Turning on Rangnick

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Hilarious seeing threads like these. These performances are no different to the trash we saw when Ole was in charge. We played exactly this way against Wolves earlier in the season and stole the win. I asked the question "how would anyone be content with our performances" years ago but most laughed it off with "we're winning". Now its caught up to us and with Bruno woefully out of form, there's no one to bail us out.

This is what happens when you hire a novice and a number of inexperienced coaches - we do not know how to play football. Two months ago, we conceded 4 to an absolutely terrible Watford team and now people are expecting us to be functional against a Wolves side who always out peform us. Great standards held by our fans. Under Ole, we played one of the worst and most dysfunctional brands of football - once our coaches managed to coach the football out of Bruno, we completed our transition into Cardiff MKII.
 

pratyush_utd

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He took over during hectic period and then had Covid outbreak in the team. I guess we should judge him after Feb.

One thing i am not worried anymore is top 4 finish. This team is nowhere near the level and it would be miracle if we end up there. So we should use this 6 month to play with players we believe are going to part of future team. Ronaldo, Cavani and Matic do not meet that requirement. If we have to struggle our way to 6-7 position, lets play those who have future here.
 

Ixion

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Redknapp saying we're like the 90s Liverpool team was depressingly accurate, plenty young, exciting players and no clue how to use them. Still early for Ralf, hope he can find a way ASAP!
Ive said it before our British players remind me of the scousers 90s Spice Boys. Haven't won anything but think they've made it.
 

MUFC OK

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Ive said it before our British players remind me of the scousers 90s Spice Boys. Haven't won anything but think they've made it.
Really hard to argue with that.

Assuming Ralf hasn't ditched his philosophy, it's time to banish those who aren't carrying out his instructions, or people will (rightly) be coming for him asking what exactly has changed.
 

IRN-BRUno

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Wasn't that impressed by his appointment so my expectations are probably lower than most but it's still concerning to see just how poor we've been, you'd think that performances would at least improve slightly even if results didn't straight away. I get the feeling that perhaps he's underestimated how tough this league is compared to the Bundesliga.

Getting into the top 4 looks unlikely now but if that was the sole aim for this season he probably wouldn't have got the job. The club have clearly taken a longer-term view and the main task is to get the side ready for next season and a new manager. I think we just have to accept that performances and results aren't going to be great this season but that hopefully we'll benefit from it in the future.
 

Dan600

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The media love when United are in turmoil because it gets them clicks. They want Rangnick gone as soon as possible because they want the likes of Woodward wielding power over the football decisions. They want us flailing with no clear footballing identity or long term vision. Then they have us right where they want us for their own interactions/clicks. For now, everyone should really be ignoring the media bear-baiting, and we should not even be contemplating turning on the manager.

Rangnick is here as manager for 6 months before taking on a football consultancy role for 2 years. Most people were calling the season a write off towards the end of Ole's reign, so why is no top 4 under Rangnick a travesty, given the media and ourselves were already saying we had no chance now? I know, I know, 'HOW DARE YOU LOWER EXPECTATIONS'. Ignore the media sensationalism about it, and let this next step play out.

I can't say with confidence that it is going to play out successfully over the next 2 and a half seasons. But these next 6 months have to be viewed as a part of a process now. Ralf will be assessing the squad, deciding who stays and who goes, whilst also sorting out the pile up of players we have currently. Come the end of the season, all of Cavani, Lingard, Martial, Mata, and Pogba will all be gone, along with any others he wants gone as well. At the same time, presumably RR will be identifying replacements to come in, youth players to potentially be promoted and so on, all while preparing the remaining players for a more intense and aggressive playing style, and changing the little things at Carrington and Old Trafford to complement it. Maybe now we can get a squad together that suits a manager, and not only that, if we end up having to sack that man, the next appointment will come in and be able to use that squad, rather than having to reassemble it.


Next, if you are trying to find someone to blame for the current malaise and disjointed nature of the squad, look no further than the people at the top. And don't blame Rangnick, even if he isn't the answer as a manager, the consultancy role could still be key. I hope he stops the same recurring mistakes being made by the morons at the top, whilst tutoring Fletcher and Murtough in their roles for the longer term. Hopefully he gets the club to a point where the likes of the Glazers, Woodward, Arnold & Co are kept as far away from any footballing decisions as possible.

