It’s unreal. I need a break from this place, can’t believe people are legitimately saying “title’s gone” after one draw in week 2And I'm surprised at how many people wrote off United's chances after the Soton game... A slow start is not that uncommon especially when bedding in new players
Title race/top 4 race
- Thread starter Andycoleno9
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It's because people have seen too much evidence of Ole not being willing to change things in these kind of games
So presume the penny will drop with our midfield situation in this next week then, otherwise no chance at all
Midfield is our weakest area and I hope we can bring one in before the window ends but with the squad we have now I still expect a title challenge. Also, we have a £40M midfielder sitting on the bench that Ole needs to figure out how to use.
Money that should have been spent on a DM LAST summer but Ole ended up buying someone he didn't know where to play
Top 4
For the title, utd don’t have the striker for reaching 90/95 pts
With Cavani and Martial you don’t have enough goals
For the title, utd don’t have the striker for reaching 90/95 pts
With Cavani and Martial you don’t have enough goals
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Has he lost the plot completely?
I'm sticking with the same prediction as before the season started:
1. Liverpool
2. City/Chelsea
3. Chelsea/City
4. United
The only thing that's changed at this ridiculously early stage is I'm now leaning more to Chelsea taking second than City - I was thinking that Chelsea were more likely to have a meltdown at some stage, but they look so solid together as a group that I don't know about that.
My view basically is:
1. Liverpool:
-Best active manager in the world who continues to refuse to feck-off
-Absurdly clinical attackers
-Rest of the team works to make them almost impossible to score against
-Not the deepest squad, but phenomenal team spirit seems to raise whomever they throw onto the pitch.
-Zero ambition in the domestic cups keeps them focused on the league and Champions League.
-Ridiculously supportive media means basically very little outside pressure on them
-Seem not to be talked about as contenders as much as City or Chelsea, or even United
-Had their "off" year last year, seem ready to start a new cycle this year
-ACON should affect them but I expect they will come through that.
2. Chelsea:
-Very strong first XI
-Amazing squad that has little obvious weakness
-Strong academy options if they decide to use them
-On a high after last season
-Top manager still enjoying the "bounce", but history of falling-out with clubs
-History of teams revolting against the manager, but no signs so far
-Have in the past gone in strong for the lesser cups; I expect deep runs from them in both domestic cups.
3. City:
-Comfortably the best team last season but lost their biggest game of the season
-Not sure they've improved since then, very obvious missing piece in their starting XI
-Top manager obviously, but prone to doing odd things; spent a lot longer in the job than previously; liable to "burn-out"
-Won so much as a team over the years, not sure how driven the current squad are to keep that going
-Best player increasingly injury-prone
-Always go all out in domestic cups to the point that the league cup basically doesn't matter any more so plenty of extra games and distractions throughout the season
-Not sure how much their big signing (as things stands) actually adds to them, despite his obvious quality.
4. United:
-Squad and first XI improved since last season, but not sure if it's enough despite being a good window overall
-Very good on paper, questions over our ability to get over the line
-Last season proved the reliance on Maguire which is worrying though fortunately he has a decent injury record; hopefully Varane lessens that reliance
-Prone to being repeatedly punished for stupid mistakes e.g. in defence
-Wasteful in front of goal
-Still the biggest game of the season for all other teams, not sure we have the intensity in this team to overcome that every time we play a league match - the lack of intensity in the last 10 minutes against Southampton really worried me
-Reliable supply of academy talent meaning someone new and exciting could always emerge
-The need for any trophy at all at this point means we have to take the domestic cups (or Europa League if that happens) seriously
-The media's favourite target club. Pogba and his agent likely to be constant questions for the club to face throughout the season until he leaves next summer, any possible scandal involving a player will dominate the headlines for ages
-Crazy pressure to be the best regardless of where we are in the respect to our rivals
-I'm pro-Ole, but compared to the other three managers you have to admit there's still much to prove here.
I'm a little concerned about Spurs, but otherwise I think that's the top four at the end of the season.
1. Liverpool
2. City/Chelsea
3. Chelsea/City
4. United
The only thing that's changed at this ridiculously early stage is I'm now leaning more to Chelsea taking second than City - I was thinking that Chelsea were more likely to have a meltdown at some stage, but they look so solid together as a group that I don't know about that.
