Too good to go down

youmeletsfly

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I’d like us to get relegated for a change easiest way we can bin off all our players and backroom staff and start from scratch, have a proper rebuild of the club.
You'll.need to buy the club because nobody will invest a dime more in it if we were to go down; but I see your half sarcastic post :D
 

Strachans Cigar

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I actually had a dream the other night that we beat someone or other in a must win game to avoid relegation in the last game of the season at home.

We won, and Mourinho had dressed in a cream David Pleat suit just for the occasion and proceeded to celebrate just like David Pleat did all those years ago by running on the pitch going crazy.

The Caf all called him a cnut for it. MOTWYW.
 

Tribec

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It was interesting hear Paddy being interviewed on this, having heard him do his after dinner speeches where he tells tales of basically spying on the Doc for Busby, you could see he was rather more reserved here. Mind a couple of times you could sense his true feelings towards him.

I share the sentiments that had the Doc been able to continue the work he was doing he'd have brought us more success and possibly we wouldn't have had to wait another 16 years for a title. However, what was done was done. In today's society it's likely that he'd have kept his job.
 
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It was interesting hear Paddy being interviewed on this, having heard him do his after dinner speeches where he tells tales of basically spying on the Doc for Busby, you could see he was rather more reserved here. Mind a couple of times you could sense his true feelings towards him.

I share the sentiments that had the Doc been able to continue the work he was doing he'd have brought us more success and possibly we wouldn't have had to wait another 16 years for a title. However, what was done was done. In today's society it's likely that he'd have kept his job.
Aye, I like that Paddy is 100% pro United (even to the point he has rose tinted glasses at times) but I do feel that he could be a bit sneaky.... basically, the Busby players loved him (understandable) and anyone new struggled to gain their trust.

Re the bold bit, agree and I'm not sure then that they made the right decision - it was clearly a serious relationship (they're still together now?) but different times? That said in today's football, he'd have been sacked for the relegation though?
 

Maticmaker

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If a club stays out of the bottom three then it can be said to be "too good to go down" otherwise it's something of a nonsense statement.
 

Moriarty

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It would actually be fun getting relegated, something different. Won’t happen but one can dream
People may think that's a tongue-in-cheek remark but maybe not. When we went down in 1974, I remember quite a few United fans getting exited about causing mayhem at 2nd Division grounds the following season.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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We are not that bad. Although give Mourinho a window to sell our best players and then bring in 5 past it 30 year olds and we might fight for relegation next season.
Although since we will not get top 4 this season Mourinho will be fired once that is done.
 

The Cat

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People may think that's a tongue-in-cheek remark but maybe not. When we went down in 1974, I remember quite a few United fans getting exited about causing mayhem at 2nd Division grounds the following season.
Did they address that? As I remember the hooliganism was as bad at United as anywhere in this period wasn't it?
 
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If a club stays out of the bottom three then it can be said to be "too good to go down" otherwise it's something of a nonsense statement.
Is that all youve got to comment? The end of Busby, the painful decline of a European Cup winning team, the issues of Best, the failed replacements, relegation, a new team.... nothing on that.

"Too good to go down" is just a figure of speech that's used for 'big' clubs who are struggling.... as it was for United. Until Christmas, it was extremely unlikely then quickly got more and more likely until it was certain.
 

jojojo

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Is that all youve got to comment? The end of Busby, the painful decline of a European Cup winning team, the issues of Best, the failed replacements, relegation, a new team.... nothing on that.

"Too good to go down" is just a figure of speech that's used for 'big' clubs who are struggling.... as it was for United. Until Christmas, it was extremely unlikely then quickly got more and more likely until it was certain.
I think some people are reading the title and not even bothering to read the opening post.
 

Handré1990

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Aye, I like that Paddy is 100% pro United (even to the point he has rose tinted glasses at times) but I do feel that he could be a bit sneaky.... basically, the Busby players loved him (understandable) and anyone new struggled to gain their trust.

Re the bold bit, agree and I'm not sure then that they made the right decision - it was clearly a serious relationship (they're still together now?) but different times? That said in today's football, he'd have been sacked for the relegation though?
I’m sure I’ve heard the story before, but can’t remember the details. Why did he get the boot?
 

jojojo

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Did they address that? As I remember the hooliganism was as bad at United as anywhere in this period wasn't it?
Only in passing - they focused on the positive side of it, the fact that we stuck around, kept going to home games, and yes, took advantage of the fact that we could get to a bunch of away games at grounds where we could outnumber the home fans.
 
