To those against Mourinho...

Nou_Camp99

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I'd have huge respect for him if he walked away from the job but we all know that's not going to happen. He's not going to walk away from a £12m pay off is he?

All he was bothered about last night was defending his own record. He doesn't care on jot about this club. The 3 times reference to his chelsea titles means what to us? Nothing. Sack him.

Jog on Jose. You're finished.
 

reddaz71

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Genuinely feel sorry for ANY manager we take on who will have the misfortune of having Ed Woodward muddying the transfer waters,he my friends has been a monumental liability in all things relating to transfers, utterly and completely out of his depth!
 

Vidyoyo

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My main reason for wanting to see Mourinho leave is that it doesn't appear he has any long term aims. It's easy to be suspicious of where the club is headed after Moyes and LvG's tenure and I'm not convinced Mou is willing or looking to build a squad for the future. When you break it down, that's what the other teams that we'recompeting with have been doing over the past few years (including City building their entire background staff for Pep). They've reaped the rewards for it.

However, I'm not sure who's to blame for it. I don't suspect it's only Mourinho; the club seems quite short-termist all round right now.

I personally like Mourinho's personality and feels he's a good coach, but maybe not the one we need right now. He was brought in for instant success and hasn't delivered.
 

RedRover

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He hasn't been backed though.

He walked into a team with full backs over 30, literally no midfield outside of Herrera and no established striker. And that's BEFORE we get to centre backs.

Obviously he needs more than 300m in today's market to fix it. Lukaku alone was 90m and that's normal money for a proven 25 goal a season striker. Point is, he had to rebuild over seasons and this summer he wanted to address the CB situation further. Yes he messed up with Lindelof im not denying that. But no manager has got it right every time on targets and that's partly why he wanted lesser risk transfers in Toby Alderwierald. He didn't get it though. He didn't get a right winger either. He probably has other holes he needs fixing but Ed wouldn't do the.business.

Yes the side he has now should put Brighton away and not get trounced by Spurs, but don't expect us to be on Citys level with the squads compared.
Where did I say that I do?

Even if you accept he needs more money, how does that affect his inability to get performances from the player he has? He's had a full midfield in Matic, Pogba and Fred. A Forward in Lukaku. A game changing wide player in Sanchez. Are the players at fault for their failure to perform? Has he got his recruitment wrong?

A centre-back was required in my view to shore up the defence. That doesn't account for the failure to see any coherent attacking play or even a settled system or team selections. As above, by year three in my opinion a manager of his quality should have imprinted on the squad an identity and a style of play. Other managers are doing so at other clubs with less money. That hasn't happened, and that's my major gripe.
 

Canagel

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With this approach we have to at least win the PL or CL. Otherwise what's the point? We hired Mourinho to win things in the short term and still we are waiting for a title challenge despite the outlay on new players. Just s title challenge and not even winning the PL. And let's be honest neither are happening (in fact even top 4 will be a struggle so it seems like we are exactly where we were when he came) where's the progress lol? What are we good at after spending all this money? The least we should've expected by now is a clear identity and philosophy in place. If the players don't suit it there's been plenty of time and money to rectify that. No more excuses left. it's better to part ways right now whilst we still have a chance to build for next season and let a new manager assess these players to be ready for new season next year.
 
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izec

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Point of no return. We can give him another 3 years and i doubt we would win anything significant, it is only downhill from here and a top 4 fight at best. My opinion stands since the Sevilla tie and i wont back out of it. It is not that nothing can convince me, but Jose isnt the right man and not world class anymore. His methods dont work either. Unless he makes a 180 turn in every aspect, he will fail. He is as good as beaten and the Jose fans know it
 

RedRonaldo

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I don’t expect us playing at City level, but at least try to match Liverpool and Spur, we’ve spent much more than them for feck sake.
 

Shaun88

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For him to be here any longer than the end of this season he needs to get us playing positive football and at least give us, the players and just as importantly himself the belief that we are capable of challenging in the near future. There doesn't appear to be any confidence within the players, the fan's are losing hope and jose himself has said we are going to struggle this season. Results and performances can change the tide but its looking increasingly unlikely
 

breakout67

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There is no convincing me because it has nothing to do with an opinion at the moment. Jose Mourinho is a 3-4 year manager, just like the vast majority of managers.

