Total lack of respect for an absolute club legend (another Ole thread)

Zlatan 7

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I’m saying we NEVER dominated Liverpool even when they were worse than ‘14 side.

That’s the only time under LVG that I remember us totally controlling the game & playing them off the park. How about the City team we beat 3-0 then? Will you give a list of names of their team? Thought not...
So what’s your point? Ole is shit because he didn’t dominate Liverpool away from home? The fact he dominated city away from Home This season doesn’t count though?
 

Rafaeldagold

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Maybe you should a bit of research before making broad generalisations?
We dominated that game every bit as the Juanfield game.
That is utter nonsense.

Are you talking about the game we beat City 1-0 but still went out on away goals? With 36% possession...yes that’s as good as the Juanfield game. Deary me
 

Red Company

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Come on, Ole got to spend 200m already, should we get Sancho you can add 100m on top of that. Thats 300m in one and a half season, don't pretend he's operating on a shoestring
300m is nothing when we had to completely rebuild our team. Not only were we missing key parts of the core but the backup for the core is incompetent too.

We are still another 300m away from having a fully capable squad that is competent enough to challenge on all fronts.

We still need replacements for:
Matic, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Dalot + a CB, and a striker once Ighalo goes.
And all these outgoings plus Jones/Rojo/Smalling/Sanchez will hardly help offset the net spend. They’re all on average 0-10m players that will be a headache to move on.

Once we get rid of all these players we’ll also have to get rid of, and replace, one of Lindelof/Bailly and one or both of Fred & McT depending on how they perform next season.

So yeah we’re still miles away from being a steady title challenger. Had we brought in Ole when all our team needed was 300m to start challenging then your argument would make sense. But at the moment it’s baseless. Just put yourself in the managers shoes and let’s say you took over right when Ole took over and you looked at the squad and thought damn we need to completely overhaul the majority of this squad In the next 1-3 years. Would you honestly be contempt with 300m and that too in today’s market when all it’s really gotten you so far, or should I add, will get you, since your reference of 300m also included Sancho’s acquisition which hasn’t even happened yet? Sure you might have spent the Maguire money better, but the rest of the new signings cost a fair sum. And look how many signings that 300m has actually gotten you WHILE also having lost just as many players. Not like you got to spend the 300m without having to lose anyone else? So again, I say, your argument is baseless.
 
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romufc

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Come on, Ole got to spend 200m already, should we get Sancho you can add 100m on top of that. Thats 300m in one and a half season, don't pretend he's operating on a shoestring
The narrative is brilliant. Because you are so determined to go down this route. Since Ole spent £200m, what does the league table look like?
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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I don't see people going overboard with the critiques lately.

There's both positives and negatives with Ole so far.

I don't think we've made that much progress for the season as a whole(considering how poor the league is).

I just worry Ole isn't up to par for challenging for league titles vs Pep and Klopp. Every time I start thinking he may be, we start slipping in results and performances badly.
Agree with this...I think most supporters are behind him...There’s an opinion poll on another thread where 75 percent of the supporters want Ole to stay.I still have my doubts about his ability as a manager....I”m not sure if he can take us back to the top,but if we finish in the top 4,then he certainly deserves to stay for atleast another season...
 

VivaObertan

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Fully agree with the OP however the people in this thread who are quick to criticise Ole are also the people who were quick to criticise Jose and van Gaal. They're just cynical people in general.

For me there's a clear difference in perspective between the view of the global support base (i.e. this forum) and fans of the club since birth, either from geography or family. (A subset of this forum.)
 

Rafaeldagold

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Fully agree with the OP however the people in this thread who are quick to criticise Ole are also the people who were quick to criticise Jose and van Gaal. They're just cynical people in general.

For me there's a clear difference in perspective between the view of the global support base (i.e. this forum) and fans of the club since birth, either from geography or family. (A subset of this forum.)
Nope wrong. I wanted LVG to stay, but the fans turned in him for one bad December. Ole gets a bad 6 months though.

And the second part is just ridiculous
 

Shamana

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Fully agree with the OP however the people in this thread who are quick to criticise Ole are also the people who were quick to criticise Jose and van Gaal. They're just cynical people in general.

