We changed our formation when we were in attack and defence.
24
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Cheers, I didn't remember that.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...sahs-best-position-for-manchester-united.aspx
FOSU-MENSAH COULD FOLLOW SCHWEINSTEIGER
Louis van Gaal has yet to determine the best position for Tim Fosu-Mensah and admits the Manchester United youngster could emulate Bastian Schweinsteiger's switch at Bayern Munich.
United fans who have followed the Dutch defender's rise through the ranks will have seen him excel in the centre-back, full-back and central midfield positions during spells for the Under-18s, Under-21s and most recently the first team.
When asked during Thursday's press conference whether Fosu-Mensah's future could be in midfield, the manager said the options are still open for the 18-year-old and recalled how he nurtured and converted a young Schweinsteiger when he was Bayern boss.
"It is dependable on vacancies in your squad," declared van Gaal. "You have seen that players in my squad are playing in different positions than what they are used to in their former careers. It is also a little bit of luck. When there is a vacancy and you think a young player has the quality to play there, you give him the chance. If he takes the chance then that makes him already mentally a good player.
"You cannot say that a player is [just] a full-back. You can see qualities and you make a profile of positions and then you look at the qualities of a player and see if he can fit that. Can he do that, can he perform that? Maybe he shall perform it and then he sticks to that position and then he is the best of all.
"You can ask Bastian Schweinsteiger who, at Bayern Munich, played on the right side, the right wing. I made him a centre midfielder because I looked at his profile and I thought that he can better play in the middle and he enjoys it more than on the right side. I have changed a lot of positions of players."
Fosu-Mensah is just one of a number of young Reds who have impressed for the senior side this term, with Marcus Rashford being the one who has grabbed the headlines with seven goals in 13 games. Van Gaal reminded us of his track record of giving chances to budding players throughout his career.
"I have had that in all my clubs because I give youngsters the chance to do that," he insisted. "My first club was AZ Alkmaar and I was trainer-coach of the second team, I then played with five players from my second team when I was first-team coach.
"At Ajax I had Patrick Kluivert, at 18, who made the same performance as Marcus Rashford. So, I can give a lot of examples of that, it is not new! At Bayern Munich it was Thomas Muller and in Barcelona Xavi was 18 and Iniesta 17. Motta was also 17 and he is now at Paris Saint Germain. It is not strange.
"The big issue is not age. It is quality."
FOSU-MENSAH COULD FOLLOW SCHWEINSTEIGER
Louis van Gaal has yet to determine the best position for Tim Fosu-Mensah and admits the Manchester United youngster could emulate Bastian Schweinsteiger's switch at Bayern Munich.
United fans who have followed the Dutch defender's rise through the ranks will have seen him excel in the centre-back, full-back and central midfield positions during spells for the Under-18s, Under-21s and most recently the first team.
When asked during Thursday's press conference whether Fosu-Mensah's future could be in midfield, the manager said the options are still open for the 18-year-old and recalled how he nurtured and converted a young Schweinsteiger when he was Bayern boss.
"It is dependable on vacancies in your squad," declared van Gaal. "You have seen that players in my squad are playing in different positions than what they are used to in their former careers. It is also a little bit of luck. When there is a vacancy and you think a young player has the quality to play there, you give him the chance. If he takes the chance then that makes him already mentally a good player.
"You cannot say that a player is [just] a full-back. You can see qualities and you make a profile of positions and then you look at the qualities of a player and see if he can fit that. Can he do that, can he perform that? Maybe he shall perform it and then he sticks to that position and then he is the best of all.
"You can ask Bastian Schweinsteiger who, at Bayern Munich, played on the right side, the right wing. I made him a centre midfielder because I looked at his profile and I thought that he can better play in the middle and he enjoys it more than on the right side. I have changed a lot of positions of players."
Fosu-Mensah is just one of a number of young Reds who have impressed for the senior side this term, with Marcus Rashford being the one who has grabbed the headlines with seven goals in 13 games. Van Gaal reminded us of his track record of giving chances to budding players throughout his career.
"I have had that in all my clubs because I give youngsters the chance to do that," he insisted. "My first club was AZ Alkmaar and I was trainer-coach of the second team, I then played with five players from my second team when I was first-team coach.