He has done exactly what one can reasonably expect. Won trophies, improved the team in his 2nd season, fought with so many different people that they get tired of him in his 3rd season.

Makelele did an interview about his time at Chelsea. He said that Mourinho treats you like his family to gain your trust to make you more open to criticism and be willing to try harder for him. Then he pushes your buttons to get a response you. Eventually some players get tired of being poked and prodded which leads to a broken relationship.

It has nothing to do with him being a bad manager. A bad manager wouldnt have lasted this long. We beat all of the top 6 in the 2nd half of 17/18. I can quite confidently say we would have challenged the title in most other seasons because we basically stopped trying in the league because City had won the title and we were comfortable in the top 4.
 

VeevaVee

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Honestly, if we go into games like we did the Spurs game, home and away, against most sides. There's no excuse for not going for it when you're Manchester United. Particularly when smaller teams are bringing a game to bigger ones. Too often we go out with seemingly no real approach and seek to drop the intensity down as much as possible then hope for the best with a sneaky goal or two.
It might not always work, and I was fuming we fecked it up so much last night but it's monumentally more interesting than scraping a win with nothing football, and I doubt we'd get punished like that on most occasions.

I'd still be on edge waiting for the day he returns to poor football and we'd still need a good summer. IMO this is all too much to do now. Possible, but unlikely. And that result might have scared Jose away from trying to play football for life.
 
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Jackxxx

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Top 2 in PL, semi final in CL, 20+ wins with 2+ goals scored. And he will deserve my green light for next season.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Are you serious? If he won the league and Champions League I wouldn't give a toss what type of football he played.
That’s you tho, my connection to the club isn’t just based on winning things, it’s a side bonus for me. I would take no joy in playing like we did against Liverpool and Middlesbrough for the duration of the competitions and winning the champions league or league.

So without a reinvention of everything that is Jose for me there is no comeback, I’m passed caring about him at this point and am just waiting till he leaves so we can get back to buisness. This doesn’t mean I want him sacked this second but at the end of the year I think he should walk.
 

Bestietom

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Just allow the players the chance to express themselves instead of wanting 10 behind the ball all the time.
 

charlenefan

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I (obviously naively) honestly thought he'd get sympathy from even those who wanted him out after the shit show the board produced during the transfer window

We were well short last season, how anyone thought he'd be able to do any better this season shows the type of people you're dealing with when addressing a large amount of the Mourinho out brigade
 

SirAF

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Excuse me, but you're definitely not his biggest supporter. To strengthen your argument and appply maximum damage, it's always a good idea to say that you've changed your mind and it's this or that now.
I think e.g. @SirAF would fit the bill much better, if i were looking for a Mourinho fan around here.

Mourinho has been under pressure for most of his career. To suggest he can't deal with it properly is something i don't get. The result yesterday was very bad, of course he was angry and let it out in the presser, nothing wrong with that.

We had two bad results, but the style of play has improved massively since the first defeat. I think overall all the ingredients are there to have a good season and finish within the top 4.

Calling for a manager's head after we're three games in, is out of order. Letting the no.2 take over, who's also responsible doesn't seem to be a good idea, does it? !
We'll continue working hard and trying to get as many points as we can under our belt. When the winter comes, we'll have a much better perspective of what's up with the team.
:devil:
 

Bestietom

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Mourinho changed the whole backline except for Shaw. He brought in Jones who was not fit and Herrera who never played there before. Is he just trying to prove something to Woodward and the board about needing CB's this summer.

If so he is not doing the team or club any favours and is just losing more fans. He surely must know after 2 years what his best 11 are, but he just continues to change his system and players every game. This will not win us games and if it continues we cannot expect to improve.
 

