Top 10 best squads in Europe on paper

[VanDeBank]

OCCASIONNAL good performances, that's a big difference. If they're in an average day they won't be able to compete against top midfielders.

And the space they have to cover is a very separate issue. I'm talking about the way they deal with the ball while under pressure, which is a HUGE factor at the highest level. And the answer is : they suck at it and do everything to give it to Verratti so they're off the hook. That's not the way you play high level football, not with players scared of having the ball in their feet.

I don't really know why people here, most of them watching 5 PSG games a year top, are trying to prove our midfielders aren't that bad. I think I know how good or bad they are.

Get off your high horse. I saw Wijnaldum debut more than 10 years ago. You think you a better idea of his capabilities because you "heard" he didn't have a good last season at Liverpool and saw him warm up a few times?

If they're capable of good performances, maybe they can keep those up if they are picked based on a form?. Like I said you have 6 somewhat competent ones and I just watched a team with James fecking Milner in midfield smash mine. Liverpool would love to have kept Wijnaldum and they're challenging for the title. You guys need water carriers and not another diva with silky technique.

 

[christinaa]

Henderson is so much more a reliable PL player than the overrated (can't play without Kante) thug Pogba. More hindsighting to come.

Pogba more of a thug than Henderson!

 

[Cascarino]

.And in case you forgot, chelsea are the current european champions. Please tell me about all these amazing technical midfielders they have who allow them to play possession football against the best sides...

Chelsea do have good technical midfielders to be fair, at least related to ball retention.

I think that PSG midfield is fine though, Liverpool won the CL a couple years back with Henderson Wijnaldum and Milner

 

[giorno]

Chelsea do have good technical midfielders to be fair, at least related to ball retention.

I think that PSG midfield is fine though, Liverpool won the CL a couple years back with Henderson Wijnaldum and Milner

Chelsea have Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Loftus-Cheek and Mount. These guys are not better than PSG's options at keeping and moving the ball. Chelsea are more cohesive because their forwards are more willing to press and track back, and they're better coached

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Chelsea have Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Loftus-Cheek and Mount. These guys are not better than PSG's options at keeping and moving the ball. Chelsea are more cohesive because their forwards are more willing to press and track back, and they're better coached

Disagree. Verratti is better at ball retention and movement than anyone we have but on the whole ours are much better as a collective. Kovacic, Jorginho, and Kante are all better at retaining and progressing the ball vs. anyone in PSG's midfield besides Verratti (and honestly, if RLC continues playing the way he has done this season he's up there too).

Respectfully think as well you're overlooking the importance of both midfielders being able to resist the press and progress the ball together. You can have an all-conquering midfielder but if he's playing next to a clogger the team will struggle.

 

[Oly Francis]

Disagree. Verratti is better at ball retention and movement than anyone we have but on the whole ours are much better as a collective. Kovacic, Jorginho, and Kante are all better at retaining and progressing the ball vs. anyone in PSG's midfield besides Verratti (and honestly, if RLC continues playing the way he has done this season he's up there too).

Respectfully think as well you're overlooking the importance of both midfielders being able to resist the press and progress the ball together. You can have an all-conquering midfielder but if he's playing next to a clogger the team will struggle.

That's not even close, you can also add that Kante's ability with the ball are often underated, he rarely misses a controle or medium range pass when Gueye for exemple (who has a similar profile) can have nights when he misses teamates 10m far from him. I'd take Kante/Kovacic over Gueye/Herrera ANY day of the week.

 

[Andycoleno9]

1- Paris Saint-Germain
2- Manchester City
3- Bayern Munich
4- Chelsea
5- Manchester United
6- Liverpool
7- Real Madrid
8- Juventus
9- Atlético Madrid
10- FC Barcelona

Agree with this

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

That's not even close, you can also add that Kante's ability with the ball are often underated, he rarely misses a controle or medium range pass when Gueye for exemple (who has a similar profile) can have nights when he misses teamates 10m far from him. I'd take Kante/Kovacic over Gueye/Herrera ANY day of the week.

Hm? Bit confused as I think you're agreeing with what I've said?

 

[Oly Francis]

Hm? Bit confused as I think you're agreeing with what I've said?

I thought i was clear enough sorry, I do agree with what you've said.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I thought i was clear enough sorry, I do agree with what you've said.

Ah my mistake apologies!

