Ditto. But I'd call it being too much of a Man United purist, much like the forum. At that point the way PSG set up, it might have made a difference to shift Rashford wide and push Lukaku central to disrupt their backline in an ugly but maybe effective way.
Time For Ole To Show His Mettle
- Thread starter Rado_N
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Ole has been here for 12 fecking games and now he needs his own Carlos Quieroz in Europe? What are you people basing that off?
This one game, where we we're severely unlucky in getting two injuries?
This one game, where we we're severely unlucky in getting two injuries?
I think it would have been better to stick Rashford on the left and Lukaku out on the right and Sanchez as False 9. Lukaku did really well against Arsenal and does have good pace when he's running into channels, contrary to what most think.
Or rashford and lukaku wide and Sanchez as a false 9 ,either way.
No, both Queiroz and Mourinho could provide some good tips about cautiousness im Europe, that’s not ..., if maybe a bit dramatic measures to counter one loss.
What’s ... is thinking that Tuchel some how came up with a plan Ole couldn’t handle. It was an even game where luck, injuries and two moments of clinicality/set piece error made the difference.
sorry - was a bit harsh on my part.What's wrong with me offering my thoughts immediately following the match? This is a discussion board isn't it?
It's really this simple.
Throwaway comment - City are a class above us, yet the lost to Newcastle recently. Upsets happen from time to time. Sadly, tonight was not one of those times.
It's really disappointing those two had to come off. Our chances of getting a result departed with them. Its possible they wouldnt have done better but certainly wouldn't have capitulated with the ease that we did without them .
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It's nothing, no worries. Everyone's bound to be a bit annoyed after the match.
Me and my mates were quite ecstatic around 20 min of how much trouble we were giving PSG. Tuchel was looking quite desperate.
We were going for the kill and had some moments. That one pass from Young that kempapa cleared springs to my mind. Also when Pogba danced his way through the PSG left back. Just a little more focus on the last third and we could be having a total different game.
Think our gameplan was to score early and go for deadly counters after a goal. The momentum changed when Sanchez and Mata came on as they are not fast enough to run behind the left and right back chasing those balls aimed towards the cornerflags. PSG had some moments too early in first half but were all offside?
You are not a realist, what could Solskjaer do in that position? he picked the best 11, he can only do what he can with his players at his disposal. Matic played really well, but that one second of communication error changed the whole game. That is football for you! Maybe you want Mou back, because he would have suffocated the players playing for a 0-0 at home.
Only lost it when he brought on mata. I was so nervous when I saw him on the touch line ready to come on but I didn’t know how bad his involvement would be.
If you guys haven’t realized under Ole we are exclusively a counter attacking team. In that respect martial, lingard and rashford are key pieces to the success of oles tactics. Their combined speed in conjunction with pogba creativity has seen us very successful. Change that formula and there is a drop in quAlity were it truly matters.
Sanchez has lost a lot of pace and although he wasn’t very good during this game he is still capable of holding onto the ball. Most times he should be a good substitution although it hardly ever works out these days.
Now our biggest problem is Juan mata because although he is a very capable player in a different system he is a terrible player in this counter attacking system. Mata has been constantly deployed on the right wing although he doesn’t have the pace, and strength to attack. Off the ball he doesn’t have the strength to defend the ball and we have seen him get run around by fullbacks when trying to receive the bAll.
My problem with ole is that he should have analyzed this by now that mata is a weak link against any decent team. It’s his own formation and so he should know that playing mata decreases any chance of us winning that game. Of course there were injuries so we were limited to who could play but rashford should have been moved to the right while LUkaku played down the center.
If you guys haven’t realized under Ole we are exclusively a counter attacking team. In that respect martial, lingard and rashford are key pieces to the success of oles tactics. Their combined speed in conjunction with pogba creativity has seen us very successful. Change that formula and there is a drop in quAlity were it truly matters.
Sanchez has lost a lot of pace and although he wasn’t very good during this game he is still capable of holding onto the ball. Most times he should be a good substitution although it hardly ever works out these days.
Now our biggest problem is Juan mata because although he is a very capable player in a different system he is a terrible player in this counter attacking system. Mata has been constantly deployed on the right wing although he doesn’t have the pace, and strength to attack. Off the ball he doesn’t have the strength to defend the ball and we have seen him get run around by fullbacks when trying to receive the bAll.
