Transfer Chat | Discussions about tweet sources etc.

I am a huge fan of Mbuemo. However from a logistics POV we're better off with Bruno as no 10 alongside Cunha and us buying a proper no 8 then trying to shoehorn Bruno in a no 8 role. Amorim's system demands a lot out of its base 2 CMs. I doubt Bruno can do that.

Agreed.

Adam Wharton would be ideal.

He fit's a lot of the criteria we are looking for, right age, Premier League proven. Has played in a double pivot at Palace and seems good at the defensive and offensive side of the game. He's orginally from Blackburn too, so would presumably be happy to move back up north.

I think he's got real scope to improve too.
Good points made. Got a specific CM in mind ?
 
In theory, I agree that the formation you listed looks effective, except that we have transitioned to wingbacks now and the likes of Dorgu are much more effective bombing down the sidelines into the final third, than they are defending imo. So that would likely require buying a new player or two to make the switch. Nevermind that Amorim is all in on 3-4-3, so that is likely what we will ride with as long as he's here.

Yes, good point and I thought I would mention that too, but Dorgu was bought a few months ago. In theory, we could have bought someone well suited for both systems instead of Dorgu. Ait Nouri have done both, and it is easy to picture that someone like Kerkez would be well suited for both systems. And I’m sure there are plenty more.

And if a player like Dorgu «only» can play LWB that too feels like a bit of a concern. Are we buying less flexible players to suit a less flexible coach? We have seen a team like Brentford change between both system due to flexible players.

I really like Amorim, but this is the one big red flag that makes me worry.
 
Yes, good point and I thought I would mention that too, but Dorgu was bought a few months ago. In theory, we could have bought someone well suited for both systems instead of Dorgu. Ait Nouri have done both, and it is easy to picture that someone like Kerkez would be well suited for both systems. And I’m sure there are plenty more.

And if a player like Dorgu «only» can play LWB that too feels like a bit of a concern. Are we buying less flexible players to suit a less flexible coach? We have seen a team like Brentford change between both system due to flexible players.

I really like Amorim, but this is the one big red flag that makes me worry.

I dont think Dorgu can only play LWB.

Lets face it, the way United have been playing, we look like a back 5, so no reason he couldn't play at a LB in a back four given more time in the PL and more time on his defensive game.

If you are a good player with the right technical attributes, you can adapt. Frimpong will be going from RWB to RB at Liverpool.
 
The meltdown over the fact that we might lose out on Mbeumo is hilarious. After 10 years of crazy spending I think it is save to say that no player alone will transform us. We need a couple of players with the right profile.
I simply want some progress in depth but I dont care who we get.
 
I don't think we will miss out on Mbeumo, but it seems half the caf have started speculating about what shirt number he'll wear at Spurs, based upon some very weak 2+2=5 journalism
 
If Spurs pay 70m for Mbuemo they are bonkers. I'd say 60 is pushing it and I'd rather us look elsewhere if it starts going above that
 
Wish that rumors about guys like Baleba, Wharton Hackney would pop up soon
 
Got to love Sky Sports spinning the Wirtz transfer ‘The German is not moving to Anfield for the money and Liverpool are not breaking the bank to sign him either.’

How is breaking the British transfer record it breaking the bank exactly?
 


As @golden_blunder asked this be taken to this thread, and just on the final "shot volume" point, here are some relevant striker ranked in terms of shot volume per 90 for their current clubs:

Osimhen: 5.19
Ekitike: 3.96
Gyokeres: 3.72
Sesko: 2.60
Delap: 2.29
Mateta: 2.29
Zirkzee: 1.79
Hojlund: 1.52

The league they play in has an impact, but not by as much as you might think.

For example, Osimhen got fewer shots when he played in Italy and Hojlund & Zirkzee got more. But Osimhen was still averaging 4.16, where Hojlund and Zirkzee were on 2.65 & 2.86.

The ability to generate shots is a trait in itself. Players might lose/gain an extra shot per game transferring between leagues but the general tendency to shoot in volume stays.