Our problem isn't Rangnick. It wasn't Van Gaal/Mourinho/Moyes/Solskjaer/Rangnick/Carrick/Giggs. It always starts with the board. The lack of a football plan, and the yo-yo nature of our selection of managers/philosophies, and then the different players they choose to bring in for their style is precisely the problem. Even when you look at our previous managers:
  1. Van Gaal with an injury crisis, which led to the debut of Marcus Rashford, still won an FA Cup and came 5th, but we sacked him anyway, and gave him no time to progress and finalise a squad.
  2. Mourinho won several trophies, and then got as close to a title as we had managed since SAF, only to be sabotaged in the next transfer window by the board because he hurt their feelings with some home truths. He didn't get players in the positions he wanted, and was forced to keep Pogba among others, who shock horror, is now leaving on a free.
  3. And then Ole took us to a Europa League Final and finished 2nd all in one season. Granted we lost when it mattered. He lacked any trophies, sure but their was a clear plan in place, and he was achieving results. But then, with Ole deciding he wanted a RB and a CDM to finish off his squad, following the signings of Varane and Sancho, Woodward decided he could make himself the hero by ignoring the wants of the manager and bringing in Ronaldo, and we have Deja Vu with an unexpected collapse and sacking.
Ronaldo himself coming to the club was huge for sure, but in the process we sold James to accommodate CR7 and Cavani in both squad numbers and places. At the same time we hugely upset Martial, Cavani and maybe multiple others, all while leaving us still lacking at CDM and RB.

Say what you want about James but he was often a key player in Ole's strategy against the bigger teams and an important worker and runner in the team. He was a good friend of McTominay amongst others, and to me, I would say an important member of the squad in terms of morale. He always looked a really happy genuine guy and seemed to get on with everyone in the squad, and mixed with all the different groups. We attribute the drop in togetherness to Ronaldo joining which in part is true, it clearly upset both Cavani and Martial, and I'd argue has effected Rashford and Greenwood too. However, we don't talk about the way James was treated and cast out without a second thought. Maybe that is as much to blame as Ronaldo himself for the current fallouts and negative feeling within the squad.





Outside of the managers we haven't had anyone on the football side with a plan for what we want the club to be. The Ronaldo signing has me fearing that Woodward still has more control than he should, with his signing not really fitting the profile of either Solskjaer's ideas, nor Murtough's, leaving me questioning their authority on footballing matters. Murtough and Ole are/were both arguably novices in their roles without the authority needed, which maybe why Woodward still had that control. Hopefully Rangnick comes in with Fletcher and Murtough at the end of the season and stops the same mistakes being made by the morons at the top, and uses his experience to gain the authority required to tell Woodward/Arnold to keep their noses out.

The big decision right now is who will be the next permanent manager in the summer. Whether it is Rangnick himself, someone he has worked with previously, or someone else altogether. If come the summer we appoint a manager with yet another completely different style and philosophy, then I will be concerned that we haven't learnt any lessons and we will be going through the same mistakes as before, with Woodward and Arnold retaining control. I am hopeful in some ways that the sacking of Solskjaer aligns with Murtough as much as anyone else, because he has his own ideas for the football we should be playing. He has apparently admired Rangnick for a long time, going back to interviews and similar long before he was appointed as DOF. This is why I am hopeful we actually have a long term strategy now, and is why I am backing Rangnick for the rest of the season.

If come the end of the season we appoint someone completely different again, with a low block, long ball philosophy for example, that's the point at which you know we still have no long term vision for the football side of things. That is when the alarm bells should be ringing.
 

MUFC OK

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For context, Klopp (using comparison due to similarity in styles) only won 13 of 30 games in his first season and lost to the likes of Palace, Newcastle, Watford, West Ham, Leicester, Southampton.

Yes, we have better players, but in terms of implementing a style, this was never going to be a quick fix. We have decided to go down this route of high intensity, pressing football and whilst its hard to see the results at present, we need to stick to it and remember why we have taken this route. The foundations need to be laid for a new manager with a similar style in the summer.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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For context, Klopp (using comparison due to similarity in styles) only won 13 of 30 games in his first season and lost to the likes of Palace, Newcastle, Watford, West Ham, Leicester, Southampton.