Stacks

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Well he's spent 200 odd million less than City so expecting a title challenge to them is a bit harsh given he was barely given money to bridge the gap this summer.
True. No one should challenge. We should be able to secure a place above Spuds, Chelsea
, Arsenal and compete with Pool though. Having invested 400mill.into the team, I would expect to see some huge development. Our attack is still meh, defence is terrible and midfield does not boss. Better expenditure is required or a tactical system that gets them ticking. So far we have neither
 

Red Primus

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Anybody so vociferously against him needs to watch his full post match press conference. Not the little snippets you want to drive your narrative.

He’s backing his players, backing the fans and clearly motivated to get it right. He’s passionate it’s not just lip service. As of now, that’s all we can ask for and he should get a chance to turn it round.

Watch it and see him try deal with an arrogant, scum media who lick the arse of rival managers however much they fail. It’s naive to think the venom they’ve been dripping around united for years hasn’t taken its toll on the club and atmosphere. For now, I,m happy to back him and hope more than anything he can get it right
Cheers. That's great way to look at this. Context is important. This is clearly not a black and white situation. Football has slowly become agenda driven and is filled with impatience and desire for instant gratification.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Well he's spent 200 odd million less than City so expecting a title challenge to them is a bit harsh given he was barely given money to bridge the gap this summer.
No excuse for losing to Brighton and scraping a win against Leicester.

The way we play football reeks of mistakes in tactics. Be it defence, midfield or attack, we play as 11 individuals and not as a team and I blame that on the manager fully.
 

Stactix

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I don't see Utd improving or getting similar results to the first and second season. The problem here, is that it isn't just the defence is it? After 3 games. ONE player out of the 20 that have started, can come out with their heads held high. That is Luke Shaw. DeGea, Fred & Matic can be excused for various reasons.
No players to come back and transform the team because everyone that you'd expect to start has played so far this season.

The players you'd expect to shine for Utd, Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez have been pretty diabolical this season. I don't see how signing a defender or two, will suddenly change our entire playstyle and they'll thrive? Really?
Don't get me wrong, this Utd side is crying for a leader at the back but you could sign the Athletico Madrid back line, would that get the front line playing? I don't think so.

Plenty of ways to score goals, not all require exposing the defence, this UTD side can't do any of them well despite the obvious quality on paper.
Whether that's gungho attackattack, consistent pressure, or counterattacking. This side is pure SHITE at every single one
New defenders will not change that, the Midfield still has issues.. and the attacking line haven't put in a good performance so far this season and they've been inconsistent or complete garbage since January.

When things go to shite, Mourinhos style of football is the one you're least likely to stick with. You could see as early as the first Derby in season 1 (where I remind you that City were away at Utd and completely dominated most of the first half) that Pep's style was starting to take hold. The problem here, is out of all of Mourinhos signings which one can you say has been worth it? Matic, that's it and even he was inconsistent and frustrating at times last season.
What is the Style?
The formation?
The first 11?
You can't tell me any of them because it's virtually impossible to know what sort of set up we'll go with in the next game. There is no Long term solution, under Mourinho regardless of players we get, Pragmatic football is all we're getting. That's acceptable if this side is challenging for the biggest and best trophies. Problem? This side has not once challenged for any of said trophies. So when the football isn't entertaining but we're also not getting the results.. What's the point in sticking with the guy that will certainly not change?


He lost me after the Sevilla game, baring in mind that was the same cowardly style as the 10men PSG at home. That was in the title winning season, that Chelsea was playing much better, could grind out results and play better football than this Utd side have under Mourinho.

Sure, you can argue we need new signings but seeing as so many that back Mourinho seem to bring up his 2nd place victory, let me remind you all. Spurs finished below Utd and signed "no one" and whacked Utd 3-0 away, one of there biggest bogey matches. Also baring in mind that Pochs record against the top 6 is pretty poor.

Spurs deserved the win, if Lukaku had scored? could of been a different game? Possibly. Although if Utd had gone in at 1-0 at HT, they'd of sat back second half. Certain.


/Mindless rant sorry.
To answer the question.
To win me back over, progressive football or a significant improvement in counter attack football. Top 4 in the league, with a win in FA/League cup .
Semi Finals min in CL.
The main thing here, is that it needs to be decent football with a style that you can recognise. What is the point of continuing with Mourinho if neither the football nor the results are good enough?

