I’ve always believed that winning the Cup Winners Cup the following season against Barca was as important as we’d been a cup team for a decade at that point and won more FA Cups that anyone during that decade but we finished 5th the season we won in Europe so winning our first European trophy in nearly 25 years really cemented Sir Alex with the United hierarchy, the first game I ever went to was the 1990 FA Cup final though.
Trophies as monumentally important to the club as this season’s Europa League?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Completely agree with both statements.
I think, the actual meaning is a bit overstated in here, understandably so, not gonna lie but I think we should make sure, it doesn't create an even more destructive atmosphere as there possibly already is. The team isn't getting better just by adding more pressure. They all are aware that this season is quite shitshow, adding more meaning to it, I don't see what exactly this should change. Best case scenario, it increases the overall intensity. Thats would be great, but when it comes with more tenseness then I think it isn't worth it.
There is still an underlying assumption that only the best of the best players will be able to help mighty Man United but I don't think thats the case. The important thing is to buy smart and get the right profiles in - skill set wise, age wise and character wise. This isn't the time to try to go head to head against Real or Bayern for the worlds most talented 18 year old or for the latest hyped up CB.
We were 8th. I wasn’t alive at the time but still, it must have felt so awesome to sign him and to ultimately win the league. The transfer window should still be open all season round; why did they insert the current rules in 2002 or whenever?
I can agree with that. I feel that if we win the Europa League this season a similar thing could (hopefully) happen.
It’s all about receuitment. Last time we won the Europa we bought Lukakau, Lindelof, Matic and Alexis for nearly 200m combined. Getting the recruitment right this summer and beyond is way more important than the Europa or the Champions League at the moment.
Reminds me of the season where we won it under Mourinho. Although not as bad, I remember it just being a shitfest of a season (for our standards/expectations at that time) where there was this weird 'why are we so reliant and confident betting all our eggs in the Europa League?!'. There was a certain inevitability (about our win) then but I'm not sure I share the same confidence this time around.
The thing is, even if we do win it, whilst I will definitely enjoy the feck out of it, at the back of my head I will dreading another false dawn. Just like how it was with Mourinho and ETH. Big cup wins but terrible football preceding it that showed we were not about to become a dominant, progressive or possession based team the following season. Same as today.
I want Amorim to do well obviously and he talks the talk but we've been down this road too many times. I have hope and I'll still keep hoping except but we all know it's just blind faith atm.
The thing is, even if we do win it, whilst I will definitely enjoy the feck out of it, at the back of my head I will dreading another false dawn. Just like how it was with Mourinho and ETH. Big cup wins but terrible football preceding it that showed we were not about to become a dominant, progressive or possession based team the following season. Same as today.
I want Amorim to do well obviously and he talks the talk but we've been down this road too many times. I have hope and I'll still keep hoping except but we all know it's just blind faith atm.
You need blind faith to support Manchester United these years, though.
We are calm. We are cool. There is a plan. In fact there are two plans; one of we qualify for CL, another if not. It’s a bit early for us in the coming season; the pressure of two games a week the very different demands of CL and Prem. But great to be in the equation, with a bright new manager and hopefully an upgraded team. C’mon United.
I think it's monumentally important, to the point where I don't think we are able to support Amorim to the extent he requires in the coming windows without it. Genuinely make or break.
I think it's massively important if we're serious on MUGA (making United great again). Winning it will make us suddenly appear more attractive again for players to come, and also for our current crop to believe in the Amorim rebuild.
There are some advantages to not being in Europe next year. Yes it leaves the club with less money for transfers but on the flip side we wouldn't need to have a squad with as much depth. It would give Amorim breathing space to pick his best 11 every week, reduce travel time on players and (you'd hope) reduce injuries.
It's one of those catch 22 things where I think we would finish higher in the league next season if we didn't win the Europa League. See Newcastle this season.