"At Ajax I had Patrick Kluivert, at 18, who made the same performance as Marcus Rashford. So, I can give a lot of examples of that, it is not new! At Bayern Munich it was Thomas Muller and in Barcelona Xavi was 18 and Iniesta 17. Motta was also 17 and he is now at Paris Saint Germain. It is not strange.
"The big issue is not age. It is quality."
I really wish someone would teach LVG the meaning of 'dependable.'
Comparisons to Jones and Smalling's constant positional shifting don't quite stack up IMO. The thing about Jones and Smalling playing at full back (and in midfield in Jones' case) was that they were mostly unconvincing and uncomfortable there. I'm sure getting games benefited their development, but we were eager to see them get a run of games in their best positions.
For TFM, he's played RB, CB and LB for the first team, and almost everywhere on the pitch for the U18s and U21s, and he's not looked remotely unconvincing. He's looked a natural everywhere. Smalling and Jones were nailed on centre backs who just needed some games. Fosu-Mensah looks like a player who doesn't have a nailed down position and it is still wide open to consideration.
Based on what we have seen, I don't think he will be a jack of all trades, but a very good footballer who can comfortably and convincingly play in a few positions. I'm all for him to get more games where possible, though I would love to see what he can do in the centre of midfield with a bit of freedom to take the ball forward and support the attack. A solid box to box midfielder who can deputise along the back four would be a great option to have long term.
For TFM, he's played RB, CB and LB for the first team, and almost everywhere on the pitch for the U18s and U21s, and he's not looked remotely unconvincing. He's looked a natural everywhere. Smalling and Jones were nailed on centre backs who just needed some games. Fosu-Mensah looks like a player who doesn't have a nailed down position and it is still wide open to consideration.
Based on what we have seen, I don't think he will be a jack of all trades, but a very good footballer who can comfortably and convincingly play in a few positions. I'm all for him to get more games where possible, though I would love to see what he can do in the centre of midfield with a bit of freedom to take the ball forward and support the attack. A solid box to box midfielder who can deputise along the back four would be a great option to have long term.
No where in the article does he say that Tofu can follow Schweinsteiger and become a midfielder.
What does it say about Fosu?
Yeah Im also in favour of young players getting a bit of an education in different positions to varying degrees - I think how useful it is and how much you should do it depends on the player and there is no one-size-fits-all approach. Some players are really tailor made for a specific position and moving them around is only going to knock their confidence or distract them, but for a player like TFM it is clearly going to be beneficial because he is up to it.
In answer to:
Similarly with TFM. Maybe his versatility will come to define him and he will be moved around a lot throughout his career but I dont think he will, players usually settle into a position in the end, especially ones as talented as this kid is. I will say finally, if he did end up playing that role, it would be a shame for him personally but it could be to our advantage as a club. Having someone that versatile, who can come in and not just do a job, but do a really good job, in a variety of positions, is very useful. But it probably does inhibit a player reaching his full potential and I am sure TFM will make a position his own by becoming indispensable there in due course.
In answer to:
I would say there is nothing to learn from the experience of Smalling and Jones. There is no evidence it has done either of them any harm. Any problems there have been with these two, and Jones in particular, are nothing to do with his versatility and our exploitation of that, and everything to do with his injury problems. If he had a "normal" body, and had been available for selection the amount that you would expect him to be, he would have had every chance of nailing down a particular position and becoming a great player for us there. Its all speculation whether he could have fulfilled the predictions SAF made about his ability, and whether he would have been a CB, a midfield destroyer or whatever - I expect he probably would have been a CB partner for Smalling. But there is no reason to suggest moving him around a lot damaged his chances. It is possible he would have become the new john O'Shea - truly a player without a positional home (while he was with us) but I dont think he would.
Similarly with TFM. Maybe his versatility will come to define him and he will be moved around a lot throughout his career but I dont think he will, players usually settle into a position in the end, especially ones as talented as this kid is. I will say finally, if he did end up playing that role, it would be a shame for him personally but it could be to our advantage as a club. Having someone that versatile, who can come in and not just do a job, but do a really good job, in a variety of positions, is very useful. But it probably does inhibit a player reaching his full potential and I am sure TFM will make a position his own by becoming indispensable there in due course.