Another point to add to this is that what typically happens as strikers age is that they get fewer shots but the quality of the average shot they takes gets better. So with young players you'd prefer high shot volume, as it's more likely to decrease over time. And you care slightly less about shot quality, because that's more likely to improve. Which aligns with the way we generally tend to think of strikers making smarter decisions and becoming more efficient with age.

One of the potential issues with Hojlund that was flagged in advance of us signing him was that he was the opposite profile. A low-volume shooter who tended to get good quality chances. Which meant we were depending on him developing in an atypical way, getting more shots as he aged. Which can happen, but it's less predictable.
 
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Thank you. This is a highly ambitious move by Paris FC, and I'm surprised they're going after a player like Simon this soon. Hopefully they keep themselves sustainable.
Taking this here so we dont pollute the transfer threads and angry the mods to the point that they delete them, because that's how I follow transfers most of the time.

Financially they're weak since they havent been in Ligue 1 since forever but they have the advantage of being in Paris and having access to a decent sized stadium (20k seats) and they could grow very fast if they manage to avoid relegation for the next few years.
I'm biased since Moses is our best player, he's exciting and explosive and the only one to bring joy to la Beaujoire in the past 20 years. And he's loyal, he loves the club and the city and he has turned down moves to Saudi in the past 2 summers. He's been one of the best wingers in L1 for years and he's as safe as a bet you can find for a club like PFC. Smart move for them even though I really really hope it doesnt happen. And not for €5M, he's worth at least 20 but I'd let him leave for 12 or 15 as he's been a great servant to the club.
 
Taking this here so we dont pollute the transfer threads and angry the mods to the point that they delete them, because that's how I follow transfers most of the time.

Financially they're weak since they havent been in Ligue 1 since forever but they have the advantage of being in Paris and having access to a decent sized stadium (20k seats) and they could grow very fast if they manage to avoid relegation for the next few years.
I'm biased since Moses is our best player, he's exciting and explosive and the only one to bring joy to la Beaujoire in the past 20 years. And he's loyal, he loves the club and the city and he has turned down moves to Saudi in the past 2 summers. He's been one of the best wingers in L1 for years and he's as safe as a bet you can find for a club like PFC. Smart move for them even though I really really hope it doesnt happen. And not for €5M, he's worth at least 20 but I'd let him leave for 12 or 15 as he's been a great servant to the club.
Yeah, I was honestly expecting Moses Simon to step up to a bigger club, but if Paris FC are going to be this ambitious, then I can see why Simon would be attracted to such a move. They can become a well-established Ligue 1 side if they keep themselvse up, and I can see them attracting loads of players who aren't good enough for PSG. Where do you think Nantes will go after this? Last season, they did just enough to avoid a long-term relegation battle, but could they be dragged into one in the upcoming season?
 
Yeah, I was honestly expecting Moses Simon to step up to a bigger club, but if Paris FC are going to be this ambitious, then I can see why Simon would be attracted to such a move. They can become a well-established Ligue 1 side if they keep themselvse up, and I can see them attracting loads of players who aren't good enough for PSG. Where do you think Nantes will go after this? Last season, they did just enough to avoid a long-term relegation battle, but could they be dragged into one in the upcoming season?
I dont understand how no european club has ever looked at him, I'm very happy about this but he has literally fallen through the cracks despite being super consistent as one of the best wingers in L1. He's not good enough for the highest level but he's too good to be at Nantes this long. I honestly thought we were past him leaving as he's reaching 30, but as I said I would try to accomodate him as he's been loyal and in the past 20 years good players havent been loyal to us (I dont really blame them, we're a mess).

Our next season will largely depend on how the summer goes. Outside of Simon we have 3 very good young players who are all being recruited, Zézé by Bournemouth and italian clubs, Leroux by Monaco and Abline by Marseille and german clubs. I think Abline might go since the offers might be too good for our cheap president to refuse, but I really hope the other 2 stay or it's going to be a depressing season.
We have a new coach who's young and promising, I dont know much about his system, all I know he's the king of offside, his team last season had the highest offside rate of any team in Europe.
Either way we're a team that battles relegation every season, and that's going to be the case this season as well. If we manage to get a good start then we can reevaluate but I'm not too hopeful :lol: We still have the worst president in world football.
 