 

[Cascarino]

Chelsea have Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Loftus-Cheek and Mount. These guys are not better than PSG's options at keeping and moving the ball. Chelsea are more cohesive because their forwards are more willing to press and track back, and they're better coached

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with the bolded, I don’t watch enough of PSG domestically to have a fair opinion. Just that Chelsea do have very good technical midfielders in the facets of the game we’re talking about.

 

[Borussin]

Simple

Bayern
PSG
City
Liverpool
United
Chelsea

There is no way United have a better squad than Chelsea. I get this is a Man Utd forum so of course there is going to be more bias towards the squad, but Chelsea are just stronger almost in all areas. Mendy has been a revelation and along with Alisson is the best goalie in the prem at the moment. In defence, I’d maybe take Shaw, and Varane if he gets back to his top form which I do not think he has shown as yet, but early days,, but otherwise Rudiger and James are in, plus their squad options in Chilwell, Azpilcueta are far better. Their whole midfield is stronger, apart from Fernandes in place of Mount, but even then, plenty would argue for Mount, and again their depth in those positions are stronger with Havertz especially so. Man Utd have better forward depth, but that is the only area they are stronger. Chelsea are the better squad.

 

[Oly Francis]

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with the bolded, I don’t watch enough of PSG domestically to have a fair opinion. Just that Chelsea do have very good technical midfielders in the facets of the game we’re talking about.

PSG is struggling to move the ball even domestically in Ligue 1. It's because of the pretty bad coaching we currently have under Pochettino but also because of the quality of our midfielders.

And Verratti just got injured and is out for a month or so...

 

[ItzdoctorZ]

As per exact positions played:

Alisson -> Henderson/DdG
Trent -> AWB
Matip <- Varane
VvD -> Maguire
Robertson <- Shaw
Fab -> McTom
Capn Fantastic Hendo -> Pogba
Thiago <- Bruno
Salah -> Sancho
Jota -> Only 20minsInTheTank Cavani
Mane -> Rashford

That's 8 players versus 3. I think "clearly" covers it. You could argue one or two players (Cavani, Pogba) but then equally so could I (Robbo, Matip).

Shaw is better than Robertson? What? I'm shocked this was said by a Liverpool fan...

 

[Dumbstar]

Shaw is better than Robertson? What? I'm shocked this was said by a Liverpool fan...

He was most of last season and the summer. Remember I posted that before this season's meltdown.

Ironically I was being ridiculed for putting Hendo > Pogba.

 

[troylocker]

1- Paris Saint-Germain
2- Manchester City
3- Bayern Munich
4- Chelsea
5- Manchester United
6- Liverpool
7- Real Madrid
8- Juventus
9- Atlético Madrid
10- FC Barcelona

This pretty much. I would maybe shuffle a bit from 4th to 6th, but those are very tight.

 

[giorno]

December edition:

1) Bayern Munich
2) Manchester City
3) PSG
4) Liverpool
5) Chelsea
6) Real Madrid
7) Inter
8) Manchester United
9) Atletico Madrid
10) Napoli

 

[AjaxCunian]

I think Bayern is a top 3 coached team and so is their starting 11, but their squad depth is nowhere near what it was and impossibly better than City, PSG, Chelsea.

Difficult to have them at one.

 

[Hammondo]

December edition:

1) Bayern Munich
2) Manchester City
3) PSG
4) Liverpool
5) Chelsea
6) Real Madrid
7) Inter
8) Manchester United
9) Atletico Madrid
10) Napoli

Seems good on the data we have. This CL will be interesting, might change it up a bit.

 

[Markolan]

I pretty much agree even if I would add Ajax.

1. FC Bayern 2. Manchester City 3. Liverpool 4. PSG 5. Chelsea 6. Real Madrid 7. Ajax 8. Inter 9. Manchester United 10. Atletico

 

[bosnian_red]

Best starting 11 on paper assuming no injuries, for balance, completeness and quality (ignoring coaching).

Tier 1 (complete starting 11s filled with top players):

• Bayern
• Liverpool

Tier 2:

• PSG (not enough defensive balance)
• City (no striker)
• Real Madrid (not enough peak level quality)

Tier 3:

• United (some gaps in quality and balance)
• Chelsea (some gaps in quality)

Tier 4:

• Inter
• Dortmund
• Atletico Madrid
• Barcelona
• Juventus

 

[Jerzol78]

I think Bayern is a top 3 coached team and so is their starting 11, but their squad depth is nowhere near what it was and impossibly better than City, PSG, Chelsea.

Difficult to have them at one.

