Total lack of respect for an absolute club legend (another Ole thread)

Zen86

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A lot of name calling there. You're just as bad as the people who go over the top on the other side of the argument. Stop the name calling and present your opinion in a civilized and intelligent manner.
He’s not wrong though.
 

Robbie Boy

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The OP is having a mare and I'm all for keeping Ole. It's not a good look to start a thread and act like a condescending know-it-all when people challenge your viewpoint.

Fact is, Ole isn't a top manager and he has plenty of flaws. He's had a good, solid 2020 and has pulled the club out of the dark trenches that Mourinho took it. But let's not pretend he took over a group of mid-table misfits, either. We clearly have a talented group of players that didn't respond to Mourinho's negative methods. People saying they expected us to finish "8th to 10th" are clearly agenda driven and trying to big-up what Ole has done with us.

The squad is a strong squad and the minimum was always getting top four. Yes, Ole has done amazing to get us back in contention when we looked down-and-out. But let's not pretend that it wasn't under his stewardship when we looked down-and-out. Of course, there are a multitude of variables for that, but he should have done far better in some of the games in the first half of the season. Ole still has plenty to prove and the criticisms are warranted.

This thread is literally off the back of a very small minority of posters that go totally OTT with their repetitive critique of the man. Conversely, there are a set of equally boring, repetitive posters who will spin any line they can to absolve him of any blame and overstate the work he's done here. The jury is certainly still out but I'll back him with or without CL football. I feel change now would be totally counterproductive and he's certainly made a-lot of positive changes but still has a-lot to prove.
 
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Denis79

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He’s not wrong though.
Calling other posters names dilutes any argument made and takes the discussion the wrong way. I'm in the middle when it comes to Ole, don't think he's done as great nor as bad as some posters put it. Both sides of the argument make valid points.
 

Leethal

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Calling other posters names dilutes any argument made and takes the discussion the wrong way. I'm in the middle when it comes to Ole, don't think he's done as great nor as bad as some posters put it. Both sides of the argument make valid points.
Except I didn't direct it at anyone in particular.

Please don't try and skew what I said to fit your warped narrative.

I said people that cannot see that progress is being made are stupid, and entitled. It was directed at a collective; not an individual. And I stand by what I said, 100%.
 

He'sRaldo

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We have people on this forum calling him an "idiot"
Except I didn't direct it at anyone in particular.

Please don't try and skew what I said to fit your warped narrative.

I said people that cannot see that progress is being made are stupid, and entitled. It was directed at a collective; not an individual. And I stand by what I said, 100%.
Whether it's directed at one person or multiple, the sentiment remains the same and serves only to weaken the effectiveness of your argument. You would have been better served leaving it out, especially as it's exactly the sentiment you were against in your OP.

There are many who don't insult Ole, and only ask that he's judged in accordance with Man Utd managers' standards. That's not a view that warrants being insulted.
 

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Absolutely. It didn’t feel like an achievement at the time under Mourinho and we still felt like it was the wrong style of football and that it wouldn’t last under Mou. Which became reality.

It feels progressive under Ole, like we are headed in a clearly better direction. With the right recruitment and bringing through youth as well.

There’s no doubt in my mind, regardless of that 2nd place finish, that we are in the best place we’ve been since SAF right now. We need to build on that, not tear it up and go in a totally different direction under a new manager. It hurts my head how some don’t see this.
I think the difference is that some people just look at stats and on that basis 2nd place/81 points looks good. But if you look a little deeper and consider things like sustainability, then a different picture emerges.

The great coaches I've seen in English club football - the best examples I can think of being SAF and Shankly were ruthless at tuning their squads and rebuilding, others had great teams for periods, but ultimately failed by relying on 'greats' for too long - I'm thinking of Sir Matt and Don Revie. Brian Clough had his own style :-)

SAF's record in curating his squads between 1986 and his retirement is unbelievable - I see Ole trying to rebuild in the same way and remember Sir Alex struggling to consistently win trophies in the period up to the EPL era whilst he got together a group of players he could work with - the rest is history.

I don't know if the PL will ever see his like again, or whether Ole will win a fraction of his success, but I agree with you that we are in a better place and heading in a good direction.
 