For me there's a clear difference in perspective between the view of the global support base (i.e. this forum) and fans of the club since birth, either from geography or family. (A subset of this forum.)
Maybe we've been critizing the managers because we went from being the best dominant team in England and a European great Club to being absolutely bang average and breaking negative records every year. Man Utd managers have it far easier than at any other big club because we have sentimal attachments to managers because we had SAF for 26 years.
 

VivaObertan

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Nope wrong. I wanted LVG to stay, but the fans turned in him for one bad December. Ole gets a bad 6 months though.

And the second part is just ridiculous
Okay, explain why you think it's ridiculous please so we can discuss rather than just dismissing my perspective.

Also, Ole is doing an amazing job at United. We've shifted 10 or so first team players from the squad and replaced them with much hungrier players that compliment the team we want to be. After a season that was hampered by injuries to all our key players we've gone on our most impressive premiership run post-Ferguson and now we're a game away from finishing the league in 3rd place, as FA Cup semi-finalists with a Europa League still to play for. If we have a transfer window akin to last year's, this squad will challenge under Ole next year.
 

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
Well our fanbase has a tendency to put a "Plastic fan" label on others pretty quick. That's what I've noticed. Worshipping our manager despite the result, while may sound weird, is one of the "Top Red" signs. It's neither good nor bad, just a distinct characteristic of our fanbase culture.

To the OP, you are sick with the total lack of respect for our manager who is a legend. But I myself is also sick of the disrespect towards our old legend Roy Keane, Gary Neville, Paul Scholes... Our own fans tell them to "shut up" and have a weird dig about their managerial career when they dare to criticize any United players or managers, despite what they have contributed to this club.
Good post.
 

Ole90+3

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I don't think I've seen a personal attack on Ole on this forum for a long time. Like one poster said, a lot of Ole fans get very precious about the club's manager.

PS I don't go in the match day thread. If you are referring to posts made in there then that's your problem right there.
 

Strelok

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The narrative is brilliant. Because you are so determined to go down this route. Since Ole spent £200m, what does the league table look like?
Our net transfer spend going into this season was £60m mate. If you count the loss of Herrera then it's probably £30m. We were 5th.

Plus the £47m (adds on up to £67.6m) for Bruno so the total would be £107m. We don't pay the adds on yet. Now we're 3rd.
 

cyberman

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That is utter nonsense.

Are you talking about the game we beat City 1-0 but still went out on away goals? With 36% possession...yes that’s as good as the Juanfield game. Deary me
We beat them 2-1 in December
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50611309
Keane called it a proper Man Utd performance.
I suppose hes wrong as well?
Its quite telling that we have so many victories v top sides thst you got confused as to what game im referencing.
 

VivaObertan

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Maybe we've been critizing the managers because we went from being the best dominant team in England and a European great Club to being absolutely bang average and breaking negative records every year. Man Utd managers have it far easier than at any other big club because we have sentimal attachments to managers because we had SAF for 26 years.
So you're being critical because we're being sentimental due to our past, but you want to criticise without context BECAUSE of our past? That's a little contradictory.

Our current squad contains one player (Jones is AWOL and Smalling will leave this summer) that was present in SAF's final season, it's fair to say we're a different team from then.

I was going to ask some rhetorical questions but rather than that I'll just get to the point, what's your problem with Ole?
 

romufc

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Our net transfer spend going into this season was £60m mate. If you count the loss of Herrera then it's probably £30m. We were 5th.

Plus the £47m (adds on up to £67.6m) for Bruno so the total would be £107m. We don't pay the adds on yet. Now we're 3rd.
Yeah, I know but that doesnt fit with some fans narrative. So, using their narrative of when we spent £200m which is end of Jan, have a look at the table since then.
 

Red Company

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I'm sick of it.

More or less every thread I open, people are openly having pops at Solskjaer. It's incessant. And frankly, embarrassing.

This man has given more-or-less his entire fecking life to this club. Never ONCE has he put Ole first. It's always been the club.

He came to the club as a player, spent the majority of his time on the bench, (despite having outstanding performances week-in, week-out), and he could easily have moved on to another club, like Tottenham, where he was a nailed on starter with a larger earning capacity. Instead, he stuck around and gave his all - knowing full well he was always going to be a substitute. He loved the club.

