Don’t jinx it!I hope we dont go on a dismal run of form like we did after the last Paris performance.
I think the quality has always been there but we thrive when there is zero expectation and pressure.
Don’t jinx it!I hope we dont go on a dismal run of form like we did after the last Paris performance.
I think the quality has always been there but we thrive when there is zero expectation and pressure.
There is nothing wrong to keep have faith in the same XI that on form and able to turned the -9 points gaps into +2 points. It’s unfortunate that there was pandemic with 4 months break which means players who didn’t play much during the restart were lacking match fitness.Jeez it is a word. I sit corrected.
Yeah we were tired. But tiredness wasn't the root problem. The root problem was that we couldn't rotate. The real question is why not. Some people blame lack of squad depth. I think it was more a coaching issue.
I agree with you. For all the good that came out of Tuesdays game, if we slip up against Chelsea an Arsenal, all the confidence will drain away.I feel threads like this is months too early.
The season just recently started. Lets revisit the conversation when we are at least halfway through. One loss to Chelsea and the forum will be back where it was before this PSG win.
This is a little over the top and missing the tone of what I was hoping to achieve with this thread. All I intended to put forward here is that we are making progress. Not that we've made it, or that we are an outstanding team, or favourites to win trophies.Great win, against all odds, we celebrate. However, this is getting proper silly now - it’s like watching Democrats vs. Republicans in terms of threads created and polarizing views. How about staying on the ground? Last week someone literally created a thread stating our possible relegation candidacy, people were bumping the Ole-out by 10-15%, but now we’re seeing obvious progress? Come on, both sides are equally daft.
We beat a much better PSG-side 18 months ago playing this way, we still struggled in the league. We beat a much weaker PSG-side without home supporters yesterday, let’s wait and see how our domestic form is after 10 or so games. Try playing Martial/Rashford in a two vs. a low block from Burnley, that’ll pan out nicely. Literally no team in the Premier League leave this much space for a better team on paper (which we were yesterday), so we cannot play 5-3-2, it’ll be 4-2-3-1 and it’s back to reality. You want Fred and McTominay in front of 11 dogs staying in their own lane, whilst our wing-backs stay high up sacrificing room for counters? Let’s see how that works against Leicester and Villa.
No Verratti or Marquinhos (pinnacles in this team after the two superstars), no Kehrer, Draxler, Bernat, Paredes, Thiago Silva’s gone, a team struck by corona and injuries. A team that lost to Lens and Marseille a few weeks ago. We literally played against Herrera, the workhorse from Everon and Danilo in the middle, none of them are starters for PSG or even Arsenal or Spurs. When needing a goal they couldn’t put on Icardi as he’s injured, they threw on an Everton-reject that wouldn’t find ocean if he jumped off a container ship. People need to calm down and breathe, winning or losing, it’s the big picture that counts - and in my opinion, we are not seeing the full potential of this very expensive squad full of huge investments. A win against an injury-ravaged team won’t change my opinion, just like a loss to Chelsea on Sunday wouldn’t do much either. But put United top two after 10-15 games scoring goals and keeping attacking patterns, then I’ll join the other side.
I actually forgot Lingard was still hereNo Bilbo - you are incorrect:
This is what progress looks like
David de Gea, Sergio Romero
Diogo Dalot, Victor Lindelof, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Ashley Young, Antonio Valencia, Matteo Darmian, Luke Shaw, Eric Bailly
Paul Pogba, Juan Mata, Marouane Fellaini, Jesse Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Fred, Nemanja Matic, Scott McTominay
Romelu Lukaku, Marcus Rashford, Anthony Martial, Alexis
David de Gea, Dean Henderson
Aaron Wan Bissaka, Luke Shaw, Victor Lindelof, Harry Maguire, Alex Tuanzebe, Brandon Williams, Eric Bailly, Alex Telles
Bruno, Paul Pogba, Fred, Scott McTominay, Juan Mata, Dan James, Donny van de Beek, Nemanja Matic, Jesse Lingard, Facundo Pellistri
Anthony Martial, Marcus Rashford, Edinson Cavani, Odeon Ighalo, Mason Greenwood
One of the things that impresses me about these recent summer signings is that they all give us something different from a tactical viewpointNo Bilbo - you are incorrect:
This is what progress looks like
David de Gea, Sergio Romero
Diogo Dalot, Victor Lindelof, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Ashley Young, Antonio Valencia, Matteo Darmian, Luke Shaw, Eric Bailly
Paul Pogba, Juan Mata, Marouane Fellaini, Jesse Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Fred, Nemanja Matic, Scott McTominay
Romelu Lukaku, Marcus Rashford, Anthony Martial, Alexis
David de Gea, Dean Henderson
Aaron Wan Bissaka, Luke Shaw, Victor Lindelof, Harry Maguire, Alex Tuanzebe, Brandon Williams, Eric Bailly, Alex Telles
Bruno, Paul Pogba, Fred, Scott McTominay, Juan Mata, Dan James, Donny van de Beek, Nemanja Matic, Jesse Lingard, Facundo Pellistri
Anthony Martial, Marcus Rashford, Edinson Cavani, Odeon Ighalo, Mason Greenwood
Yes, we need to be careful. Also, they were clearly suffering because they had no striker starting because Icardi was injured too (Kean is not up to this level yet).It was a great win, but you have to remember that their entire first-team midfield was out. I think this PSG side was quite a bit weaker than the one we played in 18/19, so you have to take that into account. Their midfield was really average on Tuesday, so you have to bear this in mind when seeing if there is any progress.
