Transfer budget glass ceiling

[Litch]

The facts are we are struggling signing players. Forget the crap about CL football, city signed players at the start of their project without it. Same applies to the London rubbish. Tell a footballer your paying 10k more a week and see if he still wants to live in London? I'm sure some of those city signings would have been wanted by the other big teams too....it simple comes down to paying the money. The best teams are prepared to pay it. Pay 50m+ for Vidal, he'd be here. The best player are at the best clubs.

Many might argue but I'm convinced we have hit the transfer budget ceiling. We've spent 100m this year and Woodward can't make the numbers work. Glazers I believe won't allow him to spend a penny more without getting some in. I believe we were committed to buy Herrera and Shaw before LVG arrived. That's a dent of -70m and the idea that the Glazers were going to get the cheque book out and spend another 100m+ was absolutely laughable irrespective of how much money is coming in or the rhetoric that Woodward keeps spouting.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

until I hear otherwise we can assume it was £70m at the start of the summer, we spent £56m and the rest looks like going on Rojo, other than that I have heard nothing to suggest we are making signings, seriously, there are no other serious links to our club right now, NONE.

 

[Woodzy]

I reckon the the money is there to spend. Woodward is just dicking about with his negotiations.

 

[Bestie07]

That's the thing I hate the most about the club under the Glazers. They think the fans are idiots if you look at the kind of statements the club continues to make about the funds being available for signings and never actually going ahead and spending the money. That's why I am glad we have LVG as a manager now. I didn't trust Ferguson when he signed Valencia, Owen and Obertan after letting go of Ronaldo and Tevez and started going on about value. I didn't believe that Moyes had the balls to say anything against his employers. If the Glazers and Woodward fail to deliver on the signings, then LVG will call them out on it and the fans will love him for it.

 

[LonelyFire]

Is this a surprise? It's been like that since the vermin took over.

 

[Kill 'em all]

I think our owners somehow think that spending 60m is a lot of money.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

I reckon the the money is there to spend. Woodward is just dicking about with his negotiations.

where is your proof of this? where? seriously, it's 2 weeks to deadline day & the ONLY concrete link with a player is the nonsense going on at Sporting over Rojo.

 

[Moonred]

Thats alright, but it wouldn't make sense then for Woody to talk big about it. We should be much more prudent, why didn't we look for lesser talents in numbers from other leagues if we can't quite get the marquee signings done. Any signing is better than no signing currently. I can't assume anything until the transfer deadline but it is like an endless wait for a goal which never comes.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Were loaded.

Either the glazers are being very stingy and controlling or Woodward is inept at transfers.

 

[Bojan11]

I personally don't think the fans do enough against the Glazers and sadly that will be the case for as long as they are here. We hire planes for Moyes banners. But nothing against the Glazers.

There were protests in 2010 and that lasted only a few months.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

I think our owners somehow think that spending 60m is a lot of money.

that's the problem aye, under SAF we could spend £50-60m each summer and it would be enough because we had a team ethos & a manager who could work miracles, not to mention a much bigger squad than we have now.

last summer we needed to spend like £100m realistically to challenge, under Moyes (a meh manager) we spent £27.5m

this summer we needed to spend like £150m+ to challenge, so far we are barely at a third of that.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That's the thing I hate the most about the club under the Glazers. They think the fans are idiots if you look at the kind of statements the club continues to make about the funds being available for signings and never actually going ahead and spending the money. That's why I am glad we have LVG as a manager now. I didn't trust Ferguson when he signed Valencia, Owen and Obertan after letting go of Ronaldo and Tevez and started going on about value. I didn't believe that Moyes had the balls to say anything against his employers. If the Glazers and Woodward fail to deliver on the signings, then LVG will call them out on it and the fans will love him for it.

I agree with you there. There are plenty of United fans who know about big business, but they know nothing. That we haven't been players/manager so know nothing. It's the what do you know about it attitude.

You could also see the old Green and Gold campaign raising it's head again and unfortunately for the owners they haven't got SAF as manager acting as a buffer.

 

[villain]

I reckon the long term loss in monetary income far outweighs an initial overspend on players.

Didn't Adidas say that every year we fail to qualify for the CL we'll receive approx. £24m less than the £75m a year agreed upon for our kit deal?
Plus the loss of earnings from not being in the CL to begin with.
And the difference in PL money depending on where you finish in the table, and televised games etc.

You'd think that for example, paying an extra £10m on Vidal, Benatia & Di Maria each, even if "theres no value" would be worth it, if they can be the difference between a CL spot next year, and a repeat of last year.

