Tuchel or Nagelsmann

What is this hard on over Tuchel?

He was nothing spectacular at PSG. He won the CL with the Chelsea team he took over before it blew up in his face, then he went to Bayern and won a one team race before that blew up in his face too.

I don't see it.
 
Can you understand the second sentence?
Yeah it makes no sense. Just cause they go abroad doesn’t mean they will get recognition. You just need to be good at your job. You don’t need to go overseas to be good at your job. Did Fergie go outside the UK?
 
Yeah it makes no sense. Just cause they go abroad doesn’t mean they will get recognition. You just need to be good at your job. You don’t need to go overseas to be good at your job. Did Fergie go outside the UK?
If a coach has success at Bayern will he be in demand?
Would it be easier to have success at Bayern than other clubs in Europe?
Do you really think that Kompany would do a better job than Howe or Potter at Bayern?
My point is that as soon as a job comes up in the Premier League then foreign coaches get talked about first based on what they have achieved in their league and I stated that British coaches may be better served spending more time in foreign leagues to get recognition.
Language is an obvious consideration.
 
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After 5 straight losses, sitting in 9th, 9 points behind 3rd after 19 games, Lampard was sacked, said his team weren't ready to compete

Tuchel took over, achieved 3rd spot and won the Champions league
 
After 5 straight losses, sitting in 9th, 9 points behind 3rd after 19 games, Lampard was sacked, said his team weren't ready to compete

Tuchel took over, achieved 3rd spot and won the Champions league

Yep, this team isn't winning the champions league with Pep as manager, but I think there is most slim of chances we could get top 4 with him.
 
I see your point, but I'm not really comfortable with that approach. I think the most fundamental and urgent challenge the club is facing is the need to create a functional, unified and reasonably harmonious football structure, because I don't think real and sustainable progress is going to be made until that is the case. And I doubt how Tuchel fits into that.
That’s what I wanted, but I’ve come to accept that we might never have everything figured out from the beginning. We kept considering the long-term consequences, but so far, that approach has proven futile. The most long-term thinking we've done was with Ten Hag and, to some extent, Ole. And Ole ended up being sacked (Ten Hag soon I believe). We should learn to operate like Real Madrid. They hire the best candidates available for success and evaluate their performance season after season. However, this requires careful control over transfers. Niche players who only fit one manager’s style are rarely signed. Instead, they continue signing top talents that and keep hiring the best candidates for managerial position (at that particular moment) until they find a manager who's good enough to remain there for several years. They are not afraid to part ways with a manager. Unlike us. If Tuchel can come into agreement to work within United's structure then he should be considered. I don't think he's much of a trouble maker anyways. Jose was way worse and yet he worked just fine with Woodward.
 
He also managed to save Hoffenheim in a relegation battle that was seen as hopeless (which is more or less the only reason he got the job, they thought it would be a nice option to give him experience and rebuild with him in the second Bundesliga) and to qualify with Hoffenheim for the CL (only time in their short history). Which also makes him the youngest manager to coach three different clubs in the CL (there is the age again).
Good manager, however I don't understand the hype. Since you watch the Bundesliga, do you think he'd be a good match for the players we have at our disposal?

Mind you, our last Austrian manager was not impressed with what we had at the time.
 
Glad the decision isn’t up to us fans. Tuchel is probably an excellent tactician, but obviously lacks man management skills and seems a very difficult person to work with. Shouldn’t even be considered, it reeks desperation.
 
That’s what I wanted, but I’ve come to accept that we might never have everything figured out from the beginning. We kept considering the long-term consequences, but so far, that approach has proven futile. The most long-term thinking we've done was with Ten Hag and, to some extent, Ole. And Ole ended up being sacked (Ten Hag soon I believe). We should learn to operate like Real Madrid. They hire the best candidates available for success and evaluate their performance season after season. However, this requires careful control over transfers. Niche players who only fit one manager’s style are rarely signed. Instead, they continue signing top talents that and keep hiring the best candidates for managerial position (at that particular moment) until they find a manager who's good enough to remain there for several years. They are not afraid to part ways with a manager. Unlike us. If Tuchel can come into agreement to work within United's structure then he should be considered. I don't think he's much of a trouble maker anyways. Jose was way worse and yet he worked just fine with Woodward.
Other than Real what clubs work this way? Also, they have certain principles and elements of play they always stick that’s deeply rooted in the club. The biggest issue with this approach though would be that they can hire anyone because they are Real. We could attract the best players under SAF, but not now.
No, we need a different strategy. It’s no coincidence that City, Pool and Arsenal are top three. They have both short and long term strategies which they execute very well. I hope INEOS has similar plans for us.

