Total lack of respect for an absolute club legend (another Ole thread)

[Mainoldo]

2011

Thought so! Stop begging! You never lived through football pain.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I choose to believe that most of these ultra reactionary fans are posters born in the late 90s, early 2000s and don't have a relationship with the man and doesn't know any better as they're still maturing.

Dont prove me wrong Caf.

What utter condescending garbage.

I know exactly what a great player he was

And I know he’s not a great manager & we can do much better

 

[UpWithRivers]

Why cant anyone separate respect for a person and not agreeing with current actions. Like you can love your family but if they go and do some weird sht like robbing a shop you will say 'Hey thats was wrong'. Its football. Giving your opinion is part of the game. When you mess up then you get called out on it.

 

[Squeaky Bumtime]

As I said originally, if he gets top 4 on sunday, then he buys himself some time, and deserves that, but I just haven't seen progression this season.
With more additions, we need to make strides in the league next year, no excuses. Club legend or not

Progress started before the brake and continued after that. Lots of it is thanks to Bruno and its great we bought a player who slotted so easily and lifted the whole team. It's easy to see progress compared to beginning of the season. Progress plus top 4 and yes, as you say he deserves the next season.

 

[MattofManchester]

1) i'd rather argue that football is nothing without sentimentality.

Club legends, past achievements, bend it like Beckham, King Eric, Sir Alex, and then thousand more examples. Football without sentimentality is entirely pointless. Old Trafford is full of sentimentality of players past, and even managers present. You WANT your own to do well. And so you back the products of the club significantly more than you would an outsider like say, Moyes.

There's been so many posts on here recently highligting whey the gloomcrowd needs to chill a bit. It's a bit weird that none of them appear to be reading.

2) Can we say that about everyone who are negative as well? This is a pretty circular argument that goes nowhere

Fair point. I meant sentimentality from a results perspective, rather than as a whole, as it allows for a more neutral opinion when discussing whether someone is actually proving a success or not. I don't in any way mean that sentimentality be eliminated entirely, because, yes, that would take out any sort of passion for the game.

And also, yes, it's also the same, hence the first thing I'd said was that this thread seems counterproductive. This post was merely addressing this thread, but the same applies to the negative aspect as well. It's supposed to create discussions, not opportunities for slander.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Why cant anyone separate respect for a person and not agreeing with current actions. Like you can love your family but if they go and do some weird sht like robbing a shop you will say 'Hey thats was wrong'. Its football. Giving your opinion is part of the game. When you mess up then you get called out on it.

The issue I think OP is referring to is that you get called out when you do good things, in a disrespectful manner. Or make a mistake, and is called out in a disrespectful manner.

I give 10 pounds to a homeless person, and someone says "A better man would have given 20, you clueless PE teacher".
I get good grades and get into med school, and someone says "in any other year your grades wouldn't have been good enough, I can't see why you're happy. It's a sign of our society that anyone can become a doctor nowadays".
I miss a payment on my mortgage by mistake, and the bank says "you utter useless twat, we're kicking you out immediately, HAHA, we actually believed months ago that this would happen, and we were right. USELESS"

See the difference?

 

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't think it matters whether he is a club legend or not.

What's utterly bizarre is people giving him shit when we're the most in form team in the league, 3rd in the league and (as good as) in quarter finals of the Europa league and favourites to win it.

People have a right to raise issues, like the fact he could have rotated more, but there's a select few freaks that have literally spent their whole summer denigrating a man on a website. I pity them in all honesty.

 

[UpWithRivers]

The issue I think OP is referring to is that you get called out when you do good things, in a disrespectful manner. Or make a mistake, and is called out in a disrespectful manner.