He came into the job as manager with the club at the lowest state it's been in in some 25+ years. He never knew he was going to be permanent manger; he came in to "help"- which is what Ole does and always has done for this club. When he arrived, from top to bottom, the club fecking stunk. The players didn't want to be here, gave half arse performances, the football was terrible to watch, the club was in total disarray with it's player acquisitions, and we were in free-fall. Despite all of this, Ole came in, steadied the ship, completely reversed the culture within the club, bought "United" players, promoted youth, and restructured the club to how it was in our most successful era.

It's a rebuilding process. Get the culture right within, and the football will follow. Only a complete idiot can say that we haven't progressed this season. The level of entitlement on this forum is ridiculous. He's been here a season and a half, and in that time we have progressed massively.We have people on this forum calling him an "idiot", and wanting us to bring in their new manager of the month flavour. Jose and Van Gaal were two of the most successful and decorated managers prior to joining us - how did they fare? We've seen tangible progress with Solskjaer - which is more than I can say for his predecessors - and look at the state of the club when he received it relative to Jose, LVG and Moyes. But let's just change the manager and roll the dice on an unproven Manchester United manager yet again?

We're moving in the right direction. Give the man a fecking break.
Spot on!

I also don’t agree with people that you’re sounding sentimental. I think it’s high time someone called out the impatient and rude posters on here who think criticizing with harsh words will enforce their point of view on other posters and if they’re called out it’s unfair. There’s obvious room for improvement for Ole but he had a massive job on his hands and he’s only just getting started now. When he at least has a decent starting 11 to put forward. Now comes the second phase.

The best part is that Ole will not be going anywhere anytime soon, and all these posters using foul words to refer to him will just have to wait and watch him take his time. At least for another season.

No manager should get a pass because he is a club legend.

My issue with the criticism is that I think a lot of it comes from the cumulative anger/disappointment of 7 years of under performing .

This is easily the most hopeful I have been since it was clear Moyes was a disaster a few months after he took over... Squad looks like its shaping up nicely.. no stupid buys.. Players coming through the ranks.. Scoring goals.. we had gone years without scoring 5 in a game.. we have done that nearly 10 times under Ole.

He is an easy target because he isnt a big name .. Jose and Van Gaal was rubbish.. Jose had a few good months.. and even that was largely while playing some turgid football.

I am happy to wait and see how far Ole can take us in the right direction.. and if he hits a ceiling at some point, we can consider someone else.. But to demand instant success after years of garbage is absurd and unrealistic.
Great post. Spot on! Specially the bolded part!

Any player and manager will always be highly criticized, it comes with the territory, especially at United. Ole knows this and says it all the time.

However, there is disrespect lobbed towards him and also a certain lack of support. Let's be real, this isn't a title winning team and that's what he will ultimately be judged against. He's being judged against Klopp and Pep. Title winning managers who have been in the job longer than Ole, who have been financially supported more than Ole, and whose clubs have identified, signed, and developed better players.

City is Pep's team through and through. Yet City have lost 9 times in 37 matches...United have lost 8 in 37 matches. Yet Ole has done a very good job of clearing out players and upgraded three positions in RB, CB, and creative midfielder/CAM that have been ignored by the club and previous managers for at least, at least five years. Liverpool signed Allison, VvD, Robertson, Fabinho, developed a class RB under Klopp...half of his starting XI. Ole has signed 3 players in his starting XI and is developing Rashford, Martial, and Greenwood.

So the point is, you can still be critical of Ole and any United manager, but so many of the criticisms are so uninformed and lack so much context that it's down right insulting and disrespectful.
Spot on!
 

sparx99

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You see I don’t mind people seeing the positives. I can see the positives. It’s just the lack of fare threatment because of who he is. It’s also the reason why a lot of people didn’t want Giggs in charge. Only difference is Ole to the fans is a more likeable guy than Giggs so it’s even worse.

But as you mentioned he has done all them things. He’s also doing a lot of things wrong which a top level manager wouldn’t do. It’s fare less risky to get a top level manager than to expect Ole to improve.
That’s maybe fair. My feeling is that Ole has necessarily rebuilt the culture at the club. If we were to move on from him say after next season then the new manager would have to accept working within that culture. When people have cried out for DOF I think a lot of that has been because we need a structure that outlasts any one manager.

