Thomas Muller

[Adisa]

Gone under the radar. When did he become such a shit player? Playing for both club and country on name alone.

 

[Bojan11]

He’s turning into their version of Rooney.

They don’t know where to play him. He’s useless on the wing.

 

[sullydnl]

Used to be one of the best players on the planet, this guy. The hell happened?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Used to love him but he’s looked terrible anytime I’ve seen him recently.

 

[Guy Incognito]

He was an amazing young talent at the 2010 WC.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

guess he lost hunger after the won everything and his type of player is finished when that happens, sad to see as i liked him a lot when he was at his best.

 

[hasanejaz88]

World Cup Winner
Champions League Winner
Bundesliga Winner
DFB Cup Winner

All by the time he reached the age of 25, you can understand if his hunger for the game has gone. He was never a player with exceptional skills but his mentality was what drove him to be a successful player, when that hunger died then so did his ability. Amazing player during his peak but even I was blinded by his past to not see this decline.

 

[shamans]

From the start he was often labelled as limited and benefiting from a great team so not that surprised.

 

[Minimalist]

He's all limbs and shouting.

 

[fcbforever]

Playing for club on name only is utter bullshit. He had a very good season for Bayern and that Ancelotti season was the only bad season he ever had for Bayern. Lot of cyclejerk involved here, although is WC certainly was shit. Problem is his position, really, he was always best playing more behind a sole striker.

 

[AgentP]

If Van Gaal had his way, we would have replaced one Rooney with another.

 

[Ish]

One of those weird ones where I’ve never personally rated him (shameful to admit - ever!), but 99% of the world did, and he always got into decisive moments and contributions (goals/assists), so I knew I was obviously wrong. Probably just was never my personal preference.

Movement, intelligence (right decisions) and right place at the right time (coupled with good finishing) were his greatest traits. Seem to have regressed a wee bit in some of them.

 

[Dave_fan]

Muller has always been a limited player...has good movement, decent finisher but nothing much else. Not a great dribbler or playmaker or anything. He is not someone who can create on his own. He needs service. Even great scorers can't finish for shit some times, happens for everyone and when Muller is struggling to finish, he will start looking even worse as he doesn't really offer anything else. That's exactly what has happened this World Cup and it also happened during Euros where I don't think he scored a goal and had a bad tournament. I was so glad when Bayern rejected that 90M bid which LVG made for Muller few years back, that would have been another terrible signing.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Problem with muller was that he was the ultimate flex player - could fill any gap and give you a performance as good as Robben on the RW when made to play there.

That type of play requires the rest of the team to function as well as muller himself not being specialised in one position to understand where to fall back to.

What happened to Rooney was that he didn't fall back in to midfield early enough & continued to play SS. When he was asked to play midfield it was too late & he was an old man who didn't know what he was doing.

Interestingly I feel the same way about Sanchez - the guy who had the crazy season with arsenal is not going to turn up for us - the quicker he adapts his position the better.

 

[fishfingers15]

Playing for club on name only is utter bullshit. He had a very good season for Bayern and that Ancelotti season was the only bad season he ever had for Bayern. Lot of cyclejerk involved here, although is WC certainly was shit. Problem is his position, really, he was always best playing more behind a sole striker.

Come off it, he's been terrible for ages. Eerily similar to Rooney's career.

 

[cyberman]

Used to love him but he’s looked terrible anytime I’ve seen him recently.

Same here. I almost cried when Bayern wouldn't even entertain the thought of a 100m transfer.
But as the great Garth Brooks said, I thank God for unanswered prayers!

 

[Amar__]

guess he lost hunger after the won everything and his type of player is finished when that happens, sad to see as i liked him a lot when he was at his best.

I liked him a lot too, but it has nothing to do with hunger, IMO. Combination of good form, luck, and intelligence alone was never enough too last as a top player for years, he always lacked basic football quality in his legs to last as a top player.

 

[Sanche7]

Come off it, he's been terrible for ages. Eerily similar to Rooney's career.

