Trent Alexander Arnold

Klopper76

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I think we probably just need a new name for the position he, Cancelo and others are playing now because judging him on traditional fullback qualities makes no sense. It seems like the new “Libero” position, they start from deep but connect all phases of play, they’re given the freedom to step in and pounce when the space opens up, and they’re one of the chief playmakers. They just play where the space is, back in the 70s it was through the middle as a sweeper, now it’s just exploiting the space mostly abandoned by wingers now.
Yeah this is true. Alexander-Arnold, Cancelo & James seem to have created their own position. I'd say Robertson is more of a traditional marauding LB by comparison.
I think it goes a bit deeper than that. I don’t think you will win another league with the way you play with Trent. You’ll give up too many silly goals over a season to overcome City and maybe Chelsea.
Maybe but that's partly because City and Chelsea are also incredibly well coached sides as well. Either or both of them might end up on 90+ points.
 

Klopper76

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Not so sure. They also have the best attack as it stands and that correlates with league wins more than defence does. And they still have approx. the third best defence in the league.
Is that true? I always find it best to back the strongest defense when it comes to title challengers.
 

sullydnl

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Is that true? I always find it best to back the strongest defense when it comes to title challengers.
The stat I have is from an article in 2017:

Since 1995/96, the average champions have ranked 1.45 out of 20 teams for their goals scored, compared to an average rank of 2.41 for goals conceded. In total, 14 out of 22 champions have had the strongest attack during the respective season - but only nine have had the best defence.
Then looking at the title winners from 2018 on:

18/19 - City- 1st for attack, 2nd for defence.
19/20 - Liverpool - 2nd for attack, 1st for defence.
20/21 - City - 1st for attack, 1st for defence.

So the balance skews towards attack overall.

Ferguson in particular having bucked the idea that defence wins you titles on a few occasions:

Manchester United only had the seventh best defence when they won the title in 1996/97, shipping 44 goals - Blackburn conceded fewer and finished in 13th place.
And Fergie continued in the same vein, having only the fourth best defence in 1998/99, the sixth best in 1999/00 and fifth best in 2012/13. In each of those title-winning seasons, United scored more goals than any other team.
Also think it's slightly interesting to see where Liverpool thus far this season compare with the 19/20 side in terms of actual goals and xG.

19/20 actual goals: 2nd for attack, 1st for defence.
19/20 xG: 2nd for attack, 5th for defence.

21/22 actual goals: 1st for attack, 4th for defence.
21/22 xG: 1st for attack, 3rd for defence.

If anything I would possibly argue that Liverpool are more likely to win the league with the way ye're currently playing. Though that's a big possibly.
 

predator

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What a fecking strike his goal tonight was. I knew he had a good shot on him but never really saw him lace it like that before. He is usually more of a side foot (curl) striker of the ball.

I'd love to have our rb scoring goals like that. Dalot looks like he has a decent ish strike and awb has shown on some occasions he can shoot (Newcastle goal) but not sure if that was just a one off.
My sort of goal that.
 

Klopper76

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Didn't think he had a good game personally tonight but the goal was good. His passing was rubbish overall.
 

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He plays like David Beckham. I watch him sometimes and I see some passes he does outside foot, instep, volleys ,dissecting through the midfield right across to Robertson, changing the emphasis of attack. Very difficult to do anything about him unless you start man marking a fullback.
 

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I wonder if some of our young players need a change of positions.

If Garner doesn't makenit as a midfielder - who knows if his passing and crossing can be good out wider etc.

Not saying it would work but it's obvious that TAA was good in one position and now playing like that out wide.
 

F-A-C-T-S

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I wonder if some of our young players need a change of positions.

If Garner doesn't makenit as a midfielder - who knows if his passing and crossing can be good out wider etc.

Not saying it would work but it's obvious that TAA was good in one position and now playing like that out wide.
Of course it's possible he could be good in another position but there are so many variables that would work against it.
1) How can you justify trying out a young midfielder at RB at United?
2) Which coach is willing to risk his career like that.
3) Do the fans have the patience to endure the mistakes a young RB WILL make. Remember that 2-1 when Rashford had his way with Trent? Those are tough performances to recover from.

There are more issues that will ensure trying a young midfielder at RB doesn't happen this is even before the, is he good enough, how is he physically, mentally and all of that.
It's just so much safer and easier for the club to spend 50m on a guy who has been playing that position and is tried and tested.