I think if a player is putting in good performances in an "unnatural" position then that is only a good thing. A player struggling out of position isn't good for anybody, but I don't see any harm if the player does well. Many players are versatile and can handle multiple positions - Blind is a great example and he and Fosu-Mensah are both Ajax academy players. The problem with Jones and Smalling playing fullback was that they really lacked the technique and skill on the ball to be effective there, which isn't an issue with TFM. He's still only 18, there's plenty of time for him to get experience in different positions AND nail down a position too
Everton 1:2 Man Utd
First time I've seen him a bit nervy, hopefully has a solid 2nd half.
Definitely not the best half from him. He is so good at pipping in on interceptions though.
Aye, passing a bit ropey too. Onwards and upwards in the second half hopefully.
Down to nerves I guess.
Ye, he has looked a bit nervous and indecivsive with his passing. I'd like to see Valencia come on for him soon.
Rooney was shouting at him to calm down and be more composed on the ball towards the end of the half. Think he's gonna hear more of that on HT. Hopefully he starts the second and turns it around.
CALM DOWN YOU feckER!
Ironic.
Whether you think it was a penalty or not (and I personally think it was) that sort of rashness needs to be ironed out of him and fast.
Gotta feel for the lad. Hope he doesn't take the substitution to the heart too much.
Yeah, it does (and it was).
Wasn't a penalty, he got the ball first.
Wasn't a penalty, but it was the correct decision to take him off.
It was never a penalty.
He got the ball, after ploughing through the player. Penalty all day.
He's young so you can't be too harsh but going for a scissor tackle, especially in the box, is all kinds of brainless.
He's young so you can't be too harsh but going for a scissor tackle, especially in the box, is all kinds of brainless.
We won't see him anymore, that's how van Gaal works.
Thought it was a great tackle to be honest. Saw he wouldn't reach the ball at first, pulled his leg back and then stretched it just in time. Too risky to do it in the penalty box though, he didn't really have to go down there at all.
The penalty decision was correct. TFM made two attempts at a tackle. The second one was fine, but the first one he took out Barkley's standing foot.
As usual with those threads, he was getting too much reactionary stick in the match day thread.
Not his best game, but hardly a shocker. Looked more nervous to be there in a cup semi to me, the experience will do him the world of good.
Not his best game, but hardly a shocker. Looked more nervous to be there in a cup semi to me, the experience will do him the world of good.
Looked a bit nervous on his debut as well. I remember worrying he would get a second yellow in the first half as he was flying into challenges.
Clear penalty as well. He got the ball with the second challenge, but the initial contact took him right through Barkley and that's what allowed him to get the ball after.
He didn't 'take out' his foot at all. Barkley starts flopping after the second tackle.
I can see why people will call that a pen, but in my opinion if that is a lot of tackles in the box will be, in fact most of them.
He didn't touch Barkley with his first challenge (which he pulled out from, anyway). The only contact comes from the trailing leg, which was nowhere near enough to constitute a penalty.
Im guessing dropped for ever.
And I think the first touch is minimal at best and it's only the tackle that get's the ball that takes him down. I just don't think that should be a pen.
He look nervous, but I think that the penalty was very very harsh.
It wasn't a penalty.
It was the second leg that caught the player. Perhaps excessive force but he was already tackling from the ground at that stage, it wasn't as if he came though at pace with studs showing. That was the third phase of the tackle. He misses initially and then wins the ball, and then the actual contact with the player happens.
Harsh.
Apart from that and one silly mistimed through ball that Rooney dogged him for, he did alright overall. He'll benefit from the experience.
It was the second leg that caught the player. Perhaps excessive force but he was already tackling from the ground at that stage, it wasn't as if he came though at pace with studs showing. That was the third phase of the tackle. He misses initially and then wins the ball, and then the actual contact with the player happens.
Harsh.
Apart from that and one silly mistimed through ball that Rooney dogged him for, he did alright overall. He'll benefit from the experience.
There is minimal contact on the first challenge, definitely not a foul and the second challenge he gets the ball first. The only thing you can call there is dangerous play for the somewhat scissors action. If that is what is being called though, then he must be booked.
Looked very nervous today. He'll learn. Awful game overall tbh.
Was to rash when he gave the penalty away, but other than that I thought he played well. I really like watching him carry the ball out of defence, just looks so strong and comfortable when he does it.
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