Tifo Football: Is Manchester United’s Lack of Success Finally Impacting Their Finances?

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fergiesarmy1

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So bad management of our finances yet he gets praised and richly rewarded for it.
 

El Zoido

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Of course it is. Which brands want to be associated with this shite? Bet some of them will be desperate to escape the agreement if we keep going on like this.
 

PyroMan

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Doesn't the Adidas deal also reduce for each season we spend not in the Champions league? I read something to that effect somewhere but couldn't verify the source, hence wanted to confirm.

The finances according to the video look to be bad, but I thought there was some cherry-picking with comparisons - some comparisons were made with Liverpool and Spurs, but not for all financial heads mentioned. I wonder the player amortisation fee is one of the reasons why Liverpool did not invest this summer, owing to large transfer fees involving Van Dijk and Alisson.

But yeah, it does make a lot of sense if corporate sponsorships decline because companies would want to associate with successful teams, which basically means winners of PL and CL. I wonder what's the total $ value of out investments now compared to 2011 (inflation accounted for). Would give a good idea whether Woodward was right or wrong.
 
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Zlatattack

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Just watched this, was about to post it myself.

For those of you who can't be bothered to watch it, a short summary;

- Matchday income is stagnated, unlikely to increase unless prices go up, or the stadium is expanded
- Commercial income is also stagnated, lack of success means new deals not as likely to be so good
- broadcast income increased, but mostly due to new TV deal. Poor performances mean less TV revenue
- Financial lead over top 6 clubs has eroded, they have similar spending power to us now
- lots of money being spent paying off transfer fees
- Wages are 53% of income
- profits this year were £50 million, before interest on borrowing (which is 450K per WEEK)
- After interest is paid we're left like £26 million, then the glazers paid themselves £22 million
- Glazers borrowed £790 million to buy us, the club has paid back £809 million in interest alone since then.

In fact watch the video, it's only 10 minutes.

I think we're in for a big shock over the next few years. Unless performances on the pitch improve and help drive up revenue, we'll look at mid-table mediocracy for a long time.
 

Skills

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Doesn't the Adidas deal also reduce for each season we spend not in the Champions league? I read something to that effect somewhere but couldn't verify the source, hence wanted to confirm.

The finances according to the video look to be bad, but I thought there was some cherry-picking with comparisons - some comparisons were made with Liverpool and Spurs, but not for all financial heads mentioned. I wonder the player amortisation fee is one of the reasons why Liverpool did not invest this summer, owing to large transfer fees involving Van Dijk and Alisson.

But yeah, it does make a lot of sense if corporate sponsorships decline because companies would want to associate with successful teams, which basically means winners of PL and CL. I wonder what's the total $ value of out investments now compared to 2011 (inflation accounted for). Would give a good idea whether Woodward was right or wrong.
It's a 20% reduction if we're out of the CL for two consecutive seasons
 

gr3yham3

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Just watched this, was about to post it myself.

For those of you who can't be bothered to watch it, a short summary;

- Matchday income is stagnated, unlikely to increase unless prices go up, or the stadium is expanded
- Commercial income is also stagnated, lack of success means new deals not as likely to be so good
- broadcast income increased, but mostly due to new TV deal. Poor performances mean less TV revenue
- Financial lead over top 6 clubs has eroded, they have similar spending power to us now
- lots of money being spent paying off transfer fees
- Wages are 53% of income
- profits this year were £50 million, before interest on borrowing (which is 450K per WEEK)
- After interest is paid we're left like £26 million, then the glazers paid themselves £22 million
- Glazers borrowed £790 million to buy us, the club has paid back £809 million in interest alone since then.

In fact watch the video, it's only 10 minutes.

I think we're in for a big shock over the next few years. Unless performances on the pitch improve and help drive up revenue, we'll look at mid-table mediocracy for a long time.
Or the Glazers sell to get a big return on their investments, though that will come with its own problems like possibly being owned by the Saudis.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Doesn't the Adidas deal also reduce for each season we spend not in the Champions league? I read something to that effect somewhere but couldn't verify the source, hence wanted to confirm.