Last thing - Chelsea won the league before their meltdown. So surely, Utd are more likely to have a meltdown right?
 
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breakout67

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I (obviously naively) honestly thought he'd get sympathy from even those who wanted him out after the shit show the board produced during the transfer window

We were well short last season, how anyone thought he'd be able to do any better this season shows the type of people you're dealing with when addressing a large amount of the Mourinho out brigade
If you don't have sympathy for him based on what the players have done then you won't have it for him period.

I felt quite sorry for him yesterday because it felt like a hopeless cause despite a good setup. It reminded me of the 4-0 loss at the bridge where Blind having a complete brainfart followed by Chelsea scoring from every half chance led to a very bad scoreline.

We were convincingly better than Spurs in the first half and had nothing to show for it, then Kane scored a near impossible header, Lukaku missed a good chance and Moura scored minutes later.

Bailly was also a shambles against Brighton and single handedly cost us the game, I watched him several times at Villareal and he was a wild defender but not a blinded idiot like he was against Brighton.
 

AgentP

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Play proper attacking football. Entertain the fans. Get above 80 points. Semis of FA Cup and quarters of CL. If he wants to play ultra defensive, then he has to deliver trophies. You can't both win nothing and torture the fans with boring football.
 

Lentwood

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I disagree. Pogba was a world record transfer. Lukaku was a fortune. Sanchez is (apparently) the highest paid player in the country. The Neymar transfer changed the game, fees rocketed and most of Jose business has been done before that. He's certainly invested more than the vast majority of other managers in the PL and around Europe.
How many players do you think we needed when Jose took over from LvG?
 

Nr.7

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I just started answering the threads question and realized that the list of improvements Jose had to make in order to get my backing is not only long but considering his past record, is probably impossible to expect form him.

I just don’t see improving under Jose.
 

mancan92

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If you don't have sympathy for him based on what the players have done then you won't have it for him period.

I felt quite sorry for him yesterday because it felt like a hopeless cause despite a good setup. It reminded me of the 4-0 loss at the bridge where Blind having a complete brainfart followed by Chelsea scoring from every half chance led to a very bad scoreline.

We were convincingly better than Spurs in the first half and had nothing to show for it, then Kane scored a near impossible header, Lukaku missed a good chance and Moura scored minutes later.

Bailly was also a shambles against Brighton and single handedly cost us the game, I watched him several times at Villareal and he was a wild defender but not a blinded idiot like he was against Brighton.
Its his problem to fix. If he didn't kill the confidence and motivation of martial or Rashford and had a plan b that works for more technical players he wouldn't need to hope and pray for lukaku he could look to other sources. That's all clearly his fault so I have no sympathy. He has players who can score but fails to take advantage of them or change the system to suit them.
 

steffyr2

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Personally think we are 3 games in and the title challenge is over all ready, for him to win me over, hes got to come out and stop being so negative, work on a attacking/pressing system, get the players back on board, needs pick a team and give them a chance. have more then one idea if losing to punt the ball to fellaini. and drop lukkau. 3 big sitters hes missed in 3 games. with the system last night I reckon a sanchez up top or Rashord would have been a lot better option.

overall I don't see him sticking to his guns from last night, I see him going more negative again and be sacked by xmas.
Just to confirm, to win you over he just has to change the optics, but you don't care if we win or get relegated.
 

bosnian_red

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I (obviously naively) honestly thought he'd get sympathy from even those who wanted him out after the shit show the board produced during the transfer window

We were well short last season, how anyone thought he'd be able to do any better this season shows the type of people you're dealing with when addressing a large amount of the Mourinho out brigade
Sorry for having higher expectations for United than grinding out a win against Leicester or being thoroughly outplayed by Brighton, and with those 2 performances being fully expected and not a surprise in the slightest. We just look horrendously coached every single game, a shambles in every department. Yes there are other issues at the club, but Mourinhos failure to implement any sort of footballing style and how poorly we look in every aspect is #1. We literally look a much better team a year ago. It's not a good sign for a manager when the team keeps on declining for no reason. It's usually down to him in that case.
 