Just because ETH hasn’t worked out it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t get a manager who can build a solid foundation with a clear playing style. Until INEOS took over this club was run with utter incompetence for ten years. Hopefully that’s different now. I’ll take another shambolic season if that means we can get the right manager and some fitting transfers next summer that will set us on course to becoming a title contender every year again.
 
Good manager, however I don't understand the hype. Since you watch the Bundesliga, do you think he'd be a good match for the players we have at our disposal?

Mind you, our last Austrian manager was not impressed with what we had at the time.
I think the hype was absolutely justified for the work he did in Hoffenheim but kind of carried on even when he was a bit less impressive in Leipzig and München. But still a (very) good manager.

But I do think he would be a bad fit for the United squad. He likes to compress space to strangle opposition. That works for example with the Germany squad where he can just field Wirtz, Musiala and Havertz together in attack, but when you compare those players to United's squad you see the lack of technical quality in tight spaces.

Dare I say it that Sancho would probably have been the best fit for Nagelsmann and first choice ahead of Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho etc?
 
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If you're going to go for Nagelsmann you may as well have tried for Klopp? If he'd join Redbull despite how much they are despised in Germany he probably would've joined Utd if the price was right :lol:
 
I think the hype was absolutely justified for the work he did in Hoffenheim but kind of carried on even when he was a bit less impressive in Leipzig and Dortmund. But still a (very) good manager.

But I do think he would be a bad fit for the United squad. He likes to compress space to strangle opposition. That works for example with the Germany squad where he can just field Wirtz, Musiala and Havertz together in attack, but when you compare those players to United's squad you see the lack of technical quality in tight spaces.

Dare I say it that Sancho would probably have been the best fit for Nagelsmann and first choice ahead of Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho etc?
Thank you for your input. It does look like he won't be a suitable manager for our current first XI, hence my reservation about him.

He is a brilliant coach, however he would probably face the same challenges that Ragnick faced.

Between the two, I think Tuchel would be miles better for our squad. Not sure what kind of success he'd be able to achieve right now, however the standards are so low that all he has to do is get us top 4 and have a positive goals difference and we are good to go.
 
Thank you for your input. It does look like he won't be a suitable manager for our current first XI, hence my reservation about him.

He is a brilliant coach, however he would probably face the same challenges that Ragnick faced.

Between the two, I think Tuchel would be miles better for our squad. Not sure what kind of success he'd be able to achieve right now, however the standards are so low that all he has to do is get us top 4 and have a positive goals difference and we are good to go.
Oops, I meant München, not Dortmund obviously.

Btw fun fact: Rangnick got Tuchel into football management, Tuchel did the same for Nagelsmann. So all the names we discuss here are in a way related.

And I agree that Tuchel would be the better fit, I just think he is more adaptable in his approach.
 
After 5 straight losses, sitting in 9th, 9 points behind 3rd after 19 games, Lampard was sacked, said his team weren't ready to compete

Tuchel took over, achieved 3rd spot and won the Champions league
That was boss as feck eh? I'll take either to be honest but feel like Nag could be more long term. Who knows.
 
I think the hype was absolutely justified for the work he did in Hoffenheim but kind of carried on even when he was a bit less impressive in Leipzig and München. But still a (very) good manager.

But I do think he would be a bad fit for the United squad. He likes to compress space to strangle opposition. That works for example with the Germany squad where he can just field Wirtz, Musiala and Havertz together in attack, but when you compare those players to United's squad you see the lack of technical quality in tight spaces.

Dare I say it that Sancho would probably have been the best fit for Nagelsmann and first choice ahead of Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho etc?

A number 10 who can't dribble and doesn't play a short passing game particularly well is probably not an ideal profile for most managers that am ambitious club would be interested in no?

If you imagine Sancho would suite being a 10 under him then I'd imagine Amad would just better.