Siorac

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I disagree for the simple fact that United are in the same boat as a team like Chelsea in that, on average, the playing XI has been worse this season than last season. Your analysis (I'm being respectful, it really isn't one) is flawed because you only look at the squads on paper and disregard injuries that leave players out for huge parts of the season. Lukaku brought goals against the bottom sides so there were goals lost as he wasn't replaced + Martial and Rashford were both out for long periods. Pogba was basically out for most of the season until the restart. Also Bruno will have been here for 15 PL matches after the next match. This team played 23 PL matches this year without Bruno (and most of those 23 were without Pogba, Rashford, and Martial playing together) so you can't say Bruno was here for half a season nor can you extrapolate the current playing XI to the entirety of the 2019-20 PL season.

If Liverpool had the same magnitude of injuries as United or even City, there is no way they would have reached 90 points. City were hit with significant injuries in key areas this season and, as a result, are far away from the 98 points they posted last season.
People keep saying this but it's not really true. Martial played in 31 league games, Rashford played in 30. Martial played 2550 minutes in the PL, Rashford played 2565.

For comparison, Mané played 2730 and Salah played 2862. Sure, it's more, but really not that much more, the difference is 2-4 games - and we keep saying that Liverpool had a "freakishly lucky" season when it came to injuries anyway. You know who did miss long periods? Sergio Agüero: he only played 1460 minutes. Of City's attacking players, Sterling played the most, with 2571 minutes. At Chelsea, only four players in the entire squad played more PL minutes than Martial or Rashford (and one of those is Willian with 2605, a negligible difference).

Pogba did miss most of the season, that's fair. Of course, he was fit for last season's run-in, when we also still had Lukaku's goals and Herrera in midfield and we were garbage anyway.

The best defence of Ole is that we seemingly pulled ourselves together after the Bruno Fernandes signing and if we can maintain similar levels of form next season, we'll finally be better than a 4th-6th level team. But I am worried nonetheless because he already had a similar run right after he was appointed and that was followed by an epic collapse and then half a season of awful struggle. I really enjoyed the post-Bruno football (well, apart from the last few games - again, a worrying sign) and I want to believe but I still have nagging doubts that it was all a flash in the pan, again.
 

el3mel

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Except I didn't direct it at anyone in particular.

Please don't try and skew what I said to fit your warped narrative.

I said people that cannot see that progress is being made are stupid, and entitled. It was directed at a collective; not an individual. And I stand by what I said, 100%.
Basically "anyone who doesn't share my view on the team is stupid and entitled", thanks for saying it out loud. :lol:
 

Leethal

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Basically "anyone who doesn't share my view on the team is stupid and entitled", thanks for saying it out loud. :lol:
What, you think we've not made progress this season?

It's bizarre to me, (and anyone I speak to), that people actually think that we haven't?

You're arguing with me for the sake of it. Get off your shitty agenda and crusade, and open your eyes to what I am saying.
 

el3mel

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What, you think we've not made progress this season?

It's bizarre to me, (and anyone I speak to), that people actually think that we haven't?

You're arguing with me for the sake of it. Get off your shitty agenda and crusade, and open your eyes to what I am saying.
No I'm not arguing about Ole here. I making fun of how you are expressing your view. Not only me who pointed it out by the way. :lol:

I will leave it out here because I got what I wanted.
 

Leethal

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No I'm not arguing about Ole here. I making fun of how you are expressing your view. Not only me who pointed it out by the way. :lol:

I will leave it out here because I got what I wanted.
I'll ask you again: Do you think we've made progress this season?
 

Revan

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People keep saying this but it's not really true. Martial played in 31 league games, Rashford played in 30. Martial played 2550 minutes in the PL, Rashford played 2565.

For comparison, Mané played 2730 and Salah played 2862. Sure, it's more, but really not that much more, the difference is 2-4 games - and we keep saying that Liverpool had a "freakishly lucky" season when it came to injuries anyway. You know who did miss long periods? Sergio Agüero: he only played 1460 minutes. Of City's attacking players, Sterling played the most, with 2571 minutes. At Chelsea, only four players in the entire squad played more PL minutes than Martial or Rashford (and one of those is Willian with 2605, a negligible difference).