Be careful when you criticize Muller.
I remember posting something in the pre world cup thread about how Muller could struggle in the WC as he has been out of form for some time and 2,3 German posters got very angry reading that post.
They claimed he has been world class since Jan and that he had 6 goals and few assists in the last 12 games, newbies don't know shite, must demote newbies, comment only if you watch Muller play week in week out etc

 

[fcbforever]

Be careful when you criticize Muller.
I remember posting something in the pre world cup thread about how Muller could struggle in the WC as he has been out of form for some time and 2,3 German posters got very angry reading that post.
They claimed he has been world class since Jan and that he had 6 goals and few assists in the last 12 games, newbies don't know shite, must demote newbies, comment only if you watch Muller play week in week out etc

He had the most assists in a team that won the league and reached the CL semis, so yeah, he’s been horseshit. Since that Ancelotti season it’s just a bunch of people going „ha, I always knew it!“ and they won’t let it go.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I liked him a lot too, but it has nothing to do with hunger, IMO. Combination of good form, luck, and intelligence alone was never enough too last as a top player for years, he always lacked basic football quality in his legs to last as a top player.

disagree, luck has nothing to do with it....to say it was down to luck and good form it would be possible if Muller had a good year but the guy plays at the highest level for almost a decade now so no it wasnt down to luck and good form it was down to his quality and hard work.
Im first to admit i dont watch Bayern anymore since Schweini left so i dont really know how he plays as i saw him in few CL games and now at WC but to me he looks like he isnt his old self and im pretty sure it was down to hunger. While he isnt an absolute turd with the ball how many try to portrait he is a bit meh so what made him special was his off the ball movement and positioning both offensive and defensive wise.
If you are comfortable in your head, not hungry for more success then you lose the edge and you dont move as much as you should nor you have intensity in your game as much as you should - that means you will play poor as you are not the greatest on the ball so at highest level you will be exposed

 

[hasanejaz88]

104 goals in 286 Bundesliga matches
42 goals in 101 Champions League matches
38 goals in 94 International matches

Yep, been saying he's shit from the start and he's finally proven me wrong at the age of 29.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

He was shite this worldcup. Looked like he had an ego problem tbh, he thinks he is better than he played

 

[Heardy]

just saw a tweet on Mullers 2018 world cup stats - 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 key passes, 0 dribbles completee, 4 passes completed / 6% pass completion.

WTF - That cant bright, surely? 6% pass completion...

 

[FujiVice]

If Van Gaal was still around, he'd be our summer signing.

 

[JPRouve]

just saw a tweet on Mullers 2018 world cup stats - 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 key passes, 0 dribbles completee, 4 passes completed / 6% pass completion.

WTF - That cant bright, surely? 6% pass completion...

Germany were dreadful in the last third, all the attackers were isolated and were receiving the ball at the wrong time in the wrong way. Basically France against Denmark but three times.

 

[Don Alfredo]

I can't understand the people saying he only had one bad season under Ancelotti.

2016 bad in the Euros - 0 goals
2016/17 bad season
2017/18 average season - no impact in the most important games of the season: vs Real x2 and Frankfurt in the Cup final
2018 bad WC - 0 goals

You can say Germany was very bad in the WC, but that doesn't explain his poor showing in the Euros when Germany reached the Semi Finals. Also, even though the attack was disjointed, several players managed to do much better than Muller. Reus, Brandt, Werner were all much more dangerous, Ozil usually had good passes and created some chances while even Gomez managed to get one assist.

That adds up to 2 seasons and 2 tournaments of woefully bad performances. Not a fluke and not a temporary decline.

He is very much like Rooney in the sense that he still produces some decent numbers against cannon fodder in the league.

In terms of performances however, he is much more like a shit Jesse Lingard. Without the occasional screamer in big matches. And the fluid movement. And the energetic pressing.

 

[Holocene]

just saw a tweet on Mullers 2018 world cup stats - 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 key passes, 0 dribbles completee, 4 passes completed / 6% pass completion.

WTF - That cant bright, surely? 6% pass completion...

Definitely wrong.

92.9% vs SK
79.5% vs Sweden
71.1% vs Mexico

Can't post links, but it's from whoscored.

 

[Bojan11]

I can't understand the people saying he only had one bad season under Ancelotti.

2016 bad in the Euros - 0 goals
2016/17 bad season
2017/18 average season - no impact in the most important games of the season: vs Real x2 and Frankfurt in the Cup final
2018 bad WC - 0 goals

You can say Germany was very bad in the WC, but that doesn't explain his poor showing in the Euros when Germany reached the Semi Finals. Also, even though the attack was disjointed, several players managed to do much better than Muller. Reus, Brandt, Werner were all much more dangerous, Ozil usually had good passes and created some chances while even Gomez managed to get one assist.

That adds up to 2 seasons and 2 tournaments of woefully bad performances. Not a fluke and not a temporary decline.