I give 10 pounds to a homeless person, and someone says "A better man would have given 20, you clueless PE teacher".
I get good grades and get into med school, and someone says "in any other year your grades wouldn't have been good enough, I can't see why you're happy. It's a sign of our society that anyone can become a doctor nowadays".
I miss a payment on my mortgage by mistake, and the bank says "you utter useless twat, we're kicking you out immediately, HAHA, we actually believed months ago that this would happen, and we were right. USELESS"

See the difference?

Well in this case then yes. I agree there is no need to be a ahole about it. But just because he's a legend doesn't mean he gets immunity from criticism.

 

[Smores]

I really don't think the level of criticism is in anyway disproportionate at the moment. It's largely aimed at his recent tactical and man management mistakes.

There's a lot of posters on here especially on matchdays and i think some of you confuse severity of criticism with the number of posters joining in with critical debate. You can't say it's fine to criticise but then moan too many are doing it. Go join the hide away thread in the general if you're that sensitive.

 

[r3idy]

I don't see people going overboard with the critiques lately.

There's both positives and negatives with Ole so far.

I don't think we've made that much progress for the season as a whole(considering how poor the league is).

I just worry Ole isn't up to par for challenging for league titles vs Pep and Klopp. Every time I start thinking he may be, we start slipping in results and performances badly.

I'm not sure Pep is a fair comparison. Pretty much every club he has had a foundation of instant wealth and let's be fair about it, football men and women running it all behind the scenes. If Pep makes a mistake in the transfer market, no problem, spunk £80m on two bang average players, no problem, we will go and get two more if they don't work out and guess what you can spunk another £80m. While Barcelona ( for the most part), FC Bayern and Man City are run by football people first and foremost, United are run by accountants who see the value of Noodles and Official match sponsors of toilet roll before the actual game on the pitch. All too evident with the absurd recruitment policy pre-SAF retirement and then into the dark days of Dithering Dave.

Of course, this is always down to opinions but I actually think there is progress. If we look back at last year before Paris, we were getting results with some smash and grab football on the break but in the main,it was one dimension counter-attacking football mixed with the odd bit of brilliance and good play. Now I see us mixing it up a little more. Dominating in games a bit more.

For me getting it right off the pitch is probably more important than the instant turnaround on the pitch. We tried the safe hands with Moyes, The experienced head and big-name with LVG and we also tried the serial winner with Mou. Ultimately if you don't get it right behind the scenes then the show will fail. Ole has weeded out the non-performers, the can't be arsed's the players here for a big pay cheque with no application. Yet there is still more to do. Lingard not getting a sniff at the moment and rightly so, under the previous managers he would still be lingering around the first team. Smalling who let's be fair was never an answer to any problem, gone, Jones, can't get a sniff (personally don't believe he is THAT injured). Lukaku, good luck to him over in Italy, moved to win trophies, Irony is we could beat Inter on the way to Europa League glory and he ends up with nothing. Sanchez was pure indulgence from Woodward, gone. Again ironically to fix the problem of poor recruitment in Mikitharyan.

Then you add in the development of Williams, Greenwood and they are being managed into the team in the right way. Martial, still hit and miss but he certainly looks as good for us now than he has ever been. Rashford has added to his game and is adding elements of a playmaker in there from out wide with the nice little balls played in for the full-back to run to. Personally think that the three lads from the Academy in Williams, Greenwood and Rashford will do a lot more in their careers than the Burnage Pele over at The Etihad project (Foden)

If he is good enough to take us to consistently challenging for Premier League's and Champions leagues only time will tell. I do believe though whoever comes in will find the club in a lot better condition and position than when Ole came on board. Regarding Klopp, lets look back maybe 3 years ago and the football phone-ins were littered with calls that Klopp doesn't have a plan B and that the players were burning out, not enough quality on the bench. Not suggesting that Ole will follow that trajectory but there is certainly similarities with where Liverpool was and where we are now.

Time for a coffee

 

[Zlatan 7]

Exactly. In the other clubs the manager is to serve the club, at United , the club is to serve the manager.

