European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?


  • Total voters
    1,921
  • Poll closed .

Karel Podolsky

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You’re wrong on this count. I’m only speaking for the people I know in my country (Outside the UK) but everyone religiously watches all the matches of their teams and look forward to all of them, not just the clashes between the top teams.
Yup, I agree.
Fans love watching big matches but also love watching against smaller teams because of the higher chance of winning (we are glory hunters after all). Even would love to watch against small teams from lower divisions because there's higher chance to watch some youngsters playing which is also an exciting thing.
 

padzilla

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There is no way a European Super League won’t be a huge success and that is down to the fans. How many of us boycotted watching a World Cup because of FIFA’s proven corruption or stopped pumping money into United despite the Glazers? Very, very few if any.
 

Lay

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There is no way a European Super League won’t be a huge success and that is down to the fans. How many of us boycotted watching a World Cup because of FIFA’s proven corruption or stopped pumping money into United despite the Glazers? Very, very few if any.
Yeah. No one is boycotting shit. After a few months we will all be on the bandwagon. Fans will never turn their back on football.
 

Stacks

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What? Go away with your communist ideas! Are you antifa? ;-)
I mean I was only suggesting that MAYBE teams should be rewarded on merit and not have a monopoly on top level sports and that teams like Bournemouth should be allowed the chance to experience multiple promotion and share some of that top level cash and build up from there. Alas, I realise this is a ridiculous notion. Bring on the superleague
 

Steve 007

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Man Utd and Liverpool are making this decision for only one reason, money. It’s a sad day for football in general, we know the club only see fans as cash cows but this really takes the biscuit. The champions league in a normal season is exciting, it’s a prestigious comp and if you can win the league in the same year you are ecstatic. This is crazy and only about a TV deal.
 

RoyH1

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At this point I think this not a matter of if, but when. Unfortunately. The superclubs have maxed out their domestic income and need to hit new markets and new audiences. And the billionaire owners are betting on those "new fans" not wanting to see their superstars drawing 1-1 with the likes of Brighton Hove and Albion, Burnley, Huesca, Empoli or Freiburg.
 

SuperiorXI

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Can't see it ever happening, it's a ridiculously short sighted stupid idea that will never work long term. It will do so much damage to football it would take years to repair it.
 

BlackShark_80

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Some details of the European Super League:
  • The big clubs have already said 'yes'
  • Idea of 18 teams (not closed)
  • Euroleague / NBA format
  • Start : September 2022
  • JP Morgan, main investor
  • Permission from FIFA , No from UEFA
  • To ratify in the next Assembly
 

Amerifan

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FFP was designed to do exactly the opposite, that is to prevent the rise of any more state or oligarch backed clubs that might compete with the existing elite.
The massive clubs would be massive with or without FFP. The primary intention was to avoid clubs spending themselves into administration like the Portsmouth debacle. A secondary goal was to level the playing field somewhat by blocking massive clubs from hoarding all the talent. The primary goal has been successful. The secondary goal, as you say, not so much.

If we pulled the top four richest clubs from the PL and actually enforced FFP or a salary cap or similar, the PL would be a lot more fun for a lot more fans. Instead of avoiding relegation and the inevitable walk to mid table, every club would have something meaningful to strive for. Relegation battles would intensify because every club could conceivably be involved, unlike today where some clubs like us and arsenal and real and psg and such have too much money for relegation.
 

mark clatternburg

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Is it all our fault? Since 2016, have the rich six, (Man City and Chelsea arent “big”, they’re just moneyed up. Spurs have hardly torn up any treesin the last half a century), realising that the likes of us, Everton and Wolves are going to deprive some of them their Champions and first three losers league spots?
 

Mb194dc

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Some details of the European Super League:
  • The big clubs have already said 'yes'
  • Idea of 18 teams (not closed)
  • Euroleague / NBA format
  • Start : September 2022
  • JP Morgan, main investor
  • Permission from FIFA , No from UEFA
  • To ratify in the next Assembly
Leagues and clubs in them have TV contracts with UEFA till 2024... just for a start.

Competition is just a draft proposal and likely to create a massive sporting and legal battle between UEFA, FIFA and all the national leagues.

What about clubs that get left out?

Will the CL & EL run in parallel with this competition ?

Who will buy the TV rights to the super league and for how much ? Would fans even want to watch it ?

Plus many other questions that still need to be answered.

Chances of it getting of the ground before 2024 look slim to nil ?
 

GameOn

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It's really disgusting.