NoLogo

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Better football and consistent results. I want to see a team out there that fights, partly happened against Tottenham even though the result was shit but it's not enough for a dozen games per season. I want to see a team coming out that is burning with desire to win every game. No hiding against small teams anymore, fast transitions and commit players forward to overload those who tend to defend with all 11 players against us. Be dominant in those games and don't try to outstoke Stoke, not even away from home.

If I can see a team playing again that doesn't bore me to death anymore and doesn't look like they are thinking about their next instagram pose instead of beating BHA I would already be happy but the current state of the team is infuriating and if he can't change that in two seasons, lack of signings or not, he is the wrong man for the job.
 

Devils11

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Seriously it time to let him go. Look at the football been played , what is his vision of football ? How is he going to attack? Is he trying to pass around until opponent mistake happen? Or cross from the flanks for his Big Striker to attack? i can see no pace in his attack. i see no fight in his team. 2-0 down everyone know its give up.
Just the other day watch Eddie Howe Bournemouth vs Everton , the difference is day and night. Fast breaking attacking football throwing bodies forward , Callum Wilson a small name player such a threat , run the whole game. Dont need a big name coach or big name player, just any coach like Eddie Howe that will play attacking football without fear of losing.
 

Rash Decision

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Show that he can get his expensive squad to play as a team, even if he wins nothing. This means getting the players to attack and defend as a team, not merely getting the entire team behind the ball. That would be the first step to convincing me that he deserves more time and more investment.

Edit: and preferably not losing every game while doing it.
 

lysglimt

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.. What would it take this season for him to win back your support? Just curious because it appears he's turned quite a few fans on the caf against him.

We are 3 games in and made a terrible start but is there anything he can do to make you think "no, actually he's the right man"?

Is it just the performance? Or is it the results alone?

If he got great results to keep us towards the top 3 mix by X-mas but inconsistent performances, should he still go? Or does he need great performances and results throughout the season and challenge for the title to the very end?

Is it silverware? What if he has a so so top 4 season but gets to the semis of CL and wins an FA Cup?

Or, is it too late? Is there nothing he can do to get everyone behind him again?

This thread isn't made for another civil war of those for mourinho fighting those against. I just want to know how far people are against him.

It's never too late - if we destroy Burnley after playing good football, of course he buys himself time. But my problem with Mourinho is this:

1) He throws people under the bus in public. It's not good man-management in any situation

2) He alienates players - we will never do well if players like Martial and Pogba don't perform. That is one issue he needs to sort out

3) There is no plan for our defense - play a 3-5-2, play a 3-4-3, play a 4-4-2 - but decide on something. How can you expect stability if you play new players and new systems every week ?

4) There is no plan for our attack either - are we playing on the counter, are we playing possession - all other teams have a system they prefer and master - we don't

5) We play boring football - yes the first half against Spurs was progress - and if we played like that in every game we wouldn't be in this situation...but we dont


So for me it's mostly the performances. The results matter a lot - of course....but I would be willing to take a couple of bad results if I saw progress in the way we play. But the way we played football last season, was awful - and I don't believe we will ever win the league playing that way simply because we wont get the best out of our players.

So no until he is fired - it's not too late. The problem is that I don't believe in Mourinhos team - and I dont think he can turn it around. And what I feel now isn't even anger - it's apathy - which is even worse.
 

gerdm07

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Give us hope that we will improve, play good football and get results. I have not had that sort of hope for the past 5 years except for fleeting moments here and there.
 

Minimalist

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I don’t think he’s a good fit at all regardless of results. The football even when we win is pretty functional and uninspiring. I wanted him to come in after Van Gaal and I was wrong about that. I just assumed he was a winner and that all the shite that comes with him would be easy to ignore.

If he won the league playing this shite I’d be baffled by it.

So at this stage, I don’t think there’s much he can do to win me over. Sevilla game last season was me 80% of the way there anyway. Getting top four playing like this? Still want a change.
 