He is very much like Rooney in the sense that he still produces some decent numbers against cannon fodder in the league.

In terms of performances however, he is much more like a shit Jesse Lingard. Without the occasional screamer in big matches. And the fluid movement. And the energetic pressing.

Agree.

He’s not looked great since Peps last season and even then he was dropped towards the end.

Playing him on the wing isn’t something he needs to be doing approaching 30 though too.

 

[BridgeBanter]

I liked him a lot too, but it has nothing to do with hunger, IMO. Combination of good form, luck, and intelligence alone was never enough too last as a top player for years, he always lacked basic football quality in his legs to last as a top player.

He’s been one of the elite footballers for nearly a decade and you think is down to form and luck? That must be a joke

 

[Zehner]

The simple truth is, Müller has been average at best for years. He's everybody's darling. The media loves him because he's simply a likeable character, makes jokes with journalists and provides funny stories. The fans love him because he seems like an average, humble and hard working bloke who could be the neighbour's son and Germans just love these types of players. And Bayern's officials love him because he's from their academy, popular among the fans and someone to identify with. Bayern always wins the league and the cup against very weak competition,so there is not that much pressure (and if there is, players less popular among the fans and the staff are in the spot light) and the national team qualifies easily for every WC (also due to weak competition). Not much reason to question such a popular person..

In fact, nobody criticizes Müller when he's had a bad performance and I think he just buys it himself and isn't too critical towards his contribution anymore. Özil would never get away with the kind of matches Müller has had. People look at Özil with so much prejudices (talented but lazy, no identification and all this bullshit) and once he makes an imprecise pass or loses a duel, they feel confirmed in their opinions. Müller is the exact opposite, he always gets away with it even if he has far worse performances and constantly is the weakest player in the team. If you point this out you get responses like "yes, he's been weak, but it's Müller, he can always score!"

And you see the result. Müller always has to play and he never gets questioned. Managers, coaches and fans alike are completely blind to his flaws and he's essentially imune to criticism. You don't see his brillant runs or game intelligence anymore. His game primarily consists of playing passes into the opponents feet or receiving the ball on the wing and playing dumb crosses without spin or inspiration in the box although the only player occupying it is Timo Werner. I honestly can't remember one good play of him in this WC. The best is probably a situation in which he showed his general awareness and let a pass intentionally go through for a team mate in the penalty area against Sweden. Symptomatic that his best moment happened when he decided to not touch the ball.

I don't want to bash him, I really like him as a character, but he should be nowhere near the starting eleven in this form. He's completely lost what made him a world class attacker and what remains (his technical skills) is and has always been underwhelming so that he's effectively a liability when he plays, especially when you have hungry and much more talented guys like Brandt or Sane in the second row. If you ask me, he shouldn't have started a single game at this WC and it is scandalous that he was subbed on before Brandt in the last game. I really hope that there will be an radical reformation in the national team after this tournament.

 

[Zehner]

Agree.

He’s not looked great since Peps last season and even then he was dropped towards the end.

Playing him on the wing isn’t something he needs to be doing approaching 30 though too.

You can't play him anywhere else. He had his best times in the national team on the right wing. That's where he scored his goals and played in the big tournaments.

He can't even play the lone striker, he's completely lost in this position everytime he played it (that's why Bayern hired Sandro Wagner). And playing him as a number 10/second striker would require to bench Özil and/or Reus (who are superior players in my opinion) or play them out of position. In fact, I'd see Özil. Reus, Draxler. Kroos, Gündogan and Brandt ahead of Müller in ACM/SS. You can't play someone who's that bad at passing, first touch and dribbling there, even if he still had his brillant movement.

 

[haram]

just saw a tweet on Mullers 2018 world cup stats - 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 key passes, 0 dribbles completee, 4 passes completed / 6% pass completion.

WTF - That cant bright, surely? 6% pass completion...

There is no way he only completed 4 passes.

 

[Ekeke]

The idea that hes bad at passing, or even that he's been average for years is silly. Even this season he's been good. He's just not as good as he used to be.

 

[Ali Dia]

And we were trying to sign him. He was clearly a very risky signing even back then. I’m glad it didn’t happen but worried if our scouts were flagging him up as a player on a huge fee who could bring us back to the top.

 

[Zehner]

The idea that hes bad at passing, or even that he's been average for years is silly. Even this season he's been good. He's just not as good as he used to be.

He is definitely the worst technician and passer in the German team and I'd even say by quite a distance. Defenders, Neuer and Ter Stegen included. Maybe Rüdiger is worse.