Also, top level managers are such a difficult thing to identify. By any measure Mourinho was a top level coach but he’s clearly not been the same the last few years. Other flavours of the month like Rose, Nagelsmann and Poch haven’t achieved any more than Ole has. Ancelotti has gradually been getting worse jobs. Zidane has only worked at Madrid. Just look at Barcelona and Bayern for how hard it is to get the coach right at top clubs.
 

RedSky

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Im asking why is it always 1000 excuses with Ole. Just judge his managerial performance we don’t need to know about his trials and tribulations. Every manager has them.
It's bollocks though, he just went on a 19 game unbeaten run in all comps which is very, very rare to do as a manager and you still jump on him immediately. We're currently on a 13 league game unbeaten streak too, again there's all this negativity.

He doesn;t need excuses because for the past several months things are clicking and working. Thats not just a purple patch (the excuse handed out by people being negative) it's a long run of form stretching months.
 

sparx99

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Because they are tired? West Ham didn’t look tired. Chelsea who we played on Sunday was full of energy on Wednesday. Why?
West Ham haven’t played an FA Cup QF and FA Cup semi final. Two less games in a tight schedule. Plus they played Friday whereas we played Thursday and Sunday.

Chelsea have played Sar-Tue-Sun-Wed which is a normal schedule compared to us playing Mon-Thur-Sun-Wed. Not to mention the travel we had last week with going to London got Palace and then back to Manchester then back to London for the cup. We had 4 games in 10 days and they had 4 in 12.

It’s also not just physical tiredness. It’s mental fatigue. It’s not having any training ground time to work on tactics for each opposition.
 

Red Company

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Maybe we've been critizing the managers because we went from being the best dominant team in England and a European great Club to being absolutely bang average and breaking negative records every year. Man Utd managers have it far easier than at any other big club because we have sentimal attachments to managers because we had SAF for 26 years.
Baseless statement. None of the managers since SAF have had it easy.

Moyes didn’t even last a full season in his first year with the club. The football played was horrible.

LvG lasted bang on two years and he was let go even though we won FA cup. The football played was horrible again.

Mourinho was the one who lasted the most so far and even that was only 2.5 years and thank God, rightly so. He was let go even though he got us EL trophy and a 2nd spot, best ranking since SAF left. The football played was horrible yet again.

So like I said, your argument is incorrect. None of our managers have had it easy.

As for your statement about sentiments attached, this isn’t a movie for crying out loud. Sentiments is not the reason a club legend has been given all this time at our club. He has been earning his time since he has come. First fixed the culture while improving our style of play, then fixed player acquisitions by finally signing players not driven by money for once, and now fixing the squad up.
All of these things take time and don’t happen overnight. Even Pep inherited a team full of stars and yet had to get rid of a bunch of players as they just couldn’t play his style of football. Even now with all his acquisitions, hasn’t won the CL yet.

The word sentiment shouldn’t even be used at all. The word to be used is identity. We are trying to let a guy like Ole have a chance not because he’s related to SAF and hence why there’s sentimental attachment but because he too, like SAF, is trying to make this club follow its own identity while going back to the top.
 
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Shamana

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So you're being critical because we're being sentimental due to our past, but you want to criticise without context BECAUSE of our past? That's a little contradictory.

Our current squad contains one player (Jones is AWOL and Smalling will leave this summer) that was present in SAF's final season, it's fair to say we're a different team from then.

I was going to ask some rhetorical questions but rather than that I'll just get to the point, what's your problem with Ole?
I don't actually have a problem with Ole apart from our points tally being wank. I think LVG, Moyes and Mourinho deserved all the stick that they got. I think Ole has done a decent job of refreshing our squad and I hope it will translate into results and from next season. Overall at United we are overly critical of managers. At other big club clubs it completely normal to fire managers when they don't meet expectations while at United it's considered almost a sin.
 

Kill 'em all

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Being a club legend doesn't make him immune to criticism. Right now he's being judged on what he delivers as a manager and not what he did for us as a player. We shouldn't be more lenient just because of his status with the fans.
 