That being said this club exists to win trophies and play in the Champions League so I bloody hope we do it.
It's one of those catch 22 things where I think we would finish higher in the league next season if we didn't win the Europa League. See Newcastle this season.
That being said this club exists to win trophies and play in the Champions League so I bloody hope we do it.
Don't think it will have any impact in the long run, next 3-4 years, but it is very important to save this horrible season and maybe the next, by giving us some momentum and belief in Amorim. Also the money is important and the fact that we will play again in the CL.
By the looks of it, we never know when we will qualify again in Europe from the league, nevermind the CL.
Having fewer games next season by not playing in any European competition, will not be an advantage, as we have seen it before, even with Amorim, the results didn't get better when we had the mid week of.
By the looks of it, we never know when we will qualify again in Europe from the league, nevermind the CL.
Having fewer games next season by not playing in any European competition, will not be an advantage, as we have seen it before, even with Amorim, the results didn't get better when we had the mid week of.
Qualifying for the champions league makes it easier to sign players, brings in the cash and we get more prestigious fixtures. The downside is we will have tougher European games and no doubt suffer in the league whereas with out any european games we may have a stronger domestic season. Who knows? Short term though it has been a feckin horrible season and if we somehow manage to get past Bilbo and go on to win the thing it will be a great ending to the season and give everyone involved at the club a massive boost. Still a long way to go though.
I have to be honest and say I was not overly impressed when we signed Eric.
We were struggling and I genuinely didn't think he was going to be the guy to turn it around. I know he won the league with Leeds but we had basically handed that title to them on a plate.
It was of course awesome to win the league but for me retaining it in 94 was even better.
But still nice to win the FA Cup, plus the possibility of EL win in next two games.
Could be a better return than what some other teams have been gunning for.
Have always felt that Cech injury really hit them hard after a strong start and understandably so
Winning the EL has the potential do more harm than good. I realize the financial implications of missing out on CL are significant. But I just don’t think we have our act together yet still from the top down. Scraping into the CL now might encourage the brass to make more poor purchases in an effort to make a run on all fronts next season which could end up in a truly disastrous season and even bigger mess of a squad situation.
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If the new leadership is rash and incompetent enough to do that, failing to make the CL won't magically turn them into a competent, forward-thinking bunch.
It could potentially provide the wake up call needed for them to finally get their sh!t together. At the very least it would limit the amount of further damage they could do. I mean look at where we are. We should be circling the wagons and taking a long look at just how we got here. Qualifying for CL next season could completely paper over the cracks and encourage more of the same.
It’s important because it’s clearly part of a plan to work our way up through the trophies year by year:
2023 league cup
2024 FA cup
2025 Europa
2026 Champions League
2027 Premier League
2028 Charity Shield
2023 league cup
2024 FA cup
2025 Europa
2026 Champions League
2027 Premier League
2028 Charity Shield
Worst case is simply we go out at the earliest opportunity in the CL, I think you earn more money from that alone than winning the Europa. Less matches but way more money. We'd then just focus on domestic cups/league and we'd be much richer.
No worst case is we marginalize the PL again due to a decent run in Europe, don’t win anything and are in a similar position to where we are now with no Europe to show for it and a summer’s worth of players who were purchased to play Amorim’s system.
We've only focused on the EL the last game really though, it's not teams ever do that until they get very late in the comps. If next season we're 15th and in the semis of the CL with a 3-0 aggregate advantage I think people will be ecstatic whilst also finding it hilarious. I get the point on transfers, that is lower risk to me simply because the difficulty in the system is you don't really get players who are specifically wing backs or double tens or outside CBs, you just get good players and put them in those roles. I doubt there'll be any player, should Amorim go, who suddenly can't play their best role.
Mate I said a decent run so knockout stage. Not 3-0 up in the semis. And if we’re bottom half again next season not only will I not laugh I don’t care if we do a cup treble I want a new manager. The league should be our bread and butter every season. Re transfers I sincerely hope you are right but I am not so sure.