Pogba did miss most of the season, that's fair. Of course, he was fit for last season's run-in, when we also still had Lukaku's goals and Herrera in midfield and we were garbage anyway.

The best defence of Ole is that we seemingly pulled ourselves together after the Bruno Fernandes signing and if we can maintain similar levels of form next season, we'll finally be better than a 4th-6th level team. But I am worried nonetheless because he already had a similar run right after he was appointed and that was followed by an epic collapse and then half a season of awful struggle. I really enjoyed the post-Bruno football (well, apart from the last few games - again, a worrying sign) and I want to believe but I still have nagging doubts that it was all a flash in the pan, again.
Hush hush, who cares about how minutes they played or how many points we won. There has been progress and if anyone does not see it is an idiot.
 

RedPed

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If we had finished in 10th and Arsenal finished in 3rd, Arteta would have been hailed as the Messiah and Solskjaer would have been run out of town. Yet he is getting all the stick and Arteta is making progress and turning things around at Arsenal.

The last time we lost in the league to Burnley in January, we were 6 points I think off 4th and double digits off Leicester. Now we're just 90 minutes away from finishing 3rd above BOTH Chelsea and Leicester. Who would have thought that was remotely possible?

It's frankly quite baffling.
 

RUCK4444

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If we had finished in 10th and Arsenal finished in 3rd, Arteta would have been hailed as the Messiah and Solskjaer would have been run out of town. Yet he is getting all the stick and Arteta is making progress and turning things around at Arsenal.

The last time we lost in the league to Burnley in January, we were 6 points I think off 4th and double digits off Leicester. Now we're just 90 minutes away from finishing 3rd above BOTH Chelsea and Leicester. Who would have thought that was remotely possible?

It's frankly quite baffling.
This. We’ve had a few rough patches but the turnaround has been incredible and your point about how Ole and Arteta are viewed by some is bang on.
 

Zlatan 7

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The OP is having a mare and I'm all for keeping Ole. It's not a good look to start a thread and act like a condescending know-it-all when people challenge your viewpoint.

Fact is, Ole isn't a top manager and he has plenty of flaws. He's had a good, solid 2020 and has pulled the club out of the dark trenches that Mourinho took it. But let's not pretend he took over a group of mid-table misfits, either. We clearly have a talented group of players that didn't respond to Mourinho's negative methods. People saying they expected us to finish "8th to 10th" are clearly agenda driven and trying to big-up what Ole has done with us.

The squad is a strong squad and the minimum was always getting top four. Yes, Ole has done amazing to get us back in contention when we looked down-and-out. But let's not pretend that it wasn't under his stewardship when we looked down-and-out. Of course, there are a multitude of variables for that, but he should have done far better in some of the games in the first half of the season. Ole still has plenty to prove and the criticisms are warranted.

This thread is literally off the back of a very small minority of posters that go totally OTT with their repetitive critique of the man. Conversely, there are a set of equally boring, repetitive posters who will spin any line they can to absolve him of any blame and overstate the work he's done here. The jury is certainly still out but I'll back him with or without CL football. I feel change now would be totally counterproductive and he's certainly made a-lot of positive changes but still has a-lot to prove.
I agree with some of your post but the bold is purely made up and you just putting your own thoughts on other people.
I though we’d finish 8-10th. The way people are crying by our points this season, that prediction wasn’t so far off was it?
 

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No I'm not arguing about Ole here. I making fun of how you are expressing your view. Not only me who pointed it out by the way. :lol:

I will leave it out here because I got what I wanted.
In fairness, not speaking for him, but I think he’s frustrated by the thought that many here would sack Ole, disregard the first real progress we’ve seen since SAF and hire another ‘big name manager’ which will literally hit the reset button.

Speaking as somebody who really cares about the direction this club is heading in I tend to share that frustration.

Agree there are ways to go about expressing your views, the only way people will change their opinion is through Ole and our performances. The frustration being that some have seen enough to know Ole’s worth sticking with for the time being (in their opinion) and that a change of manager would potentially be FAR more detrimental.

