Transfers based on software

Resch

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goal.com has an artical about United. We had the chance to sign Boateng and Felix but refused because of a new software, which has been included into the new scouting system. The analysing tool saw Boatang as too slow afer the 70th minute and Felix too weak for the PL.
United had no working scouting system over the last years, but should United sign or not sign someone based on a software? Think of Messi, a small boy, too small for football as a teen, now the best player in the world. Use a software and he would have been a no go because of his size. Life is not that easy....
What do you think?

https://www.goal.com/de/meldungen/m...oao-felix-scouting/1bwerrvnriq6c1ir1cwm2ux4p8
 

AltiUn

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Was the software footy manager?
 

Cassidy

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Most clubs are doing this now, United are late to the party. It is only something which is added to the data on the player though not a definitive thing which makes the decision.
 

ivaldo

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It isn’t making a decision based on software though is it? It’s a tool they used that probably backs up existing concerns.
 

Schneckerl

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Is that really how it happened and not just some clickbait exaggeration?
I'm sure most clubs use some kind of advanced analytics to assists (not flat out decide) their transfers these days.
 

Steve Bruce

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goal.com has an artical about United. We had the chance to sign Boateng and Felix but refused because of a new software, which has been included into the new scouting system. The analysing tool saw Boatang as too slow afer the 70th minute and Felix too weak for the PL.
United had no working scouting system over the last years, but should United sign or not sign someone based on a software? Think of Messi, a small boy, too small for football as a teen, now the best player in the world. Use a software and he would have been a no go because of his size. Life is not that easy....
What do you think?

https://www.goal.com/de/meldungen/m...oao-felix-scouting/1bwerrvnriq6c1ir1cwm2ux4p8
To be honest, I'm not one for thinking software should make decisions but it could be useful in helping with the decision. You still need people to watch players and analyse the good and bad parts of said player. I also think it was right about Boateng. Terrible signing that would be. Not sure Felix would be the answer either for us.
 

MrPooni

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goal.com has an artical about United. We had the chance to sign Boateng and Felix but refused because of a new software, which has been included into the new scouting system. The analysing tool saw Boatang as too slow afer the 70th minute and Felix too weak for the PL.
United had no working scouting system over the last years, but should United sign or not sign someone based on a software? Think of Messi, a small boy, too small for football as a teen, now the best player in the world. Use a software and he would have been a no go because of his size. Life is not that easy....
What do you think?

https://www.goal.com/de/meldungen/m...oao-felix-scouting/1bwerrvnriq6c1ir1cwm2ux4p8
This info was taken from a piece in The Athletic and the process is far more involved than you're making out here. The software is purely supplemental and only started being employed recently after we got burned by the likes of Schweinsteiger and Sanchez. Not sure if it's brought up in this goal piece but the club has also started employing spies/private investigators to do background checks on targets too after we discovered Rojo was close to being jailed after we signed him for a couple of assaults. The club didn't have a clue until a member of staff happened to Google his name after the fact.
 
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Varun

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It'd be stupid not to use the abundance of data available now. As @Cassidy said, its one of the factors that goes into the decision making process, not a Yes/No mechanism on its own.
 

WR10

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goal.com has an artical about United. We had the chance to sign Boateng and Felix but refused because of a new software, which has been included into the new scouting system. The analysing tool saw Boatang as too slow afer the 70th minute and Felix too weak for the PL.
United had no working scouting system over the last years, but should United sign or not sign someone based on a software? Think of Messi, a small boy, too small for football as a teen, now the best player in the world. Use a software and he would have been a no go because of his size. Life is not that easy....
What do you think?

https://www.goal.com/de/meldungen/m...oao-felix-scouting/1bwerrvnriq6c1ir1cwm2ux4p8
I think it's naive to think that a fully implemented software would have glaringly obvious shortcomings to a multi-billion dollar company.
 

Teja

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The problem is you can get data to say whatever you want it to say, so data and software is only as good as the person interpreting it. If you're an old school english pundit and you think Felix is too light for the PL, you can use data to prove that.

The real value is not in simplistic analyses like is player x slow after 70 min but having a tactical system, being able to define the properties a player should have in the system in terms of data and then using data to find diamonds in the rough.

Liverpool's moneyball approach was very well written about here: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/22/magazine/soccer-data-liverpool.html
 

FrankDrebin

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My,this foreign lad (Messi) looks highly promising. Should we sign him ?
 

Resch

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Using data to make the right desicion is a good thing. Boateng is slowing down after the 70th minute is a good information. But desicion of not buying Felix, because he is too weak, reminds me of some american sport analytics, who formed the perfect quaterback based on data and now have a tamplet how he has to look. Perfect size, perfect wingspan...... But it does not work this way, just look at Messi!
 