Yes, and I do think a win would be huge for the club, but it's important to note that a win also means salaries of players on the roster already rise by ~£50M or £60M supposedly? So much of the revenue rise will go to our current players, rather than all be incremental money we can spend on the roster.
It still matters because the UCL (and the money that comes with it) helps attract players in the first place, but the raw revenue number can overstate things.
He was absolutely never the same and even a liability at times after that injury.
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For me, winning any trophy, anytime, ('in style' preferably' ) is what we are all about, whether it be leagues, cups (home and abroad).
We are the 'glory boys' and always have been, 'glory, glory Man United... and the reds go marching on' it's in our DNA!
I suppose for me (and perhaps many other United fans) the great adventure and search for all silverware (available to us) really began when Matt Busby defied the Football League establishment, and took us into the European Cup (1956) (in what is now the Champions League) and he brought that piece of silverware back to England 1968.
In my life time (except for 1908/1911.. I'm not that old) we have won:-
Domestically:-
13 Premier League titles; 7 League (old div 1) titles; 13 FA Cups; 6 League Cups (in its various forms); 21 Community/Charity shields
Abroad (Europe):-
(UEFA): 3 Champions League titles, 1 Europa League Cup (soon to be 2 hopefully); 1 Cup winners Cup; 1 Super Cup
Abroad (International): I International Cup; 1 FIFA Club World Cup
Of course, the high water mark was the 'Top' Treble in 1999/2000. (2 domestic + 1 European trophy)
Any season without silverware is a disappointment, whenever we come in second (in any competition) or worse!!
We are the 'glory boys' and always have been, 'glory, glory Man United... and the reds go marching on' it's in our DNA!
I suppose for me (and perhaps many other United fans) the great adventure and search for all silverware (available to us) really began when Matt Busby defied the Football League establishment, and took us into the European Cup (1956) (in what is now the Champions League) and he brought that piece of silverware back to England 1968.
In my life time (except for 1908/1911.. I'm not that old) we have won:-
Domestically:-
13 Premier League titles; 7 League (old div 1) titles; 13 FA Cups; 6 League Cups (in its various forms); 21 Community/Charity shields
Abroad (Europe):-
(UEFA): 3 Champions League titles, 1 Europa League Cup (soon to be 2 hopefully); 1 Cup winners Cup; 1 Super Cup
Abroad (International): I International Cup; 1 FIFA Club World Cup
Of course, the high water mark was the 'Top' Treble in 1999/2000. (2 domestic + 1 European trophy)
Any season without silverware is a disappointment, whenever we come in second (in any competition) or worse!!
It’s not that important. We could win it and bomb out the Champions league next season and finish 10th. Or we could lose it and finish 4th next season.
The more I watch us, I am a little younger than you just to rub it in, the more I agree.
People will say the recent seasons have been rubbish but really it is the finals and knock out wins that you remember. I reckon I could still tell you all of our penalty takers from Moscow and where they put their penos, I couldn't tell you anything about the Europa final penalty shoot out we lost other than DDG's penalty because you never spend time revelling in it, looking at the post game celebrations etc. That's really what I think a lot of people enjoy, is seeing the celebrations and the happiness that comes with the confirmation you have beaten everyone else in a certain competition. Then the big moments get burned into your mind, like Keane's header vs Juve, Scholes volley vs Barca, Ole vs Bayern, Mkhi's overhead vs Ajax, Lingard's volley vs Palace, the goal from Mainoo vs City. If you ask anyone on here to envisage Pardew's cringeworthy dancing when they scored against us nearly 10 years ago, it might only have been an FA cup final in a poor season that ended up with Louis getting sacked but I remember so much of that game whereas, our best domestic season ever with Mourinho, I remember very little specifically apart from the glorious start when we became 4-0 fc.
