This is why it's called GREAT Britain

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,724
Location
France
I think Brits are quite comfortable with being called 'les rosbifs'.
Which isn't an insult, it's the equivalent of frogs.
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
13,462
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
It's interesting to see how this type of things is casually accepted. Is there any other example where people are comfortable with it?
I think European countries all make fun of each other in this way.
 

NinjaFletch

Full Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
18,734
i think I read he’s the most trolled footballer on twitter. Whether that’s just UK or wider, I dont know.
Oh, in this thread, I meant. Obviously he's getting lots of flak in wider society because for a great number of knuckle draggers in this country he's committing what they consider to be the egregious sins of being a) black and b) not knowing his place.
 

Salt Bailly

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
985
Location
Valinor
I know where it's from, it's still offensive and casually quoted which is rarely the case for other people.
Well technically I was referring to the Frenchmen of the 18th century who coined the name 'Great Britain'. If you choose to be offended on their behalf then that's up to you.

I wasn't referring to the French people of today. Much like the thread title is referring to a segment of the great people in this country as opposed the country as a whole, or its government.
 

Manny

Grammar Police
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
4,427
Credit to Marcus obviously for his efforts, and those small businesses stepping up but this is a government leaving people to fend for themselves.

Expect Boris and co to be out re-tweeting and congratulating Marcus soon.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,724
Location
France
I think European countries all make fun of each other in this way.
Not in this way, we have knicknames for each others but the surrender monkey part is an american thing as far as I know and not from the people you would like to be associated with. It would be like casually calling germans, Nazis, which no one with a brain would do.
 

Salt Bailly

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
985
Location
Valinor
I always wonder where this common wisdom about the French being surrender prone comes from. As far as I can tell, in terms of WW2 it comes from the French being steamrolled by the Nazi juggernaut when standing their ground, while the English celebrated their glorious escape back across the channel. Maybe it's an Irish thing but we have a very different idea of what surrender is.
I'm afraid you'll have to take it up with Groundskeeper Willie.
 

Dante

Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
19,686
Location
My wit's end
Supports
saves.outer.elite
Which isn't an insult, it's the equivalent of frogs.


It depends on the context. As long as you're punching upwards or sideways - and there's no malicious intent - it's considered fair game. If The Simpsons had said that about a disadvantaged developing nation, it would have been different.

There was a case in the early 2000s where the word 'Krauts' was deemed acceptable for the same reason.

EDIT: Though I understand where you're coming from, and I understand your reservations. I don't personally refer to you guys by that phrase precisely because I don't want to be too much of a cnut to people who don't deserve it.
 
Last edited:

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
3,399
Location
Manchester
Actually, the name Great Britain only became official in 1707 (when the Acts of Union brought Scotland and England/Wales into a single political entity). This happened decades after James I died.

The name Great Britain came about because the French used to refer to both Brittany and the Island of Britain by the same name: Bretagne. So when the kingdoms of Scotland and England/Wales united, there needed to be a way to differentiate. The French did this by sticking the word 'Grande' at the beginning of their name for Island of Britain.

Grande Bretagne then calqued into the name Great Britain, giving us what we have today.
Yes, that detail was covered in the link. Interesting though.
 

oates

No one is a match for his two masters degrees
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
19,913
Supports
turn your world upside down
It's interesting to see how this type of things is casually accepted. Is there any other example where people are comfortable with it?
I always saw it as a term of endearment. Things change.
 

Moby

Dick who hates the homeless
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
36,857
Location
Nicki Minaj's Secret Bedroom
Not in this way, we have knicknames for each others but the surrender monkey part is an american thing as far as I know and not from the people you would like to be associated with. It would be like casually calling germans, Nazis, which no one with a brain would do.
Back when I joined the caf I was living in France and had that as my location I was regularly referred with that phrase by a at the time caf mod and a highly active user. Casual racism is practically a part of the caf folklore.
 

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
3,399
Location
Manchester
You lot of fecking miserable sometimes.

What is wrong with being glad that normal people have stepped up to help the most vulnerable people in society, at a time where those bastards we elected into office turned their back on them? I think it's especially GREAT that a lot of this has happened because of the work of our own Marcus Rashford. Most 22 year old premier league footballers are only interested in themselves and their desires and here we have Marcus working tirelessly to help the needy.

I wanted to take a moment to praise those peoples efforts, in a forum where i'd think it'd be appreciated. Instead some of you lot are going on like i'm sat here spooning with a Nigel Farage sex doll.
That's a mental image I may struggle to get out of my head now. :lol:

Fair play to Rashford, and today what is happening is a big positive. Just it has nothing to do with Britain being Great, quite the opposite, sadly.
 

Eckers99

Michael Corleone says hello
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
4,720
If only the OP had said something snappy like, " I know that we, as Brits, are still grappling with the negative connotations of our postcolonial identity and, in no way am I intending to ignore the obvious complexities of that identity, but...the acts of these particular people - in isolation - while not making up for the horrors of slavery, could certainly be perceived as positive in some quarters."
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
21,210
Charity is a failure of government. That should never get lost amongst praising goodwill otherwise charity through that warm fussy feeling starts becoming the established route.