It’s sad that some are wumming in here trying to get a reaction.
 

keithsingleton

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Stop being so sensitive. A Manchester United manager should be highly scrunitised. Ole is no different. People here pretend as if he is to United what Messi is to Barcelona. And even then the person should be critiqued as just another manager.
I'm on the same page mate. Yet another thread on Ole. :houllier:

What people have to remember is we're all United fans and just want what we think is best for the club. Why do so many fans get on their high horse about having a opinion?
Being manager of the biggest club in the world your always going to be vetted by fans irrespective of status.

I'm one of the fans who question he has the ability to take Pep & Klopp on, but trust me when I say this along with many fans who will agree with me they won't be more happy than to be proven wrong. Remember fans, we're all on the same side, we all feel the passion, we all feel the pain.

Today is Ole's biggest game of his life and needs to get his tactics spot on which have been questioned many times already this season. Come 4pm millions of us will be bricking it including myself as it simply doesn't get any bigger for our great club with missing out on CL football.

I'm pretty sure regardless of the result members will still point fingers. However, what I can say is come 4pm we will all be supporting him.

COME ON YOU REDS.
 
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Denis79

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Except I didn't direct it at anyone in particular.

Please don't try and skew what I said to fit your warped narrative.

I said people that cannot see that progress is being made are stupid, and entitled. It was directed at a collective; not an individual. And I stand by what I said, 100%.
People who think we are making progress are idiots, oh btw I'm not directing this at you specifically. Still name calling, no?

Look as I've said in previous posts, I find good arguments on both sides of the argument and you made som solid ones in your post as well but calling people idiots and entitled was completely unecessary and didn't really add anything to your argument.
 

Robbie Boy

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I agree with some of your post but the bold is purely made up and you just putting your own thoughts on other people.
I though we’d finish 8-10th. The way people are crying by our points this season, that prediction wasn’t so far off was it?
Of course it's my thoughts that I'm conveying, it's a forum, but I stand by it. The points totals are all relative. Thinking we would regress and 9 teams - in a pretty poor PL, by all accounts - would finish above us, is all Ole spin imo. But again, that's simply my take and I'm certainly not seeking unanimous agreement.
 

RedPed

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People who think we are making progress are idiots, oh btw I'm not directing this at you specifically. Still name calling, no?

Look as I've said in previous posts, I find good arguments on both sides of the argument and you made som solid ones in your post as well but calling people idiots and entitled was completely unecessary and didn't really add anything to your argument.
Well, if you can't acknowledge finishing 3rd, securing CL football (assuming all goes to plan) and still in with a shout of the Europa League trophy as signs of significant progress, there are no other words for it really are there?

Especially as I've said before within the context of the adulation that Lampard and Arteta are getting. One moron on Sky even said today that if Lampard managed to get top 4 and win the FA Cup, he should be considered for manager of the season. There's clearly bias against Ole and what he is doing at United.
 

Zlatan 7

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Of course it's my thoughts that I'm conveying, it's a forum, but I stand by it. The points totals are all relative. Thinking we would regress and 9 teams - in a pretty poor PL, by all accounts - would finish above us, is all Ole spin imo. But again, that's simply my take and I'm certainly not seeking unanimous agreement.
I was more replying to you making up that people have agendas if they don’t agree with you.
The points and performance I agree we all have different opinions. Just not agendas :)
 

westmeath

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Why does every opinion on here become characterised as an agenda? All United fans owe Ole respect because of his time as a player for the club, including those who are too young to remember that time.
But now he is the manager and he has to open to criticism and sacked if he doesn’t meet the required standard. Personally I don’t think we’ll challenge for the title with him as manager and if he fails today then he should be sacked. I know it’s harsh but this is Manchester United and mediocrity is not good enough. Our squad is improving and a top manager is a key part of what we need. That being said, I have and will always have massive respect for Ole.
 

Strelok

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Personally I don’t think we’ll challenge for the title with him as manager and if he fails today then he should be sacked. I know it’s harsh but this is Manchester United and mediocrity is not good enough. Our squad is improving and a top manager is a key part of what we need. That being said, I have and will always have massive respect for Ole.
Absolutely, you've already someone in mind I think?
 

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Would anyone sack the manager for finishing in 2nd-12th-13th in three consecutive seasons?
 

TheLord

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I understand your sentiments, and I agree with most of the elements in your post. But sentiments should not cloud one's judgment. Let us be objective about it. Working as the manager of Manchester United is not a straightforward job and managers will come under scrutiny week in and out.