Their defence was also a lot weaker without Silva and with Kehrer out.
Would we have had such a hold on the game if Paredes, Marquinhos, and Verrati were playing? I doubt it.
Well we can keep doing this, down playing our results. Then when we lose a game its all hell breaks lose.It was a great win, but you have to remember that their entire first-team midfield was out. I think this PSG side was quite a bit weaker than the one we played in 18/19, so you have to take that into account. Their midfield was really average on Tuesday, so you have to bear this in mind when seeing if there is any progress.
Their defence was also a lot weaker without Silva and with Kehrer out.
Would we have had such a hold on the game if Paredes, Marquinhos, and Verrati were playing? I doubt it.
We were missing players too. It’s the same old story with United, if we have 6 first team players out then lose to Man City, it’s “no excuse”. Yet if Man City have only one player out and we win, people say we only won because they were weakened. It’s like some United fans just want us to fail and will create any excuse to downplay a good result. They have two of the biggest and best superstars in world football yet they lost because Verratti was out. Something tells me that if Bruno was injured and we lost, nobody would accept that as an excuse.It was a great win, but you have to remember that their entire first-team midfield was out. I think this PSG side was quite a bit weaker than the one we played in 18/19, so you have to take that into account. Their midfield was really average on Tuesday, so you have to bear this in mind when seeing if there is any progress.
Their defence was also a lot weaker without Silva and with Kehrer out.
Would we have had such a hold on the game if Paredes, Marquinhos, and Verrati were playing? I doubt it.
Well - they had Navas in goal who made several great saves - 2 years ago they had Buffon who handed us one goal.It was a great win, but you have to remember that their entire first-team midfield was out. I think this PSG side was quite a bit weaker than the one we played in 18/19, so you have to take that into account. Their midfield was really average on Tuesday, so you have to bear this in mind when seeing if there is any progress.
Their defence was also a lot weaker without Silva and with Kehrer out.
Would we have had such a hold on the game if Paredes, Marquinhos, and Verrati were playing? I doubt it.
Progress is finally seeing a manager who realises that we can win a big game with positive and attacking subs. It was nice change to see a Manchester United manager subbing off a defender and bringing on Paul Pogba when score is 1-1 in the first group stage match in the kind of group where others managers, especially our previous one, would have loved to settle for a draw and dub it a defensive masterclass for themselves and eventually then would have gone on to toil and struggle in next games.I never start threads on here, but feck it, it needs to be said.
THIS is what progress looks like.
That is one explanation. Another is that our tactical coaching is very poor, leaving players to work things out intuitively on the pitch. which means there is a dramatic drop in quality for new players coming into the team. And conversely it means players who lose form stay in the team when they shouldn't be there. That's my explanation, but you can take your pick.There is nothing wrong to keep have faith in the same XI that on form and able to turned the -9 points gaps into +2 points. It’s unfortunate that there was pandemic with 4 months break which means players who didn’t play much during the restart were lacking match fitness.
Well we can keep doing this, down playing our results. Then when we lose a game its all hell breaks lose.
Beat Newcastle - Its only Newcastle but when we lost to Palace and Brighton, it was different energy.
Well, they didnt have Verrati in the final of the CL either. Herrera started in the CL final.
They also had their 2 new signings play, Danilo and Florenzi, are we going to say we didnt have our entire defence out? Maguire, Bailly etc didnt play.
Its like saying would we have won more convincingly if Pogba and Donny started? No because we needed the legs in midfield which is why they went with 3 workhorses as well.
We were missing players too. It’s the same old story with United, if we have 6 first team players out then lose to Man City, it’s “no excuse”. Yet if Man City have only one player out and we win, people say we only won because they were weakened. It’s like some United fans just want us to fail and will create any excuse to downplay a good result. They have two of the biggest and best superstars in world football yet they lost because Verratti was out. Something tells me that if Bruno was injured and we lost, nobody would accept that as an excuse.