My view basically is:
1. Liverpool:
-Best active manager in the world who continues to refuse to feck-off
-Absurdly clinical attackers
-Rest of the team works to make them almost impossible to score against
-Not the deepest squad, but phenomenal team spirit seems to raise whomever they throw onto the pitch.
-Zero ambition in the domestic cups keeps them focused on the league and Champions League.
-Ridiculously supportive media means basically very little outside pressure on them
-Seem not to be talked about as contenders as much as City or Chelsea, or even United
-Had their "off" year last year, seem ready to start a new cycle this year
-ACON should affect them but I expect they will come through that.
2. Chelsea:
-Very strong first XI
-Amazing squad that has little obvious weakness
-Strong academy options if they decide to use them
-On a high after last season
-Top manager still enjoying the "bounce", but history of falling-out with clubs
-History of teams revolting against the manager, but no signs so far
-Have in the past gone in strong for the lesser cups; I expect deep runs from them in both domestic cups.
3. City:
-Comfortably the best team last season but lost their biggest game of the season
-Not sure they've improved since then, very obvious missing piece in their starting XI
-Top manager obviously, but prone to doing odd things; spent a lot longer in the job than previously; liable to "burn-out"
-Won so much as a team over the years, not sure how driven the current squad are to keep that going
-Best player increasingly injury-prone
-Always go all out in domestic cups to the point that the league cup basically doesn't matter any more so plenty of extra games and distractions throughout the season
-Not sure how much their big signing (as things stands) actually adds to them, despite his obvious quality.
4. United:
-Squad and first XI improved since last season, but not sure if it's enough despite being a good window overall
-Very good on paper, questions over our ability to get over the line
-Last season proved the reliance on Maguire which is worrying though fortunately he has a decent injury record; hopefully Varane lessens that reliance
-Prone to being repeatedly punished for stupid mistakes e.g. in defence
-Wasteful in front of goal
-Still the biggest game of the season for all other teams, not sure we have the intensity in this team to overcome that every time we play a league match - the lack of intensity in the last 10 minutes against Southampton really worried me
-Reliable supply of academy talent meaning someone new and exciting could always emerge
-The need for any trophy at all at this point means we have to take the domestic cups (or Europa League if that happens) seriously
-The media's favourite target club. Pogba and his agent likely to be constant questions for the club to face throughout the season until he leaves next summer, any possible scandal involving a player will dominate the headlines for ages
-Crazy pressure to be the best regardless of where we are in the respect to our rivals
-I'm pro-Ole, but compared to the other three managers you have to admit there's still much to prove here.
I'm a little concerned about Spurs, but otherwise I think that's the top four at the end of the season.
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If we finish 4th with no trophy I think that’s the end of Solksjear unless he magically helps us get Haaland.
A lot of people are writing off our chances. I think this United team has got a lot of goals in it. Don’t forget we still have Rashford, Cavani and Sancho to come.
I think if we sign a DM in the last week of the transfer window, we have a shot at a title charge.
If not, I can still see us in the top 2 behind Chelsea.
If City sign Kane, then we’ll probably finish 3rd. I think without a top class CF, City might struggle a bit.
I think if we sign a DM in the last week of the transfer window, we have a shot at a title charge.
If not, I can still see us in the top 2 behind Chelsea.
If City sign Kane, then we’ll probably finish 3rd. I think without a top class CF, City might struggle a bit.
Finishing 4th would still see him safe .…he’d have to kick Glazer in the goolies to put himself in danger.
Its not because of the draw though. Its a combination of 1) how poor the performance was esp after the equalizer 2) realization that Matic is almost definitely done, meaning we basically have 2 CM in McFred which is probably the bigger reason why I can't see a title challenge. I mean how can you challenge for the title when you have 2 functioning CM, even ignoring the fact that they themselves might not be good enough.
Title race. If we are fighting for top 4 race then Ole is not the right man and hurry up get Conte. Time will only tell, I think by end November, we could actually see it whether we are seriously on title race or top 4 race.
Ole and his United squad is enough, I believe they can challenge for the title.