Either way we're a team that battles relegation every season, and that's going to be the case this season as well. If we manage to get a good start then we can reevaluate but I'm not too hopeful :lol: We still have the worst president in world football.
Many teams have incompetent leadership at the top, but as long as Nantes has a good coaching and playing staff, they should be able to work around him. It'll be tougher for them to continuously find good and/or promising young players to replace their current outgoing players, though. It seems like there's way more competition for those kind of players than there used to be.
 
Many teams have incompetent leadership at the top, but as long as Nantes has a good coaching and playing staff, they should be able to work around him. It'll be tougher for them to continuously find good and/or promising young players to replace their current outgoing players, though. It seems like there's way more competition for those kind of players than there used to be.
The problem is that he's been here for 20 years and nothing is changing. He thinks he's some kind of football genius who's incredibly unlucky but he's just dumb as a rock. He and his son are running the whole club, from transfers to coaching. They make transfers without consulting the coach, and they change coach once or twice every season because they dont do everything they say.

Anytime we produce a good player he sells them for cheap at the first opportunity because he's afraid of losing out on potential money. And we used to have the best academy in France and had a monopoly over the north-west part which is a big talent pool but he's let it go to waste and now Rennes is dominating the region and we're now a 2nd tier academy that produces one good player every other year.

I assume you know about the great history of the club so it's a depressing to see it being used to play real life Football Manager by a moron who's not even rich. My kids are PSG fans because we live in Paris and "why would we support Nantes when they always lose and you're always angry when you watch them". I hate Kita :mad:
 
The problem is that he's been here for 20 years and nothing is changing. He thinks he's some kind of football genius who's incredibly unlucky but he's just dumb as a rock. He and his son are running the whole club, from transfers to coaching. They make transfers without consulting the coach, and they change coach once or twice every season because they dont do everything they say.

Anytime we produce a good player he sells them for cheap at the first opportunity because he's afraid of losing out on potential money. And we used to have the best academy in France and had a monopoly over the north-west part which is a big talent pool but he's let it go to waste and now Rennes is dominating the region and we're now a 2nd tier academy that produces one good player every other year.

I assume you know about the great history of the club so it's a depressing to see it being used to play real life Football Manager by a moron who's not even rich. My kids are PSG fans because we live in Paris and "why would we support Nantes when they always lose and you're always angry when you watch them". I hate Kita :mad:
What a shame. Nantes doesn't deserve to be treated like this. There are way too many of these rich morons who think they know it all because they played FM one time and believe that they can do the same thing in real life. I still remember that one screenshot of Woodward playing FM on his laptop whilst on the plane.

In short, it seems like Nantes are one relegation away from being in big trouble and struggling to sustain themselves, right?
 
What a shame. Nantes doesn't deserve to be treated like this. There are way too many of these rich morons who think they know it all because they played FM one time and believe that they can do the same thing in real life. I still remember that one screenshot of Woodward playing FM on his laptop whilst on the plane.

In short, it seems like Nantes are one relegation away from being in big trouble and struggling to sustain themselves, right?
That's the thing, he's not even rich. I mean he's rich by normal standards (I think he's worth like €200M) but not by football owners standards. It's like Boehly at Chelsea except he's actually rich. I wouldnt mind as much if he was this loaded :lol:

We got relegated and always bounced back instantly, we're a midtable L1 club when it comes to finances so in L2 we're a titan. We have one of the biggest stadiums with a high attendance and there's still a huge area in the north-west where I grew up that is Nantes territory only.

We're stuck in that purgatory of battling relegation every season. The French Cup is our only hope at having any kind of success, our runs in 22 and 23 are my best memory in the past 20 years. The only way things will change is someone else buying the club.
 
That's the thing, he's not even rich. I mean he's rich by normal standards (I think he's worth like €200M) but not by football owners standards. It's like Boehly at Chelsea except he's actually rich. I wouldnt mind as much if he was this loaded :lol:

We got relegated and always bounced back instantly, we're a midtable L1 club when it comes to finances so in L2 we're a titan. We have one of the biggest stadiums with a high attendance and there's still a huge area in the north-west where I grew up that is Nantes territory only.