My problem with ole is that he should have analyzed this by now that mata is a weak link against any decent team. It’s his own formation and so he should know that playing mata decreases any chance of us winning that game. Of course there were injuries so we were limited to who could play but rashford should have been moved to the right while LUkaku played down the center.
They had a man between Young/Lindelof then Lindelof/Bailly and a midfielder close by which tied those three up and stopped Young from engaging Bernat down his side. It happened over and over, we didn't come up with a way to stop it.
Let's be realistic here, Ole has done a fantastic job so far but there are still viable question marks over him. We saw it in the 2nd half against Spurs and Arsenal where both teams figured out our counter and pinned us back from there on out.
At the end of the day, we want to win the CL, the PL etc. If we're going to build a great team then I just want to be sure we have the right man lesding them. I love Ole but there's no room for sentiment when making that decision.
Just my 2 cents.
Exactly. I'm glad someone else has seen it too.
Things couldn't have gone better for us since Ole came. I'm over the moon with him. I would love him to show he is capable of taking us back to the top.
But there's no room for error at the top which we witnessed tonight.
I was waiting for his response to Tuchel's tactics in the 2nd half and nothing came. The fact that we seen this against Spurs & Arsenal too has made me start questioning things. I'm not a sheep.
Bold 1: Yes, he was desperate... For PSG to assert their dominance and score a goal... He wasn't threatened by us.
Bold 2: So Solksjaer has no influence over what happens once the game starts? Tuchel had our team figured out from the first whistle. We never adapted to his tactics. You think that is okay?
Bold 3: And to say i must want Mourinho back instead then, what an absolutely absurd thing to say. Totally disrespectful.
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Both goals could have been avoided in another game but you cannot be perfect in any match for 90 minutes otherwise there wont be a goal at all. The two games both against PSG and then liverpool and Mancity - a total of 4 games should indicate the level of our team. It would be a valuable learning curve.
The injuries didn't change the result, the rhythm of the first half shows that in abundance.
We were lucky to not go in half time at 1-0 we didn't create a single chance from open play, Martial was non existent and Jesse offers nothing going wide so when he typically inverts to a central position, the two Brazilians and Kimpembe have everything in front of them. Its not Ole's fault we lack balance in our team but when it's clear as day we have NO natural wingers in the side (including Martial who's inside forward) why not go 3 at the back and use Shaw and Young as wingbacks it would have stretched the play further up the pitch.
We were lucky to not go in half time at 1-0 we didn't create a single chance from open play, Martial was non existent and Jesse offers nothing going wide so when he typically inverts to a central position, the two Brazilians and Kimpembe have everything in front of them. Its not Ole's fault we lack balance in our team but when it's clear as day we have NO natural wingers in the side (including Martial who's inside forward) why not go 3 at the back and use Shaw and Young as wingbacks it would have stretched the play further up the pitch.
He played a CB in midfield to specifically go man-to-man with Pogba. Not only did it stifle Pogba and limit his impact in attacking areas, it also made him a liability. By not allowing him to get on the ball and make things happen, you're forcing him to be a more disciplined midfielder and effect the games in other ways, which he's not going to do. They targeted his defensive fragility tonight by having Draxler run off him and occupy the space he was supposed to be in; something that was evident in the first half and continued throughout the 90 minutes. I'd say rendering your opponent's best player useless and exploiting his weaknesses is a pretty good example of tactically outdoing someone. At the highest level, you have to be able to make adjustments and Solskjaer didn't. A potential solution would've been to move Pogba deeper because Marquinhos, who was superb, isn't going to be able to shadow him, which means you're able to get your best player on the ball, even if it is in deeper areas, and fill the space Draxler was exploiting all night all in one simple change.
You also had Alves, a right back, playing on the right wing and doubling up on our best wide player. Martial was struggling even before the injury because we weren't able to get him the ball with Kehrer isolated. Flip that around and look at their best wide player, Di Maria, and look at the amount of times they isolated him with Young. That was a clear part of their game plan from the word go; they obviously liked the Di Maria/Young matchup and wanted to exploit it because it was a problem, especially with Bernat's overlapping runs, even when Lingard was on, who's very good at fulfilling his defensive responsibilities. By bringing on Mata you're only exacerbating the problem. An alternative change would've been Dalot for Lingard in an attempt to counter Di Maria by utilising the same tactic Tuchel adopted to limit Martial.