Moyes took one of the biggest applause I have ever seen in football just a few weeks before he was sacked. United fans have this weird behavior of worshipping the manager. Everyone can be criticized, you can shit on players, but when it comes to the manager, hell no, saying bad words about him is absolute blasphemy. Worshipping the manager is like a high society status, a showing that you’re a better fan.

It is weird to be fair.

I think the consensus among match going fans is to support and not abuse. Right? That’s why Moyes was getting clapped and sung, we were getting beat In one match and right through the halftime sang David Moyes red army. That is support, not weird.

a thread saying that respect wouldn’t go a miss with a club legend when criticising him, because he is Not above criticism, that’s not weird.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Any player and manager will always be highly criticized, it comes with the territory, especially at United. Ole knows this and says it all the time.

However, there is disrespect lobbed towards him and also a certain lack of support. Let's be real, this isn't a title winning team and that's what he will ultimately be judged against. He's being judged against Klopp and Pep. Title winning managers who have been in the job longer than Ole, who have been financially supported more than Ole, and whose clubs have identified, signed, and developed better players.

City is Pep's team through and through. Yet City have lost 9 times in 37 matches...United have lost 8 in 37 matches. Yet Ole has done a very good job of clearing out players and upgraded three positions in RB, CB, and creative midfielder/CAM that have been ignored by the club and previous managers for at least, at least five years. Liverpool signed Allison, VvD, Robertson, Fabinho, developed a class RB under Klopp...half of his starting XI. Ole has signed 3 players in his starting XI and is developing Rashford, Martial, and Greenwood.

So the point is, you can still be critical of Ole and any United manager, but so many of the criticisms are so uninformed and lack so much context that it's down right insulting and disrespectful.

Agree with all that, good post

 

[Tom Cato]

Thought so! Stop begging! You never lived through football pain.

Was hoping you'd compliment me on my grammar seeing as I'm 9 years old, but beggars can't be choosers.

 

[Smithy89]

So he's just exempt from criticism because what he did as a player?

 

[Tom Cato]

What utter condescending garbage.

I know exactly what a great player he was

And I know he’s not a great manager & we can do much better

Havent i replied to some of your posts in the past? I respectfully decline the notion that you know what you think you do.

 

[Tom Cato]

So he's just exempt from criticism because what he did as a player?

That's not what OP suggests at all.

There is a difference between criticism, and the reactionary howling that goes on every time we don't win convincingly.

 

[Mainoldo]

Was hoping you'd compliment me on my grammar seeing as I'm 9 years old, but beggars can't be choosers.

Kids are using iPads at 5. I wasn’t impressed to be honest.

 

[cyberman]

I'm struggling to see your point?
Would I back a manager resigning retired players while making a title challenge? yes

Ive seen too many posts on here that uses future, worst possible results that hasnt even happened and askrd us to judge him as a manager. Now its a post rewriting history and asking to judge him.
It doesnt make sense. Its inserting goalposts about scenarios hat hasnt happened because results we can criticise him for and fee and far between these days
The truth is, we can't judge him until Monday morning. He has taken us from a hopeless position with zero attack threat to a side that has one of the most deadly atracks in Europe.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Havent i replied to some of your posts in the past? I respectfully decline the notion that you know what you think you do.

I also respectfully decline the notion that you know what you think you do

 

[Leethal]

So he's just exempt from criticism because what he did as a player?

I'm sure I've said it more times, but I quoted myself for your ease of reading, as in your furious smashing of the "reply" button, you didn't notice.

Absolutely not above criticism. I have no issue with the criticism, but the way that it's dished out is ridiculous at best.

The man isn't infallible, yet he certainly isn't a total failure, as some would have you believe.

Agree with you on all points.

I also don't think he should get a pass. I just think it's a piss-take that whenever we have a bad result, everyone just starts slagging him off and completely discounting all of the good that he's done since his appointment.