If I remember correctly with Trent Liverpool had Clyne out for a long time and Milner was playing LB? And that fast tracked his chances in that side.
 

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He plays like David Beckham. I watch him sometimes and I see some passes he does outside foot, instep, volleys ,dissecting through the midfield right across to Robertson, changing the emphasis of attack. Very difficult to do anything about him unless you start man marking a fullback.
Very much so. He is the the closest I've seen to Becks.
 

Bale Bale Bale

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I still remember watching England's U17s and TAA was mainly a sub. He was behind James Yates(now of Witton Albion :lol: ) at RB and behind Tom Davies and Herbie Kane in midfield. Funny how things work out.
 

B20

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Of course it's possible he could be good in another position but there are so many variables that would work against it.
1) How can you justify trying out a young midfielder at RB at United?
2) Which coach is willing to risk his career like that.
3) Do the fans have the patience to endure the mistakes a young RB WILL make. Remember that 2-1 when Rashford had his way with Trent? Those are tough performances to recover from.

There are more issues that will ensure trying a young midfielder at RB doesn't happen this is even before the, is he good enough, how is he physically, mentally and all of that.
It's just so much safer and easier for the club to spend 50m on a guy who has been playing that position and is tried and tested.

If I remember correctly with Trent Liverpool had Clyne out for a long time and Milner was playing LB? And that fast tracked his chances in that side.
he was a midfielder at the time. Moved to Rightback because the coaching staff felt that was his best chance of making his way into the first team, given the players in the different positions at the time.

Milner hadn't yet been asked to play fullback at that time.

Of course, at united currently you'd think there ought to be a decent pathway into central midfield for a sufficiently talented player...
 

Lecland07

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It is absolutely mad that he doesn't get into the England team. Any other national team, he would be in the first team.

18 games (total games) - 2 goals and 10 assists for a wing back is ridiculous.

At the moment, he is on course for 17 assists in the Premier League, alone
 

B20

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It is absolutely mad that he doesn't get into the England team. Any other national team, he would be in the first team.

18 games (total games) - 2 goals and 10 assists for a wing back is ridiculous.

At the moment, he is on course for 17 assists in the Premier League, alone
Also way out on his own when it comes to chance creation.

And that's besides how much he influences the build-up. The post above who likened him to a libero from right back is not far off imo.
 

giorno

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He plays like David Beckham. I watch him sometimes and I see some passes he does outside foot, instep, volleys ,dissecting through the midfield right across to Robertson, changing the emphasis of attack. Very difficult to do anything about him unless you start man marking a fullback.
He plays like treble season David Beckham. Starts from the right then moves inside to act as a CAM

One more reason why talking about player's positions means very little in 2021
 

giorno

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It is absolutely mad that he doesn't get into the England team. Any other national team, he would be in the first team.
Southgate wants a strong, solid defensive block. In attack he relies mostly on individual quality and with Sterling, Kane, Graelish, Foden, Mount, Saka, etc he has enough he doesn't have to bother finding a way to make TAA work

Would be easier if he had pacier CBs, or if he changed his views 180° and went balls to the wall on overwhelming teams with the attack
 

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It is absolutely mad that he doesn't get into the England team. Any other national team, he would be in the first team.

18 games (total games) - 2 goals and 10 assists for a wing back is ridiculous.

At the moment, he is on course for 17 assists in the Premier League, alone
And Reece James is on course for 22 goals and assists this season by the same measure.
 

sullydnl

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And Reece James is on course for 22 goals and assists this season by the same measure.
One looks a lot more sustainable than the other though.

In the PL:

TAA - 2 goals & 7 assists / 1.7xG & 5.9xA

Reece James: 4 goals & 5 assists / 1.7xG & 3.3xA
 

Classical Mechanic

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One looks a lot more sustainable than the other though.

In the PL:

TAA - 2 goals & 7 assists / 1.7xG & 5.9xA

Reece James: 4 goals & 5 assists / 1.7xG & 3.3xA
That's true. I didn't really think that James will hit those numbers which would be incredible. It's possible that Trent could hit 17 assists but then I wouldn't be too surprised if Reece hit 17 G+A given he's on 9 already.

From an England point of view no matter how you look at it Trent has never really turned up. Even when the team was effectively built around him he was unremarkable. The other thing is that James is better defensively than him. Look to the 2021 CL final, James was the best player on the pitch along with Kante. James shut down the City left hand side registering 7 tackles in that game. It's hard to imagine Trent doing that in a big high tension game.
 