I don't for one second think those donating want personal praise to overshadow/distract from the failure of government.

As for those looking to make it 'non-politcal' so to avoid uncomfortable truths about the actions your vote supported, tough titties own it.
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
104,331
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Wait, is anyone having a pop at Rashford or the people who have decided to help out? I think for most it's just frustration that it had to come to this rather than being supported by the government themselves.
Not at all. Quite the opposite. But this is the only thread which makes the focus of the praise broader than Rashford’s own role in the initiative. And I think it’s ok to feel proud/patriotic about the actions of a diverse group of individual fellow citizens while also furious about a government that is forcing citizens to step up on its behalf.
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
104,331
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
If only the OP had said something snappy like, " I know that we, as Brits, are still grappling with the negative connotations of our postcolonial identity and, in no way am I intending to ignore the obvious complexities of that identity, but...the acts of these particular people - in isolation - while not making up for the horrors of slavery, could certainly be perceived as positive in some quarters."
:lol:
 

Cascarino

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,046
Location
Wales
Supports
Swansea
I think European countries all make fun of each other in this way.
Welsh = sheepshaggers etc. If a Welshman got upset about that I’d think he’s a bit of a knob. Cheese eater is kinda funny but I can see why the surrender part offends some, especially with it being so far from the truth.

as for your thread title @zlattattack, I think it’s clear you weren’t being literal with the great thing, just a way of highlighting Both the work of Rashford and the individuals stepping in to help because of our shambles of a government. It’s just with Britain being so shit its hard to not be pedantic and point out how shite we are.

If only the OP had said something snappy like, " I know that we, as Brits, are still grappling with the negative connotations of our postcolonial identity and, in no way am I intending to ignore the obvious complexities of that identity, but...the acts of these particular people - in isolation - while not making up for the horrors of slavery, could certainly be perceived as positive in some quarters."
:lol:
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,724
Location
France


It depends on the context. As long as you're punching upwards or sideways - and there's no malicious intent - it's considered fair game. If The Simpsons had said that about a disadvantaged developing nation, it would have been different.

There was a case in the early 2000s where the word 'Krauts' was deemed acceptable for the same reason.
It's not an insult regardless of context, you can use it in an insulting sentence but it's the sentence that is insulting not the terms in isolation. And my question wasn't about the Simpson or the comic value of that scene within the context of the show but the casual and widespread use of that type of rhetoric, it's not that common for other groups of people which I find interesting. Your point about punching upward could be the answer.
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
13,462
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
Not in this way, we have knicknames for each others but the surrender monkey part is an american thing as far as I know and not from the people you would like to be associated with. It would be like casually calling germans, Nazis, which no one with a brain would do.
Yeah fair enough, in Holland we think the French are arrogant and smell like feet, whereas Europe think all Dutch people are 8ft tall debauched drug addicts.
 

Dante

Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
19,686
Location
My wit's end
Supports
saves.outer.elite
The stereotype far precedes and outreaches a mid 90's episode of the Simpsons.
Yeah. 'Surrender' jokes have been around for ages about the French. The Italians are subject to jokes about running away from from battle. Everyone knows a bunch of German soldier jokes. And the Swiss have their own set of punchlines as well.

I can only guess why jokes about war are so prevalent. But I know it happens in other countries too. It's probably just a nationalist thing to make natives feel better about themselves in comparisons to their neighbours.
 
Last edited:

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,724
Location
France
Welsh = sheepshaggers etc. If a Welshman got upset about that I’d think he’s a bit of a knob. Cheese eater is kinda funny but I can see why the surrender part offends some, especially with it being so far from the truth.

as for your thread title @zlattattack, I think it’s clear you weren’t being literal with the great thing, just a way of highlighting Both the work of Rashford and the individuals stepping in to help because of our shambles of a government. It’s just with Britain being so shit its hard to not be pedantic and point out how shite we are.
That part is true and I actually told myself that I shouldn't say it anymore, it's not a good look. Weirdly enough the other place that I associate with it are the states of Washington and Oregon due to several stories in the press.
 

Salt Bailly

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
985
Location
Valinor
If only the OP had said something snappy like, " I know that we, as Brits, are still grappling with the negative connotations of our postcolonial identity and, in no way am I intending to ignore the obvious complexities of that identity, but...the acts of these particular people - in isolation - while not making up for the horrors of slavery, could certainly be perceived as positive in some quarters."
:lol:
 

Salt Bailly

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
985
Location
Valinor
That part is true and I actually told myself that I shouldn't say it anymore, it's not a good look. Weirdly enough the other place that I associate with it are the states of Washington and Oregon due to several stories in the press.
I have decided to retire the Willie phrase henceforth, but only on the condition that you provide links...
 

Oldyella

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
3,285
All the anger between people aside. Marcus is helping facilitate a wonderful thing.

Yes, the tories probably dont give a shit that the public has stepped up, we just need to remember this in 4 years and not give them a pass when they inevitably turn on Johnson and pretend they are the good guys again a year before the next GE.
 