He isn't like Messi to Barcelona? Sure, he's not the player that Messi is/was, but the commitment levels and dedication to their club are both undoubtedly of the same level - if not more.

It's not about scrutiny. It's about the band-wagon supporters jumping at any opportunity to have a pop at a club legend, when it's mostly unfounded. Are people completely fecking oblivious to all the positive things he's brought to the club? And the progress we've been making? Or does that just go ignored, every time we draw/lose a match?

It's weird?

It's called supporting a club and showing a level of respect to a player/manager that has given his all to this club. I don't give a shit what you, or anyone else thinks - Through his actions, Ole deserves at least to be respected. Scrutiny and criticism of his level of management is fine, (and to be expected), but it's the unwarranted attacks that can honestly feck right off.

Like I said earlier: If Ole feels he isn't up to the job and can't offer anything more, he will be the first one to hold his hand up and vacate his desk. He won't need sacking. He loves the club too much.

 

[Leonzo1]

Ole is doing a fantastic job so far moving us in the right direction, good recruitment and man management. I believe he will stay for another season and hopefully during that time we continue to improve but eventually he will leave by mutual agreement and hand the project over to a more suitable manager to take us the extra mile to title winners.

 

[Flexdegea]

I'm sick of it.

More or less every thread I open, people are openly having pops at Solskjaer. It's incessant. And frankly, embarrassing.

This man has given more-or-less his entire fecking life to this club. Never ONCE has he put Ole first. It's always been the club.

He came to the club as a player, spent the majority of his time on the bench, (despite having outstanding performances week-in, week-out), and he could easily have moved on to another club, like Tottenham, where he was a nailed on starter with a larger earning capacity. Instead, he stuck around and gave his all - knowing full well he was always going to be a substitute. He loved the club.

He came into the job as manager with the club at the lowest state it's been in in some 25+ years. He never knew he was going to be permanent manger; he came in to "help"- which is what Ole does and always has done for this club. When he arrived, from top to bottom, the club fecking stunk. The players didn't want to be here, gave half arse performances, the football was terrible to watch, the club was in total disarray with it's player acquisitions, and we were in free-fall. Despite all of this, Ole came in, steadied the ship, completely reversed the culture within the club, bought "United" players, promoted youth, and restructured the club to how it was in our most successful era.

It's a rebuilding process. Get the culture right within, and the football will follow. Only a complete idiot can say that we haven't progressed this season. The level of entitlement on this forum is ridiculous. He's been here a season and a half, and in that time we have progressed massively.We have people on this forum calling him an "idiot", and wanting us to bring in their new manager of the month flavour. Jose and Van Gaal were two of the most successful and decorated managers prior to joining us - how did they fare? We've seen tangible progress with Solskjaer - which is more than I can say for his predecessors - and look at the state of the club when he received it relative to Jose, LVG and Moyes. But let's just change the manager and roll the dice on an unproven Manchester United manager yet again?

We're moving in the right direction. Give the man a fecking break.

100%


Lot of people have bottled it and cant keep their emotions in check. Its pathetic.


Club legend, clearly showing progression, done a great job getting us up the table and now some folk are focusing on hindsight points and the apparently better toys out there.

 

[Leethal]

Ole is doing a fantastic job so far moving us in the right direction, good recruitment and man management. I believe he will stay for another season and hopefully during that time we continue to improve but eventually he will leave by mutual agreement and hand the project over to a more suitable manager to take us the extra mile to title winners.

Yep, and that's fine. If Ole reaches his management ceiling, he will walk and the person that comes in will find the club in the best state it's been in post-Fergie era. Actually, probably in better shape. Despite us winning the league in Fergie's last season the team he left Moyes was a bit shit, (which validates the importance of Fergie and just how good he was), with many players in decline or ready to call it a day.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I'm sure I've said it more times, but I quoted myself for your ease of reading, as in your furious smashing of the "reply" button, you didn't notice.