This isn't a playing down exercise, but when people are claiming that there is progress because we had more of a hold than in a game two seasons ago, then you have to compare the teams that were fielded.Well - they had Navas in goal who made several great saves - 2 years ago they had Buffon who handed us one goal.
In addition - Neymar didnt play 2 years ago, so in total I don't think it was a much weaker side
Your explanation doesn’t match up with the fact that we have won our games with players that are not just with the same XI such as James, Fred & McTominay last season. How did we won with those three? Surely because of our tactical coaching.That is one explanation. Another is that our tactical coaching is very poor, leaving players to work things out intuitively on the pitch. which means there is a dramatic drop in quality for new players coming into the team. And conversely it means players who lose form stay in the team when they shouldn't be there. That's my explanation, but you can take your pick.
I dont get why comparing line ups will help because it is all opinion. Buffon, Alves are ageing personnel.. Bernat, Kehrer, Draxler are not even that good. Marqhuinhos and Draxler were on the bench so they were not selected to play.This isn't a playing down exercise, but when people are claiming that there is progress because we had more of a hold than in a game two seasons ago, then you have to compare the teams that were fielded.
PSG 2018/19: Buffon, Silva, Kimpembe, Kehrer, Alves, Marquinhos, Verrati, Bernat, Draxler, Mbappe, Di Maria
PSG 2020/21: Navas, Florenzi, Diallo, Kimpembe, Kurzawa, Herrera, Pereira, Gueye, Neymar, Mbappe, Di Maria
There is no doubt that the defence and midfield of PSG were a lot weaker than the team fielded in 18/19. That is why it is hard to judge if there was progress or whether more possession was ceded to us because their midfield was a lot weaker. It was a great performance, but you have to compare the opposition teams also if you are going to judge progress like that.
Its an ongoing trait on here to downplay our victories yet fail to look at any of the circumstances involved when we loseWell we can keep doing this, down playing our results. Then when we lose a game its all hell breaks lose.
Beat Newcastle - Its only Newcastle but when we lost to Palace and Brighton, it was different energy.
Well, they didnt have Verrati in the final of the CL either. Herrera started in the CL final.
They also had their 2 new signings play, Danilo and Florenzi, are we going to say we didnt have our entire defence out? Maguire, Bailly etc didnt play.
Its like saying would we have won more convincingly if Pogba and Donny started? No because we needed the legs in midfield which is why they went with 3 workhorses as well.
Well we won lots of games because we have loads of good players and we are relatively better than most teams in the league. The fact that we have won some games isn't really an 'Ole in' argument per se. Nor is losing some games an 'Ole out' argument on its ownYour explanation doesn’t match up with the fact that we have won our games with players that are not just with the same XI such as James, Fred & McTominay last season. How did we won with those three? Surely because of our tactical coaching.
So, players who are out:No Bilbo - you are incorrect:
This is what progress looks like
David de Gea, Sergio Romero
Diogo Dalot, Victor Lindelof, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Ashley Young, Antonio Valencia, Matteo Darmian, Luke Shaw, Eric Bailly
Paul Pogba, Juan Mata, Marouane Fellaini, Jesse Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Fred, Nemanja Matic, Scott McTominay
Romelu Lukaku, Marcus Rashford, Anthony Martial, Alexis
David de Gea, Dean Henderson
Aaron Wan Bissaka, Luke Shaw, Victor Lindelof, Harry Maguire, Alex Tuanzebe, Brandon Williams, Eric Bailly, Alex Telles
Bruno, Paul Pogba, Fred, Scott McTominay, Juan Mata, Dan James, Donny van de Beek, Nemanja Matic, Jesse Lingard, Facundo Pellistri
Anthony Martial, Marcus Rashford, Edinson Cavani, Odeon Ighalo, Mason Greenwood
Turnover is not necessarily progress. I think final league position is a better guide.12 out and 13 in (out of which 4 are academy promotions). Certainly is progress. Of course the shining jewel out of this is Bruno's signing.
whats interesting about the talk about tactics is that i read an interview by an ex united player from the fergie era who said that training was a laugh under fergie. Apparantly as default all they did was drill the back four, set pieces and shooting etc and play passing games with more attackers vs less defenders to encourage players to have to move off the ball to create and find space and not linger on the ball. Be creative essentially. Apparantly even lesser players had learned to do this on the training ground and fitted in.That is one explanation. Another is that our tactical coaching is very poor, leaving players to work things out intuitively on the pitch. which means there is a dramatic drop in quality for new players coming into the team. And conversely it means players who lose form stay in the team when they shouldn't be there. That's my explanation, but you can take your pick.