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I think some people are reading the title and not even bothering to read the opening post.
I find it amazing that there seems so little interest in pre PL times for United. I know I grew up in the 70s so maybe more relevant for me but knowing where we came from is part of being a fan to me.
I’m sure I’ve heard the story before, but can’t remember the details. Why did he get the boot?
He had an affair with Lawrie Browns' (physio) wife. In those times (and possibly influenced by Busby who was still about and quite old fashioned / principled), club thought they had to sack him. Shame, had created a half decent side (Buchan :drool:).
 

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I find it amazing that there seems so little interest in pre PL times for United. I know I grew up in the 70s so maybe more relevant for me but knowing where we came from is part of being a fan to me.

He had an affair with Lawrie Browns' (physio) wife. In those times (and possibly influenced by Busby who was still about and quite old fashioned / principled), club thought they had to sack him. Shame, had created a half decent side (Buchan :drool:).
Yes, that was it. Thanks for the lesson:) No way would the manager lose his job today, for that reason.
 

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Yes, that was it. Thanks for the lesson:) No way would the manager lose his job today, for that reason.
To add further, Busby was a catholic, and we were seen as a catholic club for a while due to this. So an out of marriage affair was a (still is in the religion) huge issue. I dare say had he had an affair with someone outside of the club, let alone someone whom he had to work closely with would have led to his sacking back then. As I mentioned previously Paddy had essentially said he'd been spying on him to Busby and I got the idea from that speech that Paddy was sure that Busby wanted any excuse to get rid of The Doc for some reason and this handed that on a plate.
 

meninred

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We wont qualify for champions league.Woodward will have solid reason to get rid of mouriniho.
 

Handré1990

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To add further, Busby was a catholic, and we were seen as a catholic club for a while due to this. So an out of marriage affair was a (still is in the religion) huge issue. I dare say had he had an affair with someone outside of the club, let alone someone whom he had to work closely with would have led to his sacking back then. As I mentioned previously Paddy had essentially said he'd been spying on him to Busby and I got the idea from that speech that Paddy was sure that Busby wanted any excuse to get rid of The Doc for some reason and this handed that on a plate.
Interesting. HBO should get on this! Cheers for the info!:)
 
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Worse than most, especially the away fans. I didn't see the documentary over here so I don't know if they did or not.
Yeah, United's away fans 70s/80s were pretty hard core. I went away a few times (with Dad) in 70s but loads in the 80s... some iffy moments but show (understandably) didn't cover it much.

If missed show, see post 35 on page.1?
 

Josep Dowling

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Watching the documentary the amount of parallels with the current state of the club was astounding.
 

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Just watched it
Brings back so many memories, some good, some not so. The incredible influence Sir Matt had on the club even in the sacking of the Doc is hard to believe these days, however when you look at United when he took over through all his achievements you can safety say that he is responsible for the behemoth we see today.
I loved the Doc's time as manager, he had a massive rebuiding job to do and succeeded in making United a force again while playing attacking football.
Plenty of bitterness from players left by the wayside mixed with lots of respect from the players he brought in.
 

Maticmaker

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Is that all youve got to comment? The end of Busby, the painful decline of a European Cup winning team, the issues of Best, the failed replacements, relegation, a new team.... nothing on that.

"Too good to go down" is just a figure of speech that's used for 'big' clubs who are struggling.... as it was for United. Until Christmas, it was extremely unlikely then quickly got more and more likely until it was certain.
Not really making the connection here!
United in 1974 were not "too good to go down" as was witnessed that season anybody who watched them would tell you that, we were awful, nobody I knew used that phrase it was obvious for some time, until the final few games whenTommy Docherty brought in some youngsters and changed the style of play. Docherty brought them back the year after and but for matters in his private life he may have gone on to greater things with the club.

I was referring to the general use of the phrase 'too good to go down', evidently those who do go down were not 'too good' hence it is a nonsense statement when applied in that way.
 
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Honest John

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Tommy Docherty. Offered a 3 year contract to manage Manchester United Football Club for £15,000 per annum :eek:
 

BigRon1985

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Although initially devastated after we were relegated it was great getting back to winning ways the following season albeit in the old second division. We were literally ripping teams to pieces and with a young side too. I think we could achieved more if the Doc hadn’t taken his eye off the ball so to speak.
 
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BigRon1985

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Yeah, United's away fans 70s/80s were pretty hard core. I went away a few times (with Dad) in 70s but loads in the 80s... some iffy moments but show (understandably) didn't cover it much.

If missed show, see post 35 on page.1?
I saw United play away at Spurs in Dec 1979. They had their biggest crowd of the season for that match, just under 52,000. We had a police escort from the train station and it was pretty scary. The United fans completely rammed the Paxton Road end and when Coppell scored the winner with 5 mins to go in a 2-1 win pandemonium broke out - loads of trouble after the match too. How I got out of there alive I don’t know. :nervous:
 

Honest John

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Norwich - 78 I think. We lost 1-2. Trying to get out the ground was a real crush and to get a kid out a couple of fans kicked a hole in the corregated sheet in the stand wall. It all kicked off then and United fans smashed the whole stand up. Pretty scary stuff.
 

