Timo Werner | Chelsea Player

AshRK

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2 weeks ago chelsea fans here became defensive when I said Giroud looks more threatening attacker than Werner but it is the truth. Even today it was a shock thay lampard didn't bring on Giroud when he would have done so much better than werner or Harvetz or tammy.
 

Okey

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Has he been tried as the CF yet? I know he's usually played out wide but he's a proven goal scorer (Bundesliga, National team). Might just thrive up front. Quite strange how he and Havertz (even worse) are failing to settle in.
 

WeePat

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Including 6-12 month loan deals in a list of strikers who have failed at Chelsea is just embellishing for the sake of embellishing.
 

el3mel

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How did they manage to turn this :


into what I have seen today ? I can't believe it. They look 2 drastically different players it's ridiculous.
 

TheReligion

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Including 6-12 month loan deals in a list of strikers who have failed at Chelsea is just embellishing for the sake of embellishing.
Meh is it though? Loan or otherwise it's clearly an issue. That list is pretty astonishing really. Fair play to Tammy as despite his limitations he's making the money spent on that lot look even worse.
 

RyRoc

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Haven’t watched enough of him but from the little I’ve seen , he doesn’t look technical enough to play the sort of role they are asking him too..
 

GameOn

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Has he been tried as the CF yet? I know he's usually played out wide but he's a proven goal scorer (Bundesliga, National team). Might just thrive up front. Quite strange how he and Havertz (even worse) are failing to settle in.
15 goals in 35 apps for a nation like Germany is hardly impressive as a striker (he plays as a real striker for Germany) .

Especially when you consider that most of his goals came against the likes of Saudi Arabia, Norway, Ukrain's B-team etc. (no offense to those countries of course).
 

hasanejaz88

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15 goals in 35 apps for a nation like Germany is hardly impressive as a striker (he plays as a real striker for Germany) .

Especially when you consider that most of his goals came against the likes of Saudi Arabia, Norway, Ukrain's B-team etc. (no offense to those countries of course).
He's also scored against France, Netherlands, Spain and Switzerland though.
 

eire-red

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Early doors yet, but him and Havertz look like a massive waste of money. It might just take them time to adapt, both are young players in a new league, and in a team in transition so who knows.

I wonder how many iffy results before the pressure starts mounting on Lampard, given the quality and size of his squad and the money he spent over the summer.
 

eire-red

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Both Werner and Havertz have stated they prefer playing central.

Lampard will forever play him out wide to accommodate Tammy at any opportunity. Same as Havertz being shifted around to accommodate Mount.

Ideally, Pulisic (left), Ziyech (right) and Werner at striker. Havertz slightly behind Werner with Kovacic and Kante further back.

It’s almost a 4231 formation but can easily be changed in game. It clearly gets the best from our players whilst playing them in their favoured position.

There is not a hope in hell that Lampard will play these and drop Mount and Tammy. It just won’t happen, however until players are played in their correct positions, I will refrain from judgement. Lampard’s decision making at times is utterly baffling.

That being said, we have started okay and are routinely disposing of poor teams. However, Lampard needs some belief in his team to have a go at a decent team.
Where would you fit Mount in? Most of the games I watch he seems to be your most influential player.
 

kaiser1

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De Bruyne, Son, Aubameyang, Gündogan, Sané, Pulisic etc. have all shown their class in the PL, when they were healthy.

For some reason there is this myth, that Bundesliga players don't do well in the PL, when guys like Son or De Bruyne are playing even better in the PL, than they did in the Bundesliga.

I think that has to do with United falling for two actual system players (Kagawa, Mkhitaryan) and Chelsea recently also falling for fools gold (Werner).

People just have to watch tape. It has always been clear that Werner was likely to become a flop. He was a total system player for Leipzig, which I and many others have repeated over and over again. Leipzig took maximum advantage of his one calling card - his pace. Take that calling card away and he is a second division striker.
The main reason Bayern passed on him despite his low release clause and him begging Bayern hard. Bayern paid almost twice for Sane who was coming from a season long injury in a complicated transfer because they knew Werner without space to run into was not very effective
 

hasanejaz88

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The main reason Bayern passed on him despite his low release clause and him begging Bayern hard
Flick wanted him over Sane, Salihamizic didn't agree. So let's not use that has a measure of his ability.
 

kaiser1

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Flick wanted him over Sane, Salihamizic didn't agree. So let's not use that has a measure of his ability.
Before Flick, the entire Bayern management saw Werner, knew he was available and passed on him which was why he signed a 1yr extension and 30m release clause.