 

[Woodzy]

where is your proof of this? where? seriously, it's 2 weeks to deadline day & the ONLY concrete link with a player is the nonsense going on at Sporting over Rojo.

There is no proof. Just like there is also no proof we have spent everything have. We are just speculating because no one knows...

 

[Bestie07]

Loved the shot of Joel Glazer yesterday, he really seemed baffled that we were losing.

 

[Kill 'em all]

I agree with you there. There are plenty of United fans who know about big business, but they know nothing. That we haven't been players/manager so know nothing. It's the what do you know about it attitude.

You could also see the old Green and Gold campaign raising it's head again and unfortunately for the owners they haven't got SAF as manager acting as a buffer.

Yes, under SAF the green and gold campaign was stopped because we kept getting results. If it starts again, I can only see it gaining strength if we keep getting disappointing results. If it comes to that it's good if the fans intervene for the well being of the club. After being promised so much in terms of top additions to the team and all that talk from Woodward just under a month ago, I would think that fans would be furious if we don't add what we need in the coming 2 weeks and we keep getting these disappointing performances.

 

[Bojan11]

The proof is that Woodward said to investors to expect big business in the conference call back in April. And said we would spend more than usual. So he is hardly going to lie to investors .

The problem is we being cheap and refusing to pay the going rate for top class players. Which is typical of the Glazer regime.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

There is no proof. Just like there is also no proof we have spent everything have. We are just speculating because no one knows...

yeah but it's more logical to assume that if we aren't being linked seriously with anyone that we aren't even looking than to think we are signing every player who "might" be available

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Loved the shot of Joel Glazer yesterday, he really seemed baffled that we were losing.

He wasn't on his own there.

 

[Woodzy]

The proof is that Woodward said to investors to expect big business in the conference call back in April. And said we would spend more than usual. So he is hardly going to lie to investors .

The problem is we being cheap and refusing to pay the going rate for top class players. Which is typical of the Glazer regime.

This.

 

[Kill 'em all]

To think that if we paid the 8m agent fees required by Nasri's and Hazard's agents, we would most likely have those 2 players in our lineup. Instead we got Ashley Young and that's what you get for being cheap.

 

[Kakeru]

That's the thing I hate the most about the club under the Glazers. They think the fans are idiots if you look at the kind of statements the club continues to make about the funds being available for signings and never actually going ahead and spending the money. That's why I am glad we have LVG as a manager now. I didn't trust Ferguson when he signed Valencia, Owen and Obertan after letting go of Ronaldo and Tevez and started going on about value. I didn't believe that Moyes had the balls to say anything against his employers. If the Glazers and Woodward fail to deliver on the signings, then LVG will call them out on it and the fans will love him for it.

That's the typical mindset seen with too many North American businessmen; they think we don't know shit and that they know everything. No wonder why the world's economy has gone down the toilet in 2008 because of vermin who think the same way as the Glazers do. Such people should get the stick for being the genuine ones who don't know anything about the current reality.

 

[Bestie07]

He wasn't on his own there.

He was one of the few who could do something about it.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

the sad thing is though that a lot of fans are idiots, they put up with the dismal transfer window last year, they put up with Moyes, they put up with the lack of signings this season...

need I go on?

 

[Litch]

I reckon the the money is there to spend. Woodward is just dicking about with his negotiations.

We def have the money but the Glazers were spoilt under SAF. They think that's the norm but the football worlds a def place since then. I'm convinced if they said to Woodward 'it's an open cheque book', the players would be here if we were prepared to spend the money!!!!!!

 

[Woodzy]

yeah but it's more logical to assume that if we aren't being linked seriously with anyone that we aren't even looking than to think we are signing every player who "might" be available

We are linked with many players, granted most are likely media bullshit, and anything concrete is probably being kept under wraps by the club after last year.

The money is there, there is no doubt about it, we are loaded. However, I believe that just because we said we can afford to spunk world record fees on a player doesn't mean we are going to as soon as team asks for it.

We are in a position where we are desperate and should be paying what it takes for players. As a businessman, Ed probably doesn't see it this way.

 

[Bestie07]

the sad thing is though that a lot of fans are idiots, they put up with the dismal transfer window last year, they put up with Moyes, they put up with the lack of signings this season...

need I go on?

That is true. We are the ones who buy all the expensive merchandise that the club and it's sponsors sell when a large part of that money is not put back in the club. The Glazers won't care where we finish as long as the money comes in.

 

[Nanook]

Same applies to the London rubbish. Tell a footballer your paying 10k more a week and see if he still wants to live in London?