OverratedOpinion

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Well I'm pleased we didn't sign Boateng or Felix (for £120m anyway) so maybe it is working.

I actually think that out of all our underperformance players the new signings have done okay so far this season.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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goal.com has an artical about United. We had the chance to sign Boateng and Felix but refused because of a new software, which has been included into the new scouting system. The analysing tool saw Boatang as too slow afer the 70th minute and Felix too weak for the PL.
United had no working scouting system over the last years, but should United sign or not sign someone based on a software? Think of Messi, a small boy, too small for football as a teen, now the best player in the world. Use a software and he would have been a no go because of his size. Life is not that easy....
What do you think?

https://www.goal.com/de/meldungen/m...oao-felix-scouting/1bwerrvnriq6c1ir1cwm2ux4p8
Jerome Boateng?

Goal.com?

Nah, I'm out.
 

Lash

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Weird two examples to get worked up over. Boateng would have been awful and there's nothing to suggest that wouldnt be the case with felix. Not to mention we'd have spent 120m on someone with a potential glaring weakness, appropriate for the league.
 

Born2Lose

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As idiotic as Woodward is, I'm not sure he's telling our scouts "Computer says no"
 

HTG

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Depending on the accuracy of the software, which should obviously be tested before being put to use, I'd happily fire most scouts from any club. I hardly believe a biased human being can constantly deliver better results than a functioning software.
 

adexkola

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Depending on the accuracy of the software, which should obviously be tested before being put to use, I'd happily fire most scouts from any club. I hardly believe a biased human being can constantly deliver better results than a functioning software.
Some people actually believe this
 

HTG

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Some people actually believe this
Though it must be said that a software can be biased. It really depends on how it was programmed. But again, that's why it should be carefully tested. But I guess that should be no issue, as one could easily track players at other clubs and the progress they make.
 

VeevaVee

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Depending on the accuracy of the software, which should obviously be tested before being put to use, I'd happily fire most scouts from any club. I hardly believe a biased human being can constantly deliver better results than a functioning software.
I wouldn't go that far. Stats are from the be all and end all. It needs to be a mixture of both until software can analyse actual game footage.
 

adexkola

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Though it must be said that a software can be biased. It really depends on how it was programmed. But again, that's why it should be carefully tested. But I guess that should be no issue, as one could easily track players at other clubs and the progress they make.
Of course.

My wider point is people not able to see the fallacy of their own biases, and how unbiased data or unbiased information can help correct it. The common retort to using such information is "watch the game", as if that provides you with a less biased perspective.
 

adexkola

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I wouldn't go that far. Stats are from the be all and end all. It needs to be a mixture of both until software can analyse actual game footage.
It can. Probably is, right now. A lot of this stuff is proprietary. Actual live game plays are analyzed by casuals in other sports like the NBA
 

VeevaVee

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It can. Probably is, right now. A lot of this stuff is proprietary. Actual live game plays are analyzed by casuals in other sports like the NBA
Do you have more info on it doing so at the moment? I wouldn't have thought there'd be software good enough yet.
 

Van Piorsing

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It's just a huge database that can offer suggestions, while same people are still in control of final decisions.

Not a bad idea, honestly, but only if the coaching staff will be properly prepared to develop suggested talents.
 

shamans

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Some people actually believe this
Depending on the accuracy of the software, which should obviously be tested before being put to use, I'd happily fire most scouts from any club. I hardly believe a biased human being can constantly deliver better results than a functioning software.
As someone who has coded decision handling software (for credit card fraud) it's not like high tech robots sitting there seeing 1000's of insights humans can't. It's scalable but a human is always a better decision maker
 

HTG

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As someone who has coded decision handling software (for credit card fraud) it's not like high tech robots sitting there seeing 1000's of insights humans can't. It's scalable but a human is always a better decision maker
I don't want the software to make the decisions, I want the software to deliver the data and on that I'd base the decisions.
 

Untied

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To be honest this is actually good news if it implies we actually have a functional analytics department.
 

King Eric 7

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So I guess we were using the BETA version of the software when we bought Alexis and Fred?
 

nutmegrush

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There was something in The Athletic on this and the fact JB was prone to fade and become vulnerable beyond 70 mins, and that JF needed to show more to prove he wasn’t a flash in the pan.
 

Leftback99

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Good to see we're at least trying to catch up with modern approaches.
 

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I think its fine to look at stats and software, Liverpool use stats too and they've been successful.

However I'm not sure how the strength thing works. How do they determine that hes too weak for the premier league? How and where was that measured, how do we have the data and whats the recommended level for an attacker in the premier league? I can see how you measure speed on a football pitch, but strength?