MancFanFromManc

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I'm sticking by him. I was there last night and whilst there was a mass exodus when the 3rd goal went in, people were still chanting, and those that remained applauded the players off. Those of us of a certain age remember life before Fergie when winning wasn't a god given right. Mourinho is having a mare, but he's a clever bloke with bags of experience and the character to stick at it. I have my limits, but I'm not quitting on him after only 2 defeats
 

Sky1981

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With our current predicament. No manager can come and deliver instantly. Something is rotten with this squad.

The whole back 4 plus 1 is non functional. Probably there's a good reason why lvg and Mourinho persist with defensive formation. It doesnt take much to slice us open
 

Fosu-Mens

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.. What would it take this season for him to win back your support? Just curious because it appears he's turned quite a few fans on the caf against him.

We are 3 games in and made a terrible start but is there anything he can do to make you think "no, actually he's the right man"?

Is it just the performance? Or is it the results alone?

If he got great results to keep us towards the top 3 mix by X-mas but inconsistent performances, should he still go? Or does he need great performances and results throughout the season and challenge for the title to the very end?

Is it silverware? What if he has a so so top 4 season but gets to the semis of CL and wins an FA Cup?

Or, is it too late? Is there nothing he can do to get everyone behind him again?

This thread isn't made for another civil war of those for mourinho fighting those against. I just want to know how far people are against him.
I am more positive towards Mourinho after the game, than before. Statistically we should have won that game. Most chances, shots etc. Individual errors in both ends cost us the win. If we have those numbers(stats) after each game this season we will challenge for the title, unlikely as it is.

My issues with Mourinho are these(and why he will never be a long term manager for this club):
  1. Lack of player developement/improvement in the squad over the last two years. Meaning that only way for this club to improve under Mourinho is through transfers. Costly and not sustainable even with the revenue of this corporation.
  2. Playing pragmatic (in my eyes outdated) football. If this is due to the weakness in defence, then signing defenders should have been his priority from day 1.
  3. Bashing some players publicy in the media.
Biggest issue is by far nr.1 and combining this with a club run for profits is a mismatch. I accepted Mourinho as the new manager because i though he would get rid of 60% of the squad(meaning all the deadwood on high salaries), but this has not happened. Taking a holistic view on this issue we can be fairly certain that some of the players have been told by JM that they can leave, but refuses due to their high salaries and Woody not willing to sell with a loss. Having players on the training ground for a long time that you don't want at the club etc is not good for the squad/environment within the club.

Why i want to keep Mourinho:
  1. Because he puts pressure on Woodward/Glazers and may cause changes in the way this club is governed/fans may start protesting against Glazers again.
  2. Replacing Mourinho with another manager is only a short time fix and will not do anything with the fundamental problems/issues at this corporation. And the same thing that happened with LVG and now JM will happen again.
  3. He does not like the vultures in the press.
If the club was more transparent in how they operate/make decisions from top to bottom i predict more people would understand and symphatize with Mourinho. And replacing Mourinho will only affect the short term perspective of this club, while the fundamental issues that affect the long term will not be fixed.
 

RedRover

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Mar 19, 2007
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How many players do you think we needed when Jose took over from LvG?
A fair few first team players. At least one centre-back, two in midfield, one out wide and a forward. I still think we potentially need full backs although Valencia and Young have done alright.

A point to remember here is that as poor as we are at the back currently, the manager has bought two centre-backs, neither of which he seems to think fits the bill. I've said that in other threads and some people just keep suggesting that because of what they cost, they shouldn't be expected to be good enough, which I just don't understand. If they weren't good enough to be starters then when we already had Jones, Smalling and Rojo - why bother bringing them in? Why not invest that money on one quality player?

Overall my big issue here, as I've said above is that despite the new players (some of which are capable of producing so much more) we don't look any better on a consistent basis than we did under Van Gaal. Yes, Mourinho has had better results - fair play to him, but in my view that's not enough to put up with the terrible football and most importantly the fact that the team lacks cohesion and direction, and currently it looks like the wheels are about to come off.

Maybe it'll all just click into place, but I doubt it. The club won't sack him before the end of the season unless things go disastrously wrong but he could walk if its not working out.