Yes, we shouldn't be disrespectful. Yes, we shouldn't be irrational. Yes, we shouldn't be superfluous. BUT, there is no reason to cut some slack just because someone is a club legend. That is just the nature of the job - you either take it or walk away.
 

Mainoldo

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Absolutely, you've already someone in mind I think?
@westmeath. Don’t get roped in he’s just going to tell you no one on this planet can replace Ole and give you all the negatives to the guy you have in mind.

Saving you an unnecessary debate on match day ;)
 

Zlatan 7

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Yes. But why those random numbers? Don’t tell me it’s SAF in 1935?:lol:
Not related to this post but can I ask you a question so I get a feeling of what you mean when you post.

do you think Ole should be sacked this summer? Yes or no will do
 

Xaviesta

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I think this whole discussion ecapsulates the awkwardness with having a club legend/great servant as your manager. Comments about Louis van Gaal and Jose Mourinho that might have been seen as fair game suddenly aren't becuase of OGS's history with United. Louis van Gaal and Jose Mourinho copped some very strongly worded and often justifiable criticism during their tenures. I wonder how the OP felt about that.

I do read a lot of the stuff about Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and yes, some of it is can be a bit harsh but then there are times I wonder if the term ''the buck stops with the manager'' has been forgotten a bit as well. This is an opinion site. Some will be lenient on the manager, others are going to hold them to a high standard and pile a large amount of the culpability for their team not winning at the feet of the manager.
 

Robbie Boy

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I was more replying to you making up that people have agendas if they don’t agree with you.
The points and performance I agree we all have different opinions. Just not agendas :)
Well, the broader point was that the staunch 'Ole-in' crowd are equally as agenda driven as the stauch 'Ole-out' crowd. Both use spin and selective stats etc. So yes, saying you expected us to finish 8th to 10th is just as agenda driven as someone who says any other manager would have had us finishing comfortably 3rd.

Edit: Not sure where you deciphered that I said anyone that doesn't agree with me is agenda driven. I'm rather impartial to Ole so have no stance whatsoever. I did want him out at one point but feel he should be given a chance now. Again, my point is there's two extreme divides on here and BOTH are agenda driven. I expected us to fight for top four this season. Finishing third would be above what I expected.
 

Mainoldo

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Not related to this post but can I ask you a question so I get a feeling of what you mean when you post.

do you think Ole should be sacked this summer? Yes or no will do
Yes. I’ve seen enough to know he’s not taking us any further and there is a coach who does exactly what he does but better in Pochettino who should have been given the job when we had Mourinho takeover. Poor hindsight from the club and many fans at the time including me.

But it’s not going to happen. So I’ll never get to see-out my opinion. But I’ll discuss topics regardless.

I know you didn’t ask for the extras but no point asking a man where he’s going if you don’t know where he’s coming from.
 

b82REZ

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Not related to this post but can I ask you a question so I get a feeling of what you mean when you post.

do you think Ole should be sacked this summer? Yes or no will do
It's not as binary as that.

There are numerous aspects that will depend on whether he's here next season. Getting a result this afternoon guarantees he gets to be here come first game next season. The question really should be for everyone to consider is will Ole eventually get us back to the top? If the answer is no there really is no other real reason to persist with him beyond things like a feel good factor and because of his history with the club.

Personally I hope he goes on to secure top 4. However long term I have significant doubts over his ability to lead us back to the top. Each good thing he does seemingly gets at least one negative to go along side it.

Throughout his tenure he has not shown enough IMO. I love the man and genuinely hope he goes on to have a hugely successful 2nd career with us but to manage United you should be part of an elite group of managers and unfortunately Ole has yet to display any consistent characteristics of a top coach.
 

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Yes. But why those random numbers? Don’t tell me it’s SAF in 1935?:lol:
Congratulations, you just dispensed with the services of our greatest ever manager/contender in 1990, after his first three full seasons.

As you sacked him, he never went on to achieve 6, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 3, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1.

I don't know if Ole will win even one of those titles, but I know he won't if he gets sacked and sacking him prematurely when he is taking the team in the right direction makes no sense.

