Ole's first real test
Top 4 race / race abandoned (or maybe not) / Leicester & Chelsea in the process of bottling it
- Thread starter Andycoleno9
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
This is the exact scenario that shows the need for Micheal Essien type of midfielder in our team. Instead of relying on McFred next season, we really should be in a market for a box to box midfielder with good technical ability, football vision and math skills.
Real shame for Leicester City. I guess they have achieved something very special by winning the FA cup
I am still hoping that Liverpool to lose points in their 2 final matches.
Point at home vs bloody Newcastle would be enough for Leicester. They bottled it again. How far they were from Liverpool month ago? 10 points?
I would seriously dispute the word comfortably but yes United have been the best of the rest but like I say things have gone United's way and as of now if I were handicapping next season with squads and management as things stand then I would have United firmly in the pack of 4-5 teams attempting to chase City, would you disagree?
I get there are circumstances like lack of pre season but then nobody had much of one anyway and your manager failed abysmally to utilise his squad both last season and this so some of that is self-inflicted. You also had a Europa League campaign in the second half of the season instead of a CL one, with a cushy path too that was in comparison to a CL run far less demanding and taxing both in terms of focus and intensity.
Not only xG, it's not a bible but for example only Crystal Palace, Newcastle and West Brom have conceded more home league goals than United.
United have taken 2.2 points per game in games where they have conceded first which is freakish and just plain unsustainable.
As always there's a middle ground but I would say the eye test leans more in my direction than it does "clearly the second best team in the country".
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Both are true, you were the best team in the league and you drastically overperformed. the league table said you were 18 points better than City and 33+ better than the rest and you were never. Still deserving champions though.
Judge A scores the fight 118-106
Judge B scores the fight 112-108
Both declare the same winner, just one has it less convincing than the other.
Why do couch potatoes on a forum just refuse to accept how tiring this schedule was ? The fact that we lost one game outside of the two mad scheduling periods is incredible. Looking at the numbers this has been our best season in a long time. I understand people want to be right more than United to win but you surely can't debate that the schedule is affecting things. Pool nearly drew with west brom and city gone done by Brighton this week. It is a mad time, use your brains
I think you're being a bit disingenuous only adding qualifiers to those where you weren't successful, for the season you narrowly missed out see last season where you narrowly made it thanks to chasing down a complete collapse from Leicester.
The narrative this season is a Leicester collapse when this season looks like prime Tiger Woods levels of composure from them compared to last season to let you in.
19/20 Leicester took 17 points from their last 17 games
This season they have taken 27 points with one game to play from their last 17 games.
So if the narrative is that x or y are going to benefit because "bloody Leicester the bottle jobs" then United's top 4 spot last season stands for little credit in terms of counting towards being established.
See above. Very unfair and I would say inaccurate to say they are bottling it.
liverpool will worm their way in to 4th on goal difference.
Leicester are going to miss out.
Leicester are going to miss out.
"Liverpool nearly drew with West Brom because of the tiring schedule" - they've taken 20 points from last 24 available, they actually not nearly drew with West Brom in December and got humped by Villa earlier in the season.
"City got done by Brighton because even they're tired" - City took 1.66 points per game to the start of December and 2.43 points per game since then.
Use brains you say?
These claims mean nothing really. If Chelsea win the CL I'd even say they have a claim to have had the best season of all English teams. The only certain fact to conclude from this season is that Utd will have had the second best domestic season, which gets you nothing. Everything else is just a snapshot and can change in a heartbeat when looking at next season. If I had to decide right now whether they'll finish first or second in the league next season, I'd say no.
I don't know if it was you or another opposition poster who said it but they can keep finishing second in a league for a very long time for me if it means they keep Ole on board.
I’ll use mine and look at the table, we’re second. Since we reached the final and guaranteed our Champs league place at Villa our form has gone out the window, well I’ll use my brain again there I think."Liverpool nearly drew with West Brom because of the tiring schedule" - they've taken 20 points from last 24 available, they actually not nearly drew with West Brom in December and got humped by Villa earlier in the season.
"City got done by Brighton because even they're tired" - City took 1.66 points per game to the start of December and 2.43 points per game since then.
Use brains you say?
Rogers decision to not start Iheanacho yesterday is one of the worst I have seen for a very long time, and may have cost Leicester a CL place.
Vardy is totally finished, deceiving the people by sprinting full pelt at any and everything but isn’t a goal threat. Favouritism towards him showed weakness in Rogers for me.