How could a system, that worked almost perfectly from the 70s to early 00s (many competitive leagues, CL qualification as huge accomplishment, not a bunch of untouchable "super-teams" etc.) go downhill so fast?
 

adexkola

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Live from the Raiders Stadium, Las Vegas, 2027

Jamie Carragher: And now, your 2027 Super League Champions, Manchester United! Joel Glazer is here to accept the CR7 trophy on behalf of the Glazer family... Joel, what a year huh?

Joel: it's been an amazing year Jamie, glad we could bring it home. Barcelona were a heck of an opponent, but after the semi-final in Tokyo and seeing the boys pull through I knew anything was possible

Jamie: I'd like to ask the fans to refrain from chanting please

Joel: go United! *raises pennant in triumph above head, hands trophy to 2 grandsons wearing Manchester United: World Champions hats*

Jamie: and now for the Super League MVP, brought to you by Bud Light, the world's best and most refreshing beer... Mason Greenwood! Mason come over here buddy

*Mason shuffles through the crowd of glazers, while the players look on in front of and below the podium*

Jamie: Mason! Your first MVP, how does it feel

Mason: it's great you know I'm bles

Jamie: and brought to you by Chevrolet, here are the keys to a brand new Impala 2020

Mason: th

Jamie: give it up for Mason! *polite applause from the players and crowd*

*kids still playing with trophy, Lingard takes a selfie behind the kids. Caption: #bigringz

Jamie: coach come over, how does this feel being your second SL trophy... Hold on, we'll be back, after this brief message from our sponsors

Man voice: is you or a loved one suffering from the emphysema? Have you bought or used RAW rolling papers? If so, you may be entitled to compe
 

Normandy

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I watch your leagues because I find your (England's) pyramid fascinating, and you have a lot of professional clubs with rich history across 5 to 6 divisions. A Championship match may not be the best of quality that Europe has to offer, but it's entertaining and proper.

I'd be concerned by the ripple effects this idea could cause for clubs not in the elusive country club of tycoon-owned ownership down the line. The pandemic is already doing damage as it is.

It makes sense for the big clubs to want this, but I personally haven't cared about the UEFA Champions League in a while. This wouldn't do anything for me, but the long-term consequences it could cause across the continent for local communities would.
 

TwoSheds

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Can you honestly see national governments giving this the ok? It's clear they're largely pretty stupid and corrupt but one of the UK, Germany, France, Italy and Spain at least is bound to say no to prevent destroying the smaller clubs - not a vote winner that.
 

kkengvib

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Live from the Raiders Stadium, Las Vegas, 2027

Jamie Carragher: And now, your 2027 Super League Champions, Manchester United! Joel Glazer is here to accept the CR7 trophy on behalf of the Glazer family... Joel, what a year huh?

Joel: it's been an amazing year Jamie, glad we could bring it home. Barcelona were a heck of an opponent, but after the semi-final in Tokyo and seeing the boys pull through I knew anything was possible

Jamie: I'd like to ask the fans to refrain from chanting please

Joel: go United! *raises pennant in triumph above head, hands trophy to 2 grandsons wearing Manchester United: World Champions hats*

Jamie: and now for the Super League MVP, brought to you by Bud Light, the world's best and most refreshing beer... Mason Greenwood! Mason come over here buddy

*Mason shuffles through the crowd of glazers, while the players look on in front of and below the podium*

Jamie: Mason! Your first MVP, how does it feel

Mason: it's great you know I'm bles

Jamie: and brought to you by Chevrolet, here are the keys to a brand new Impala 2020

Mason: th

Jamie: give it up for Mason! *polite applause from the players and crowd*

*kids still playing with trophy, Lingard takes a selfie behind the kids. Caption: #bigringz

Jamie: coach come over, how does this feel being your second SL trophy... Hold on, we'll be back, after this brief message from our sponsors

Man voice: is you or a loved one suffering from the emphysema? Have you bought or used RAW rolling papers? If so, you may be entitled to compe
:lol: brilliant!
 

tenpoless

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The more hardcore the fans, the more likely they'll hate this.

But I can see casual and neutral fans warming up to the idea for the sake of entertainment. Just like those who get all hyped up during World Cup but if you ask them why and who do they support, they will answer something like "portugal because of Ronaldo because he's handsome".
 

golden_blunder

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Maybe I missed some previous discussion, but why would the product be of significantly lower quality?