The finances according to the video look to be bad, but I thought there was some cherry-picking with comparisons - some comparisons were made with Liverpool and Spurs, but not for all financial heads mentioned. I wonder the player amortisation fee is one of the reasons why Liverpool did not invest this summer, owing to large transfer fees involving Van Dijk and Alisson.

But yeah, it does make a lot of sense if corporate sponsorships decline because companies would want to associate with successful teams, which basically means winners of PL and CL. I wonder what's the total $ value of out investments now compared to 2011 (inflation accounted for). Would give a good idea whether Woodward was right or wrong.
What's the betting as the Adidas deal reduces they reduce the transfer budget to compensate.
 

Crashoutcassius

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Analysis so far has been a bit of a joke. Yes revenues have stopped growing but to think they could grow forever isn't realistic, we are still capping out among the highest earning clubs in the planet with a big share.

Accounting profit analysis is fair enough but shouldn't be unexpected as we have spent big on players and you pay this off over years. Hard to believe anyone is caught off guard by this.

These reports were to end of last year so we have since reduced wages and got 75m From lukaku so likely to be a good year. Interest of 25m per annum is a nuisance but nothing more. 18m of dividends every few years also not a big deal.

Main point is we are cash flow rich but had some wierd tax write down that killed our accounting profit for the year and player amortization given that we have spent more than anyone bar city in last 5 year's is very high
 

SirAF

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"- Wages are 53% of income"

Is this the first year they have broken the 50% threshold? United have always been below 50%.
 

cyberman

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It's a 20% reduction if we're out of the CL for two consecutive seasons
Until we qualify again and it resets.
Our finances had to stagnate i nbetween old deals and waiting to renew. There's nothing extraordinary here
 

Classical Mechanic

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Doesn't the Adidas deal also reduce for each season we spend not in the Champions league? I read something to that effect somewhere but couldn't verify the source, hence wanted to confirm.

The finances according to the video look to be bad, but I thought there was some cherry-picking with comparisons - some comparisons were made with Liverpool and Spurs, but not for all financial heads mentioned. I wonder the player amortisation fee is one of the reasons why Liverpool did not invest this summer, owing to large transfer fees involving Van Dijk and Alisson.

But yeah, it does make a lot of sense if corporate sponsorships decline because companies would want to associate with successful teams, which basically means winners of PL and CL. I wonder what's the total $ value of out investments now compared to 2011 (inflation accounted for). Would give a good idea whether Woodward was right or wrong.
It's a 20% reduction if we're out of the CL for two consecutive seasons
It would be cut if we don't qualify this year. The deal is 5 years old now and not the mega money it was back then. City's is only £10m a season less. I'd guess we'd be in a position to renegotiate and get them to waive it.
 

Skills

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It would be cut if we don't qualify this year. The deal is 5 years old now and not the mega money it was back then. City's is only £10m a season less. I'd guess we'd be in a position to renegotiate and get them to waive it.
We're into the 5th year now out of a 10 year commitment. I doubt they'll just waive it away for free though.

The contract was way overpriced in the first 3 or so years, now it's about market value and we'll get screwed in the last few years.
 

Classical Mechanic

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We're into the 5th year now out of a 10 year commitment. I doubt they'll just waive it away for free though.

The contract was way overpriced in the first 3 or so years, now it's about market value and we'll get screwed in the last few years.
Sure, we'd have to resign or something but that's one thing Woody is actually good at.
 

Seb burrow

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From what I read recently no concerns/questions were raised by sponsor investors on our form. Main reason for that is our target audience is so big. I think long term it will effect us because if we continue on this path our fan base will start to fall. This will start to take effect if we don’t start winning trophies again.

In the immediate future. We’re fine.
 
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RUCK4444

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Or the Glazers sell to get a big return on their investments, though that will come with its own problems like possibly being owned by the Saudis.
I don’t really get the whole idea of fans absolutely dreading the possibility of United being owned by the Saudi’s.