I think that Bayern's first 11 is on paper the best squad and even including first choice substitutes they are clearly the best on paper.
It looks like:
Neuer
Pavard Upamecano Hernandez Davies
Kimmich Goretzka
Coman Muller Sane
Lewandowski
Significant subs: Sule, Coman, Musiala, Sabitzer, Tolisso, Choupo-Moting.

The problem starts further, when one of the main squad drops out, there are significantly weaker options deeper in the squad: Stanisic, Sarr, Richards, Roca. That's where the full squad might be only among top 3-4, and not the best.

 

[AjaxCunian]

I think that Bayern's first 11 is on paper the best squad and even including first choice substitutes they are clearly the best on paper.
It looks like:
Neuer
Pavard Upamecano Hernandez Davies
Kimmich Goretzka
Coman Muller Sane
Lewandowski
Significant subs: Sule, Coman, Musiala, Sabitzer, Tolisso, Choupo-Moting.

The problem starts further, when one of the main squad drops out, there are significantly weaker options deeper in the squad: Stanisic, Sarr, Richards, Roca. That's where the full squad might be only among top 3-4, and not the best.

Good post though I think you mean Gnabry instead of Coman.

So far, I am not a huge fan of Pavard, Hernandez, Sule. Sabitzer hasnt set the world alight I think and Musiala while a terrific talent is not yet at the level of those City/Chelsea squad players that could easily be starters.

 

[Jerzol78]

Good post though I think you mean Gnabry instead of Coman.

So far, I am not a huge fan of Pavard, Hernandez, Sule. Sabitzer hasnt set the world alight I think and Musiala while a terrific talent is not yet at the level of those City/Chelsea squad players that could easily be starters.

Yeah, I meant Gnabry, but frankly speaking it is hard to establish who should be in the starting eleven and who on the bench. Gnabry has more goals, but Coman recently plays better. I meant to put Gnabry on the bench.
As for the others, it's just an "on paper" discussion, so it's also about the general status of the players and not necessarily current form. And Pavard and Hernandez are in starting elven of the World Champion NT. WIth regard to the form factor, the truth is that although Kimmich Gortezka duo was probably the best midfield duo in the world, their form this season is not that great either. Sabitzer is mentioned also for his general renown, as he too can't find his footing in the new club.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Yeah, I meant Gnabry, but frankly speaking it is hard to establish who should be in the starting eleven and who on the bench. Gnabry has more goals, but Coman recently plays better. I meant to put Gnabry on the bench.
As for the others, it's just an "on paper" discussion, so it's also about the general status of the players and not necessarily current form. And Pavard and Hernandez are in starting elven of the World Champion NT. WIth regard to the form factor, the truth is that although Kimmich Gortezka duo was probably the best midfield duo in the world, their form this season is not that great either. Sabitzer is mentioned also for his general renown, as he too can't find his footing in the new club.

I don't think Hernandez is a starter for France, I think they start Varane - Kimpembe, with his brother now as LB or maybe Mendy soon.

Pavard is very decent, but is the weakest link for both Bayern/France who would gladly upgrade I reckon. He doesnt compare to Cancelo, Trent, James or even Walker at all.

Sabitzer was class at Leipzig and Austrian NT, good player there, probably needs some time.

 

[2ndTouch]

I don't think Hernandez is a starter for France, I think they start Varane - Kimpembe, with his brother now as LB or maybe Mendy soon.

Pavard is very decent, but is the weakest link for both Bayern/France who would gladly upgrade I reckon. He doesnt compare to Cancelo, Trent, James or even Walker at all.

Sabitzer was class at Leipzig and Austrian NT, good player there, probably needs some time.

You can't really compare Pavard or Süle to the other players you've mentioned, as our "RB" mainly functions as RCB in our system which operates with a back 3 when in attack.

 

[AjaxCunian]

You can't really compare Pavard or Süle to the other players you've mentioned, as our "RB" mainly functions as RCB in our system which operates with a back 3 when in attack.

Why did you want Dest then I must wonder?

Fair point nonetheless, both good players and if rated as CB, maybe more comparable with the likes of Stones, Matip, Christensen/Chalobah.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I think its really close between Bayern and PSG, if having to make a combined XI I think Bayern would nail it 6-5.

I see it this way:

1-. Bayern
2-. PSG
3-. Liverpool
4-. City
.
.
.
5-. Madrid
6-. Chelsea
7-. ManUtd
.
.
8-. Atletico
9-. Dortmund
10-. Juve

This is based on best XI with 3 subs. Not an entire 23-25 squad.