To my mind, the best comparison here is with the NFL: no promotion/relegation, just one league (no sideshows like the CL or FA Cup), and only big clubs with very few rivalries, apart from what playing in the same league gradually created. That may sound boring to football (soccer) fans, but commercially, the NFL is the most successful league in North America.

I think a European Super League would go the same way. To my mind, very few people outside the UK care to see United play Everton (to even name a fairly big club). For them, what's not to like about a roster with only the biggest clubs?

I mean, I don't like the concept and prefer the current setup (out of nostalgia?). But I absolutely can see a good financial scenario here.
I would hope that’s a small percentage of plastic fans. I really hope we’re not going down the NFL route, football would become soulless. English football is all about rivalry, the CEOs of the big 6 should remember that
 

AneRu

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Great point.

On the other hand, one can never underestimate the idiocy of money men to chase capital in the short term. Many a great, seemingly invincible company has been ruined in the past. Look at Boeing now, for example.

As for the idea itself, if there's any seriousness to it at all, then all the ex-pros and old-school club administrators (if there are any left anywhere other than at Bayern) have to come swinging against it. European football is interesting to a worldwide audience because of its history and tradition. No serious cricket fans in India for example care about the IPL with its gaudy kits, fixed teams, and trades of players. It's for teenagers and the Instagram-generation who seek quick, quick consumption of meaningless, bat-biased, every-moment-is-a-thrill spectacle. But it's not sport and it won't last on its own without the foundation of a sense of tradition.
I agree with the general direction of your post but the bolded part because I think those teenagers and the Instagram generation will form a huge part of tomorrow's population and, from a personal experience, interests in things like sport and entertainment are usually formed between the ages of 16 and 21 imo.

A European Super League will eventually kill off all the smaller teams and football in general but that's not to say it won't succeed. There are simply too many people and sponsors who will migrate with the big teams and those will be enough to sustain it in the initial stages. If Madrid, Barca, United, Bayern, Liverpool, Juve and the two Milans join up then that's that.

The bigger clubs have seen margins being eaten into by transfer fee and wage inflation but if they move away it will have a catastrophic effect on the sponsorship values the remaining clubs will attract which will mean that player fees from those clubs will plummet as a result thereby returning the margins to what they used to be.
 

Bebestation

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It doesn't make me proud that we would be competing in a European league without actually earning to get there.

Whilst that's not all completely true - a club that works there way up a league to one day compete on an European level are usually more set up to give it a go.

What happens if we are 7th in the league but have a free pass to the european league? It could work the other way where since we have a free pass to the european league that we attract better players and we do better in the league - but it all feels cheap.
 

TheLord

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I have no idea how this format works, but permanent clubs of the Super League would probably have so much more money relative to other clubs, that it will take not one but three or four Ed Woodwards running the club to not finish higher than other domestic clubs NOT playing the Super Leauge.
 

Theonas

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Maybe I missed some previous discussion, but why would the product be of significantly lower quality?

To my mind, the best comparison here is with the NFL: no promotion/relegation, just one league (no sideshows like the CL or FA Cup), and only big clubs with very few rivalries, apart from what playing in the same league gradually created. That may sound boring to football (soccer) fans, but commercially, the NFL is the most successful league in North America.

I think a European Super League would go the same way. To my mind, very few people outside the UK care to see United play Everton (to even name a fairly big club). For them, what's not to like about a roster with only the biggest clubs?

I mean, I don't like the concept and prefer the current setup (out of nostalgia?). But I absolutely can see a good financial scenario here.
Of course I might be wrong but my feelings about it is that the attraction of the product is very linked to the entire package the PL offers. Foreign fans might not be interested to watch teams outside the top 6 but the branding of the PL is very much reliant on things like hostile atmospheres at the grounds of the underdog, the perceived notion that anyone can beat anyone. Sky invested so much in the idea that a trip to the north in the winter period for the big clubs or that the battle of relegation is an essential part of the mystique and exoticism of the PL. Foreign fans might not care about these clubs individually but they are buying a product that brands itself very much around them. It's like the role of the antagonists in a TV series or movie, it might not attract the viewers on its own but without it, the antagonist's role is diluted.

The main difference to the NFL is the history and the very nature of what fans brag about. Football fans will brag about doubles and trebles. United fans everywhere will remind Liverpool about how we are the only British club to win a treble or Arsenal fans about how they went unbeaten. What constitutes success and which glory is better than your opponents is a major part of the appeal. Liverpool could sell their last 10 games last year purely on the premise that they could go unbeaten or that they could surpass City's point tally. Creating new yardsticks of glory will take a long time to establish.
 