I mean I love the club, I watch every game, travel thousands of miles over the course of a year to watch as many games as I can in person, have religiously followed the club my whole life. Everyone who knows me knows how much of a die hard fan I am of United.

Yet I don’t have one ounce of fear of who our owners are so long as they allow us spend the money we have in the bank and what we have rightfully earned over the years of dominance. I don’t want a sugar daddy owner with loads of their own money to spend, I just want us to be able to spend the money we generate ourselves through all the hard work SAF and the club put in to make us the worldwide brand we are today.

We need owners with the same ambition we used to have to be the absolute best club in the world.

Of course their human rights issues in their country is a disgrace but what does that have to do with us as a club in Manchester.

The owners are just ambassadors or a vehicle that allows us (or doesn’t) to flex our financial muscle.

Yes we’ve spent millions already but spending more is the only way back, with of course the right management and structure in place.
Neither of which will happen under the current owners and Ed.

It would be a massive relief if anything to hear that we have been bought by the Saudi’s, at least we would know our owners share our desire to be the best again.
 

fergiesarmy1

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I don’t really get the whole idea of fans absolutely dreading the possibility of United being owned by the Saudi’s.

I mean I love the club, I watch every game, travel thousands of miles over the course of a year to watch as many games as I can in person, have religiously followed the club my whole life. Everyone who knows me knows how much of a die hard fan I am of United.

Yet I don’t have one ounce of fear of who our owners are so long as they allow us spend the money we have in the bank and what we have rightfully earned over the years of dominance. I don’t want a sugar daddy owner with loads of their own money to spend, I just want us to be able to spend the money we generate ourselves through all the hard work SAF and the club put in to make us the worldwide brand we are today.

We need owners with the same ambition we used to have to be the absolute best club in the world.

Of course their human rights issues in their country is a disgrace but what does that have to do with us as a club in Manchester.

The owners are just ambassadors or a vehicle that allows us (or doesn’t) to flex our financial muscle.

Yes we’ve spent millions already but spending more is the only way back, with of course the right management and structure in place.
Neither of which will happen under the current owners and Ed.

It would be a massive relief if anything to hear that we have been bought by the Saudi’s, at least we would know our owners share our desire to be the best again.
I know a lot of united fans who say they are finished with the club if that does happen, whether they stick to their word or not is a different matter.
 

red thru&thru

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I don’t really get the whole idea of fans absolutely dreading the possibility of United being owned by the Saudi’s.

I mean I love the club, I watch every game, travel thousands of miles over the course of a year to watch as many games as I can in person, have religiously followed the club my whole life. Everyone who knows me knows how much of a die hard fan I am of United.

Yet I don’t have one ounce of fear of who our owners are so long as they allow us spend the money we have in the bank and what we have rightfully earned over the years of dominance. I don’t want a sugar daddy owner with loads of their own money to spend, I just want us to be able to spend the money we generate ourselves through all the hard work SAF and the club put in to make us the worldwide brand we are today.

We need owners with the same ambition we used to have to be the absolute best club in the world.

Of course their human rights issues in their country is a disgrace but what does that have to do with us as a club in Manchester.

The owners are just ambassadors or a vehicle that allows us (or doesn’t) to flex our financial muscle.

Yes we’ve spent millions already but spending more is the only way back, with of course the right management and structure in place.
Neither of which will happen under the current owners and Ed.

It would be a massive relief if anything to hear that we have been bought by the Saudi’s, at least we would know our owners share our desire to be the best again.
Yep, sports is sports and politics is politics.

Yes there is some cross over but all supporters just want to see their team play good football, be entertained and win matches. We are so far away of achieving any of this.
 

Jburton

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I know a lot of united fans who say they are finished with the club if that does happen, whether they stick to their word or not is a different matter.
Well they are ok with being owned by parasites that are slowly killing the club?

As for Saudi Arabia and its internal politics etc, I don't care .... I want someone to revitalise the club.
 
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fergiesarmy1

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Well they are ok with being owned by parasites that are slowly killing the club?