It depends how big 10k is to his overall wage, location is a very important factor. If a player can earn 10k in London or 20k in Manchester they're going to pick Manchester but if it is 150k in London or 10k more in Manchester many will pick less money just to go to London.

I don't think location is that much of a hindrance though, Manchester United still offers fantastic wages and that will be most players first concern. The talent pool is massive and Chelsea, PSG, Madrid and Barca can't sign everybody so there will still be many world class players who United could sign.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

We are linked with many players, granted most are likely media bullshit, and anything concrete is probably being kept under wraps by the club after last year.

The money is there, there is no doubt about it, we are loaded. However, I believe that just because we said we can afford to spunk world record fees on a player doesn't mean we are going to as soon as team asks for it.

We are in a position where we are desperate and should be paying what it takes for players. As a businessman, Ed probably doesn't see it this way.

CONCRETE links means actual verified stories in reliable sources...not fecking two bit hacks from the fecking red tops making shit up, for gods sake man, do you also think the page three birds are empowering women do you? fecking hell.

again, where is this money? WHERE IS IT? it's lining the fecking glazers pockets is where it is, whilst cretins like you lap up the rubbish Woodward feeds you.

all he sees is how to make money for his bosses, time you figured that out.

That is true. We are the ones who buy all the expensive merchandise that the club and it's sponsors sell when a large part of that money is not put back in the club. The Glazers won't care where we finish as long as the money comes in.

yup, it's why I am not buying any merch this year, no kit, nothing, feck the Glazers man, they are turning this club from one of the biggest & best in the world to a fecking joke of a team that creams their pants with money whilst doing feck all on the pitch.

 

[friendlytramp]

Thats alright, but it wouldn't make sense then for Woody to talk big about it

That's the point though, that's the pattern. In fact it makes more sense to shout about it if we don't really have the cash as all it would ever do is drive up prices. Woody would know that and he's no mug.


Fergie always used to come out and talk about there being cash available if he needed it. Moyes did the same. It keeps the fans placated til the window ends then the cycle starts again.

I don't expect LVG would agree to be a glazer mouth piece so instead they get woody in to do his interview, he spouts his nonsense about how much cash is available sells season tickets and the cycle starts again...

We are actually all mugs as we fall for it every year, under SAF they could get away with it because of his genius and our continued success. Under moyes they obviously couldn't. I expect they thought LVG could have a similar impact as SAF.

We'll see now how valuable champions league football really is to the glazers as unless they spend big we won't be getting it for a while.

The business model is failing and it wouldn't surprise me if they sold up now those huge kit deals are in place to boost the value of the club.

We'll find out this year as LVG won't be anybody's bitch.

 

[Bojan11]

If reports are true that we were prepared to pay more for bale than Madrid. Then the money is there.

I don't think the likes of Vidal, Di Maria or Benatia are big money signings that the Glazers want to make. They want players, who they want to be able to market and more importantly have a sell on value. All those three I mentioned are 26 and potentially their last big move.

 

[Red_Aaron]

I dunno, there's nothing wrong with having a budget. Clubs should have a budget, and all proper clubs do.

We are spending money, I'm thinking it's more an issue of our processes letting us down of late. We can't seem to quickly identify the right players and get the deals done efficiently. Managerial changes and a world cup haven't helped this season but you've only got to look back at our midfield issues of the past 5 years to see its a common theme

 

[Bojan11]

CONCRETE links means actual verified stories in reliable sources...not fecking two bit hacks from the fecking red tops making shit up, for gods sake man, do you also think the page three birds are empowering women do you? fecking hell.

again, where is this money? WHERE IS IT? it's lining the fecking glazers pockets is where it is, whilst cretins like you lap up the rubbish Woodward feeds you.

all he sees is how to make money for his bosses, time you figured that out.



yup, it's why I am not buying any merch this year, no kit, nothing, feck the Glazers man, they are turning this club from one of the biggest & best in the world to a fecking joke of a team that creams their pants with money whilst doing feck all on the pitch.

That's the second time, I've seen you insult posters or people posting in the thread.

Why are you so aggressive? How the hell were you promoted?

 

[Igor Drefljak]

I wanted to write my feelings on our transfers, but didn't want to start a new threat, but also, didn't feel there was a topic for it.

Why are we struggling? I think it is down to two things.
1. The Board, Woodward etc only want to sign players if they feel it is for a fair price
2. When we have bought players of late, they have either been a failure, younger players not progressing, or players who just simply haven't even played for us

I remember a few years ago, Bayern Munich bought Javi Martinez for 34m, and in my opinion, people where shocked at the fee, myself included, but, he was a player they felt would improve their squad, and where happy that the fee was good enough.