Ole isn’t going to quit if he thinks he’s not good enough...he’s been given the biggest job in England & one of the most famous in the world. Why should he quit- he’ll believe he can do it until we sack him

 

[RashysTekkers]

Ole isn’t going to quit if he thinks he’s not good enough...he’s been given the biggest job in England & one of the most famous in the world. Why should he quit- he’ll believe he can do it until we sack him

You sure know a lot about how Ole's mind works eh

 

[arthurka]

Any player and manager will always be highly criticized, it comes with the territory, especially at United. Ole knows this and says it all the time.

However, there is disrespect lobbed towards him and also a certain lack of support. Let's be real, this isn't a title winning team and that's what he will ultimately be judged against. He's being judged against Klopp and Pep. Title winning managers who have been in the job longer than Ole, who have been financially supported more than Ole, and whose clubs have identified, signed, and developed better players.

City is Pep's team through and through. Yet City have lost 9 times in 37 matches...United have lost 8 in 37 matches. Yet Ole has done a very good job of clearing out players and upgraded three positions in RB, CB, and creative midfielder/CAM that have been ignored by the club and previous managers for at least, at least five years. Liverpool signed Allison, VvD, Robertson, Fabinho, developed a class RB under Klopp...half of his starting XI. Ole has signed 3 players in his starting XI and is developing Rashford, Martial, and Greenwood.

So the point is, you can still be critical of Ole and any United manager, but so many of the criticisms are so uninformed and lack so much context that it's down right insulting and disrespectful.

This..
Anyone that can't see we are slowly but surely going in the right direction doesn't want to see the positive signs.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

This..
Anyone that can't see we are slowly but surely going in the right direction doesn't want to see the positive signs.

I think you don’t want to look at the realistic signs.

He had an awful awful start to the season, picked up from Jan with Bruno playing amazing & upping everyone else’s game.

Bruno off the boil= no good performances anymore.

Ole relies way way too much on the individual brilliance of our good players (Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Greenwood lately) Rather than just tactical brilliance & having us dictating games .

Our last few games have been absolute rubbish with no plan from the manager (as he relies on individuals to win us games) & seen us not dictate or dominate games against Southampton & West Ham (& look sloppy & shakwy against Bournemouth) not mentioning the embarrassing Chelsea loss.

So please don’t try to say it’s all rosey, it most certainly isn’t & we should demand a better manager just like we expect our team to improve with better new players, why don’t we want the best manager we can get??

 

[Gehrman]

The scrutiny comes with the job. He left Molde FFS to have a go at his dream job and is probably paid 100 times as much.

 

[Leethal]

Ole isn’t going to quit if he thinks he’s not good enough...he’s been given the biggest job in England & one of the most famous in the world. Why should he quit- he’ll believe he can do it until we sack him

Yes, as proven by his track record, he's always put himself first before the club.....

 

[okLaptop1]

People venting or going overboard this soon after a bad performance is fine. After a good performance it's possible that people overpraise him too, it is what it is.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I really don't think the level of criticism is in anyway disproportionate at the moment. It's largely aimed at his recent tactical and man management mistakes.

There's a lot of posters on here especially on matchdays and i think some of you confuse severity of criticism with the number of posters joining in with critical debate. You can't say it's fine to criticise but then moan too many are doing it. Go join the hide away thread in the general if you're that sensitive.

In your opinion

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I think you don’t want to look at the realistic signs.

He had an awful awful start to the season, picked up from Jan with Bruno playing amazing & upping everyone else’s game.

Bruno off the boil= no good performances anymore.

Ole relies way way too much on the individual brilliance of our good players (Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Greenwood lately) Rather than just tactical brilliance & having us dictating games .

Our last few games have been absolute rubbish with no plan from the manager (as he relies on individuals to win us games) & seen us not dictate or dominate games against Southampton & West Ham (& look sloppy & shakwy against Bournemouth) not mentioning the embarrassing Chelsea loss.