Case in point, how many Arsenal fans will look back in 10-20 years time and say 'remember when we kept finishing second?' if they can't pick up a trophy in this period when they're good again?
Even in our shabby form post SAF, we've never gone more then one season without silverware if you take Ole out and whilst it might not be the top prizes, it is important to keep on winning things year on year.
I think most people on here are younger than me!!
Agree with you on every level, the Keane header against Juve stands out for me, I was working in Holland at the time, and watched that sat on a bar stool just outside Maastricht .... was amazed how many people jumped up and cheered... United fans everywhere!!
You are absolutely right, it's those 'moments' that stand out and they nearly all relate to winning silverware. Lets hope we soon get back to doing it every season.
It would honestly be remarkable if this side comes through the last three seasons with a trophy in each of them. Overall, I wouldn't hesitate to call this squad serial losers, but then we are almost certain to pull out four final appearances in that period, and either two or three trophies. From a mentality perspective it's pretty interesting.
Sounds like you have been watching Andy Tate on Stretford Paddock after the Brentford game
Exactly. The latter would be better for us going forward IMO as at least in that scenario we have sorted out our league form.
If we win the final this year, then here comes European Supercup, so an immediate opportunity for another trophy to start off the new season
Winning the trophy doesn’t necessarily mean we’re back on track, it all depends on what the club decides to do moving forward. But the win brings in money, saves the season, and could be a big deal for Amorim, helping him keep work without so much pressure.
Plus, every trophy counts, even if it is a second-tier competition.
Hopefully, this one ends up meaning as much for the club’s future as the trophy we won back in 1991.
Plus, every trophy counts, even if it is a second-tier competition.
Hopefully, this one ends up meaning as much for the club’s future as the trophy we won back in 1991.
Important for the immediate finacial future. Morale and belief likely goes up a notch too.
Not sure it attracts better players to us, or if it does it would think the impact is very limited. Any player who wants to join a Champions League club must recognise that after finishing 8th then bottom half, there's a very real chance that playing in it for us isn't going happen in season 2 or 3. A player who places importance on that competition and was truly of that standard likely attracts offers with better prospects than us to play in it regularly in the immediate future.
Not sure it attracts better players to us, or if it does it would think the impact is very limited. Any player who wants to join a Champions League club must recognise that after finishing 8th then bottom half, there's a very real chance that playing in it for us isn't going happen in season 2 or 3. A player who places importance on that competition and was truly of that standard likely attracts offers with better prospects than us to play in it regularly in the immediate future.
It doesn't really matter if we win it. We're not a champions league team. We'll get in for next season, get dumped out quickly and finish 8th in the league.
It'll be a laugh, but it's hardly going to benefit us in any significant way. It's not like potential signings will read "champions league" on the job description and not understand that it came from a 17th place league finish and a gentle run in a cup.
It'll be a laugh, but it's hardly going to benefit us in any significant way. It's not like potential signings will read "champions league" on the job description and not understand that it came from a 17th place league finish and a gentle run in a cup.
It's worth a fair bit of money that can be invested into the team.
Agreed. Every player would rather join Liverpool, Arsenal or City over us as CL football looks secure if that's a concern of theirs. Better bet for trophies too of course.
If two of Newcastle, Villa and Chelsea qualify through the league they look a better bet for regular future qualification as well at this point in time. Even the one that misses out is could be as well.
If Forest make it I think most will assume it will be a one-off so they don't have that over us. Nor can they offer the kind of wages or fame that we can.
Still, we can potentially buy more players who would join us whether or not we were in the CL. Isak joined Newcastle for £63m after finishing 11th and no CL football in a long time so it would be handy to have the kind of money we need to possibly make a signing like that. They were on the up at the time with the Saudi investment, but there were no guarantees at the time.
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Sure, but investment in the team hasn't really been an issue this last ten years - we've spent as much as anyone in world football.
I'm not sure that extra money can be described as "monumentally important"