this, I wouldn’t have bothered with my post : )
 
You’re kind of talking around in circles. You spent three paragraphs dancing around the fact that Guardiola played a midfield with a 6 and two 10s (D. Silva - Fernandinho - de Bruyne) and they absolutely mopped up. Later he introduced the absolute physical specimens… Foden and B. Silva. And they kept winning.
Physicality doesn't mean size, does it? Yes Foden and Bernardo are way more physical than David Silva in terms of the distance they cover in a game and their ability to press and sprint back. De Bryune until age has caught up with him was great at this as well. And they proved they could do it every weekend and mid week. The PSG team just had to do it 6-7 times a season in Europe. They don't need to play with this intensity every week in Ligue 1 and neither do they actually need to be at full strength to win matches domestically.
 
Physicality doesn't mean size, does it? Yes Foden and Bernardo are way more physical than David Silva in terms of the distance they cover in a game and their ability to press and sprint back. De Bryune until age has caught up with him was great at this as well. And they proved they could do it every weekend and mid week. The PSG team just had to do it 6-7 times a season in Europe. They don't need to play with this intensity every week in Ligue 1 and neither do they actually need to be at full strength to win matches domestically.
I mean if we're going to keep repeating this, we have very different viewpoints and we can just agree to disagree.
 
Forgetting lack of European football and money problems aside. You've been asked to create a midfield trio like peak Casemiro, Kroos, Modric or iniesta, Xavi, Busqutes.

Only limitation is they have to be 24 years old or younger. A midfield three to dominate for years. Also semi realistic transfers that Utd could pull off who aren't first team players at the giant European clubs already.

Ps..forget amorim formation for this, it's a 3 for a 433.
It is impossible to do so in one go, now more than ever. These things cannot be forced or done on a whim or you end up wasting money on “fool's gold”.

Players with the appropriate ingredients (press-resistance and expertise on the half-turn, a real sense of purpose and intensity in their play, sumptuous technique allied with good field-vision, requisite application levels on the off the pitch et cetera) have to be there for you to sign them.
  • Real Madrid signed Modrić in 2012, Kroos in 2014 and activated Casemiro's buyback clause in 2015.
  • At Barcelona, Xavi became a first team player in 1998, Iniesta was a peripheral figure until 2004 and Busquets became a first team player in 2008.
  • Paris SG double-dipped for Vitinha and Ruiz in 2022 but had to wait till 2024 for Neves.
  • Manchester City signed De Bruyne in 2015, Gündogan in 2016, Bernardo in 2017 and Rodri in 2019.
Someone like Neves, on his own, is an absolute anomaly, with regard to how consequential he is and how much he can contribute in so many different segments.

Screenshot-2025-06-01.png


https://datamb.football/midfielders/

Recruiting the components of a high-caliber midfield can be be a multi-year year project, even if the scouting processes are right and the players in question are appropriately developed. And simply recruiting the components is not enough even if they are functionally symbiotic and have a bit of chemistry, you need a high-caliber coach, à la Pep Guardiola or Luis Enrique, to fine-tune them, put them in roles that accentuate their strengths and amplify the collective effect.

Given a reasonable 3 year time-frame to turn things around, I would probably sign Ayyoub Bouaddi from Lille this very summer. Then try to secure Max Dowman from Arsenal by any means necessary, to be repurposed as an interior No. 10 (he isn't eligible for a professional contract until his 17th birthday at the end of 2026). These players have the skillset to reach the very top, in due time. And then be on the look-out for a metronomic, press-resitant No. 6 or No. 8. Instinctively feel Marc Bernal is the one but he signed a contract with Barcelona till 2030 and has no reason to leave Pedri's side when they could constitute a midfield for the ages, with Barcelona as well as with Spain. Maybe Rafael Quintas from Benfica, instead?
 
Affordable and young options, with my limited knowledge of only EPL and BL, could be Baleba, Stiller and Xavi Simons. Baleba I honestly haven't seen play but the kid is hyped up alot and I can't think of any other young DM :lol: Anton Stach at Hoffenheim did really well this season but he's a bit older.

The difficulty is replicating Neves, replacements for Vitinha and Ruiz should be doable. He's a unicorn in that number 6 position because he's shown an ability to basically do everything. From high defensive action numbers to also high chance creation. They only young player I can think of who can do that duel role is Tom Bischoff, but he's going to Bayern and is a more attacking player than Neves.

It's so maddening to think that we were looking at Zubimendi and Ugarte over the summer and no one batted an eye on this kid, though he was regarded as really talented even before.

Edit: Just thought we could have Ezequiel Palacios as the DM instead of Baleba.
 
Last edited:
I mean if we're going to keep repeating this, we have very different viewpoints and we can just agree to disagree.
Fair enough mate.

Just regarding your point of PL bias, yes I do think the PL is a far better and physical league than La Liga or Ligue 1. Maybe you don't agree with that and hence we have different opinions and that's fair enough. People are allowed to disagree :)
 
Realistically I’d love a midfield three of
———————Wharton——————
———Mainoo—————Baleba———

If Bruno goes those are the signings we should prioritise.
Too slow. Vitinha is unique because he can and will dribble someone. That’s why he’s a nightmare, because usually those great passers tend to not be that dynamic - Scholes, pirlo, Carrick, Alonso, Xavi etc. Vitinha is like a winger who happens to have elite passing and plays 6.

I agree though in general. PL midfield needs to be different. PSG struggled with both Villa and striker less Arsenal.