Shamana

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Baseless statement. None of the managers since SAF have had it easy.

Moyes didn’t even last a full season in his first year with the club. The football played was horrible.

LvG lasted bang on two years and he was let go even though we won FA cup. The football played was horrible again.

Mourinho was the one who lasted the most so far and even that was only 2.5 years and thank God, rightly so. He was let go even though he got us EL trophy and a 2nd spot, best ranking since SAF left. The football played was horrible yet again.

So like I said, your argument is incorrect. None of our managers have had it easy.

As for your statement about sentiments attached, this isn’t a movie for crying out loud. Sentiments is not the reason a club legend has been given all this time at our club. He has been earning his time since he has come. First fixed the culture while improving our style of play, then fixed player acquisitions by finally signing players not driven by money for once, and now fixing the squad up.
All of these things take time and don’t happen overnight. Even Pep inherited a team full of stars and yet had to get rid of a bunch of players as they just couldn’t play his style of football. Even now with all his acquisitions, hasn’t won the CL yet.

The word sentiment shouldn’t even be used at all. The word to be used is identity. We are trying to let a guy like Ole have a chance not because he’s related to SAF and hence why there’s sentimental attachment but because he too, like SAF, is trying to make this club follow its own identity while going back to the top.
All those managers apart from Moyes spent a fortune and played terrible football, built mediocre squads, exploded the wage bill, was backed by the fans untill they hit the point of no return and was sacked. They didn't get a tough treatment compared to any other big club. Both Moyes and Mourinho should have been sacked way earlier than they was. Arguably we should have sacked LVG to get Klopp as well.

I back Ole going into the next season btw.
 
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James Peril

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How was Klopp faring when he joined Liverpool? How did Liverpool look 18 months into Klopp's tenure?

Pep is another case: He inherited a star studded team, with an open check book. It's completely unfair to compare any manager to Pep. Pep wasn't happy with his full backs? So I think they spent something stupid like 100-150m on full backs since Pep joined.
I feel you are a bit naive in your opening post, this one underlines it even further. The mere fact that OGS is a legend gave him the job, there are numerous more managers with higher qualifications left out of it. The nepotism gave him a job he should not have gotten and he earns millions each year to deal with the criticism. So no, I would say he deserves exactly the same scrutiny as every other manager or even more.

And please don’t bring Klopp and Liverpool into this. Klopp had a resumé and basically all big clubs in the world drooling for him, Solskjær would never get a new job in the PL except for United. And after he leaves us, no club will call him before he goes back to Norway. Furthermore, Liverpool and Manchester United cirka 2015 cannot be compared for obvious reasons.

Give it a rest, his status counts for very little and there is no room for sentiment in the situation we find ourselves in. Manchester United is an institution in a global, billion dollar industry, the top job cannot be given to an amateur in the grand scheme of things whilst giving him a free pass. The world of business certainly does not work like this, we’re not a mom and pop cornershop in some forgotten town.
 

Red Company

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All those managers apart from Moyes spent a fortune and played terrible football, built mediocre squads, exploded the wage bill, was backed by the fans untill they hit the point of no return and was sacked. They didn't get a tough treatment compared to any other big club. Both Moyes and Mourinho should have been sacked way earlier than they was. Arguably we should have sacked LVG to get Klopp as well.
You’re contradicting yourself...

They did get a tough treatment or they would’ve lasted longer no?
 

Shamana

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You’re contradicting yourself...

They did get a tough treatment or they would’ve lasted longer no?
At Real Madrid they would have flee to stadium not to be murdered by the fans. Valverde was sacked after 2 la liga's in a row, making the CL semi final the season before and sitting on top of the La liga table. It's not a rough treatment to be fired when you are breaking negative records while having spents fortunes in transfers and wages. That's fair treatment at least.

Imagine Moyes sitting 7th in the table at the end of season with Real Madrid trying to excuse his performance in spanish.
 

Strelok

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I don't understand the narrative of Ole got his job just because he's a legend. Why we didn't give the job to Kean, to Neville?

And he was appointed only as a caretaker to fire fight the mess Jose left behind. He had to earn his permanent position thanks to his good results. Let's not forget that.
 