We're stuck in that purgatory of battling relegation every season. The French Cup is our only hope at having any kind of success, our runs in 22 and 23 are my best memory in the past 20 years. The only way things will change is someone else buying the club.
At least the club can be good enough to not sink further and further unless Kita decides to start taking money out of the club and into his pockets.
 
At least the club can be good enough to not sink further and further unless Kita decides to start taking money out of the club and into his pockets.
Yea the club is not in danger to be in Bordeaux's situation. I dont think he's the type to line his own pocket unless he is somehow desperate. He put quite a bit of money into the club when he bought it, made some big transfers but it failed badly and we got relegated. He quickly realized he didnt have the bankroll to play that game and since then he's been cheap but he still put a bit more money a couple times. I honestly think he wants to do right and thinks he does but he's just an idiot who does everything wrong and keeps doing it.
 
As @golden_blunder asked this be taken to this thread, and just on the final "shot volume" point, here are some relevant striker ranked in terms of shot volume per 90 for their current clubs:

Osimhen: 5.19
Ekitike: 3.96
Gyokeres: 3.72
Sesko: 2.60
Delap: 2.29
Mateta: 2.29
Zirkzee: 1.79
Hojlund: 1.52

The league they play in has an impact, but not by as much as you might think.

For example, Osimhen got fewer shots when he played in Italy and Hojlund & Zirkzee got more. But Osimhen was still averaging 4.16, where Hojlund and Zirkzee were on 2.65 & 2.86.

The ability to generate shots is a trait in itself. Players might lose/gain an extra shot per game transferring between leagues but the general tendency to shoot in volume stays.

Another point to add to this is that what typically happens as strikers age is that they get fewer shots but the quality of the average shot they takes gets better. So with young players you'd prefer high shot volume, as it's more likely to decrease over time. And you care slightly less about shot quality, because that's more likely to improve. Which aligns with the way we generally tend to think of strikers making smarter decisions and becoming more efficient with age.

One of the potential issues with Hojlund that was flagged in advance of us signing him was that he was the opposite profile. A low-volume shooter who tended to get good quality chances. Which meant we were depending on him developing in an atypical way, getting more shots as he aged. Which can happen, but it's less predictable.
This is really interesting, and a discussion that isn't had very much. In your analysis, how do you factor in the team around the striker? Are there good examples of striker's shot volumes increasing drastically when switching teams?

An example:
  • Both Højlund and Ekitike only had 2 seasons with 10+ full games before switching to their current clubs
  • Both had approx. 2 and 2.65 shots per 90 minutes in those season
  • From there their trajectories deviated a lot:
    • Ekitike shot up to 3.77 and 4.00 shots per 90 in his last 2 seasons
    • Højlund dropped to 1.58 and 1.44 shots per 90 in his last 2 seasons
Obviously, they have had different development trajectories, but the numbers from this small example would indicate the team matters quite a lot to how many shots you're taking. Also, as your data shows, Zirkzee and Højlund have a pretty similar number of shots per 90 for Manchester United, further indicating that playing for Manchester United is a pretty frustrating pursuit for any striker. Personally I attribute a lot of that to our #10s and WBs, which is why I'm very happy we're focusing so much on getting the #10s right. Garnacho in particular is exceptionally frustrating to watch with his 3.5 shots per 90 from crappy positions, instead of playing Dorgu or Højlund through.

For me, the main case for switching out Højlund is the fact that his contribution to our build up play is so poor. He can play a decent through ball from time to time, but he's very bad at receiving the ball with his back to goal. In the beginning I felt he was getting fouled a lot (and just wasn't getting the calls), but now I'm resigned to the fact that he's just really bad at holding off defenders, so can't seem to bring others into play in any consistent way.
 
That would be a successful window in my eyes.

