Top 4 race

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
33,860
I'm more rooting for West Ham purely down to Jesse being there and playing so well. Although I don't want him back, I'd love for him to make a success of his career elsewhere.
Pretty sure he's done enough to earn a very good move somewhere as it is. In the grand scheme of things, I still dislike Moyes for what he did post-Sir Alex.
 

P-Nut

fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
18,751
Location
Oldham, Greater Manchester
Pretty sure he's done enough to earn a very good move somewhere as it is. In the grand scheme of things, I still dislike Moyes for what he did post-Sir Alex.
Yeah I can see both sides, I'd say I've got more of a dislike for Jose than Moyes purely because Moyes was actually trying until the end, whereas Jose went on sabotage mode once he didn't get his signings.
 

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
33,860
Yeah I can see both sides, I'd say I've got more of a dislike for Jose than Moyes purely because Moyes was actually trying until the end, whereas Jose went on sabotage mode once he didn't get his signings.
Fair enough, but at least Jose won a couple of things and didn't say things like "we look to emulate to Liverpool" back in a season we were reigning champions and they won sod all for years.
 

P-Nut

fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
18,751
Location
Oldham, Greater Manchester
Fair enough, but at least Jose won a couple of things and didn't say things like "we look to emulate to Liverpool" back in a season we were reigning champions and they won sod all for years.
Wasn't it City, but yeah still unforgivable.
 

Samid

follows Pogue around, fixing his images
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
30,787
Location
Oslo, Norway
Yes my bad, "atleast" probably isn't the right word. We need 16 to ensure we will get top 4 not matter what happens with others.
Again, this isn't true.

Maximum points:
3. Leicester 80*
4. West Ham 76*
---
5. Chelsea 75*
6.Everton 74
7/8. Spurs/Pool 73
(United 60 points currently)

* Whatever the result between West Ham and Chelsea, one of those is guaranteed to drop to 73 points. And this is before factoring in Leicester also have to face both West Ham and Chelsea. Two of Leicester, West Ham and Chelsea are guaranteed to drop points no matter what.

Everton are never catching us on GD so they can effectively reach 73 points.

Absolute worst case we need 14 points to guarantee top 4. Realistically 12 points will be more than enough because most of those teams are going to drop points at various stages.
 

Igor Drefljak

Definitely Russian
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
6,437
Location
The Wastelands
Would be hilarious if both West Ham and Tottenham made the top 4. Uniteds current and two recent ex managers all in the Champions league.

That being said. I cant see Leicester falling out of it. Out of the clubs in and around, I'd like Everton more than any I think, then West Ham next.
I'd love to say Villa, but I don't see them having a chance really.

It would also be hilarious to see Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool and Arsenal all miss out on Europe

City
United
Leicester
Everton
West Ham

Would be fantastic
 

Amarsdd

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
1,769
It’s interesting to go back to the OP on this one. He was dead on about City.
The rest.... have a read.
just had a look at the first couple of pages :lol: . Some had Arsenal in the top 4 and the majority predicting us having no chance.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
26,234
What positions is it for the Europa league? Just 5th and 6th?
 

George the Cat

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
65
Again, this isn't true.

Maximum points:
3. Leicester 80*
4. West Ham 76*
---
5. Chelsea 75*
6.Everton 74
7/8. Spurs/Pool 73
(United 60 points currently)

* Whatever the result between West Ham and Chelsea, one of those is guaranteed to drop to 73 points. And this is before factoring in Leicester also have to face both West Ham and Chelsea. Two of Leicester, West Ham and Chelsea are guaranteed to drop points no matter what.

Everton are never catching us on GD so they can effectively reach 73 points.

Absolute worst case we need 14 points to guarantee top 4. Realistically 12 points will be more than enough because most of those teams are going to drop points at various stages.
Thanks for posting this. I cannot believe the negativity displayed sometimes, you’d think they weren’t actually Man United fans.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
17,615
What positions is it for the Europa league? Just 5th and 6th?
Depends on who wins the League cup.

Edit: It’s actually who wins the FA Cup and where they finish. League Cup is only worth the conference league now.
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
19,472
Location
16th century
Again, this isn't true.

Maximum points:
3. Leicester 80*
4. West Ham 76*
---
5. Chelsea 75*
6.Everton 74
7/8. Spurs/Pool 73
(United 60 points currently)

* Whatever the result between West Ham and Chelsea, one of those is guaranteed to drop to 73 points. And this is before factoring in Leicester also have to face both West Ham and Chelsea. Two of Leicester, West Ham and Chelsea are guaranteed to drop points no matter what.

Everton are never catching us on GD so they can effectively reach 73 points.

Absolute worst case we need 14 points to guarantee top 4. Realistically 12 points will be more than enough because most of those teams are going to drop points at various stages.
Even as little as 10 points out of 24 will probably be enough, considering the overall performances and consistency of our rivals. That's three wins and a draw. It would be the mother of all collapses if we failed now.
 

always_hoping

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Not a fan of West Ham at all, but it’s a no brainer compared to Liverpool of Chelsea so no surprise that’s what people want.