Against Southampton that wasn't our best 11. People doesn't acknowledge that.
When Cavani, Varane and Sancho kicks on, we will see the improvement and we will comfortably up there with the rest.
Points yielded from the first 2 Ole's full season is on the rising trend, and I don't see why people are forgetting that.
EDIT:
and I'm fking tired of people wanting another signing, enough signings, we're well equipped going into the season.
Against Southampton that wasn't our best 11. People doesn't acknowledge that.
When Cavani, Varane and Sancho kicks on, we will see the improvement and we will comfortably up there with the rest.
Points yielded from the first 2 Ole's full season is on the rising trend, and I don't see why people are forgetting that.
EDIT:
and I'm fking tired of people wanting another signing, enough signings, we're well equipped going into the season.
I think we'll finish 3rd after Chelsea and City.
Because 'the fanbase' is not one person.
I don't think United can win the title with Solskjaer in charge. I agree with what Carragher said that Uniteds squad is good enough to win the title or to be very close. And a top manager would be getting us very close if not winning it.
We need a starting DM FFS blimey even someone as blind as Mr Magoo can see that
Yeah he clearly can be more objective on this one which means it's best for Gary for just keep quiet
I think Gary's comment is a bit tongue-in-cheek. He knows the Glazers have done well to bring in Verane and Sancho this season. I think he is trying to use the Glazers' delicate PR position to push for more signings.
Everyone, including Neville misinterpreted what Carragher was trying to say.
He said that IF Pep or Klopp (big name managers) at the helm, everyone will say United current squad will win the title. (It's an agenda thing towards Ole that he won't win it just because of his CV. Countering Neville's argument that United need another marquee signing to challenge.).
Carragher didn't say Ole isn't good enough.
I can't make a prediction on who will the PL but I am fairly sure it won't be United
How long are going to hammer on lack of Cv? If he was good enough he would already have a good CV. This is his third season.
Do we all agree that the last 2 season the squad isn't capable of winning trophies vs the other teams that has won it? (Except Sevila, that was shite)
The trajectory is similar to Klopp, that was what they were discussing about. Ole's growth is similar to Klopp.
What exactly do you mean by a 'couple of injuries'? We have Cavani, Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Bruno, James and Lingard. Pogba as well if he continues to play on the left. How many more players do you need?
I think we’re more in the top 4 race, if we want to be tittle challengers we need to cut out the drawing to teams we should be getting 6 points from, obviously it’s only the 2nd game and there’s a long long way to go, we will improve once we get a fully fit squad but we also need the likes of city, Liverpool and Chelsea to have off games but I can’t see them having to many because there a lot more consistent then we are.
He is on that Kane train and cant get off.
It is obviously too early but we have seen these types of performances too often and we just cant improve it seems
We’re in a top four race, we don’t have the manager or the midfield to win the league. Until we improve one or both of those areas it’s not going to be possible to get enough points to win the league.
Last season was the first time in 5 years that the winning team didn't get well over 90 points and we saw winners with 98, 99 and 100 points during that time. (And last season was weird because of covid). Realistically we can probably afford to drop no more than 10 points all season against mid and lower table opposition, home and away. So even from a simple points total perspective, dropping 2 so early, and against such a weak team, is pretty damaging.And I'm surprised at how many people wrote off United's chances after the Soton game
I don’t think it’s the simple fact that we’ve drawn a game that people are reacting to.
It’s the awful performance, strange team selection and inept game management (yet again) by the manager.
And let’s not forget, this was against Southampton. South-fecking-hampton who have just sold their best two players and will ultimately finish in the bottom half of the table.
We’ll finish 4th.
we're finishing second of first. top 4 will be tighter than a pin in a butt
Thought at the end of last season that this season we'll do well to finish 4th and not much has changed.
Chelsea
City
Liverpool
United
Perhaps a 3rd place is possible if Liverpool have some more injuries. City and Liverpool have shown before they can make light work of the PL. With the spending at Chelsea and top new manager they're surely to join them.
We have a fairly decent team but so far can't seem to make that step for a 90+ point total, we make a lot of games hard work. Landing in the 80 point range would be an improvement. The oil club spending and some of the best managers make it really difficult.