Yes, we have better players, but in terms of implementing a style, this was never going to be a quick fix. We have decided to go down this route of high intensity, pressing football and whilst its hard to see the results at present, we need to stick to it and remember why we have taken this route. The foundations need to be laid for a new manager with a similar style in the summer.
Difference is, Klopp inherited a team that wanted to work. Half of these entitled lazy feckers in our team don't want to do that.
 

MUFC OK

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Difference is, Klopp inherited a team that wanted to work. Half of these entitled lazy feckers in our team don't want to do that.
Not sure that can necessarily be corroborated but agree that whoever doesnt want to work hard should be dropped indefinitely.

Ironically it looks like our British players, who were championed under Ole that are the biggest primadonnas in the team - heads down, not communicating, not keeping up with the speed of the game. They are all dispensable in my opinion.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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Not sure that can necessarily be corroborated but agree that whoever doesnt want to work hard should be dropped indefinitely.

Ironically it looks like our British players, who were championed under Ole that are the biggest primadonnas in the team - heads down, not communicating, not keeping up with the speed of the game. They are all dispensable in my opinion.
Agree with that. Only Greenwood I actually would like to stay.
 

Siezard

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Well, if RR is going to be so bad, then you might as well bring in the real manager now so he can implement his style this season and next season will be time for him to flourish?
 

MUFC OK

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Well, if RR is going to be so bad, then you might as well bring in the real manager now so he can implement his style this season and next season will be time for him to flourish?
There's every chance that Ten Hag/Poch aren't available currently.

It would be the same story: bring in Ten Hag or whoever the most popular option is, get a couple of poor results/performances and people would be saying the same things. Rangnicks philosophy lends itself to a particular style, it's his job to implement the fundamentals until the summer. I have no problem with approach we have taken.
 

MasterCode

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I've said it on other threads I will say it hear too.

This Ralf Rangnick appointment will end in tears.
 

Sandikan

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Well, if RR is going to be so bad, then you might as well bring in the real manager now so he can implement his style this season and next season will be time for him to flourish?
The whole point is that we can't get the new manager until the summer, or we'd have clearly got them in already.
 

hescoresgoals1899

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The media love when United are in turmoil because it gets them clicks. They want Rangnick gone as soon as possible because they want the likes of Woodward wielding power over the football decisions. They want us flailing with no clear footballing identity or long term vision. Then they have us right where they want us for their own interactions/clicks. For now, everyone should really be ignoring the media bear-baiting, and we should not even be contemplating turning on the manager.

Rangnick is here as manager for 6 months before taking on a football consultancy role for 2 years. Most people were calling the season a write off towards the end of Ole's reign, so why is no top 4 under Rangnick a travesty, given the media and ourselves were already saying we had no chance now? I know, I know, 'HOW DARE YOU LOWER EXPECTATIONS'. Ignore the media sensationalism about it, and let this next step play out.

I can't say with confidence that it is going to play out successfully over the next 2 and a half seasons. But these next 6 months have to be viewed as a part of a process now. Ralf will be assessing the squad, deciding who stays and who goes, whilst also sorting out the pile up of players we have currently. Come the end of the season, all of Cavani, Lingard, Martial, Mata, and Pogba will all be gone, along with any others he wants gone as well. At the same time, presumably RR will be identifying replacements to come in, youth players to potentially be promoted and so on, all while preparing the remaining players for a more intense and aggressive playing style, and changing the little things at Carrington and Old Trafford to complement it. Maybe now we can get a squad together that suits a manager, and not only that, if we end up having to sack that man, the next appointment will come in and be able to use that squad, rather than having to reassemble it.


Next, if you are trying to find someone to blame for the current malaise and disjointed nature of the squad, look no further than the people at the top. And don't blame Rangnick, even if he isn't the answer as a manager, the consultancy role could still be key. I hope he stops the same recurring mistakes being made by the morons at the top, whilst tutoring Fletcher and Murtough in their roles for the longer term. Hopefully he gets the club to a point where the likes of the Glazers, Woodward, Arnold & Co are kept as far away from any footballing decisions as possible.

