There’s a feeling of inevitability about Ole losing his job

Brad_Piff

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 15, 2020
Messages
3
I agree with this thread, however I'm not sure he will lose his job at the end of the season. Let's be honest, Ole going on the furlough scheme would be awful to see...

Joking aside, this season is probably a write off for most owners - they generally care about performance of the club (on and off the field) over a longer time horizon - and with so much uncertainty with regards to the future of the sport, what you really want is stability in terms of club structure until the dust has settled in terms of fans, sponsorships, TV rights, etc.

Once that becomes clearer to everyone, then you will see a lot of shuffling around, not just in managers but possibly even organisational structures (thinking director of football etc.)

Saying that though, his position will become untenable if we lose the next 4-5 games, which is a real possibility considering the run of games we have, so let's see
 

Lebowski

Full Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
460
Location
Collyhurst
How many players did United buy since Klopp became Liverpool coach?
I can't be arsed to sort back through previous managers and its less relevant to the question of 'did Klopp need transfers to succeed?' but by comparison Ole has signed 8 players (including Pellestri).
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
5,532
Who knows what order of preference the players are? It’s a tale the press spin in hindsight. With Ole, for example, there is every indication that Maguire was his first choice. That Wan Bissaka was his first choice. And yes, managers will get second and third choices until the end of time, due to the simple fact that we aren’t the only team in the market and more than one club cannot sign the same player.

Take Bellingham for example. People just go ‘ahh, shit recruitment team’. Players have choices, he went somewhere else. If his wish was to come to United, we’d have signed him. Reguilon and Haaland we opted against due to clauses insisted on, according to reports.

Ole’s ‘first choices’ are hardly that fecking creative. They are the best players on the market. It’s easy to walk into work and say ‘my first choice winger is Sancho and centre half is Upamecano’, and then throw a strop if they are not landed. These players are not easy to sign, and no club in recent times, maybe except Barcelona, has been able to just go and sign all of those types of players with similar status. City, Real - they have all missed out on players like Pogba, Sanchez, Havertz, Lautaro etc. If those are the sort of players managers are demanding before throwing a strop about recruitment teams and directors of football, they should go and get a PlayStation. There is little indication that we can’t sign some of the more attainable players easily. We, or almost any other club, will never be able to just land all the best players on the market.
Agree. The fact that the players he signed are playing worse than when they were signed is another worrying sign.
 

Leftback99

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
5,845
When we'd lose against Newcastle and we moan = Knee jerk

When we'd lose against PSG, and we moan = Knee jerk

When we'd lose against Chelsea and we moan = Knee jerk

When we'd lose against Leipzig and we moan = Knee jerk

When you'd look back and we lost 4 games in a row and we moan = Knee jerk because those are tough fixtures and Ole wasn't backed enough and the Glazers should just give him a blank cheque to make record signings to continue his rebuilding!!! Poch would only come and destroy this mega rebuild project!!!!

#OleTheRebuilder
4 PL games ago:
I was in the Ole out camp throughout the season, but even if we get 3rd or 4th come Sunday, I will say Ole deserves another season to make us contenders.
Knee jerk.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
5,532
Klopp is a weird example for making the best of what you've got. He's bought 24 players during his 5 years at Liverpool, that's essentially an entire brand new squad. He also won nothing and was on the end of several implosions and embarrassing losses until he bought the world's most expensive defender to fix his back line.

I'm not trying to downplay his achievement, he's a sensational manager and comparing him to Ole is foolish, but the example of Klopp shows how important it is to have the right structure in place to allow the manager to thrive. To target the right players and have the connection between recruitment and coaching to bring in the players who fit the style you're trying to play and get rid of the ones who don't.
Yes you are foolish. Klopp won big trophies at Dortmund before he took the Liverpool job. Ole got Cardiff relegated, but did win in a minor league. There is literally no comparison.
 

Lebowski

Full Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
460
Location
Collyhurst
Many of the clubs around us haven't even had their new signings establish themselves to conclude they've moved ahead of us. The dust has barely settled. At least wait till Cavani, Telles and Pellistri flop before saying we stood still relative to anyone. The premature writing off is what leads one to conclude people aren't keen on our latest acquisitions because of the absence of marquee names. Cavani for all we know right now could be starting by december. Same with Telles
You're missing my point.

