That's not a bad call - the new Victor Moses.
With AWB why not play him at RCB? It seems a perfect fit for him in a back three.
Time to go with 3 at the back
- Thread starter shabz
- Start date
With AWB why not play him at RCB? It seems a perfect fit for him in a back three.
Honestly I think Williams is better at WB than AWB in the final third. But I'd be ok with AWB playing as the RWB in a tight game because then with Shaw as the left sided CB in a 3 you could switch to a 4 when required.
our midfield is a massive part of our problem, Matic and pogba are done, we need move on from this rubbish, need players who can actually tackle and get in about opposition players.
No back 3 for me
------ Henderson --------
-‐----------------------------------------------
AWB - Bailly - Maguire -- Telles
------------‐------------------------------------
------------------- Fred ---------------------
VDB --- Bruno -- Pogba -- Rashord
--------------------------------------------
------------- Cavani ---------------
Edit: this is the only place I would play Pogba - higher up the pitch.
------ Henderson --------
-‐----------------------------------------------
AWB - Bailly - Maguire -- Telles
------------‐------------------------------------
------------------- Fred ---------------------
VDB --- Bruno -- Pogba -- Rashord
--------------------------------------------
------------- Cavani ---------------
Edit: this is the only place I would play Pogba - higher up the pitch.
See I would do it differently
Henderson
AWB Lindelof Maguire Telles
Donny Fred Matic Pogba
Bruno
Rashford
AWB Lindelof Maguire Telles
Donny Fred Matic Pogba
Bruno
Rashford
Yeah just gotta stop looking at individual names and look at team balance and finding a system that works best for everyone.
Start from the back, Maguire is our captain and our best CB, but lacks pace desperately. Means you need to cover both sides with pace. Lindelof is too soft to be one of 2 main CB's, but the right of a back 3 is fine and he's fast enough to cover for Maguire on one side. Shaw on the other likewise, while his lack of positioning is also less exposed than when he's a LB in a flat back 4. His strength is progressing with the ball through the middle third which he can still do as a LCB, before passing it off and going back. As a pure LB, he gets caught out of positioning, doesn't have the speed or energy to go up and down all day, and has 0 quality on the ball past the middle 3rd of the pitch. So keep him back.
Go to midfield. We just signed Telles who is excellent at holding a wide position and excellent technique at passing it around, while offering good creativity/delivery from the left. This in turn helps Rashford on the left wing as he now has a natural wide left player to overlap/hold width, with Rashford playing his inside forward role. RWB we don't really have the same situation, but Wan Bissaka can offer good solidity from that side and then let's just hope he improves from an on ball perspective... But if we mirrored Telles to the right side, then it would make sense for Greenwood on the right wing, to get a balanced 3-4-3 going.
Centrally of course you need to balance it out. Either we do a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3. 3-4-3 works best for our front 3 to be in their natural positions (with Cavani rotating for the striker) but then you need 2 good all round midfielders who can offer good ball progression, passing, control but also energy, positioning and stability. Fred/McTominay/Matic and Bruno/Van de Beek are probably the closest to a 2 who would make a partnership there. Pogba only works in a midfield 3 and needs to be most advanced, and even then he just doesn't fit in that well. There isn't a single lineup where he fits in normally. He's just not worth planning around. If we go 3-5-2, then IMO a midfield of Bruno, Van De Beek and Fred behind them balances it out quite nicely. Then your front 2 we have Rashford and Martial, with Greenwood and Cavani rotating in. Cavani an obvious out and out striker, while the other 3 are all inside forward types who would do best in a partnership like that, so it would work.
De Gea
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Wan Bissaka Fred VdB Telles
Bruno
Rashford Martial
Henderson
Bailly Mengi Tuanzebe
James Mctominay Matic Williams
Pogba
Greenwood Cavani
Or, what I'd like to see as a sort of half long term view starting 11 by getting the best blend of hard workers and talented on ball players in their right positions (Van de beek and Bruno I feel should both be playing in deeper positions compared to right now anyway, to get the best out of them).Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Wan Bissaka Fred VdB Telles
Bruno
Rashford Martial
Henderson
Bailly Mengi Tuanzebe
James Mctominay Matic Williams
Pogba
Greenwood Cavani
Henderson
Tuanzebe Maguire Shaw
Williams Bruno VdB Telles
Greenwood Martial Rashford
Tuanzebe Maguire Shaw
Williams Bruno VdB Telles
Greenwood Martial Rashford
Just when you thought the season couldn't look anymore grim. Some disgusting looking line-ups in here.
It seems like theres a new thread on this at least once a week.