Our problem isn't Rangnick. It wasn't Van Gaal/Mourinho/Moyes/Solskjaer/Rangnick/Carrick/Giggs. It always starts with the board. The lack of a football plan, and the yo-yo nature of our selection of managers/philosophies, and then the different players they choose to bring in for their style is precisely the problem. Even when you look at our previous managers:
  1. Van Gaal with an injury crisis, which led to the debut of Marcus Rashford, still won an FA Cup and came 5th, but we sacked him anyway, and gave him no time to progress and finalise a squad.
  2. Mourinho won several trophies, and then got as close to a title as we had managed since SAF, only to be sabotaged in the next transfer window by the board because he hurt their feelings with some home truths. He didn't get players in the positions he wanted, and was forced to keep Pogba among others, who shock horror, is now leaving on a free.
  3. And then Ole took us to a Europa League Final and finished 2nd all in one season. Granted we lost when it mattered. He lacked any trophies, sure but their was a clear plan in place, and he was achieving results. But then, with Ole deciding he wanted a RB and a CDM to finish off his squad, following the signings of Varane and Sancho, Woodward decided he could make himself the hero by ignoring the wants of the manager and bringing in Ronaldo, and we have Deja Vu with an unexpected collapse and sacking.
Ronaldo himself coming to the club was huge for sure, but in the process we sold James to accommodate CR7 and Cavani in both squad numbers and places. At the same time we hugely upset Martial, Cavani and maybe multiple others, all while leaving us still lacking at CDM and RB.

Say what you want about James but he was often a key player in Ole's strategy against the bigger teams and an important worker and runner in the team. He was a good friend of McTominay amongst others, and to me, I would say an important member of the squad in terms of morale. He always looked a really happy genuine guy and seemed to get on with everyone in the squad, and mixed with all the different groups. We attribute the drop in togetherness to Ronaldo joining which in part is true, it clearly upset both Cavani and Martial, and I'd argue has effected Rashford and Greenwood too. However, we don't talk about the way James was treated and cast out without a second thought. Maybe that is as much to blame as Ronaldo himself for the current fallouts and negative feeling within the squad.





Outside of the managers we haven't had anyone on the football side with a plan for what we want the club to be. The Ronaldo signing has me fearing that Woodward still has more control than he should, with his signing not really fitting the profile of either Solskjaer's ideas, nor Murtough's, leaving me questioning their authority on footballing matters. Murtough and Ole are/were both arguably novices in their roles without the authority needed, which maybe why Woodward still had that control. Hopefully Rangnick comes in with Fletcher and Murtough at the end of the season and stops the same mistakes being made by the morons at the top, and uses his experience to gain the authority required to tell Woodward/Arnold to keep their noses out.

The big decision right now is who will be the next permanent manager in the summer. Whether it is Rangnick himself, someone he has worked with previously, or someone else altogether. If come the summer we appoint a manager with yet another completely different style and philosophy, then I will be concerned that we haven't learnt any lessons and we will be going through the same mistakes as before, with Woodward and Arnold retaining control. I am hopeful in some ways that the sacking of Solskjaer aligns with Murtough as much as anyone else, because he has his own ideas for the football we should be playing. He has apparently admired Rangnick for a long time, going back to interviews and similar long before he was appointed as DOF. This is why I am hopeful we actually have a long term strategy now, and is why I am backing Rangnick for the rest of the season.

If come the end of the season we appoint someone completely different again, with a low block, long ball philosophy for example, that's the point at which you know we still have no long term vision for the football side of things. That is when the alarm bells should be ringing.
You, Sir\Mam, are an insightful observer. Fully agree with the views you shared.
 

Green Yellow Red

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Most frightening thing Rangnick has done so far was admitting he was only ever considering Greenwood or Cavani to sub off, taking off Ronaldo wasn't an option. Ronaldo starts every game. This is looking like a manager only interested in placating the biggest ego to get him on board when he should be benching anyone that can't execute a high press consistently. Not recognising the problems that Ronaldo has brought is bad in itself, seeing them and still compromising your football identity to keep him happy is just tragic.
 

DSG

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What has Ralf done? The players clearly don't respect him? You need to calm down buddy.

The guy has been in charge for five games and his record is 3 wins 1 draw 1 loss. Let's see where we are around the end of feb and make judgements then.
But the eye test and body language of the squad is a big, big negative.