We finished last season third, narrowly above the other teams battling for top 4.

The other teams above and below us signed players to improve their first eleven. We did not.

With all other things being equal, you would expect United to finish below those teams this season.

Now of course all other things aren't equal in football and we have no idea how this season will pan out and which signings will succeed. My point is merely that as illustrated above, Ole did what was expected of him last season. The club did not do what was expected of them this summer. As a result, even matching what we did last season will be more difficult.
 

Lebowski

Full Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
460
Location
Collyhurst
Yes you are foolish. Klopp won big trophies at Dortmund before he took the Liverpool job. Ole got Cardiff relegated, but did win in a minor league. There is literally no comparison.
Respectfully I don't think you've understood my post because nothing you wrote was remotely relevant to it.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
5,532
As I have said it before, fans expectations in terms of consistent and complete football is too high until we have a balanced team across all areas. Its simple but this message has been lost as we haven't had a balanced team with for last 10 years. But that's my perspective and its fine if majority don't agree with it. So I choose to look at various positive things that Ole has done.. when he had arrived it was no certainty but he has got Rashford and Martial firmly into established players. He can be credited for the emergence of Greenwood. People may shit on AWB right now but I am sure he is going to be an important player for years to come. In my books, he has done much better than Jose, LVG and Moyes combined!
On what do you base that? Moyes yes, but Mou and VG won trophies. All 4 are/were bad managers for where we are supposed to be and I would put Ole 3rd at the moment.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
4,008
You're missing my point.

We finished last season third, narrowly above the other teams battling for top 4.

The other teams above and below us signed players to improve their first eleven. We did not.

With all other things being equal, you would expect United to finish below those teams this season.

Now of course all other things aren't equal in football and we have no idea how this season will pan out and which signings will succeed. My point is merely that as illustrated above, Ole did what was expected of him last season. The club did not do what was expected of them this summer. As a result, even matching what we did last season will be more difficult.
I got your point, I didn't miss it, I disputed it. We have also improved our team and depending on how our signings pan, possibly as much maybe even more than some teams around us.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
2,240
You just that we'll look back on this thread in a few years time and laugh our titties off after Ole, Michael, Kieran and the gang gave us everything our hearts desired, and a little bit extra on top.
You’re my favourite poster.

Don’t think I’ve ever agreed with you but genuinely I read most of your posts with a smile on my face.
 

Gonçalo Motta

Full Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
231
Ole is not the solution but he is not the main/only problem either tbf. Take Ole out and bring Klopp in and the same issues would still remain with some better results along the way.

The team is mostly average or extremely inconsistent, Ole is a mid tier club coach at best and the board is borderline incompetent.

There's no plan, the panic buys are mind boggling and we keep overpaying for players that either don't have the quality to play for us or are inconsistent and underperform because they don't seem to give 2 f*cks. To make everything even worst we seem to get stuck with the players that we don't want but nobody else seems to want neither (looking at you Lingard).

Maguire being bought and promoted to capitan after a few months kinda shows how lost this club seems to be

If Mourinho wasn't so toxic I actually think he could have been the one to help turn this club around. Although I do agree with some of his rants, his way of dealing with issues makes it so easy to be against him
 
Last edited:

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
10,836
On what do you base that? Moyes yes, but Mou and VG won trophies. All 4 are/were bad managers for where we are supposed to be and I would put Ole 3rd at the moment.
I wouldn't put LVG ahead of him, with regards to his performance as a United manager. Bought loads who did not work out, sold many way below market value who could have been decent for us. Played the most boring football known to man. His best bits were his press conferences.

At least Ole has trimmed the squad a bit, sold players who needed to go. If his instructions are to "go out and enjoy yourself" (not saying it is...) than that's better than van Gaal's neutralise instinct methods. It's not much, just that I think van Gaal was truly awful as a manager here, much though I liked the persona.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
5,532
why not ? this is Manchester United, you think PSG, Bayern, Juventus don't think they will win there next 5 games ? if you want to be a top club that is what the aim always has to be especially more so when you have had a horrific start to the season and your job is under threat,

as for poch I have no doubt he will be our next manager, free agent as well seems to be the way we always go about it getting the next man in.
Yes I think its funny he hasnt been approached. I wonder if hes on a retainer here? Give Ole half a season and if were off the pace bring Ole in. Remember Mourinho, when he came he said he had been in contact with the club from the January and even mentioned transfer targets to Woody. Stranger things have happened!
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
5,532
I wouldn't put LVG ahead of him, with regards to his performance as a United manager. Bought loads who did not work out, sold many way below market value who could have been decent for us. Played the most boring football known to man. His best bits were his press conferences.