Manutd GOGOGO

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This forum is nothing different from every other forum. I see all the managers getting blamed for every little thing. Chelsea, Man City, Leicester and etc...

The sentiment is worst after every draw and lost matches. It's the same everywhere.
 

Leethal

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Being a club legend doesn't make him immune to criticism. Right now he's being judged on what he delivers as a manager and not what he did for us as a player. We shouldn't be more lenient just because of his status with the fans.
Except he's not.

Because if that was the case, he'd be lavished with praise, not the bile being spewed out on here.

He's done an astounding job, considering the absolute shite that he walked in to.

- Are we playing better brand of football?

- Have we made impactful signings?

- Have we moved on a good portion of the dross?

- Has he improved players?

- Has he stuck to United's core values in promoting academy and youth players?

- Has he improved the morale and mood in the change room?


He's done all of the above, in 18 months, after being handed the worst possible United team/culture/climate in 30 years.



Sure, he might have a tactical ceiling. But regardless of what happens, the club is in a far better position now than it was, and will be in a far better position when he does leave.
 

Leethal

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The nepotism gave him a job he should not have gotten and he earns millions each year to deal with the criticism. So no, I would say he deserves exactly the same scrutiny as every other manager or even more.
Nepotism or trust?

I think it was because they trusted him to bring back the core values of what made us so great to begin with. We tried the Ol' reliables in Jose and LVG and failed miserably, while the culture and soul was drained right out of the club.

Ole has gone a long way to restoring our identity, soul and the climate and culture surrounding our club. He might not be the best manager, but he's the best man for the job at the time. We needed someone like him to, a United man, to restore what was ripped right out of our club by Jose and LVG - though LVG to a lesser extent.
 

patty123

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How was Klopp faring when he joined Liverpool?
Well he got Manz relegated and couldn't take them back up so took his ball and ran home, joined BD whilst BM were rebuilding won a title, signed a new deal till 2017 with BD, BM rebuild and normal service resumes and klopp once again takes his ball and runs to England this time a year into new contract.
 

Revan

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I feel you are a bit naive in your opening post, this one underlines it even further. The mere fact that OGS is a legend gave him the job, there are numerous more managers with higher qualifications left out of it. The nepotism gave him a job he should not have gotten and he earns millions each year to deal with the criticism. So no, I would say he deserves exactly the same scrutiny as every other manager or even more.

And please don’t bring Klopp and Liverpool into this. Klopp had a resumé and basically all big clubs in the world drooling for him, Solskjær would never get a new job in the PL except for United. And after he leaves us, no club will call him before he goes back to Norway. Furthermore, Liverpool and Manchester United cirka 2015 cannot be compared for obvious reasons.

Give it a rest, his status counts for very little and there is no room for sentiment in the situation we find ourselves in. Manchester United is an institution in a global, billion dollar industry, the top job cannot be given to an amateur in the grand scheme of things whilst giving him a free pass. The world of business certainly does not work like this, we’re not a mom and pop cornershop in some forgotten town.
Koop also won 76 points on his first full season, something that people don’t mention on these weird Klopp-Ole comparisons.
 

poleglass red

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start of the season,
Woodward: "ole we need top 4 and a good run in europe"
Ole" okay, but it will be tough with this squad"
joking aside, if we got top 4 he has met his minimum remit. Let him continue the rebuild and next season the aim is to close the gap even further.
The squad still needs some major reinforcements, we've went from the ridiculous to the sublime and back and forth at different parts this season. We are limping over the line as opposed to sprinting. At one point we all agreed RW was the major signing needed, I think in recent weeks we've seen a centre half, a defensive mid who can play 2 games in a week and can track runners, a left back and a striker to replace Ighalo will be needed on top of RW. We won't get all those in one window so this is where management earn their wages by where they priortise.
 

MalcolmTucker

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,184
Koop also won 76 points on his first full season, something that people don’t mention on these weird Klopp-Ole comparisons.
Why do people keep going on about point totals? If you want to go down that route then Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any of SAF's Man Utd teams. You think that's true?

Position is all that matters. Klopp came 4th in his first full season, one point ahead of 5th, Ole is currently in 3rd, one point ahead of 5th.