Fernandes has been underwhelming? Who else would you have got to play AM? Or would you have kept Lingard & Pereira, and Mata.
We are consistently poor when we play it
Won't want AWB anywhere near the CB positions since I don't trust his positioning. Besides, being at CB takes away his greatest asset in tackling people and going to the ground. Too risky doing that as a CB. Would rather play James as a RWB with Bailly Maguire Shaw as the three and Telles as the LWB. The formation also gives us atleast one suitable cover for every position on the pitch. TBH it is increasingly looking like AWBs lack of ability on the ball would mean that he doesn't get a place in the team unless we continue to insist with the 4231 and even there I'd argue that someone like Williams or even Laird might be more useful if given chances.
James isn't very effective attacking from the right. Have you seen him play this right wingback position before? What opposition and how well did James do?
Right now we are even poorer playing a 4-man defense.
Ole rates Shaw. I think that with Telles and without Martial plus with shambolic defence display lately, we will go with 3412. Against Newcastle for sure.
Ddg
Awb,Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw, Telles
VDB ( Ole is under pressure to play him)
Pogba, Bruno
Rashford, Greenwood
Ddg
Awb,Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw, Telles
VDB ( Ole is under pressure to play him)
Pogba, Bruno
Rashford, Greenwood
Wouldn't be all over a chance to sign him now. If the plan was to play him in the midfield structure we are using right now, then yes, underwhelming.
The bolded part makes sense. I wouldn't want Bailly anywhere near RCB if his RB performance against PSG is anything to go by
Not the worst shout that. Wan Bissaka certainly isn't good enough to play RWB. Greenwood isn't defensive enough clearly. So it's either Brandon or James.
Personally think our current formation has been sussed. Teams know what's coming and know how to exploit it.
Not really but I'm just thinking from the perspective that he is hard working and has a decent engine on him. Besides, it's a choice between the options we have which would be AWB, Williams or maybe even Laird. The former two are probably not going to be better than James attacking wise. I do like Laird but hoping he takes a starting spot this early on in the season would be wishful thinking.
Well the way I look at it, beggars can't really be choosers. The other option at RCB would be Lindelof. Atleast with two other CBs you could hope for strength in numbers. Besides RCB and LCB need to have a little bit of pace about them in case they have to go one on one with the winger on that side and I'd trust Bailly there than Lindelof mostly.
Well if it's Bailly or Lindelof then yes, it would have to be Bailly.
Yet we weren't two months ago. I'm sorry but this knee jerk nonsense has to stop. We found a formula that worked at the end of last season. Since then we have had mostly fitness issues as we are 3 games into the season.
We played 3 at the back when we were trounced by chelsea. And everytime we have played that system, despite some wins, we are always dominated. We are not a three at the back team. Let's focus on ourselves and stop looking outside for once.
Going 5-3-2 would protect both our defense and Paul&Bruno, until Maguire's psyche gets back to normal then time to go for that diamond midfield
We should definitely play 3 at the back, it’s our strongest department.
De Gea Henderson Romero
De Gea Henderson Romero
This would also allow Maguire to carry the ball forward. Something he is actually decent at
Yeah I think it might be the best way to have a functional right side in the team. One of the biggest problems right now is that attacks either come from the left or the center. You can see that the opposition doesn't mind wan bissaka isolated with one person on the right because let's be honest, what is he going to ever do. Reckon James would have the beating of a single defender on most of the occasions. Where he struggles is when there are a couple of defenders on the flanks
Honestly, TFM might be a decent shout for a RCB too.Well if it's Bailly or Lindelof then yes, it would have to be Bailly.
3-4-1-2
DDG/Henderson
Bailly, Maguire, Shaw
AWB, Matic, Fred, Telles
Bruno
Cavani, Greenwood/Martial/Rashford
DDG/Henderson
Bailly, Maguire, Shaw
AWB, Matic, Fred, Telles
Bruno
Cavani, Greenwood/Martial/Rashford
Ole got slated for going to a back three against Chelsea, ignoring the fact that previously we had had some good results when we switched. I'm guessing this has shook his confidence to go back there a bit.
Our defence clearly needs help and we don't have the personnel in midfield to provide that. I can see why people are looking at a switch in formation, it could be a bit of a wake-up a reset for the season (we've seen this happen with other teams).
Our defence clearly needs help and we don't have the personnel in midfield to provide that. I can see why people are looking at a switch in formation, it could be a bit of a wake-up a reset for the season (we've seen this happen with other teams).
I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the next few league games with Martial being suspended and Cavani (still feels strange to write his name) probably not ready to start. Play Rashford and Greenwood upfront.