Theonas

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As you can see from his statement, all that these CEOs/presidents care about is the financial security and benefit of their own club. That's why they shouldn't really be driving the future of the sport - same goes for Woodward or anyone else. They're in it for their own club's monetary benefit and not that of the sport.
But my point is financially, I can't see how this would be success long term. Short term, yes but in time, I think the product will be significantly diluted when you eliminate so much of what attract fans. Foreign viewers might not care about West Ham or West Brom individually but they care about the package the PL sells and takes pride in; the Goliath vs David narrative, the unpredictability of the league, the thousand little side stories that come with every PL season. Sky would not stop advertising its product in terms of how Stoke or Burnley are the plucky villains or the epicness of a Merseyside derby. They have attracted millions of paying viewers around that premise which did not even conflict with the other attraction that is the big clubs coming up against each other. It took years to build that story, killing it will require building a new one which may take years or it may never happen.
 

adexkola

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As you can see from his statement, all that these CEOs/presidents care about is the financial security and benefit of their own club. That's why they shouldn't really be driving the future of the sport - same goes for Woodward or anyone else. They're in it for their own club's monetary benefit and not that of the sport.
They're not even interested in the long term benefit of their own clubs. They can't think beyond the 1-5 year horizon. The Glazers aren't interested in anything else other than how much money they can make in a relatively short period of time, future state of the club be damned.
 

Theonas

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They're not even interested in the long term benefit of their own clubs. They can't think beyond the 1-5 year horizon. The Glazers aren't interested in anything else other than how much money they can make in a relatively short period of time, future state of the club be damned.
That's exactly my point. Owners and stakeholders have always mainly cared about what's in it for them financially. That has always been the case and always will be. Anyone thinking that there ever was a golden age of ownership is really kidding themselves. The problem here for me is that even financially, as you say, beyond the very short term, this can really be bad for them. A product that used stories and narratives built and dramatized for almost 30 years now to create a soap opera like spectacle is going to be very hard to replicate to generate the same amount of fellowship in the long run.
 

meamth

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United and Liverpool has won it all in England. Time for new challenge. Move to Madrid..
 

Hansa

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I'm naive enough to think that European fans would make their voices heard in some fashion if this thing - which chops off the top end of the pyramid for 99,9% of European clubs - becomes a reality. Sadly, the rest of the world would most likely be thrilled with this new development as it doesn't really affect them in a negative way.
 

clarkydaz

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I would hope that’s a small percentage of plastic fans. I really hope we’re not going down the NFL route, football would become soulless. English football is all about rivalry, the CEOs of the big 6 should remember that
Its the Americanisation of it that is sinister. There is one winner, the owners
 

VP89

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This is one of my biggest worries to be honest. The CL would be nothing without it, and this super league will be nothing without the most important music in football.
I want some dramatic Gladiator shit if they're replacing it.
 

Cheimoon

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I would hope that’s a small percentage of plastic fans. I really hope we’re not going down the NFL route, football would become soulless. English football is all about rivalry, the CEOs of the big 6 should remember that
I agree with that. I wouldn't say it's soulless in North America, cause it's just how things developed here. (Although I still can't get used to clubs being called 'franchises' - as much as that's actually accurate over here. They are even considering splitting the Tampa Bay Rays' home games between Tampa Bay and Montreal to make the most of two limited audience. WTF!!) But I agree that it would be a great loss to European football culture.

Of course I might be wrong but my feelings about it is that the attraction of the product is very linked to the entire package the PL offers. Foreign fans might not be interested to watch teams outside the top 6 but the branding of the PL is very much reliant on things like hostile atmospheres at the grounds of the underdog, the perceived notion that anyone can beat anyone. Sky invested so much in the idea that a trip to the north in the winter period for the big clubs or that the battle of relegation is an essential part of the mystique and exoticism of the PL. Foreign fans might not care about these clubs individually but they are buying a product that brands itself very much around them. It's like the role of the antagonists in a TV series or movie, it might not attract the viewers on its own but without it, the antagonist's role is diluted.

The main difference to the NFL is the history and the very nature of what fans brag about. Football fans will brag about doubles and trebles. United fans everywhere will remind Liverpool about how we are the only British club to win a treble or Arsenal fans about how they went unbeaten. What constitutes success and which glory is better than your opponents is a major part of the appeal. Liverpool could sell their last 10 games last year purely on the premise that they could go unbeaten or that they could surpass City's point tally. Creating new yardsticks of glory will take a long time to establish.
Yep, that's all true - but the big clubs might think people will adapt to the new reality soon enough. We'll see, I guess - but it anyway looks pretty certain to me that the big clubs will come up with something. There is too much money at stake for them to appreciate the current instability (i.e., uncertainty about CL qualification), and they are so powerful together that they can push through stuff, as UEFA can't afford losing them.