We just seem like a club that want the best deal, but nothing else. An example currently is Rojo. We have bid 16m or so, which is delaying the deal, yet we won't pay the 24m buy out clause, which could have had the deal wrapped up already, and been an asset, especially while Shaw is out.

As for point number 2. When we have spent, it's always been on the wrong players, for different reasons.
Mata - Very good player, but it's already made a dilemma on how can we play Rooney, RVP and him
Fellaini - Just doesn't work for a style of play United should go for. Fans have fallen out with him, I don't think LVG wants him, clubs don't wanna spend on him
Kagawa - I just don't think he is suited to the high intensity and quality of the Premier league, but again, was played out of position so much due to Rooney and RVP
Zaha - Rarely played, still young, but I think he will be sold soon
Jones - Bought as the future of Uniteds defence. He just has not progressed at all. Spends to much time on the floor, and making last ditch challenges to recover from his own mistakes
Smalling - Again, in my opinion has never really progressed like he should have. There is a high regard for him on here, but I just don't think he has done that much
Bebe - Well, Bebe
Valencia - He started off well, but he has just regressed if anything. He was bought to replace Ronaldo, and I think that shows the intent of the club

They are the transfers from the last 5 seasons, If I look back, the likes of Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves, berbatov etc could have been thrown in there.
Our last really successful window was the 05/06 season, albeit no expensive players, but the right players.

In the last 5 seasons:
United - Spent 267m / Sold 49.5m / Net 217.5m
Chelsea - Spent 409.5m / Sold 193.5m / Net 216m
Liverpool - Spent 324m / Sold 222m / Net 102m
Arsenal - Spent 228.5m / Sold 156m / Net 72.5m

So when you look at them figures, it shows we get absolute no resale value on players, excluding Ronaldo. We buy the wrong players, at the wrong times (Position, Age etc)
Them teams all currently have better squads than us, yet our net is the highest, albeit 1m above Chelsea, but it is still higher

(I came in here with no posts, I dread to think how many have been posted by now )

 

[Godfather]

the sad thing is though that a lot of fans are idiots, they put up with the dismal transfer window last year, they put up with Moyes, they put up with the lack of signings this season...

need I go on?

This is the worrying thing. A bit of pressure from the fans could work miracles. But there is none. I don't know if it's the houlier than you attitude from the matchgoing fans or that they just don't give a feck.

If someone like Woodward would talk that much out of his arse at any other club there would be banners all over the stadium.

Wouldnt call them idiots though. But a bit inactive.

 

[Speak]

Absolutely. Take last year: Moyes wanted Baines and Fellaini, so we bid up to £30million for the pair. Instead of increasing the bid for both, we sign one of them for around £30 million.
We bid up to around £30 million for Fabregas and fail to go any higher, despite him apparently being a main target. The closest we got signing anyone else was on loan.
We then pull an Arsenal and 'bid' £100 million for Bale as he sits in the Madrid medical room.

Blame Moyes for turning down Thiago. Fair enough. But where was the increased bid for Fabregas? I refuse to believe Woodward was sat there with £100 million but choose not to bid higher just for a laugh.

This is all after losing Sir Alex Ferguson. Cardiff City spent more.


The best chance we have of signing Vidal for his value is if we find ourselves in sixth place come January. And it'll just paper over the fact that there's no real intention to spend what we should be spending (when the team needs it) unless we're in trouble.

 

[LoiusVanGaal]

That's the second time, I've seen you insult posters or people posting in the thread.

Why are you so aggressive? How the hell were you promoted?

if you think that's insulting you need to get out of your live in bubble more mate.

 

[Bojan11]

if you think that's insulting you need to get out of your live in bubble more mate.

What's that in English?

You called him a cretin, when he said nothing aggressive to you. You also called everyone posting in the Vidal thread complete tools.

 

[Speak]

We def have the money but the Glazers were spoilt under SAF. They think that's the norm but the football worlds a def place since then. I'm convinced if they said to Woodward 'it's an open cheque book', the players would be here if we were prepared to spend the money!!!!!!

Of course the players would be here. But it's nicer to pretend Woodward is somehow sitting there with £200 million but failing because he's stupid.

 

[Gee Male]

CONCRETE links means actual verified stories in reliable sources...not fecking two bit hacks from the fecking red tops making shit up, for gods sake man, do you also think the page three birds are empowering women do you? fecking hell.

again, where is this money? WHERE IS IT? it's lining the fecking glazers pockets is where it is, whilst cretins like you lap up the rubbish Woodward feeds you.

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!