Bayern already decided on Sane over Werner before Flick joined. Most Bayern transfers are done by the management and coaches are just allowed a little input
 

Moby

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It's so great watching him as an oppo. Everytime Chelsea have the ball I'm literally praying it goes to Werner over anyone else. Even if he's in wide open space with just one player to beat it's basically 'that's that for that attack'. :lol:

On course to join the Shevchenko/Torres pantheon of great Chelsea strikers.
 

hasanejaz88

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Before Flick, the entire Bayern management saw Werner, knew he was available and passed on him which was why he signed a 1yr extension and 30m release clause.

Bayern already decided on Sane over Werner before Flick joined. Most Bayern transfers are done by the management and coaches are just allowed a little input
Erm yes, I know all of that.

You said Bayern rejected Werner so that means he isn't that good, but that's not accurate because the coach wanted to sign him, the management didn't. So there was one, very important, person who did rate him and wanted him.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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Forwards that Chelsea have bought this century:

Higuain, Morata, Pedro, Costa, Falcao, Remy, Salah, Eto'o, Ba, Lukaku, Torres, Sturridge, Anelka, Di Santo, Schevchenko, Drogba, Kezman, Crespo, Mutu, Hasselbaink

I'd only consider 4 out of 18 to be successes. In particular, the likes of Torres, Crespo, Schevchenko, Kezman and Eto'o were all big disappointments given their reputations.

Stamford Bridge is a graveyard for striking talent. Add Werner to the list.

Edit: added Higuain and Morata
Pato?
 

el3mel

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Forwards that Chelsea have bought this century:

Higuain, Morata, Pedro, Costa, Falcao, Remy, Salah, Eto'o, Ba, Lukaku, Torres, Sturridge, Anelka, Di Santo, Schevchenko, Drogba, Kezman, Crespo, Mutu, Hasselbaink

I'd only consider 4 out of 18 to be successes. In particular, the likes of Torres, Crespo, Schevchenko, Kezman and Eto'o were all big disappointments given their reputations.

Stamford Bridge is a graveyard for striking talent. Add Werner to the list.

Edit: added Higuain and Morata
Salah wasn't a striker. He was a right winger back then.
 

duffer

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People forgetting Claudio Pizzaro at Chelsea as well :D
We didn't buy him so he won't go on
Forwards that Chelsea have bought this century:

Higuain, Morata, Pedro, Costa, Falcao, Remy, Salah, Eto'o, Ba, Lukaku, Torres, Sturridge, Anelka, Di Santo, Schevchenko, Drogba, Kezman, Crespo, Mutu, Hasselbaink

I'd only consider 4 out of 18 to be successes. In particular, the likes of Torres, Crespo, Schevchenko, Kezman and Eto'o were all big disappointments given their reputations.

Stamford Bridge is a graveyard for striking talent. Add Werner to the list.

Edit: added Higuain and Morata
We didn't buy Hasselbaink this century, we bought him last century.

I'll take my pedant hat off now.
 

TwoSheds

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Where would you fit Mount in? Most of the games I watch he seems to be your most influential player.
Mount? He does look very generic, are you confusing him with someone else?
 

giorno

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He's low on confidence.

Also yeah, damn, what is it about chelsea that saps the life out of strikers? Even out of their 2 big successes in the Roman era, Diego Costa actually wanted out like 6 months in!
 

Haddock

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Some (Germans?) used to joke that an Englishman's second touch was a sliding tackle. Werner's touch is like that. The guy makes Lukaku look like Mata. There was a moment today where he received the ball in the box and his first touch sent it near the corner flag. Werner still won the ball before his man because he's rapid but (predictably) proceeded to put it out of play.


 
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duffer

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Some (Germans?) used to joke that an Englishman's second touch was a sliding tackle. Werner's touch is like that. The guy makes Lukaku look like Mata. There was a moment today where he received the ball in the box and his first touch sent it near the corner flag. Werner still won the ball before his man because he's rapid but (predictably) proceeded to put it out of play.