And no, he wasn't good this season. Getting some scorers in a league that your team wins without even trying doesn't translate to a good season for me.

 

[RW2]

The simple truth is, Müller has been average at best for years. He's everybody's darling. The media loves him because he's simply a likeable character, makes jokes with journalists and provides funny stories. The fans love him because he seems like an average, humble and hard working bloke who could be the neighbour's son and Germans just love these types of players. And Bayern's officials love him because he's from their academy, popular among the fans and someone to identify with. Bayern always wins the league and the cup against very weak competition,so there is not that much pressure (and if there is, players less popular among the fans and the staff are in the spot light) and the national team qualifies easily for every WC (also due to weak competition). Not much reason to question such a popular person..

In fact, nobody criticizes Müller when he's had a bad performance and I think he just buys it himself and isn't too critical towards his contribution anymore. Özil would never get away with the kind of matches Müller has had. People look at Özil with so much prejudices (talented but lazy, no identification and all this bullshit) and once he makes an imprecise pass or loses a duel, they feel confirmed in their opinions. Müller is the exact opposite, he always gets away with it even if he has far worse performances and constantly is the weakest player in the team. If you point this out you get responses like "yes, he's been weak, but it's Müller, he can always score!"

And you see the result. Müller always has to play and he never gets questioned. Managers, coaches and fans alike are completely blind to his flaws and he's essentially imune to criticism. You don't see his brillant runs or game intelligence anymore. His game primarily consists of playing passes into the opponents feet or receiving the ball on the wing and playing dumb crosses without spin or inspiration in the box although the only player occupying it is Timo Werner. I honestly can't remember one good play of him in this WC. The best is probably a situation in which he showed his general awareness and let a pass intentionally go through for a team mate in the penalty area against Sweden. Symptomatic that his best moment happened when he decided to not touch the ball.

I don't want to bash him, I really like him as a character, but he should be nowhere near the starting eleven in this form. He's completely lost what made him a world class attacker and what remains (his technical skills) is and has always been underwhelming so that he's effectively a liability when he plays, especially when you have hungry and much more talented guys like Brandt or Sane in the second row. If you ask me, he shouldn't have started a single game at this WC and it is scandalous that he was subbed on before Brandt in the last game. I really hope that there will be an radical reformation in the national team after this tournament.

Completely agree with this and a great summing up.

Muller has had a great career and achieved so much at a very young age. He's still relatively young considering his achievements.

He was never a world class centre forward. He played in a great Bayern team/squad which is undergoing huge change at the moment and I wonder to what extent success fatigue has been factored into motivation levels with not just Muller but the entire German squad. When you've won it all and still win it all (as Germany/Bayern have done for years now). . . Does the hunger still remain?

Provide Muller with service and he will score goals (like all good centre forwards). But there is a noticeable difference over the past couple of seasons. . . and never more noticeable when Muller missed a sitter with a complete miss kick in the last minute in Madrid to put Bayern into the CL final recently.

 

[Ekeke]

He is definitely the worst technician and passer in the German team and I'd even say by quite a distance. Defenders, Neuer and Ter Stegen included. Maybe Rüdiger is worse.

And no, he wasn't good this season. Getting some scorers in a league that your team wins without even trying doesn't translate to a good season for me.

2 key passes a game this season. Thats more than any of our players other than Sanchez

 

[Zen]

just saw a tweet on Mullers 2018 world cup stats - 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 key passes, 0 dribbles completee, 4 passes completed / 6% pass completion.

WTF - That cant bright, surely? 6% pass completion...

This is why I wonder if people even watch games or just watch twitter anymore.....no player in their right mind who played 3 games would have those stats in a world cup.

Just one of the few who hit the peak early....Rooney got crippled for declining early, and so is Ozil....but still feel a fair few of that Germany gets kinda missed, truly shows you the level of the Bundesliga really, or maybe how better that country is at not overly mistreating their players just because physical primes come sooner sometimes. Can't fault Muller, given a lot of his body to the game.

 

[adexkola]

Class player. Has proven a lot of people wrong.

"He can't dribble. He has no tekkers"

One of the best proofs that football is played first and foremost in the mind. His career speaks to that

Had a rough tournament and season and not sure if he will get back to his best but you can't deny how good he was at his best.

 

[pocco]

He's never been as good as people made out. I nearly died a little inside that time when we were apparently willing to spend £100m on him.