At least Ole has trimmed the squad a bit, sold players who needed to go. If his instructions are to "go out and enjoy yourself" (not saying it is...) than that's better than van Gaal's neutralise instinct methods. It's not much, just that I think van Gaal was truly awful as a manager here, much though I liked the persona.
I was basing it on trophies mainly. VG was a terrible manager for Utd, but did get the FA cup with a goal he didnt coach. Remember he apparently told the players to take a touch first before shooting.
 

Luke1995

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
2,499
If he is sacked, instead of the club paying alot of money for another manager, how about they promote Carrick or Mckenna ? At least they already would know the players.
 

Jibbs

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
1,079
I hope he gets sacked asap and pochetitno gets appointed and brings with him.all his coaching staff too.
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
5,851
Location
Manchester
I hope he gets sacked asap and pochetitno gets appointed and brings with him.all his coaching staff too.
Would Poch necessarily be the answer? I rate him but we already tried taking a rivals sacked manager. I wouldn’t be against seeing how Ole does this season & if he does fail having a look at someone like Nagelsman, Rose or ten Hag.
 

Amir

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2000
Messages
22,545
Location
Rehovot, Israel
You're missing my point.

We finished last season third, narrowly above the other teams battling for top 4.

The other teams above and below us signed players to improve their first eleven. We did not.

With all other things being equal, you would expect United to finish below those teams this season.

Now of course all other things aren't equal in football and we have no idea how this season will pan out and which signings will succeed. My point is merely that as illustrated above, Ole did what was expected of him last season. The club did not do what was expected of them this summer. As a result, even matching what we did last season will be more difficult.
We didn't just miraculously finished third. It happened because in January we spent a lot of money on a player who helped us improve and collect a whole lot of points in the second half of the season. A lot more than our rivals for top 4.

Now, we are highly unlikely to replicate that sort of point-collecting form over an entire season, but with Fernandes playing for us the whole season, the players we did sign, less injuries for the likes of Martial, Rashford and Pogba, and time allowing the players to gel better and get used to the manager's system, etc, you'd expect us to be worth quite a few more points than the 66 we gained last season.

I don't know where that would put us in comparison to our rivals, but first we have to do our part.

I certainly don't automatically 'expect' United to finish behind anyone who is not City or Liverpool. Certainly not based on the recent transfer window.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
6,407
If he is sacked, instead of the club paying alot of money for another manager, how about they promote Carrick or Mckenna ? At least they already would know the players.
They are part of the problem and probably the bigger problem. They should not be anywhere near a Manchester United first team.
 

DRJosh

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
109
There is an inevitability to Ole's departure but I think it will be much worse. There will be genuine hope after a series of strong performances against mediocre sides that things have turned around. This sense of hope will be brutally shattered once a decent opposition comes around (think Wolves or Everton) or until de Gea's next howler.
 

manukes

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
10
The sooner the better.
Yes agree with you, nice guy but not good enough coach for MU. Sooner or later will lose control of dressing room, problem is will Glazers want to keep a 'Yes' manager ??
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
32,733
Location
Egypt
If he is sacked, instead of the club paying alot of money for another manager, how about they promote Carrick or Mckenna ? At least they already would know the players.
Carrick as a manager? That will be an absolute disaster. I will actually prefer to keep Ole if that's the case.
 

manukes

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
10
Carrick as a manager? That will be an absolute disaster. I will actually prefer to keep Ole if that's the case.
Absolutely agree with you, Carrick never and same goes for McKenna. Why do people talk about 2nd or 3 rate choices, get someone in that has proven top management record. Need a Klopp …….
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
17,666
Location
16th century
It has been minimal this window. The window before it was decent, but those signings should have happened the window before. We play catch up, don't forget the window before that one was horrendous too. When playing catchup you can't afford to not spend a lot without dropping in quality and slowly too.

