John Terry
Thomas Tuchel | Gone to & from Bayern (In Summer)
- Thread starter Bastian
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
It's actually amazing that such a limited player like Lukaku costs 100 million squids and earns 400k £ a week. Never could understand what people are seeing in him.
Chelsea with Lewandowski instead of Lukaku upfront would definitely challenge Man City.
Chelsea with Lewandowski instead of Lukaku upfront would definitely challenge Man City.
We wont sack him. He's bought one player in his stint as manager so far, he needs to be backed in next 2 or 3 windows IMO. And properly backed - not like some of Marina's classic where the manager (Conte) wants Radja Nainggolan who was arguably at his best at the time, and got given Drinkwater. Selling players she is the bees knees, buying players i'd say she's not quite at the same level.
If Ronaldo got Ole sacked here, Lukaku is going to do the same for Tuchel. He will never be able to win big games with him in the team and Roman won't tolerate that for long.
Ole couldn't bench Ronaldo as Ole didn't have a winning record to leverage on
Tuchel can bench Lukaku given what he has won or sell him
Ronaldo and Lukaku are also different personalities. One is up there with the best ever and the other is just another ST that Chelsea have bought.
They have had loads in the past, Shevchenko, Morata, Torres etc.
If the team is winning, it doesn't matter if he is dropped.
Depends on a couple of things, how much of a say Abramovich had in the Lukaku purchase, and whether Tuchel can get him out before he starts whinging. He wont take it quietly and has been shown to disrupt dressing rooms wherever he goes if hes not happy.
I do agree to an extent but if reports from after the interview are anything to go by the player's will universally side with Tuchel. I can imagine many if not all of them are as fed up with playing him and I am watching him.
Probably true. He has a knack for leaving clubs despised by players and fans alike.
That happened against Norwich, once!
Let's look at the record while Lukaku was out. He went off injured against Malmo in the CL, and did not feature again until a Chelsea win away at Villa (scored one, created the penalty). There were 10 league games in that period.
Chelsea's record: 1.9 points per game
5 wins (3 against Watford, Newcastle, Norwich)
4 draws (against Burnley, Everton, Wolves, United)
1 loss (against West Ham)
This is not "team to beat in the league" form whatsoever (extrapolating that form gets you to 72 points per game which is top 4 status, not title challenger status). The record does not support the narrative of Chelsea being this all powerful team sans Lukaku.
It says it all that I'm posting this in the Thomas Tuchel thread.
They were 2-1 up when Lukaku entered at the start of the 2nd half.
But truth to be told and despite my feeling they do look better without Lukaku, I also think that there is too much talk about him. Tuchel for all the good work didn't manage to lift Chelsea to another level attacking wise with or without Lukaku in the team. And once their defence started to leak they pretty much fumbled and atm seem level bellow the likes of City.
You forgot a comfortable 3-0 win at Leicester and the opening day win against Palace. Not the league but we also hammered Juve without him.
West Ham we were winning until he came on. We then proceeded to create literally nothing while being cut through at will (for a pressing team like ours defense starts from the front).
Burnley was fantastic in all but finishing and before you say Lukaku would have finished those chances, most of them came through either pressing high or fluid interplay so with him on the pitch we don't even get those chances. It was actually that game that gave me more confidence we could have challenged despite the annoyance of dropped points.
Wolves we were absolutely stricken by Covid.
I do agree on balance we weren't the team to beat and I'm not for one second suggesting taking him out turns us into Pep's Barca but we are a fundamentally better team unit without him on the pitch, on and especially off the ball.
I watched the Liverpool game that Tuchel dropped him for and the rotation of the Chelsea forwards was really good. They would pop up in spaces and make runs. It feels with Lukaku he is the main man when he plays so players around him have to play differently.
Fully agree (also the leveller came through pressing that doesn't happen on Lukaku's watch) and that game was a delight to be invested in as a fan. Against City I was deflated all the way through and I would have felt a bit meh even if we got a 0-0.
Rom is basically the player version of Mourinho, the baggage he brings can only be justified in one way, results.
Most United fans would have told you this, he was the same at United, albeit he was way worse in terms of body shape and pressing.
Managers keep trying to play him as a holding striker when that is not his game, he is more a run in behind striker.
He did not give Chelsea any options against City, to me that is why you pay £100m for a striker, to be effective in big games.
Even for Inter, he scored loads of goals but he played in a 2 up front where he was put through on goal.
Chelsea actually have a lot of interesting squad building questions between now and the start of next season.
Striker - What do they do with Lukaku? Whether they manage to move him on or not (which looks difficult), do they bring somebody else into the picture? Does Werner stay?
Midfield - Three great players but two are on the wrong side of 30, which is very tough for a PL midfielder. It definitely feels like they need to bring in a younger central midfielder.
Defense - They could potentially lose Azpi, Rudiger, and Christensen on frees (although seem likely to re-sign one of the CBs). Thiago Silva is 37. Major surgery is likely to be required to this part of the team as well.
