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Transgender rights discussion
- Thread starter crappycraperson
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Literally using the Fox News defence
As usual there is common ground underneath artificial left-right divides...
e - a bonus, the guy doing this defence is the NYT's " Health & science reporter"
Thats not really a regret rate. Just the number that actually requested reversal.
Thanks for clarifying!
That's not really a requested reversal rate. Just the combined number that actually requested reversal or transitioned back to their sex assigned at birth.
not sure what your point is. Anyway the Tweet Author should do a better job at reporting factual information rather than manipulating things I think!
The title of the paper is right there my man, and it also has the word regret. The Tweeter has nothing to do with it.
Plastic surgeons finding plastic surgery to have a low reversal request rate and somewhat misrepresent the findings in a plastic surgery journal shocker.
Is that your professional opinion after reading the paper, doctor?
That's my scientific editorial opinion, because they use the word regret in the title and summary despite measuring something else.
Just helping you with correcting things.
Interesting take:
Didn't know Rowling was with us on the Caf.
I resent your implication sir, I can do better than the Fantastic Beasts scripts.
The Useful Idiots Fueling the Right-Wing Transphobia Panic
This is about the article I Thought I Was Saving Trans Kids. Now I’m Blowing the Whistle, published by Bari Weiss's new project that is also publishing Rowling's new podcast PR campaign "The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling".
It's a tried and true recepie: a pro trans person wants to help, realises that something is very, very wrong, and now has to let people know. She claimed to have witnessed a bunch of ruined lifes, where insecure and confused kids come in and practically get bombarded with blockers and hormones, often with serious side effects. This made quite a stir, of course in right wing circles but also among the libs and centrists. The American Prospect specifically mention Jonathan Chait and Matthew Yglesias as examples of high profile people talking about it, but it was all over.
It was all made up.
This is about the article I Thought I Was Saving Trans Kids. Now I’m Blowing the Whistle, published by Bari Weiss's new project that is also publishing Rowling's new podcast PR campaign "The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling".
It's a tried and true recepie: a pro trans person wants to help, realises that something is very, very wrong, and now has to let people know. She claimed to have witnessed a bunch of ruined lifes, where insecure and confused kids come in and practically get bombarded with blockers and hormones, often with serious side effects. This made quite a stir, of course in right wing circles but also among the libs and centrists. The American Prospect specifically mention Jonathan Chait and Matthew Yglesias as examples of high profile people talking about it, but it was all over.
It was all made up.
Is it always made up?
Yes, all stories like hers are made up. All medications have a risk of side-effects, but she lied about the kind and prevalence, and she lied about the process of how medication is prescribed.
She talked about how kids come in there believing they're a mushroom and gets put on pills right away.
By “it was all made up” you actually mean a different journalist tracked down a few people who disagreed with the version of events provided by the author (who is married to a trans man) of the original article? (A version of events they also provided in a sworn affidavit)
Because that’s not the usual definition of “all made up”.
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My question specifically was if such stories are always made up or not.
What such stories?
The sort you mentioned: "She claimed to have witnessed a bunch of ruined lifes, where insecure and confused kids come in and practically get bombarded with blockers and hormones, often with serious side effects"
This is a pretty common theme isn't it? Some documentary or video series on the same issues.
Yes, you don't get bombarded with blockers or hormone therapy, it's a long process, and while serious side effects can happen they are rare.
Well I don’t know. Can’t claim to have researched the background of every story but there’s definitely some cases that sound wrong to me. It’s this weird grey area for me especially when it comes to kids who have gender dysmorphia possibly because I don’t fully understand this yet.
If you think none of those stories are true it makes sense. My point was if just one person was lying who cares the broader issue matters
Is there a broader issue? You seem convinced there is. Pretending that conversion medications are given to kids like candies is one of the biggest right wing smokescreen.
That one witness claims that patients were given hormones immediately after arrival, and because they were identifying as rocks and "helicopters" (you are online enough to know what "identifying as helicopters" means in this context).
The parents (interviewed by 4 different publications independently) say that there was a policy of a multiple-month delay before any treatment was started. Nobody mentions rocksor helicopters, including parents who didn't like the clinic, but acknowledged that their kids were happier.
Those portray two diametrically opposed realities.
The presence of "helicopter" in one story makes me think it has the credibility of a Bluemoon "rag mate", but it does have a positive writeup from chief centrist Jonathan Chait of NY Mag
I struggled with this initially when one of my kids was going through "the change" as we called it, because it was all alien to us. Even when their biogical dad was being a cnut about it and his parents, who they see often - a heavily Christian group of mental feckwits who wouldn't understand the words of Jesus if they lamped over the head with with - decided to disown my kid, and their own mum was being a bit forceful towards them about it , I just said "feck it, you do you, I'll love you until the end of time mate."
I adore my kids but obviously there's always that little part of you that thinks "maybe it's a trend, like previous eras were teenagers decide they're goths or neds depending on what their friends do?" But then there's also the part of you that says "feck off, my kids know what they're doing, if this is who they are then that's the end of the discussion" and another part that says "feck off, let them figure it out of their own either way".
In every case - it genuinely doesn't matter what I think. It isn't my life. It's theirs. And they have the right to choose, and we have a duty to listen and try to understand it as much as we can. If we fall short then keep trying to understand it.
You sound great. In case this sounds sarcastic it's very much not.
In general, I wouldn't blame parents for being uncertain or confused, even critical as long as they don't impact the kids negatively. It's a very personal subject, it's complicated, and it's relatively new as something treated seriously both medically and s a society.
The liars making up stories about helicopters, though, Jesus Christ, feck right off. It's hard to not despise the people taking those obvious lies seriously, as well, but for some it's a combination of ignorance and just not caring, and depending on the distribution I guess it could be worse.
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This is the article that was accused of being “all made up” in the post I responded to. Not one mention of helicopters or rocks. So it does seem that something really might have been “all made up”? Fair point.That one witness claims that patients were given hormones immediately after arrival, and because they were identifying as rocks and "helicopters" (you are online enough to know what "identifying as helicopters" means in this context).
The parents (interviewed by 4 different publications independently) say that there was a policy of a multiple-month delay before any treatment was started. Nobody mentions rocksor helicopters, including parents who didn't like the clinic, but acknowledged that their kids were happier.
Those portray two diametrically opposed realities.
The presence of "helicopter" in one story makes me think it has the credibility of a Bluemoon "rag mate", but it does have a positive writeup from chief centrist Jonathan Chait of NY Mag
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Thanks for the context and good on you for providing your child with the most important and powerful tool — unconditional love. Even when it can be confusing.
My thoughts would be that kids don’t always really know what they want do they? I think of myself when I was 15 or even 17 and I absolutely cringe at my ideas of life or what I thought I was but then I didn’t have confusion over my gender or sexuality so I really can’t comment to that either.
I have never been in this situation with a friend or family member so as I said initially I simply don’t know enough. It’s difficult for me to understand and when I do read or see certain stories of kids who had hormonal changes to their gender only to regret it later I find it plausible only because of my own understanding of how it was when I was a kid. They could all be lies.
Literally cannot tell if this is satire or not. It could be satire. But it could also be genuine. But it could also be satire? But...
There are some real stories about people having regrets later, what I said are lies are the stories about how quickly and uncritically they are put on hormones.
Bravo, brother. If only more people in key positions of authority had your same view...
You're a legend Pidgey.
Well ironically on the caf this would be labeled as “whataboutism” and not relevant to the thread…