We didn't replace Valencia and Young before Wan-Bissaka came. We relied on Jones and Rojo sometimes, past seasons think about that. They are still at this club. Mata was our first choice right winger. Rashford we didn't buy. Our only attacker that we've bought that has been a success was Martial. We're doing things very slowly, and my point is if your quality isn't there from before then you can't expect to improve quickly if you do slow business.

That is what this thread is about no? Minimal funds in the context of us improving further, playing catchup. We need to buy quality players for important positions, so that next year we can update other positions instead of playing procrastinate and push it to the next window. How do you not see it? We still don't have a right winger... At the end of this season we will still rely on Matic even if we do know that it's probable that his legs will be dead at that point.
So that means that ample funds have been spent poorly.

Liverpool, after two consecutive 8th place finishes, had spent €253m to get to 75 points (with Van Dijk only arriving in January) and a CL final. Now expecting a CL final would be unreasonable but in the league that 75 points mark should be the expectation for us this season.
 

manukes

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
10
There is an inevitability to Ole's departure but I think it will be much worse. There will be genuine hope after a series of strong performances against mediocre sides that things have turned around. This sense of hope will be brutally shattered once a decent opposition comes around (think Wolves or Everton) or until de Gea's next howler.
I think the time has come already, signs are not looking good, be interesting to see the Newcastle result, don't expect another thrashing but not too confident of a good result for us.
 

MikeKing

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
4,100
Supports
Bournemouth
So that means that ample funds have been spent poorly.

Liverpool, after two consecutive 8th place finishes, had spent €253m to get to 75 points (with Van Dijk only arriving in January) and a CL final. Now expecting a CL final would be unreasonable but in the league that 75 points mark should be the expectation for us this season.
Well it's not that black and white is it. Liverpool wasn't expected to win the CL or the PL after spending money like that. They didn't win because they spent the money, they won because the signings worked. Then after showing progress they went and bought Keita for 70m. He didn't work out but they already had good players in those positions and I think they bought Fabinho as well.

Point is that some signings just don't work out and it happens to everyone and money spent isn't necessarily relevant. You can be real effective and lucky, or not effective at all but money isn't always relevant. You want more signings than one or two, but at the same time If you stop spending money on players of perceived quality and use those funds towards cheaper alternatives you'll take a lot longer improving. It's cheaper approach if they fail, and a patient approach if they're going to succeed.

Honestly, I think the patient approach is fine but it's frustrating that after a season where we reached our goals, instead of buying Sancho or any player of that quality to compliment the squad, we buy Cavani as a right wing option. I think it's important to balance that approach with quality players every now and then, and this was the time to do it. To do a stand still at this point in time doesn't make sense.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
2,939
You're missing my point.

We finished last season third, narrowly above the other teams battling for top 4.

The other teams above and below us signed players to improve their first eleven. We did not.

With all other things being equal, you would expect United to finish below those teams this season.

Now of course all other things aren't equal in football and we have no idea how this season will pan out and which signings will succeed. My point is merely that as illustrated above, Ole did what was expected of him last season. The club did not do what was expected of them this summer. As a result, even matching what we did last season will be more difficult.
Are you saying we don't have a team good enough for top 4 because that's complete nonsense
 

The Irish Connection

Full Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2017
Messages
868
Woody is essentially the middleman between the manager and the Glazers. The problem is that he's on the Glazers' side.

Summer 2019
Ole:
The team is a mess. We probably need as many as 5 solid additions to the starting XI if our goal is to challenge for titles.
Woody: Ok, I'll give you 40% of that. Here are 2 defenders and an unproven Championship winger.
Ole: We have problems in midfield and attack as well, though?
Woody: What was that?
Ole: N.. Nothing! I guess if Pogba can stay injury free we may reach top 4...
Woody: Now that's what I'm talking about!

*Pogba gets injured*
*Total disaster ensues*

January 2020
Woody:
*sigh* Ok, I'll give you 60%! Here's Bruno and a backup striker from the Chinese league. Better hustle now, boy!
Ole: Oh gee! Thanks, Mr. Woodward!