His first touch in that clip is with his left foot and the control is absolutely fine. He then uses his right to take the ball away.

It's strange/shit decision making but that clip show he has a decemt first touch, not a bad one!
 

FrankDrebin

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Some (Germans?) used to joke that an Englishman's second touch was a sliding tackle. Werner's touch is like that. The guy makes Lukaku look like Mata. There was a moment today where he received the ball in the box and his first touch sent it near the corner flag. Werner still won the ball before his man because he's rapid but (predictably) proceeded to put it out of play.

I did find that humorous last night.
 

hasanejaz88

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While Werner's finishing has been poor lately, what was always there was his general build up play and being a danger in and around the box. That was what was missing yesterday and made his performance all the more frustrating.

I was going to write a long post about how Lampard should try playing Werner in the center but decided to look back at some recent matches touch maps to see the positioning of Werner. To be fair to Lampard, Werner does have a very free-roaming touch map, which does indicate Lampard has given him license to play across the final third, and even deeper at times, like he did at RB. Though against Arsenal he was very much restricted to the left wing and barely had any touches in the center (a common theme when Lampard decides to play defensively).

One key difference between Werner of past seasons and this season though is Werner's touches in the attacking third+penalty box, which have fallen from his last season at RB (37.45 per 90 last season versus 30.52 this season). In terms of goal-creating actions Werner is actually third in Chelsea (behind Ziyech and CHO) and 10th in the Premier League, which suggests he is contributing to their attack a lot.

Ultimately, I think it's his horrible finishing (his xG differential is -3!) and that is what's making his performances look worse. His problem is similar to Martial, he's doing everything right other than putting the ball into the back of the net.
 

Hansi Fick

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It is well known that his first touch tends to be like a concrete wall at times, which is also one of the reasons why certain top clubs declined to go after him. He's just not that great, or let's say he's inconsistent, in terms of technique.
 

MayosNoun

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He needs to play up front on the shoulder of the last defender. His confidence is being destroyed by the manager who is happy to play him everywhere but his favoured position.

I really feel for Werner and Havertz. They’re continuously played out of position and then hooked when it doesn’t work and they’ll eventually be labelled as flops when the blame lies with the manager.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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He needs to play up front on the shoulder of the last defender. His confidence is being destroyed by the manager who is happy to play him everywhere but his favoured position.

I really feel for Werner and Havertz. They’re continuously played out of position and then hooked when it doesn’t work and they’ll eventually be labelled as flops when the blame lies with the manager.
Most teams are going to sit off Chelsea so what, he doesn't start those games?
 

Maluco

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Sign a striker and number 8 for 130 million and then play both out of position to accommodate Mount and Abraham.

Why go for these players if you weren’t going to allow them to play in their favourite positions in a new league?
 

saivet

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Sign a striker and number 8 for 130 million and then play both out of position to accommodate Mount and Abraham.

Why go for these players if you weren’t going to allow them to play in their favourite positions in a new league?
From my observations Werner probably isn't a striker you want leading the line in a 433. With Havertz, he has played as a number 8 on quite a few occasions and simply hasn't been very good and Mount has outperformed him playing in the same position. I didn't watch much of Werner in Germany but I think it looks a bad fit for him at Chelsea as I don't think they will play a system to get the best out of him under Lampard.
 

Maluco

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From my observations Werner probably isn't a striker you want leading the line in a 433. With Havertz, he has played as a number 8 on quite a few occasions and simply hasn't been very good and Mount has outperformed him playing in the same position. I didn't watch much of Werner in Germany but I think it looks a bad fit for him at Chelsea as I don't think they will play a system to get the best out of him under Lampard.
Probably not, but surely if you buy these players, you need to have a system in mind, and you need a little patience too.
 

giorno

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He's playing fairly well and contributing positively.

His finishing has been crap.

He hasn't lit the league on fire, as per expectations when he was supposed to sign for liverpool.

If he doesn't score or assist it's hard to appreciate what he does because most of the good stuff happens off the ball. On top of that he's erratic with the ball

He's the new Lukaku :lol:
 

iammemphis

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Personally i think he'll become the keagues top scorer within a season or two. He's still settling in. I think he's looked awesome apart from snatching at a fair few of his chances.