Moriarty

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Yeah, United's away fans 70s/80s were pretty hard core. I went away a few times (with Dad) in 70s but loads in the 80s... some iffy moments but show (understandably) didn't cover it much.

If missed show, see post 35 on page.1?
Thanks for that. I just watched the opening few minutes and listened to Bobby talking, in hindsight, about how Busby should have initiated changes earlier. Talk about prescient. Couldn't he see the same thing happening here after Fergie retired? The signs were there for all to see.
 

wolvored

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Should be great, settling down to watch now. Supposed to have some excellent footage....

... always good to remember previous times/sides/results.

Despite being Div.2, we still had the highest average attendance in England :D
The Villa were in Div 3 that season and had the 2nd highest in England!
 

Moriarty

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I saw United play away at Spurs in Dec 1979. They had their biggest crowd of the season for that match, just under 52,000. We had a police escort from the train station and it was pretty scary. The United fans completely rammed the Paxton Road end and when Coppell scored the winner with 5 mins to go in a 2-1 win pandemonium broke out - loads of trouble after the match too. How I got out of there alive I don’t know. :nervous:
I was at that game. 0-1 down and Macari equalized. Spurs fans started that 'It's a long way to Seven Sisters' song but there were loads of reds there. The Cockney Reds, as usual, were in amongst them causing havoc. No scarves, no colours (except for the youngsters). That was how it was back then. Finally, for your viewing pleasure...

 
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Norwich - 78 I think. We lost 1-2. Trying to get out the ground was a real crush and to get a kid out a couple of fans kicked a hole in the corregated sheet in the stand wall. It all kicked off then and United fans smashed the whole stand up. Pretty scary stuff.
I was at that game. 0-1 down and Macari equalized. Spurs fans started that 'It's a long way to Seven Sisters' song but there were loads of reds there. The Cockney Reds, as usual, were in amongst them causing havoc. No scarves, no colours (except for the youngsters). That was how it was back then. Finally, for your viewing pleasure...

We were consistent? Win lose or draw.... it still kicked off?
 

Moriarty

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We were consistent? Win lose or draw.... it still kicked off?
There was a time in the early 70s when it was pretty much every week. You could guarantee trouble when we went to places like Liverpool, Leeds, West Ham, Spurs, or Chelsea. The result didn't seem to matter half of the time. Some lads just went for the aggro and nothing else but I never knew anyone personally who was that way inclined.
 

Moriarty

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Norwich - 78 I think. We lost 1-2. Trying to get out the ground was a real crush and to get a kid out a couple of fans kicked a hole in the corregated sheet in the stand wall. It all kicked off then and United fans smashed the whole stand up. Pretty scary stuff.
77 if memory serves. Doc was still in charge, I do remember that because there was another call to ban us from Wembley (the semi with Leeds was coming up) and Nationwide did an investigative piece. The weekend after it aired, the Stretford End were singing 'we're the famous Man United and we've been on Nationwide.'
 

Honest John

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77 if memory serves. Doc was still in charge, I do remember that because there was another call to ban us from Wembley (the semi with Leeds was coming up) and Nationwide did an investigative piece. The weekend after it aired, the Stretford End were singing 'we're the famous Man United and we've been on Nationwide.'
You're right. I was thinking about it again last night and I remember it being the day that Red Rum won the National for the 3rd time and us all laughing at the mad radio commentary of that. I also remember the song on the Stretford End about Nationwide.

Incidentally, you mentioned that semi-final against Leeds. That was at Hillsborough and I was in one of those notorious pens they had there. I can tell you it was the nearest to death I have ever been. The crush was unbelievable. My feet were off the ground it was so tight. When tragedy did occur there with Liverpool, I remember thinking that place was a disaster waiting to happen.

What got me is that the police arranged the whole thing to make the traffic situation convenient and to stop fans from clashing. No thought of capacity and crowd numbers was ever considered. I could see the Leeds fans in that massive Spion Kop end sitting on the terraces in acres of space drinking coffee and eating burgers. While we were having the breath crushed out of us. It was pretty obvious in that season that United would have twice as many fans as Leeds and we should have been that end of the pitch.

It was the same situation with Liverpool v Nottingham Forest. Liverpool were bound to have more there. Looking at the geography of the ground it wouldn't have been too much of an ask to have put the more numerous fans at the most capacious end of the ground. Police back then didn't give a toss about football fans. All were tarred with the same hooligan brush and treated like cattle.