Cascarino

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,046
Location
Wales
Supports
Swansea
That part is true and I actually told myself that I shouldn't say it anymore, it's not a good look. Weirdly enough the other place that I associate with it are the states of Washington and Oregon due to several stories in the press.
I don’t see it as offensive at all and I don’t think that’s unique to me, it’s almost a part of the cultural fabric. At rugby games it’s pretty common to see inflatable sheep and at Swansea games (after being subjected to sheepshagger chants) you’ll always hear 1-0 to the sheepshaggers from the fans after a goal. I might have a sheltered view though as stadium going fans aren’t really representative of the rest. But I view it as very different to other identity based slurs and more of a genuine joke.

The only time I’ve had experience of someone treating it as offensive was a cricket coach years ago saying it was no different to the N word. Because one of our players had been called that and he didn’t want to have to do anything over it and tried to brush it off:confused:
 

SalfordRed18

Full Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
7,630
Location
Salford
Supports
Ashwood City FC
Marcus is doing fantastic work but the country is anything but great.

Private businesses are doing the work of the government during a global pandemic. The minister for children woulder sooner they starve then fed and she and her party were voted in.

What's great about that?
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,724
Location
France
I have decided to retire the Willie phrase henceforth, but only on the condition that you provide links...
Don't edit your post you were joking and my question was litteral. But I remember a lot of reports like the one mentioned in this or that interview.
 

oates

No one is a match for his two masters degrees
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
19,913
Supports
turn your world upside down
Marcus is doing fantastic work but the country is anything but great.

Private businesses are doing the work of the government during a global pandemic. The minister for children woulder sooner they starve then fed and she and her party were voted in.

What's great about that?
That some private businesses are also stepping up?
 

arnie_ni

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
4,784
Some miserable people in here.

the government should do more
The general public and these business should be praised and supported.

Both can be true
 

oates

No one is a match for his two masters degrees
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
19,913
Supports
turn your world upside down
Difference between stepping up and picking up the slack.
A lot are struggling but doing what they can. It has quite often been the way. Charity is what the govmint rely on.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,724
Location
France
Some miserable people in here.

the government should do more
The general public and these business should be praised and supported.

Both can be true
Then praise the people and businesses that are doing something. Don't turn it into a dubious praise of a part of the nation which ironically exclude Northern Ireland. Personally I think that it leaves a bad taste because you click on the thread and realize that it's not GB being great but a minority of people doing a great job and are also being lumped with a majority that does nothing and voted for people who are still happy to do nothing.

And since I don't want to sound like I'm having a go at the UK, the exact same thing has happened in France since March, benevolents and companies have picked up the slack and provided food and the logistic to distribute it, those people are brilliant and it would be shameful for "France" to take any credit.
 

arnie_ni

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
4,784
Then praise the people and businesses that are doing something. Don't turn it into a dubious praise of a part of the nation which ironically exclude Northern Ireland. Personally I think that it leaves a bad taste because you click on the thread and realize that it's not GB being great but a minority of people doing a great job and are also being lumped with a majority that does nothing and voted for people who are still happy to do nothing.

And since I don't want to sound like I'm having a go at the UK, the exact same thing has happened in France since March, benevolents and companies have picked up the slack and provided food and the logistic to distribute it, those people are brilliant and it would be shameful for "France" to take any credit.
Its nothing more than a play on words though is it?

I don't think it has a big deep meaning, but your point in general is correct.
 

Zlatattack

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
5,470
If only the OP had said something snappy like, " I know that we, as Brits, are still grappling with the negative connotations of our postcolonial identity and, in no way am I intending to ignore the obvious complexities of that identity, but...the acts of these particular people - in isolation - while not making up for the horrors of slavery, could certainly be perceived as positive in some quarters."
:lol: Caf gold.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
44,724
Location
France
Its nothing more than a play on words though is it?

I don't think it has a big deep meaning, but your point in general is correct.
It is a play on words but that play on words will bring reflections and remarks which for a part won't be positive. Unless you expect people to have no reflection.
 

711

How long does it take you to count to 711?
Scout
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
21,042
Location
Don't Sign Old Players
Not in this way, we have knicknames for each others but the surrender monkey part is an american thing as far as I know and not from the people you would like to be associated with. It would be like casually calling germans, Nazis, which no one with a brain would do.
I don't know, the Americans didn't hang monkeys in case they were French spies. Which they might have been of course, or just French people that looked like monkeys and may or may not have been spies. In any case I take your point, the phrase is unnecessarily offensive to monkeys, who would undoubtedly fight to the death to save the country they love.
 

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
3,399
Location
Manchester
Its nothing more than a play on words though is it?

I don't think it has a big deep meaning, but your point in general is correct.
There is a big difference between praising individuals/organisations working to solve a problem and praising a country which has allowed the problem to manifest.
 

P-Nut

fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
17,809
Location
Oldham, Greater Manchester
If there is any thread that sums up the negativity of this site its this one.

One of our own steps up and helps feed the most vulnerable kids in our country and the thread is a hive of negativity and arguing over a thread title.