Being neither Ole 'in/out' as a matter of conviction, I would like to see him given two more seasons to show what he can do and if his team is regularly and consistently challenging for silverwar, then he's earned the right to stay longer.
 

b82REZ

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Well, the broader point was that the staunch 'Ole-in' crowd are equally as agenda driven as the stauch 'Ole-out' crowd. Both use spin and selective stats etc. So yes, saying you expected us to finish 8th to 10th is just as agenda driven as someone who says any other manager would have had us finishing comfortably 3rd.
It really bugs me that any one that has doubts over Ole are labelled as agenda driven when that is exactly what the In crowd also have.

This thread encapsulates that Pro Ole agenda throughout.

The forum has become an us or them environment and objective debate is almost dead because people either refuse to consider an alternative PoV or threads descend into name calling. Especially when OP doesn't get the support he thought he was going to get, aye @Leethal?
 

Mainoldo

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Congratulations, you just dispensed with the services of our greatest ever manager/contender in 1990, after his first three full seasons.

As you sacked him, he never went on to achieve 6, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 3, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1.

I don't know if Ole will win even one of those titles, but I know he won't if he gets sacked and sacking him prematurely when he is taking the team in the right direction makes no sense.

Being neither Ole 'in/out' as a matter of conviction, I would like to see him given two more seasons to show what he can do and if his team is regularly and consistently challenging for silverwar, then he's earned the right to stay longer.
What’s the barometer for two more seasons? We can actually explore this?

Also I ask this question all the time. How old are you?
 

JPRouve

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Not related to this post but can I ask you a question so I get a feeling of what you mean when you post.

do you think Ole should be sacked this summer? Yes or no will do
Fundamentally I find that question interesting because in sports whether a manager could be sacked or not depends on a lot of things. But for me there are two main reasons, the manager is currently underperforming or the club believes that the manager isn't going to be significantly better than he currently is.

An example of the first one will be Moyes at United and an example of the second will be Rodgers with Liverpool. When it comes to the second category when you should pull the trigger relies entirely on who is available and how you rate them. For example I was for sacking LVG after the 2014/2015 season because Klopp became available, it wasn't because LVG did something wrong but because Klopp was in my opinion a clear upgrade and someone that I trusted to take the club to the next level. And one of the reasons I'm "Ole in" is because I'm not convinced that there is currently that type of manager on the market, I like Pochettino but I'm not 100% sure that he is an elite manager or will be one in the future, I see him at the tier below. The only manager that gives me some Klopp vibes is Nagelsmann, I like how his teams are very well coached and how players seem to improve, he also uses different systems and organizations which makes me believe that he wouldn't require a squad overhaul.
 

Robbie Boy

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It really bugs me that any one that has doubts over Ole are labelled as agenda driven when that is exactly what the In crowd also have.

This thread encapsulates that Pro Ole agenda throughout.

The forum has become an us or them environment and objective debate is almost dead because people either refuse to consider an alternative PoV or threads descend into name calling. Especially when OP doesn't get the support he thought he was going to get, aye @Leethal?
Yes, agreed. Any debate over Ole has become extremely tedious and not even worth getting into. Thankfully I'm pretty impartial to him at this point and I see the positives and negatives. If he left at the end of the season I wouldn't be overly fussed but if he stays - which I fully expect he will - then I'll fully back him and hope he improves us furter while also improving himself as a manager.

The two warring factions are so boring on here at this point. It's literally the same few staunch in and out crowd monopolising every Ole related thread and ramming their opinions down everyone's throat. The in crowd seem oblivious to the fact that they're equally as agenda driven which shows a crazy lack of self awareness.
 

b82REZ

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Yes, agreed. Any debate over Ole has become extremely tedious and not even worth getting into. Thankfully I'm pretty impartial to him at this point and I see the positives and negatives. If he left at the end of the season I I wouldn't be overly fussed but if he stays - which I fully expect he will - then I'll fully back him and hope he improves us furter while also improving himself as a manager.