You have to be able to acknowledge the game isn't going to take the same pattern when you lose Martial and Lingard and change what you're doing. They're a huge part of how we want to play and you can't replicate that with Mata and Sanchez but that's what he tried to do.
Tuchel is one of the very best tactically speaking, so if you're talking about OGS as a caretaker and not a potential permanent manager of one of the world's biggest clubs, there's no shame in being outdone by him. But he is being touted by some as our next manager so he should be judged against those standards, and imo, he's done very little to prove he belongs at this level, and I say that based on his overall time here, not just tonight. This club needs an elite manager.
Good post, even if I think the conclusion is premature. But the real concern is that finally a top manager worked out a plan to overcome us and thus provided a blueprint for other teams too. Just as City showed that Jorginho can be turned from a strength into a weakness, so did Tuchel do with Pogba--expect other teams to try and man mark him similarly. Similarly with the exploitation of our lopsidedness. I still have hope though that Ole and Phelan and Carrick can come up with some solutions, and alternative tactics/personnel for when we dont have Lingard.
I would try Pereira or Chong on the right to keep the pace and pressing, with Rashford instead of Martial if he's out, and Greenwood or Lukaku up front. But we need some easy games for these experiments or a pre-season, yet we have big game after big game now.
We can all see the problems in the squad, we will only really be able to judge Ole when we see how he performs in the transfer market and how his buys affect the team.
This is it really
He showed post match that he isn’t just another delusional manager. He realises the alexis problem and the Lingard/martial problem (when they aren’t available). This to me is a good sign.
They didn’t create crap in the first half either. We weren’t lucky not to be losing. Neither team really deserved a goal before there was a goal.
First three paras great. I wrote similar myself elsewhere, but disagree with your overall conclusion.
In a way, we should welcome the fact that this is going to happen now. This means Ole will get a real challenge to prove himself before he is handed the permanent job. If he fails to tactically adjust to this, then we will definitely miss out on Top 4. So everything depends on how well he adapts himself tactically.
If Tuchel can do it, I am sure the likes of Guardiola are already thinking of ways either similar to or different than this to stop our key players. The real test begins now.
People have been sitting on reasons not to appoint Solskjaer but haven't been able to break them out until he lost a game. A lot of shit throwing going on but nothing is sticking.Ole has been here for 12 fecking games and now he needs his own Carlos Quieroz in Europe? What are you people basing that off?
This one game, where we we're severely unlucky in getting two injuries?
Ole was under a lot of pressure last night - all kinds of crap happened in a shock period of the game between the injuries, half time and their goals. But they didn’t hammer us and our errors gifted them a victory. The lads need some sober reflection after a poor performance, and some advance planning around alternative strategies when the game plan goes pear-shaped. If we beat Chelsea, this game will hurt like the lost points against Burnley and will fire them up. After five seasons of crap managers, and pathetic excuses, I don’t feel at all worried this morning.
I don't think it was a tactical masterclass. I think they were lucky with their goal which gave them control of the tie. They could afford to sit deep and crowd us out, whilst diving and cheating their way through the game. We were naive in the conditions I could see it a mile off. PSG are seasoned CL knockout professionals, they know how to handle these kind of ties. We as a squad aren't. It will take time to get to the levels of PSG, maybe 5 years. That's not my concern as a United fan, my concern in the next 1-2 years is challenging for the PL, qualifying for the CL and having a decent run, playing with attacking football. If we had been drawn against a lesser team we could have maybe got to the quarter finals. I don't think there's any point in getting worked up over losing to a far superior squad of players.What's wrong with me offering my thoughts immediately following the match? This is a discussion board isn't it?
I agree that on another night, things could have been different but i'm talking about events that happened. It's irrelevant to me that Kimpembe scored after he was fortunate to not have been sent off. Because Ole should have been able to come up with a solution to us being out-played in the first half. He would have seen that half too.
At half-time, anyone could see that the team had been figured out by Tuchel. He had Pogba marked out the game and we were unable to do anything about it. If that's all it takes to neutralise us, we're in trouble.
I disagree that we were 'causing them a few problems'. It was comfortable for PSG. How many chances did we create in the 1st half? We were schooled.