Picking up a handful of up and coming youngsters would also be great

There is a huge hole in midfield. We cannot go into the season with Casemiro, Ugarte, Bruno, Mainoo and Collyer as midfield option. We’d have a similar season to this year in my view. I’d much rather we didn’t sign Mbeumo, use Bruno and Mainoo as the other 10,, and buy a natural CM.
 
The word "saga" has seemingly lost all meaning now.

I'm seeing entirely undramatic transfer stories described as "sagas" now, some which have only been ongoing for a few days.
 
Seems like we’re struggling to get any bites for our list of players for sale. Feels very much like we should reduce the transfer fee in order to shift them

Eg. I think Italian teams might bite at 15m for Sancho and 30m for Rashford
 
tumbleweed

Has anything "tier 1" actually been reported this week other than what has already been already stated? (no "working on", "preparing", "enquired" things)
 
Seems like we’re struggling to get any bites for our list of players for sale. Feels very much like we should reduce the transfer fee in order to shift them

Eg. I think Italian teams might bite at 15m for Sancho and 30m for Rashford
You'd struggle to get them to offer 15m lira
 
Seems like we’re struggling to get any bites for our list of players for sale. Feels very much like we should reduce the transfer fee in order to shift them

Eg. I think Italian teams might bite at 15m for Sancho and 30m for Rashford
Not really surprised about Sancho and Rashford because of wages and Garnacho because of the asking price, but the lack of rumours around Antony is weird. Out of all the offensive rejects you loaned he had the best season and is on affordable wages, there should be more clubs interested. I wonder what kind of fee the club is asking for him.
 
tumbleweed

Has anything "tier 1" actually been reported this week other than what has already been already stated? (no "working on", "preparing", "enquired" things)

It’s worryingly quiet at the moment. Other than Mbuemo there doesn’t seem to be any solid links to anybody else. Given the awful state of our squad, I was hoping to have heard more and seen a bit more activity at this point.

We need @Sassy Colin and his “Wot, no transfers?” thread. That usually jinxes something out into the open.
 
In the last few days I have read reports of the club's and Amo's faith in Zirkzee, Hojlund, Onana and Ugarte....Yay!

Who is next?
 
In the last few days I have read reports of the club's and Amo's faith in Zirkzee, Hojlund, Onana and Ugarte....Yay!

Who is next?
Are you expecting him to say that he thinks they're hopeless and have no long-term role here? Think that'd be good for the prospects of selling them?
 
Are you expecting him to say that he thinks they're hopeless and have no long-term role here? Think that'd be good for the prospects of selling them?
Sure as hell isn't helping sell Garnacho. If Nunez goes to Napoli I think you can close the door on him leaving the PL. Isak would probably move to Liverpool and then I can see Newcastle going after a ST that we might want
 
Sure as hell isn't helping sell Garnacho. If Nunez goes to Napoli I think you can close the door on him leaving the PL. Isak would probably move to Liverpool and then I can see Newcastle going after a ST that we might want
Exactly. Shitting on our players in public is clearly counterproductive. Not sure why so many seem to want him to do it.
 
Are you expecting him to say that he thinks they're hopeless and have no long-term role here? Think that'd be good for the prospects of selling them?
Exposing the likes of Hojlund on the world stage week in-week out has done much more damage to their value (and the results) than benching them citing ´not suited to the system´.
 
How important is it to:

Make more off transfer fees VS Clearing out bad locker room / Club culture influences?

Firmly in the camp that the latter is more important. Bite the bullet, accept the bids after some negotiation but don't walk away from any sales.
 
How important is it to:

Make more off transfer fees VS Clearing out bad locker room / Club culture influences?

Firmly in the camp that the latter is more important. Bite the bullet, accept the bids after some negotiation but don't walk away from any sales.
Latte for me too. Best to get bad influences away from the squad asap
 
For me “athletic Midfielder” always means Defensive midfielder, and that’s what I want to believe in this case too

So another shin kicker. Didn’t we buy one of those last summer? One that the current manager has worked with before? With 5 defenders, I think we need to focus on actual ball players in those front 5 positions.
 
think after M'Buemo it will be sales before further signings

we have to be patient on that
 

We’ve already got one…
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