I think there were distinct SAF eras - and he wasn't really the coach for much of his reign. Meulensteen in particular was a very sophisticated tactical coach iircwhats interesting about the talk about tactics is that i read an interview by an ex united player from the fergie era who said that training was a laugh under fergie. Apparantly as default all they did was drill the back four, set pieces and shooting etc and play passing games with more attackers vs less defenders to encourage players to have to move off the ball to create and find space and not linger on the ball.
.....
I know liverpool like the forwards to come inside, full backs to push up and the anchorman to drop into a back 3 and play a high press, but the tactic has become so readable that all Villa did was twat it long for a speedy centre forward and dismantled them.
Literally had a poster tell me Ole should have known about Tuanzebe's injury status, criticising Ole for getting Maguire who played every game and said we should have signed Konate who was injured most of last season.Its an ongoing trait on here to downplay our victories yet fail to look at any of the circumstances involved when we lose
I didn't mean that either.. just if you look at the list, there are some undeniable upgrades over what we have let go. Which indicates progressTurnover is not necessarily progress. I think final league position is a better guide.
Well the proof of the pudding and all that. My view is that we will keep going through this cycle of good and bad runs but the good ones will get shorter and shorter.I didn't mean that either.. just if you look at the list, there are some undeniable upgrades over what we have let go. Which indicates progress
We've had some dominant performances against City last season too. Both our league wins against them were very convincing. Also we spanked Chelsea 3 times last season too.We pick up a lot of points in the big games but we actually went toe to toe with PSG tonight which is something we've not done anough against big teams in recent years. Apart from about 10 minutes in the second half we took the game to PSG.
Year Form (All Comps) | Games | W | D | L | CS | GF | GA | GD |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2020 | 39 | 24 | 7 | 8 | 20 | 81 | 37 | 44 |
2019 | 55 | 28 | 12 | 15 | 16 | 83 | 59 | 24 |
2018 | 52 | 30 | 8 | 14 | 18 | 88 | 54 | 34 |
Year Form (All Comps) | Clean Sheet % | Goal Per Game | Conceded Per Game |
---|---|---|---|
2020 | 51% | 2.1 | 0.9 |
2019 | 29% | 1.5 | 1.1 |
2018 | 35% | 1.7 | 1.0 |
Year Form (All Comps) | Win % | Draw % | Loss % |
---|---|---|---|
2020 | 62% | 18% | 21% |
2019 | 51% | 22% | 27% |
2018 | 58% | 15% | 2%7 |
Year Form (All Comps) | Games | W | D | L | CS | GF | GA | GD |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2020 | 39 | 24 | 7 | 8 | 20 | 81 | 37 | 44 |
2019 | 55 | 28 | 12 | 15 | 16 | 83 | 59 | 24 |
2018 | 52 | 30 | 8 | 14 | 18 | 88 | 54 | 34 |
2017 | 66 | 39 | 17 | 10 | 34 | 117 | 44 | 73 |
2016 | 59 | 36 | 11 | 12 | 20 | 99 | 56 | 43 |
2015 | 53 | 26 | 13 | 14 | 23 | 77 | 45 | 32 |
2014 | 46 | 20 | 10 | 16 | 15 | 74 | 55 | 19 |
Why? History shows the opposite.Well the proof of the pudding and all that. My view is that we will keep going through this cycle of good and bad runs but the good ones will get shorter and shorter.
Is honestly great to see how far the squad has come. Some of those we've now managed to let go hung around like a bad smell for far too long.So, players who are out:
(* not sold but not in the squad so basically out)
- Phil Jones (*)
- Chris Smalling
- Ashley Young
- Antonio Valencia
- Matteo Darmian
- Diogo Dalot
- Marcus Rojo (*)
- Marouane Fellaini
- Andreas Pereira
- Romelu Lukaku
- Alexis
- Romero (*)
Players who are in:
12 out and 13 in (out of which 4 are academy promotions). Certainly is progress. Of course the shining jewel out of this is Bruno's signing.
- Henderson
- Aaron Wan Bissaka
- Harry Maguire
- Alex Tunazebe
- Brandon Williams
- Alex Telles
- Bruno Fernandez
- Dan James
- Van De Beek
- Facundo Pellistri
- Edinson Cavani
- Odeon Ighalo
- Mason Greenwood
Because Ole is getting easier to find out. He can't pull a Bruno again.Why? History shows the opposite.
That's just not true though is it?Because Ole is getting easier to find out. He can't pull a Bruno again.