As for Saudi Arabia and its internal politics etc, I don't care .... I want someone to revitalise the club.
The hatred for the glazers is there for most if not all of them also, guess it’s out of the frying pan and into the fire as we got a phrase that annoys thread going.
 

Amerifan

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This is bad news for supporters like me who want us to be successful as a self-sustaining club. It means less money for players. That means an even greater need to hire the next Klopp who can compete for a title on the same money as our competitors. Good luck finding that guy. We’ve been outspending most of the competition the past 6 years and our squad is arguably just average. With lower spends...forget about it.

As for the Glazers selling to some deep-pockets owner wanting to use United as a hacked Football Manager video game team. No. Thanks. The only thing that would cause me to stop being a supporter would be some owner circumventing FFP to buy us trophies. If I wanted that I can get that across the street. I’d drop football and find something else to do on weekends.
 

Krakenzero

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As an outsider I frankly don't get how so many United fans are so cool about this. Looking at the income there are 3 main sources:

1) Attendance. It is actually stagnated, and could only increase if prices go up (unlikely if United is not fighting for trophies and/or decays as a brand) or if OT's capacity is increased (not in plans right now and requires a huge investment). Direct rivals have closed the gap by this point.
2) Commercial contracts. Stagnated, without significant increase for the next years. When renegotiation comes the leverage that the United brand provides could be lower, AND, this resources could end up going to direct rivals that are managing their brand in a better way (so, potentially double bad news).
3) Broadcasting rights. Without Champions (and eventually without UEL as well) and with bad results in the league these numbers go down fast, AND they go straight into the direct rivals pockets.

2 and 3 directly harm United's ability to close the gap in squad quality against top rivals. Which, in the end, is the only way to get back on track fighting for trophies, which would allow to get better Commercial deals, etc.
 
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CR7000

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Read article that Man UTD has 1.1 billion fans globally. If so, why not make this club a fan-own club. The fan pay 1 pound annually membership fee. Get out of blood sucking owner with no football interest.
 

Suedesi

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Just watched this, was about to post it myself.

For those of you who can't be bothered to watch it, a short summary;

- Matchday income is stagnated, unlikely to increase unless prices go up, or the stadium is expanded
- Commercial income is also stagnated, lack of success means new deals not as likely to be so good
- broadcast income increased, but mostly due to new TV deal. Poor performances mean less TV revenue
- Financial lead over top 6 clubs has eroded, they have similar spending power to us now
- lots of money being spent paying off transfer fees
- Wages are 53% of income
- profits this year were £50 million, before interest on borrowing (which is 450K per WEEK)
- After interest is paid we're left like £26 million, then the glazers paid themselves £22 million
- Glazers borrowed £790 million to buy us, the club has paid back £809 million in interest alone since then.

In fact watch the video, it's only 10 minutes.

I think we're in for a big shock over the next few years. Unless performances on the pitch improve and help drive up revenue, we'll look at mid-table mediocracy for a long time.
Video is 7 minutes, and it's a must watch for all those with a slight interest in the club's finances. We're due for a rude awakening soon.
 

Suedesi

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Read article that Man UTD has 1.1 billion fans globally. If so, why not make this club a fan-own club. The fan pay 1 pound annually membership fee. Get out of blood sucking owner with no football interest.
No it doesn't, it's fecking bullshit.
 

Suedesi

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Well they are ok with being owned by parasites that are slowly killing the club?

As for Saudi Arabia and its internal politics etc, I don't care .... I want someone to revitalise the club.
Mohamad bin Salman has been of the biggest backers of SoftBank's Vision Fund, but has recently put the kibosh on fundraising for Vision Fund II, suggesting that he's not exactly rolling in liquidity. As you know he's engaged in a very expensive proxy war with Iran in Sudan which actually costs a lot of money, and he faces a lot of internal opposition which he's tried to suppress through bribes.

To raise capital he's already planning to take Aramco public, which has been delayed several times. He's already shaken down Saudi royals - officially to stop corruption - but what most analysts view as kidnappings to money and power grab.