Vardy is totally finished, deceiving the people by sprinting full pelt at any and everything but isn’t a goal threat. Favouritism towards him showed weakness in Rogers for me.
Likewise, I think you're being a bit disingenuous too. That narrow third place came as a result of us being unbeaten since January in the league, and only dropping points in 4 games. That's title contending form, and it's form which we've by and large sustained into this season too, despite the numerous issues we've had. We've certainly done a better job of sustaining it than the clubs around us.
What you are complaining about you are doing the exact same thing. You make it seem like we finish behind you every season by 30 points. Last 3 years we have finished above you, same points and this year 4 points currently separate us, that suggests that there isn't much in it at all. You got knocked out of your CL group while we are in the final. I find it funny we are in third place considering our highest goal scorer is Jorginho with 7 goals all from penalties.
Last season we lost our manager, best player, had a transfer ban and a rookie manager in charge and not many expected us to get top four. While you spent a fortune and we still finished level on points with you, this season was kinda the opposite. Not sure what you mean by "spunked all are money away".
Utd fans aren't arrogant?. Im confident we will get top four and win the champions league.
Got a feeling Liverpool will drop points to Burnley tonight and Leicester will beat Spurs at home in the last game of the season.
Even a draw isn't disastrous for Liverpool tonight. They'd still be likely to get in with Leicester away to Spurs.
It has to be a loss to put the heat on.
It has to be a loss to put the heat on.
Anything less than a win is a disaster for Liverpool it would mean wins for Chelsea and Leicester on last match day they are out and Leicester are at home against Tottenham.
I will watch. I would love a Burnley win, but I know I will turn off the TV knowing we need a win against Villa. Liverpool have a team that can score.
In 2015/16, Tottenham finished 3rd and Leicester won the title. That cued the "3rd in a two horse race" and "bottle jobs" tropes, saying that we'd "bottled the title".
Compare that to what you've put:
- Spurs won 10, drew 5, and lost 4 of the final 17 games; in fact, with one to play, it was won 11, drew 5, lost 3. That's 38 points from 17 games (11 more than Leicester)
- At no point were Spurs top of the league. At game 20, spurs were 4th and Arsenal top. By game 28, spurs were 2nd and Leicester top. Leicester were clear and away leading, and spurs were only 2nd by virtue of Arsenal's collapse
So, it's a complete paradox to define 'bottling' by "failure to take something that was never held" over "(potentially) falling out of the top 4 where you've been all season".
So I don't think it's inaccurate - I'd say it's spot on, by the above measure.
Well said
Spot on.
That's the best case scenario for us. I can only hope !!
Yup, it's not the end of the world. Suppose some our worried that we look a-bit shite with a cup final coming up.
Yeah that was me or at least along those lines, i mean i'd rather they finished 4th every second year as long as that was enough to keep hold of him to be honest as opposed to 2nd every year
Disagree on the snapshots and closed book idea as past events are the most reliable indicator we have of future events and most of the time things, people, teams will either progress or regress to the mean.
Iheanacho didn't get a kick in the Cup final, was totally taken out of the game so from that point of view I could understand it.
Liverpool will trash Burnley, don't get your hopes up.
Ahh, I see we have hit the time of the season when we get written off and underrated by Chelsea fans and Liverpool fans again. See you all in the summer for the very same debates as last year...
Agree on the form and doing better than others but again that's not my critique. My point is your points total is not in my eyes an accurate reflection of your performances.
I don't think the numbers are title contending either, not these days, maybe 5-6+ years ago.
I cant believe the dippers will make it in. I suppose Brendan needs Burnley to do a favour tonight.,"by the above measure" is the issue, the above measure being nonsense mainly.
In fact you can pretty much blanket any sports fan who regularly uses the terms bottle job or choke as a results oriented and reactionary moron.
If Burnley win tonight, I'm going to go out and buy a life sized Sean Dyche.
Burnley are on the beach. They will get utterly obliterated tonight
There's a sentence that's thrown me off my chair in 2021.
Never write off a Burnley shithousery masterclass.
Believe.
Believe.
Yeah it had 3-0/4-0 to the Dippers written all over it. Can see the Burnley team walking onto the pitch with their beach towels and sunglasses for this one.
From a purely entertainment stand point, a 1-0 Liverpool win tonight would make for a cracking last day.
Would still mean Leicester would have to win by at least 3 against Spurs assuming Liverpool only managed 1-0 vs Palace as well.
If Liverpool win both they'll make it.
Could be fun if Leicester race to a 2-0 lead inside 20 minutes.