I don’t quite see the same level of worry for Liverpool, they have been awful for ages and one decent win over a shocking Arsenal side shouldn’t change that.
Liverpool won their last 3 games in a row without conceding a goal and another win again tonight they'll have turned a corner. If they finish 4th it won't surprise me at all. Their run-in is probably the easiest of the top 4 challengers.
 

matherto

ask me about our 50% off sale!
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
15,246
Location
St. Helens
Not a fan of West Ham at all, but it’s a no brainer compared to Liverpool of Chelsea so no surprise that’s what people want.

I don’t quite see the same level of worry for Liverpool, they have been awful for ages and one decent win over a shocking Arsenal side shouldn’t change that.
Why is it a no brainier compared to Chelsea?

I couldn’t care less about Chelsea.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
20,622
Location
Where the grass is greener.
Why is it a no brainier compared to Chelsea?

I couldn’t care less about Chelsea.
Chelsea are competition for quality players, West Ham are not. Getting CL allows Chelsea to improve their team further with the ability to attract the best players. Plus its much funnier if they miss out.
 

ZolaWasMagic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
1,091
Supports
Chelsea
I must be foolish then as I don't think Chelsea have got even half a chance
based on what though? If we finished top 4, and Abramovich really, really, wanted to tempt him, he'd throw silly money at it.

To think Chelsea would have zero chance if Haaland wanted to come to England, is naive
 

ZolaWasMagic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
1,091
Supports
Chelsea
Pretty sure a Bild report already said he has no interest in joining Chelsea
That is because theyre talking shit. Werner had no interest in anyone bar Liverpool. Havertz wanted only real madrid. All according to Bild.

Raiola called them out for their BS. In Germany they have a terrible reputation. Read the story again, it was absolute tosh

He'll go to Spain, but if he wanted to come to England, we'd be in with a shout. Apart from City, we'd blow most away financially
 
Last edited:

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
26,234
based on what though?
For starters Chelsea obviously aren't as big as Barca, Madrid or us, now that might not matter if you're challenging for titles like City but you're not and haven't done for 4 seasons now

It'll sound like I'm being unfairly harsh on Chelsea but right now when you read the list of clubs supposedly in for him Chelsea to me read as an insignificant footnote

Now if Chelsea were to somehow win the UCL this season then they put themselves right back in the spotlight and you might have another Hazard situation
 

Andycoleno9

Full Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
15,212
Location
Croatia
of course he isnt. hes going to spain, but if he came to england, you'd be foolish to think we'd not have a chance
Seems to me that every player these days is "Real bound". Haaland, Mbappe, Pogba, Alaba. Sure Real (Barca could not afford 20mil for Depay) is maybe first option to all players but they can buy only one. And that one is Mbappe. So Haaland will come to England. And imo, all top clubs have a chance. Who pays more will get him
 

ZolaWasMagic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
1,091
Supports
Chelsea
Seems to me that every player these days is "Real bound". Haaland, Mbappe, Pogba, Alaba. Sure Real (Barca could not afford 20mil for Depay) is maybe first option to all players but they can buy only one. And that one is Mbappe. So Haaland will come to England. And imo, all top clubs have a chance. Who pays more will get him
Im not too sure he will move this summer. Dortmund have come out again and said he'll stay and isnt for sale. See if they stick to their guns like they did Sancho.
 

ZolaWasMagic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
1,091
Supports
Chelsea
For starters Chelsea obviously aren't as big as Barca, Madrid or us, now that might not matter if you're challenging for titles like City but you're not and haven't done for 4 seasons now

It'll sound like I'm being unfairly harsh on Chelsea but right now when you read the list of clubs supposedly in for him Chelsea to me read as an insignificant footnote

Now if Chelsea were to somehow win the UCL this season then they put themselves right back in the spotlight and you might have another Hazard situation
You'd be surprised. If its money, other than City we'd blow them all away, if we wanted. If it's simply lets join the biggest club, he will join madrid.

I think they'll get him because usually when this noise is made around them and a player, the inevitable happens, eventually.

Like, i dont know when, but its nailed on Mbappe goes there, too
 

Zaphod2319

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
397
Supports
Chelsea
For starters Chelsea obviously aren't as big as Barca, Madrid or us, now that might not matter if you're challenging for titles like City but you're not and haven't done for 4 seasons now

It'll sound like I'm being unfairly harsh on Chelsea but right now when you read the list of clubs supposedly in for him Chelsea to me read as an insignificant footnote

Now if Chelsea were to somehow win the UCL this season then they put themselves right back in the spotlight and you might have another Hazard situation
How long has it been since Man Utd won a trophy? Any trophy for that matter? Starting to sound like Arsenal living off old memories.
 

Kentonio

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
12,163
Location
Stamford Bridge
Im not too sure he will move this summer. Dortmund have come out again and said he'll stay and isnt for sale. See if they stick to their guns like they did Sancho.
His buyout comes into play next season, at 60m if my memory serves correctly. If someone was willing to go 100m+ this year, then no way are Dortmund turning down that kind of profit.
 