Chelsea
City
Liverpool
United
Perhaps a 3rd place is possible if Liverpool have some more injuries. City and Liverpool have shown before they can make light work of the PL. With the spending at Chelsea and top new manager they're surely to join them.
We have a fairly decent team but so far can't seem to make that step for a 90+ point total, we make a lot of games hard work. Landing in the 80 point range would be an improvement. The oil club spending and some of the best managers make it really difficult.
It's because there's a group of posters who already made their minds up long ago that Ole isn't up to it, and who's reinforced that belief by repeating it online and defending it against all comers for so long that they've long since gotten out of the habit of questioning themselves. When things go well they're silent, when they don't they're off the mark immediately, and against a diminishing crowd of opposition because there's only so long people can stomach engaging in pointless discussion with people who generally only see what their preconceptions tell them is there.
It's important of course to avoid falling into the opposite trap too. The way this team has been evolving over the past couple of seasons, it's frankly absurd to talk as if there's any sort of case for seeing the manager as inadequate, but also it is not yet at its end destination, and no one can take it for granted that OGS will get us there. I think it's annoying that it's really not possible to have a reasoned discussion about worries and shortcomings in games like Southampton (there were more than a few) because it's just drowned out by an incredible amount of hyperbole and nonsense that has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with people seizing on it to go "There! That's what I've been saying for a year now!".
But if we have 5-10 games where we play like that this season, we're not going to challenge for a title, that's for sure. We might get away with a handful, and sometimes we'll get the points anyway, but it's looking like it's going to be a really tight 4-team race and chances are at least one of the other three is going to deliver consistency.
What I found most worrying against Southampton vis-a-vis title-challenging credentials was the lack of urgency and ideas in the final 10-20 minutes, in such marked contrast to the dominant football they delivered for the first 20 minutes or so of the second half. It's like they shoot their bolt, and when it's shot it's shot, and they lapse into acceptance that this is how it's going to end up. It's hard to tell what's the reason for that, and fortunately there are also many examples of the opposite, but again that's the sort of thing they can't do more than very occasionally if they're going to have a chance.
And, expectations are different this year. Last season, it was still about continuing improvement, you accepted that there would be setbacks and games like this didn't worry me too much. But now, performances like this is a standard we can't afford to drop to more than very occasionally. It really brings across the magnitude of the challenge we're up against, and what it actually means to take the step from being a really promising team on a good development curve, to actually being a contender.
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Before the started started and also after the Leeds result, I never thought for one moment our team is capable of a serious title challenge. Still too many deficiencies in the squad (players and staff) for me
I can't see Liverpool winning the league. To be honest, they were arguably the second best team in the first half on Saturday against Burnley in terms of chances created. I could see them potentially finishing 2nd, but the AFCON could be a big blow to them.
I'd put it like this:
- Liverpool has a first XI as good as City's, and better than United's and Chelsea's, but the weakest squad depth among the 4
- Chelsea has as good squad depth as City, but the weakest first XI among the 4
- City is as good as or better than the rest both for depth and first XI
- We have a better first XI than Chelsea and better depth than Liverpool, but we don't match City on either point
Prediction: It's close enough to leave all possible combinations plausible. But I reckon City is a little bit ahead of the other 3.
- Liverpool has a first XI as good as City's, and better than United's and Chelsea's, but the weakest squad depth among the 4
- Chelsea has as good squad depth as City, but the weakest first XI among the 4
- City is as good as or better than the rest both for depth and first XI
- We have a better first XI than Chelsea and better depth than Liverpool, but we don't match City on either point
Prediction: It's close enough to leave all possible combinations plausible. But I reckon City is a little bit ahead of the other 3.
Actually that is false. At the moment we have a couple of injuries / absentees. Cavani is not available and Rashford is injured = 2 players not available
We started with Pogba, Martial, Greenwood with Sancho to come on, so your statement is wrong.
Liverpool, if they have Salah and Jota injured who starts?
If he didnt say Ole wasn't good enough then why did he say that United will be the biggest underachievers this season by finishing 4th.i think its obvious he's saying if United are not challenging for the title its down to the manager