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TAA would definitely struggle in a team that has to do a lot of defending.

Unfortunately he doesn't play for a team like that....
 

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TAA would definitely struggle in a team that has to do a lot of defending.

Unfortunately he doesn't play for a team like that....
I mean it is the job of a coach to implement a style that adorns the strengths of his best players, so kind of a moot point.
 

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His defensive skills are developed so much in this season.I think he is a lot better in 1on1 situations and tackling abilities.He has a lot of times to improve himself in other categories.
 

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Of course he'd say that, its such an easy thing to say to further endear yourself to your supporters.

Though if such a ludicrous dilemma actually presented itself I doubt he'd opt to retire. We all remember Alan Smith's famously claiming he'd never play for us :smirk:
 

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As good as he is going forward, I don't think it is a coincidence that in the games where Liverpool are exposed, the heat maps show his side of the field getting zeroed in on.
A liability at the back imo, but has a heck of a cross on him.

I'd go for James over him for England for those reasons, not like James can't create to an extent.
 

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Is he not fit at the moment? watching Lookman run off him for the goal and the way he just let him go was shocking
 

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Is he not fit at the moment? watching Lookman run off him for the goal and the way he just let him go was shocking
No, unfortunately that's the other side of Trent. That chart shows how important he is up front but at the back is brick shitting.
 

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I get that, but that was schoolboy stuff, Lookman is fast but not that fast, he tracks him and I'm not sure Lookman scores that
That’s the thing though as a right back he doesn’t seem to be able to do the defensive side as consistently as his attacking game.

He gives up on tackling lookman and then ball watches after the pass is made. Might be a case of a right back who is so important going forward that he’s feeling why should I track back? Which is ridiculous (and probably wrong) but that goal looks horrendous for him.
 

Thunderhead

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That’s the thing though as a right back he doesn’t seem to be able to do the defensive side as consistently as his attacking game.

He gives up on tackling lookman and then ball watches after the pass is made. Might be a case of a right back who is so important going forward that he’s feeling why should I track back? Which is ridiculous (and probably wrong) but that goal looks horrendous for him.
Agreed, I'm not sure what will happen to him, he's still young enough to develop defensively but if probably do a Bale with him and move him forward but the problem is Salah is in front of him at the moment, it's a conundrum for Klopp, not sure how he solves it
 

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Tonight is why Southgate doesn’t trust him. Absolutely no intention of tracking runners and he cost his team badly tonight.
 

Klopper76

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Definitely lacking in the defensive area of his game. He does bring so much good going forward. I'd argue that his pros outweigh his cons overall. He isn't bad enough defensively that it makes his good offensive play redundant.
 

Zen

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Everyone goes after the TAA/Salah side, it's too obvious.

But Liverpool's biggest win, like say - Utd, Arsenal, Southampton etc - none of them opponents were overly aggressive with it at all. If I put every heatmap for this season on here.... Utd's stands out like a sore thumb, at least Arsenal and Southampton kinda tried.

Leicester today ... and almost everyone else, depending on aggression of it.


United....Ole didn't even try.
 

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TAA is a little slow when defending. His long legs aren't great for acceleration, so he doesn't like quick dribblers like Lookman, Sterling etc, but he doesn't fancy the long runs either. Thomas carrying the ball easily outpaced him in a 40 yard foot race, and what does TAA do, he just gives up and becomes a man down. A man like Milner would lose just as badly, if not worse, in a similar foot race, but he wouldn't give up, and when the attacker has to make a move inwards or combine with another attacker, you are back in the game. Maybe TAA is told to reserve energy defending, but it does cost them from time to time. Lucky to have Matip next to him, who really is underrated.
 

Klopper76

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To those saying he should be moved higher up the pitch, if that happens he loses a lot of the space he has to operate in currently. At RB he's less likely to have someone marking him whereas at RW, he'd probably have teams doubled up like Salah does. He's playing a bit more centrally than Robertson when we have the ball and finds a lot of space there.

We scored a goal against Atletico where Alexander-Arnold played the cross in. He had the space for that because Salah and Henderson ahead of him were occupying Madrid players. If he's playing at RW then he doesn't have the same space.

He could maybe play at RWB in a 3-5-2 but Klopp is never going to switch to that. He loves his 4-3-3.