It was up to Ole to turn things around; counter Tuchel, lift the players and he never did. That cannot be argued surely?
There's no shame in losing to the better team. PSG were top class. They're at the level we aspire to be at. Stacked with world-class players.
Saying 'they scored a lucky goal which gave them control of the tie' is completely wrong though. The pattern of the game was set after 20 mins. PSG were in total control after that and it was a matter of when they would finally score. You could see Tuchel going ballistic on the touchline as they squandered dangerous positions. Mbappe should have scored in the 1st half really.
What was concerning to me is that it looked like Ole had no answer for the tactics by Tuchel. We looked completely neutralised. Even Kimpembe alluded to it in his post-match interview that it was 'no secret how to stop the attack, we prepared a lot'.
In contrast, we had no answer for Dani Alves playing hybrid CM/Wing-Back. No answer for Marquinhos on Pogba. No answer for Di Maria isolating himself vs Young. No answer for Martial/Rashford being sewn up by the narrow defence.
People are kidding themselves if they think that PSG 'got lucky' or we got 'unlucky'. Credit where it's due, we got our arses handed to us.
Are people not concerned by this?
The same thing happened vs Arsenal & Spurs in the 2nd half too. It's definitely concerning to me.
Now that Tuchel has provided the blueprint, we can expect other teams to employ similar tactics now.
In a way, i'm glad PSG exposed us like this.
Now we can find out whether Ole has got what it takes to become our permanent manager.
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Watching right now?
Missed it, but nice result. It took him 5 years to win a KO tie, maybe we should give some time to our manager to do it too.
There's 2 absolutely huge games coming up where we get to test how Ole deals with adversity. I think it's much more prudent to see those games first before passing judgement. Even the best managers will lose games and get outsmarted here and there. I agree with the thoughts of many here about putting Sanchez in the centre with Rashford and Lukaku flanking him. Will it work? Who knows, but it's time to get creative. By the end of the season there'll be a veritable body of work for the board to base their decision on. I have a feeling the answer won't be difficult come May.
This result doesn’t change the fact that ole (and the coaching staff that he has enabled to meaningfully contribute) has transformed the fortunes of the team and given us back “our United”. Whether he achieves instant success or takes a few years to get it right I’m convinced he’s the man for the job.
Well, he seems aware of what we need considering what he said after the game. He didn't come out and pointed the finger on some players or so, he knows that the team we have in hands still not good enough to challenge on the biggest stages yet. Him and the board should have a reaction next few month.
I Think Sanchez is a spent force and i don't think it is tactical or mental but rather physical. His body movement and acceleration and dribbling have all gone. A Torroes/A Falcao ..etc Story.
This to me. The Sanchez comments were pretty damning. I can't see him lasting if ole gets the job. Lukaku too. Only 7 minutes played in the biggest game this season. Tbh anyome who got rid of fellaini that quickly should be trusted with his judgement on players
Time for Ole to throw in some kids who are rapid. We can be having the slow, ponderous impotent attack that we showed in the 2nd half against PSG going forward.
I want Ole to get a better left back than Shaw or learn him to cross a ball. He either shits his pants and shoots it into the defender like Valencia, or he slows our play down plotting his next move for a good few seconds. He is also weirdly inconsistent when positioning himself defensively. He used to have speed but he plays like he is the furthest thing from a pacey United LB. Slow midfielder posing as a LB. I like him so it hurts but Ole has to be ruthless here.
Just heard the news that Lingard and Martial might not make it to the Liverpool match. So we didn't just lose a Champions League match. Our season might just be over already with that disaster of a match... And with Europa League looming, Ed Woodward might not keep Ole longer. How one match can change our entire fortune for years! 
They're doubts for Chelsea, not Liverpool....Just heard the news that Lingard and Martial might not make it to the Liverpool match. So we didn't just lose a Champions League match. Our season might just be over already with that disaster of a match... And with Europa League looming, Ed Woodward might not keep Ole longer. How one match can change our entire fortune for years!
Chill out. We are not exactly playing a six-pointer there. Would be great to knock Liverpool off the top of the table but losing won't send us straight to the EL.Just heard the news that Lingard and Martial might not make it to the Liverpool match. So we didn't just lose a Champions League match. Our season might just be over already with that disaster of a match... And with Europa League looming, Ed Woodward might not keep Ole longer. How one match can change our entire fortune for years!