Infra-red

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
9,737
Location
left wing
His buyout comes into play next season, at 60m if my memory serves correctly. If someone was willing to go 100m+ this year, then no way are Dortmund turning down that kind of profit.
€75m (£64.8m) next summer. Probably more like £130m this year. The competition for his signature next summer will be much tougher, though - the relative affordability of the release clause will mean that both of the Spanish giants will definitely be in, as probably will Bayern, United, Juve, Liverpool etc. Chelsea and City have an advantage this summer, in that they can feasibly afford what none of the others currently can. That advantage evaporates next year - it's now or never for Chelsea, I reckon.
 

Kentonio

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
12,163
Location
Stamford Bridge
€75m (£64.8m) next summer. Probably more like £130m this year. The competition for his signature next summer will be much tougher, though - the relative affordability of the release clause will mean that both of the Spanish giants will definitely be in, as probably will Bayern, United, Juve, Liverpool etc. Chelsea and City have an advantage this summer, in that they can feasibly afford what none of the others currently can. That advantage evaporates next year - it's now or never for Chelsea, I reckon.
Agree 100%.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
30,103
Location
Manchester
For starters Chelsea obviously aren't as big as Barca, Madrid or us, now that might not matter if you're challenging for titles like City but you're not and haven't done for 4 seasons now

It'll sound like I'm being unfairly harsh on Chelsea but right now when you read the list of clubs supposedly in for him Chelsea to me read as an insignificant footnote

Now if Chelsea were to somehow win the UCL this season then they put themselves right back in the spotlight and you might have another Hazard situation
This is fair I think.

A packed Stamford Bridge is what 40,000? Not much of a pull really either.

Bigger crowds at Newcastle and Villa.
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
4,372
Supports
Chelsea
I really can't bring myself to invest so emotionally in the top 4 race, i get it's important from a financial perspective and ofcourse i'd rather be there than not but no matter how much i try i can't bring myself to get THAT worked up about it. I feel sky/BT are trying to overadvertise it because yet again the leaders have made the rest look rubbish.

Porto this Tuesday coming is making me feel more nerves than any of the recent "big" league games combined.
 

arnie_ni

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
6,643
I really can't bring myself to invest so emotionally in the top 4 race, i get it's important from a financial perspective and ofcourse i'd rather be there than not but no matter how much i try i can't bring myself to get THAT worked up about it. I feel sky/BT are trying to overadvertise it because yet again the leaders have made the rest look rubbish.

Porto this Tuesday coming is making me feel more nerves than any of the recent "big" league games combined.
You'll not have Porto on Tuesday next season If you don't make top 4.
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
4,372
Supports
Chelsea
You'll not have Porto on Tuesday next season If you don't make top 4.
Cross that Bridge if/when we come to it, prioritizing trying to qualify for next year's CL over trying to win the one we're currently in would be wrong on so many levels.
 

Berbasbullet

Full Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
10,345
Cross that Bridge if/when we come to it, prioritizing trying to qualify for next year's CL over trying to win the one we're currently in would be wrong on so many levels.
Agree with that, people seem to think the opposite which I understand but to me seems to defy the point of being in the competition.
 

arnie_ni

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
6,643
Cross that Bridge if/when we come to it, prioritizing trying to qualify for next year's CL over trying to win the one we're currently in would be wrong on so many levels.
I'm not sure anyone said that.
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
4,372
Supports
Chelsea
Agree with that, people seem to think the opposite which I understand but to me seems to defy the point of being in the competition.
Could argue it's the best business decision but as a fan it's not something i can subscribe too. Furthermore our main core of player's are pretty young so a run to a semi/final could do wonders for their belief re competing with the best even if they had to wait another year for their next shot.

Hopefully it turns out to be moot and we can get top 4 alongside a strong CL campaign but if someone says to me now 4th and Porto beat us or 5th and a final vs Bayern (before the point we play the game) i choose the latter everytime.
 

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
5,208
Location
London
I’m so glad United aren’t part of the top four rat race.
Lose today and with some big games still to come I'll be looking nervously down the table.

That said, if we win later, I'll probably start plotting implausible scenarios where we end up pipping City for the title.
 

Counterfactual

Full Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
487
Location
Mobil Avenue station
Hopefully it turns out to be moot and we can get top 4 alongside a strong CL campaign but if someone says to me now 4th and Porto beat us or 5th and a final vs Bayern (before the point we play the game) i choose the latter everytime.
Before you play the game you still have a chance of winning the final and thereby qualifying for the next season's CL.

What if the offer on the table today was...

1: 4th and lose to Porto, getting CL football next season.
2: 5th and lose in the final to Bayern, getting Europa next season.

I think people put so much emphasis on next year's CL participation because they think it's hugely important to summer recruitment and therefore long-term progression.
 

TMDaines

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
7,506
United should be home and hosed.

Liverpool are the next most likely for me. Their fixtures are so good: basically everyone in the bottom half who is on the beach or will know their fate.

Chelsea have tough fixtures, but ultimately a set of fixtures that means they can drop a few points, yet still then take points off other rivals.

I think that will be the top four. Same as last season, same four teams, with Leicester also fifth again.