 

[Hammondo]

I think its really close between Bayern and PSG, if having to make a combined XI I think Bayern would nail it 6-5.

I see it this way:

1-. Bayern
2-. PSG
3-. Liverpool
4-. City
.
.
.
5-. Madrid
6-. Chelsea
7-. ManUtd
.
.
8-. Atletico
9-. Dortmund
10-. Juve

This is based on best XI with 3 subs. Not an entire 23-25 squad.

I think we are in the bottom group.

 

[slored1]

December edition:

1) Bayern Munich
2) Manchester City
3) PSG
4) Liverpool
5) Chelsea
6) Real Madrid
7) Inter
8) Manchester United
9) Atletico Madrid
10) Napoli

I would say Inter and Napoli are slightly overrated here. Inter lacks strikers and Napoli lacks squad depth. Would put United above Inter and Ajax above Napoli to be fair.

 

[AndySmith1990]

The whole "on paper" thing is pointless. Football isn't played on paper, and it's a team based sport. This way of thinking is what ruins constructive discussion because people form options about teams based on how they rate individuals on paper.

 

[DoneDaDa]

I think Bayern is a top 3 coached team and so is their starting 11, but their squad depth is nowhere near what it was and impossibly better than City, PSG, Chelsea.

Difficult to have them at one.

Bayern depth is right up there with City, Chelsea and PSG.

 

[giorno]

I would say Inter and Napoli are slightly overrated here. Inter lacks strikers and Napoli lacks squad depth. Would put United above Inter and Ajax above Napoli to be fair.

Inter doesn't lack strikers, as evidenced by all 4 of their strikers doing well and not particularly suffering from injury to one of them. They have less talent than United but it's better distributed. Napoli don't lack for depth either, not anymore than any side besides the ones above them imo. And i rate their starting XI and bench above Ajax, individually

 

[2ndTouch]

Why did you want Dest then I must wonder?

To have more options(glad we dodged that headless chicken that is Dest, though). Right now, we don't have an out and out RB in our squad. As long as Davies is fit, there's no room for such a player in the starting line up, but Phonzie won't make all games, so..

Fair point nonetheless, both good players and if rated as CB, maybe more comparable with the likes of Stones, Matip, Christensen/Chalobah.

They are both pretty underrated, which is no small part on themselves, as they are both phlegmatic. But they are very complete players, with a great passing range and aerial play. Süle is rather pacey to top it off.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I think we are in the bottom group.

We have players such as Varane, Ronaldo, Bruno and Sancho who are elite. Also followed by some pretty good ones such as Shaw, Greenwood, Rashford, Cavani, Pogba, etc

Dont let our poor form fool you into thinking we dont have a good squad. Remember Chelsea, their squad look awful before Tuchel. The squad its only as good as it performs, under proper coaching we can challenge anyone.

 

[Hammondo]

We have players such as Varane, Ronaldo, Bruno and Sancho who are elite. Also followed by some pretty good ones such as Shaw, Greenwood, Rashford, Cavani, Pogba, etc

Dont let our poor form fool you into thinking we dont have a good squad. Remember Chelsea, their squad look awful before Tuchel. The squad its only as good as it performs, under proper coaching we can challenge anyone.

I think Chelsea's team was just very underrated before Tuchel. Obviously he's done a fantastic job also, but their squad is very good.

I think a lot of our players are overrated, good at more flashy stuff, crap are the core footballing basics.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I think Chelsea's team was just very underrated before Tuchel. Obviously he's done a fantastic job also, but their squad is very good.

I think a lot of our players are overrated, good at more flashy stuff, crap are the core footballing basics.

As I said, a squad its only as good as it performs. We may very well be underrated at the moment, I think an "objective" meassure would be the squad value and ours is rated higher than Chelsea.

If we can perfect gegenpress Im sure suddenly it'll appear we have a much better squad.

 

[stefan92]

Why did you want Dest then I must wonder?

Lack of depth I guess. The only quality attacking fullback Bayern have is Davies, but if he is not available usually Hernandez has to play as LB.

 

[Hammondo]

As I said, a squad its only as good as it performs. We may very well be underrated at the moment, I think an "objective" meassure would be the squad value and ours is rated higher than Chelsea.

If we can perfect gegenpress Im sure suddenly it'll appear we have a much better squad.

Squad value is as objective as it gets. There is no real objective way of doing it.