The two warring factions are so boring on here at this point. It's literally the same few staunch in and out crowd monopolising every Ole related thread and rammind their opinions down everyone's throat. The in crowd seem oblivious to the fact that they're equally as agenda driven which shows a crazy lack of self awareness.
Id say I share a similar view. If it was my choice I'd probably part ways just because I don't think he will ever win trophies with us (specifically the big 2). However I fully expect him to be in charge come September and he will still get my full support. But I'm not going to blindly support him because of his playing career and I won't be bullied into not expressing any dissatisfaction with him if he performs as badly as he did at the start of this season.
 

Leethal

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I think this whole discussion ecapsulates the awkwardness with having a club legend/great servant as your manager. Comments about Louis van Gaal and Jose Mourinho that might have been seen as fair game suddenly aren't becuase of OGS's history with United. Louis van Gaal and Jose Mourinho copped some very strongly worded and often justifiable criticism during their tenures. I wonder how the OP felt about that.

I do read a lot of the stuff about Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and yes, some of it is can be a bit harsh but then there are times I wonder if the term ''the buck stops with the manager'' has been forgotten a bit as well. This is an opinion site. Some will be lenient on the manager, others are going to hold them to a high standard and pile a large amount of the culpability for their team not winning at the feet of the manager.
RE: Van Gaal - I thought it was absolutely disgusting the way we handled the sacking of Van Gaal. I think outside of his horrible football, he was actually trying to stick to our/his values with promoting youth and doing things the "right" way. He wasn't the right fit for us, obviously, (as the football was horrible to watch), but due to his stature, passion and commitment to the job I thought he deserved better than the way we let him go. It might have been the right time to move him on, but definitely not in the way we handled it.

RE: Mourinho - We knew what we were getting with him. How he acted, and how he ran the club, was exactly what was to be expected. A leopard doesn't change his spots, just because he's the United manager. He wanted to win, clearly, but his way of doing it was so far detached from the United way, that we lost all of our identity in the process. Again, not the right fit for this club. It's clear as day to see that Woodward wanted quick results to placate the fans, so he brought in Mourinho who is notorious for it. He's never going to be a long term manager at any club, but typically he always gets some quick results. I think we were OK with that, but his toxic nature towards the end crossed the line and he had to be let go. It wasn't going to improve with him. If he doesn't get it right immediately, you may as well cut your losses and get rid. There was no long term project in place with him, it seemed, so getting rid of him was best for everyone.

RE: Solskjaer - He might not be the man to take us right to the very top - only time will tell this - but what he has done is restored United's values, beliefs, soul, culture and identity. I think at the very least that deserves some respect, don't you? Even if he wasn't a club legend, he's done a cracking job reversing the horrendous state of the club when he walked in to the role. If he is to leave tomorrow, the next person to walk in to the job will find a club in far, far, better shape than it has been in the previous 7 years. Ole has a structure in place - a sustainable one - and for that he should be appreciated, not maligned like he currently is. To reiterate - Yes, he's a club legend, and in my opinion, that should afford him some leeway in regards to respect, despite what people here would have you believe. Would you like to support a club that cast off all it's family values arbitrarily? I wouldn't. We're better than that. We always have been. Our legends are still sung about 20 years after retirement - that's part of the romance of this club. However, if he isn't up to the job as manager, and isn't producing, absolutely he should be replaced. But in doing so, we should do so in a respectful manner, I'd hope. I'm said many times in this thread that it is A-OK to criticise him as a manager - but attacking his appearance, calling him a PE teacher, etc, etc. is well over the top and completely disrespectful to someone who has given equal to or more to this club than most anyone I can remember. I don't want our fan base to be toxic to our own players. We're not Real Madrid or any of those other toxic clubs; we're Manchester United.
 

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What’s the barometer for two more seasons? We can actually explore this?

Also I ask this question all the time. How old are you?
What’s the barometer for two more seasons, can actually explore this? - I don't think it can be reasonably explored out of context.

The SAF results were in the context of rebuilding, these seasons 1, 1 and 1, 1 and 1, 1 and 1,1 were in the context of having a team built and at its prime.

I'm not going to tell you my age, as its not great security to give out too many data points on an open forum, but suffice it to say that I started to support United in the latter part of Ron Atkinson's reign and was an adult then, so I remember the frustration of the early years and the pressure to sack SAF in 1990 from the fans, plus the sense of relief when Utd won the FA Cup by beating Palace in the replay, giving Sir Alex his first trophy - the rest, as they say, is history.