So please don’t try to say it’s all rosey, it most certainly isn’t & we should demand a better manager just like we expect our team to improve with better new players, why don’t we want the best manager we can get??

Please take this to the "Would you sack Ole" thread.

 

[Leethal]

I think you don’t want to look at the realistic signs.

He had an awful awful start to the season, picked up from Jan with Bruno playing amazing & upping everyone else’s game.

Bruno off the boil= no good performances anymore.

Ole relies way way too much on the individual brilliance of our good players (Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Greenwood lately) Rather than just tactical brilliance & having us dictating games .

Our last few games have been absolute rubbish with no plan from the manager (as he relies on individuals to win us games) & seen us not dictate or dominate games against Southampton & West Ham (& look sloppy & shakwy against Bournemouth) not mentioning the embarrassing Chelsea loss.

So please don’t try to say it’s all rosey, it most certainly isn’t & we should demand a better manager just like we expect our team to improve with better new players, why don’t we want the best manager we can get??

This season, don't we have the best record, (except maybe Liverpool), against the so-called traditional top teams?

Fluke? Surely it can't be because, you know, we outplayed them - because as you've already said, Ole is clueless tactically and relies on individual player brilliance to win matches. (Which, incidentally, is why you recruit players that are individually brilliant -- to win matches)

You have an agenda that isn't based on facts or statistics. Get over it.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

it's not an internet culture either, you rarely see a bad word being said about Ole on this forum too. You have a few posters who do it often but they don't represent the fanbase or the internet.

Twitter is a lot of abusive stuff...

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

OP sounds like a right softy.

Anyone managing Manchester United will face a high level of scrutiny, be it Dennis Law, Bryan Robson or OGS. Being a club legend doesn’t get you a free pass, just as it didn’t for Souness or Dalglish in his second Liverpool stint.

Stop being a mard arse.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

This season, don't we have the best record, (except maybe Liverpool), against the so-called traditional top teams?

Fluke? Surely it can't be because, you know, we outplayed them - because as you've already said, Ole is clueless tactically and relies on individual player brilliance to win matches. (Which, incidentally, is why you recruit players that are individually brilliant -- to win matches)

You have an agenda that isn't based on facts or statistics. Get over it.

We definitely haven’t outplayed any top team. LVG did when we smashed Liverpool 3-0 at Anfield & Man City at home. Ole hasn’t outplayed them.

I get you think Ole is a great manager. I think he’s average & we can do much much better

 

[Siorac]

We definitely haven’t outplayed any top team. LVG did when we smashed Liverpool 3-0 at Anfield & Man City at home. Ole hasn’t outplayed them.

I get you think Ole is a great manager. I think he’s average & we can do much much better

That never happened though, you're conflating different games here.

 

[JPRouve]

Twitter is a lot of abusive stuff...

Twitter is full of trolls that aren't even necessarily United fans or express their honest opinions. If that's your issue then you can extend it to everything and everyone discussed on Twitter.

 

[Leethal]

OP sounds like a right softy.

Anyone managing Manchester United will face a high level of scrutiny, be it Dennis Law, Bryan Robson or OGS. Being a club legend doesn’t get you a free pass, just as it didn’t for Souness or Dalglish in his second Liverpool stint.

Stop being a mard arse.

You know, if you'd actually read this thread, you'd see that MULTIPLE times I've said he doesn't get a free pass and isn't free from criticism. It's the way he's criticised that pisses me off.

So stick your "softy" up your arse, and learn to read; instead of blindly replying.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You know, if you'd actually read this thread, you'd see that MULTIPLE times I've said he doesn't get a free pass and isn't free from criticism. It's the way he's criticised that pisses me off.

So stick your "softy" up your arse, and learn to read; instead of blindly replying.

Ahhhh, so it’s the way he’s criticised,
as though that matters at all on an internet forum. Hurts your feelings does it?
fecking mard arse.