So just putting two and two together, a Saudi takeover is a distant reality at the moment.
 

red thru&thru

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As an outsider I frankly don't get how so many United fans are so cool about this. Looking at the income there are 3 main sources:

1) Attendance. It is actually stagnated, and could only increase if prices go up (unlikely if United is not fighting for trophies and/or decays as a brand) or if OT's capacity is increased (not in plans right now and requires a huge investment). Direct rivals have closed the gap by this point.
2) Commercial contracts. Stagnated, without significant increase for the next years. When renegotiation comes the leverage that the United brand provides could be lower, AND, this resources could end up going to direct rivals that are managing their brand in a better way (so, potentially double bad news).
3) Broadcasting rights. Without Champions (and eventually without UEL as well) and with bad results in the league these numbers go down fast, AND they go straight into the direct rivals pockets.

2 and 3 directly harm United's ability to close the gap in squad quality against top rivals. Which, in the end, is the only way to get back on track fighting for trophies, which would allow to get better Commercial deals, etc.
Me too. But apparently, Ed is doing a wonderful job!
 

GGT

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Read article that Man UTD has 1.1 billion fans globally. If so, why not make this club a fan-own club. The fan pay 1 pound annually membership fee. Get out of blood sucking owner with no football interest.
A pound is a weeks wages in some places where a lot of those fans live

The absolute lowest federal minimum wage is in Sierra Leone, where workers can expect just $0.03/hour. India is the lowest among larger economies with a $0.28/hour rate

Dosn't seem right for these people to pay a pound, so Sanchez can get 500000x that each week
 
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Scholsey2004

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Read article that Man UTD has 1.1 billion fans globally. If so, why not make this club a fan-own club. The fan pay 1 pound annually membership fee. Get out of blood sucking owner with no football interest.
I'd love to see the club become fan owned. Realistically how does that happen in reality though? Someone with a huge amount of money has to buy the club from its current owners with the sole intention of selling the majority of shares exclusively to members of supporters groups. Sadly it's not realistic.
 

SaintMuppet

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I know a lot of united fans who say they are finished with the club if that does happen, whether they stick to their word or not is a different matter.
I said it and I mean it. Some things are way bigger than a game of football.

Principles for instance
 

Catt

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So obviously the club won't be happy and the suggestions there's been a strategy to lower expectations, because the money will keep coming, is a load of hogwash.
 

devlinadl

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No it doesn't, it's fecking bullshit.
Actually, I believe the term used is "followers", not fans. A follower is anyone who takes an interest in the club. For instance, a City fan who reads an article about United loosing would fall within the definition of "follower",but I very much doubt he or she would contribute money to support the club.
 

red thru&thru

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So obviously the club won't be happy and the suggestions there's been a strategy to lower expectations, because the money will keep coming, is a load of hogwash.
What is the clubs long term strategy?
 

devlinadl

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The club is forecasting revenue for the current 2019/2020 season at between £560-570m. If United fail to secure CL football, the drop in Addidas revenue could cost £20m. If United fail to secure EL football as well, the loss of European football could cost between £30-40m. So theoretically, if United finish outside the top 7 and don't win a cup, the revenue for 2020/21 could be in the region of £500-520m. A lot of ifs and maybes, but a drop from £627m to £500-520m in two season would surely be felt.
 
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Jim Beam

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Would be interesting to see Adidas number in terms of profit, compare it with their projections at the start of the deal and so on. Have no doubts they are making profit, I just don't believe it is nearly what they expected.

And of course it will affect us in the long run. Only in Ed's world one doesn't have connection with the other.
 

fergiesarmy1

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Would be interesting to see Adidas number in terms of profit, compare it with their projections at the start of the deal and so on. Have no doubts they are making profit, I just don't believe it is nearly what they expected.

And of course it will affect us in the long run. Only in Ed's world one doesn't have connection with the other.
I guess there aren’t many queues at megawhore shop these days and every time I’m abroad people are wearing fake united stuff not official stuff so I don’t think so either.