The next year is going to be an absolutely crucial time in terms of reshaping their team. When Tuchel has fallen out with management, it has always been over transfer policy so it will be interesting to see how it goes for him at Chelsea.
Striker - What do they do with Lukaku? Whether they manage to move him on or not (which looks difficult), do they bring somebody else into the picture? Does Werner stay?
Midfield - Three great players but two are on the wrong side of 30, which is very tough for a PL midfielder. It definitely feels like they need to bring in a younger central midfielder.
Defense - They could potentially lose Azpi, Rudiger, and Christensen on frees (although seem likely to re-sign one of the CBs). Thiago Silva is 37. Major surgery is likely to be required to this part of the team as well.
The next year is going to be an absolutely crucial time in terms of reshaping their team. When Tuchel has fallen out with management, it has always been over transfer policy so it will be interesting to see how it goes for him at Chelsea.
I'd sack ralf for him in a second and I rate ralf
He got injured in the Malmo game and chelsea results (in all competitions) went on like this:
Chelsea won: 7-0 Norwich, Southampton in the cup (4-3 on penalties) then
3-0 Newcastle
1-0 Malmo
1-1 Burnley
3-0 leicester
4-0 juve
1-1 man utd
2-1 watford
then they lost 3-2 against west ham (lukaku played a couple of minutes against united but in this game he played a full second half). Then he was unavailable again because of covid until the villa game.
Its pretty clear that their form started dipping once they lost Chilwell, James and in some of those games earlier on Kova, Kante was also out after juve game and all of them are key players to them.
When these players were present they would perform and win comfortably against any team. The utd and burnley draws dont really reflect how good they performed and that they really should have won.
Their problem lies in the inconsistency of their attackers and how they are just so awfully wasteful but also you can easily notice that they play more fluidly without lukaku.
I just think he doesnt match their possession and pressing style.
Then I think we are on the same page.
Interesting username.
Even considering for COVID and injuries to Chilwell and James (huge blows I agree), don't you agree that the run of games you've selected is a small sample size to determine how good of a team Chelsea are (this is different from asking how fluid they look by the way) without Lukaku? A better sample size would be last season + this season without Lukaku in all competitions, and even if I agree with you and others that Chelsea look more fluid without Lukaku, that fluidity has not translated to Chelsea being consistently one level above where they are with Lukaku in the team (yet). And that's what I'm pushing against, and why I feel that despite legitimate complaints about how Lukaku disrupts that fluidity of play, it's become this overarching deflection point for why Tuchel hasn't met expectations set by everyone at the beginning of the season.
Does raise questions about Chelsea's recruitment strategy. I don't think it was solely a Tuchel decision to bring him back.
I don't think it is to be honest, if anything he's being criticised for constantly playing such a systematic misfit, certainly by Chelsea fans on the platforms i visit. The expectations were largely there because of Lukaku's signing because many were sucked into believing he'd come in and finish more of the chances we create without factoring how him replacing one of the pieces would impact on the build up play. Before we signed him practically no one gave us a prayer forget City and Liverpool you guys were considered more likely due to Sancho's arrival and Varane all but done.
Regarding better or more fluid, if it's even close Lukaku shouldn't be playing in my opinion. With the baggage he brings and less enjoyable watch he makes games (generally speaking there's obviously outliers going both ways) the only way his inclusion can be justified is the data strongly suggests it would be the difference between the title or not, in my opinion.
It's a lot easier and more sensible to permabench Lukaku than to sack-and-replace Tuchel with a top quality manager. City are the runaway PL champions already so there's no point in Chelsea or anyone else worrying about chasing them down. Dig in on the CL and go as far as possible there and prepare the foundation for an assault on City in the PL next season.
11 points clear already. premier league is wack right now. little competition. A team basically runs away by January
Fair enough
Yes Chelsea’s recruitment is not that good my mates even think they should get a new scouting personnel and a proper director of football who can target proper signings with Marina just negotiating because they think she doesn’t do a good job most of the time.
If Ten Hag or the Pochino fella not available hire Tuchel to spite chelski FC.
No more Chelsea hand-me-downs
1 win in 7. 3 wins in 11.
Will he ever recover from drawing against Carrick?
Honeymoon over.
Tuchel Out. I'm done.
Abramovich will do his usual. United should go for him instead of Poch.
More like Nosfraudatu right?! 
Fantastic. Love to see it. Why did they sign Lukaku? Talk about self sabotage.
You cant be seriousWhy is he starting Alonso and Azpi as fullbacks all the time? Really uninspiring.
Where’s James and Chilwell?
Where’s James and Chilwell?
Don’t follow much football do you? Both out injured.
Injured.
Of course not. He's the most impressive manager we've had since Mourinho 1.0. In all seriousness, the team looks very tired. I don't think we've had a single free midweek for months.
I dont watch Chelsea regurlary, no.
Seems more like cups are his strength. Did poor at psg as well in a league that he was suppose to win, until poch stared the ship in the right direction. If lukaku isn't working out up front, he should just drop him and do what was working earlier on in the season.
Poch lost the league last season?