*finishes 3rd after a miraculous comeback*

Summer 2020
Ole:
I did OK, no? Could I maybe get the remaining 40% now? And maybe some bench options but that's not the most imp...
Woody: Sold to the man who looks like Gollum!
Ole: Oh boy, I can't wait! Finally United will have a starting XI that kind of looks like a United team!
Woody: Actually, I'm only giving you 40% of your current request. I figured that translates to some bench options. See you in January! If you still have a job, hehehe.
Funny, true and shocking!
 

CG1010

Full Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
2,673
On what do you base that? Moyes yes, but Mou and VG won trophies. All 4 are/were bad managers for where we are supposed to be and I would put Ole 3rd at the moment.
Trophies are important sure, more important than a FA Cup and Europa League trophy over 6 years, for me it's more important to see how much a manager is able to build a long-term competitive team. That includes buying the right players, brining youth, and improving first team players. In all three respects Ole is miles ahead of the other three..
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
17,666
Location
16th century
Well it's not that black and white is it. Liverpool wasn't expected to win the CL or the PL after spending money like that. They didn't win because they spent the money, they won because the signings worked. Then after showing progress they went and bought Keita for 70m. He didn't work out but they already had good players in those positions and I think they bought Fabinho as well.

Point is that some signings just don't work out and it happens to everyone and money spent isn't necessarily relevant. You can be real effective and lucky, or not effective at all but money isn't always relevant. You want more signings than one or two, but at the same time If you stop spending money on players of perceived quality and use those funds towards cheaper alternatives you'll take a lot longer improving. It's cheaper approach if they fail, and a patient approach if they're going to succeed.

Honestly, I think the patient approach is fine but it's frustrating that after a season where we reached our goals, instead of buying Sancho or any player of that quality to compliment the squad, we buy Cavani as a right wing option. I think it's important to balance that approach with quality players every now and then, and this was the time to do it. To do a stand still at this point in time doesn't make sense.
'Money isn't always relevant' is a far cry from your earlier claim of minimal funds. A bit of goalpost moving there.

Even this summer, we still spent around €90m, including a €40m midfielder and an experienced, highly rated left-back. It wasn't a great transfer window for many reasons - including apparently chasing Sancho well beyond what would have been reasonable - but the whole 'minimal funds' thing is and always has been nonsense.
 

soapythecat

Full Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
2,684
Location
Glasgow resident these days.
If he is sacked, instead of the club paying alot of money for another manager, how about they promote Carrick or Mckenna ? At least they already would know the players.
Do you not think these two guys could be biggest part of the problem with the teams performances? Totally unexperienced and without question given roles beyond proven capabilities.
 

ayushreddevil9

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
5,532
Do you not think these two guys could be biggest part of the problem with the teams performances? Totally unexperienced and without question given roles beyond proven capabilities.
Exactly this. What have they shown to get the job? There's a difference between doing well at youth levels and managing one of the biggest clubs.
 

pre Munich Red

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
325
Roy Keane has it in a nutshell - a bunch of bluffers who threw Mourinho ‘under the bus’ and now doing the same to Olle.
Current leaks from the dressing room - ‘not tactically aware’ - ‘likeable but..’ - ‘Mourinho knew his stuff but wasn’t nice to us....’etc/etc...
As Keane says - ‘give me a break...’
 

Lebowski

Full Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
460
Location
Collyhurst
I got your point, I didn't miss it, I disputed it. We have also improved our team and depending on how our signings pan, possibly as much maybe even more than some teams around us.
So your argument is that we had a successful close season and haven't lost any ground on the teams around us? If you believe that then sure, you're disputing a key premise of my argument and you're right to conclude that Ole should be expected to improve on last season.

Ultimately as you pointed out earlier, we won't know how damaging or successful this summer was for many months. However, it's been filled with incidents like our high profile transfer hubris, the failure to improve our starting eleven, our captain's arrest, our star youngster's off the field indiscretions, our lack of any real pre-season and the public outbursts of players like Shaw and Pogba. I'm therefore struggling to follow the argument that we've moved forward and closed the gap on our rivals.

I'm not saying that Ole was an innocent bystander in all of these events by the way, only that on the most fundamental level, due to the last few months the team appears in worse shape than it was when we finished last season, and as a result I think it's going to be harder for Ole to equal what he led the team to last year.