So if we will see a change to the CL format, I rather hope it will be a bit like the Nations League's tiers: clubs are rated based on performances at home and in Europe, and participation in the CL and EL depends on your rating. That would provide financial stability while allowing the current format to stay in place (national leagues plus midweek European cup leagues). Personally, though, I would also be fine personally with no change (well scrap international friendlies!), or even a reversion (to some extent) to the more limited access we had before the CL; but it looks to me that some kind of change to the benefit of the big clubs is becoming inevitable.
 

TrustInOle

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It's really disgusting.

How could a system, that worked almost perfectly from the 70s to early 00s (many competitive leagues, CL qualification as huge accomplishment, not a bunch of untouchable "super-teams" etc.) go downhill so fast?
It is. Also, one word, money.
 

hubbuh

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They're not even interested in the long term benefit of their own clubs. They can't think beyond the 1-5 year horizon. The Glazers aren't interested in anything else other than how much money they can make in a relatively short period of time, future state of the club be damned.
It's a fecking dire state of affairs.
 

711

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The massive clubs would be massive with or without FFP. The primary intention was to avoid clubs spending themselves into administration like the Portsmouth debacle. A secondary goal was to level the playing field somewhat by blocking massive clubs from hoarding all the talent. The primary goal has been successful. The secondary goal, as you say, not so much.

If we pulled the top four richest clubs from the PL and actually enforced FFP or a salary cap or similar, the PL would be a lot more fun for a lot more fans. Instead of avoiding relegation and the inevitable walk to mid table, every club would have something meaningful to strive for. Relegation battles would intensify because every club could conceivably be involved, unlike today where some clubs like us and arsenal and real and psg and such have too much money for relegation.
The existing massive clubs would indeed still be massive, they made sure of that as it was kind of the point. You are correct in terms of what their stated intention was, but very naïve if you think that was their real intention. FFP was a direct response to the rise of Chelsea, City and PSG, the big boys introduced it in order to prevent any more of the same, by hoping to make it impossible for an oligarch or state to take a smaller club and spend their way to the top, giving them more unwanted competition.

Stopping smaller clubs overspending to their detriment was probably a good thing, and importantly a good selling point for the new rules, but it was only secondary to the real aims.
 
Last edited:

Cardboard elk

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Money and commercialization is killing football. Already the new Europa league "the conference league" will start next year to shut out smaller nations even more. Maybe the large clubs can have this, then the rest of the clubs in Europe can continue their own new independent national leagues and european cups with more fair rules and economic dstribution and watch the biggest clubs rot alone inside their closed shitty new commercial league.
 

njred

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Live from the Raiders Stadium, Las Vegas, 2027

Jamie Carragher: And now, your 2027 Super League Champions, Manchester United! Joel Glazer is here to accept the CR7 trophy on behalf of the Glazer family... Joel, what a year huh?

Joel: it's been an amazing year Jamie, glad we could bring it home. Barcelona were a heck of an opponent, but after the semi-final in Tokyo and seeing the boys pull through I knew anything was possible

Jamie: I'd like to ask the fans to refrain from chanting please

Joel: go United! *raises pennant in triumph above head, hands trophy to 2 grandsons wearing Manchester United: World Champions hats*

Jamie: and now for the Super League MVP, brought to you by Bud Light, the world's best and most refreshing beer... Mason Greenwood! Mason come over here buddy

*Mason shuffles through the crowd of glazers, while the players look on in front of and below the podium*

Jamie: Mason! Your first MVP, how does it feel

Mason: it's great you know I'm bles

Jamie: and brought to you by Chevrolet, here are the keys to a brand new Impala 2020

Mason: th

Jamie: give it up for Mason! *polite applause from the players and crowd*

*kids still playing with trophy, Lingard takes a selfie behind the kids. Caption: #bigringz

Jamie: coach come over, how does this feel being your second SL trophy... Hold on, we'll be back, after this brief message from our sponsors

Man voice: is you or a loved one suffering from the emphysema? Have you bought or used RAW rolling papers? If so, you may be entitled to compe
Very good. The only thing missing is the mention of the halftime show and the obligartory “I’m going to Disney World “answer from Mason.