AWB as a wingback obviously isn't ideal, but once he's actually in an attacking position his final ball is normally decent. Hopefully playing at wingback would allow him to get into those positions more often instead of trying to help with the build up out of the back (which he's terrible at).
Once Martial is back I expect we'd go back to 4231 though, unless 532 is actually working really well.
AWB as a wingback obviously isn't ideal, but once he's actually in an attacking position his final ball is normally decent. Hopefully playing at wingback would allow him to get into those positions more often instead of trying to help with the build up out of the back (which he's terrible at).
Once Martial is back I expect we'd go back to 4231 though, unless 532 is actually working really well.
We'd ship way too many goals. We are not athletic enough, bar Bailly, but he is mistake prone-see Tottenham match. Feck!
It never seems to work for us. Probably because as with these threads it's just something we suddenly feel might suit our current crop of players. I think 532 only works under a manager who really believes in it being the way , like Conte and Nuno the Wolves manager.
Against Chelsea and generally, it hasn't worked for us because of lack of decent wingbacks. This formation can never work with AWB and Shaw as the wingbacks. But now, with Telles and having one of James or Williams as the other wingback might just work. Besides I think the formation is only about how you set up, the tactics when the players are on the pitch can vary wildly. Nuno and Conte play this formation in a certain way but Leipzig, Dortmund and even Sheffield United play the same formation but with vastly different tactics which I think we could do better with our current crop.
So Ole had made us spend 145m on defenders only for us to switch to a 5 men defence cause they are not good enough? Yikes
Yes but I believe it requires a manager with the vision of playing that way. I haven't seen it from anyone at United bar maybe LVG during a phase. The likes of Mourinho and Ole have their preferred system and switch to the 532 the odd game or few it makes sense to them. Making the signing of Telles and Cavani represents a shift, but I'm not sure. For a team with a lack of goals, we'd effectively have to sacrifice an attacking player or a midfielder.
I still can't understand how we've spent this much on the defense for it to have become such a huge problem. Just when our attack was started to come together the midfield and defense falls to pieces.
I actually think Wan Bissakas best position could be right of a back three.
It was never a good idea to add a slow CB in a central defence unit that already had Lindelof and Matic in it especially with DDG refusing to leave his line even if his own life depends on it. Someone like prime Anelka would rip a new one on that static central unit. It also didn't make sense adding a defensive wing back when we already had Shaw.
However what's more concerning is how players tend to start well only for their performance level to nosedive after a couple of months. It happened to almost everybody from ADM to Bailly right to Pogba, Lukaku, Maguire, AWB and Bruno. Meanwhile Lukaku came out saying how Inter saved his career by sending him to a nutritionist, Sanchez had stated of wanting out after the first training session and VDB had already showed some signs of unrest. That's not nice at all. A closer look to our training coach team might explain why we're in such shambles. If you take Phelan out of the equation there's not much experience in there. We probably have the least experienced coaching team in the EPL (Ole, Pert, Carrick, fake Philip Neville, Clegg, Dempsey etc). You'd expect that an inexperienced manager would surround himself with experienced people but no, not our Ole.
If we're playing 3 at the back:
------------Henderson-----------
----Bailly-Maguire-Shaw----
AWB--------Fred--------Telles
------Bruno--------V. Beek---------
----Greenwood-Martial-----
You could easily swap McTominay for Fred, Pogba for VdB, Rashford for Martial.
------------Henderson-----------
----Bailly-Maguire-Shaw----
AWB--------Fred--------Telles
------Bruno--------V. Beek---------
----Greenwood-Martial-----
You could easily swap McTominay for Fred, Pogba for VdB, Rashford for Martial.
If 3 at the back gives more defensive stability someone forgot to tell the Bundesliga teams. Half of them now play 3 at the back and the defending in the Bundesliga is shite across the board.
He went back to 3 at the back and rested 4 first teamers at same time. That was the difference.
I'm not sure the issue is if it's 3 or 4 at the back, the way I see it it's the high defensive line and the insistence of playing out from the back.
Our centerbacks are slow and defensive midfield is not our strong point. We do however have good creative midfielders and skillful pacey forwards who can exploit space.
Staying compact, drawing in opposition and hitting them on the counter is how we should be playing. Not how most fans want to see us play, but it's what suits the squad we have, plays to our strengths and minimizes our weaknesses.
Our centerbacks are slow and defensive midfield is not our strong point. We do however have good creative midfielders and skillful pacey forwards who can exploit space.
Staying compact, drawing in opposition and hitting them on the counter is how we should be playing. Not how most fans want to see us play, but it's what suits the squad we have, plays to our strengths and minimizes our weaknesses.