I think the Ralf has his place in the football world. It’s not managing a squad with multiple CL, league and WC winners. He’s won nothing. I just don’t think this “professor” can manage this squad.
 

Thelongsleevesofblomqvist

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But the eye test and body language of the squad is a big, big negative.

I think the Ralf has his place in the football world. It’s not managing a squad with multiple CL, league and WC winners. He’s won nothing. I just don’t think this “professor” can manage this squad.

It´s for sure complicated on a 6 month deal.
 

Ixion

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But the eye test and body language of the squad is a big, big negative.

I think the Ralf has his place in the football world. It’s not managing a squad with multiple CL, league and WC winners. He’s won nothing. I just don’t think this “professor” can manage this squad.
I mean you're basically talking about Ronaldo and Varane. Most of our squad hasn't won a league or CL so they should not be questioning who they're taking orders from.
 

DSG

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The same argument can just be applied to Jose who finished 2nd with more points with a squad that Ole then took over and finished 6th with and lost 5 of the last 9 games of the season with only winning 2. That's obviously a dumb argument to make against Ole's results in that half season just as it is now against Rangnick.
Facts, brother. What position were we when Ole took over? 10th? Jose constantly complaining? It was a miracle we made it to 6th. Then 3rd, then 2nd. What are we even arguing here? Classic whataboutism!

My point is that the team has looked like dog shit under Rangnick. I don’t believe he’s up for the job. It’s too big for him.
 

sammyhol

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This thread is the perfect encapsulation of internet debate.

On one hand, absolute doom mongers who have written him off completely.

and on the other hand the Pearl clutching, too early to pass any criticism brigade

you do know that it is possible to hold both the view that it is way too early to write the bloke off, and also say that what he has shown so far has been is mainly crap…
 

DSG

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I mean you're basically talking about Ronaldo and Varane. Most of our squad hasn't won a league or CL so they should not be questioning who they're taking orders from.
Pogba? Euro championship final? Cavani multiple league medals?

These aren’t plucky young Leipzig lads with something to prove. These are 200k a week players, full internationals.

You heard it here first. I think Ralf will have a lot of trouble installing his system, and it may not work with this squad.
 

Infra-red

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But the eye test and body language of the squad is a big, big negative.

I think the Ralf has his place in the football world. It’s not managing a squad with multiple CL, league and WC winners. He’s won nothing. I just don’t think this “professor” can manage this squad.
That does beg the question of who can manage this lot successfully? If winning multiple trophies is the criteria, Ten Hag is also ruled out - the players would simply ignore him. Ditto Pochettino and Rodgers.

Also, if we look at which players have won major trophies, I'm not sure they are the ones we should be clinging on to. Won a major trophy:

  • De Gea, Jones, Pogba, Ronaldo, Mata, Varane, Cavani, Matic

Other than De Gea and Varane, I doubt any of them will be here next season.
 

Ixion

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Facts, brother. What position were we when Ole took over? 10th? Jose constantly complaining? It was a miracle we made it to 6th. Then 3rd, then 2nd. What are we even arguing here? Classic whataboutism!

My point is that the team has looked like dog shit under Rangnick. I don’t believe he’s up for the job. It’s too big for him.
The team looked like dog shit under Ole. Was it signing Sancho, Ronaldo and Varane, who knows? But we've been terrible and regressed massively and Ole was in charge of the defeats to Villa, Liverpool, Leicester, City and Watford so it's not something that has just come about under Rangnick. He has inherited a squad that were getting hammered every week and hes had a month, it's impossible to judge him yet.
 

Ixion

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Pogba? Euro championship final? Cavani multiple league medals?

These aren’t plucky young Leipzig lads with something to prove. These are 200k a week players, full internationals.

You heard it here first. I think Ralf will have a lot of trouble installing his system, and it may not work with this squad.
I mean I'm not counting Pogba when he hasn't played a game under Rangnick yet, no one knows how that will go, and Cavani is gone at the end of the season too. I think you have to look at the core group of players not a few outliers that will be gone soon regardless of who the manager is.

Who are Shaw, Maguire, AWB, McTominay, Fred, Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford etc. to look down on a manager's CV. This is the problem, we have a bunch of players that think they're above the level they really are.
 

the_cliff

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It's quite simple with Ralf tbh. He doesn't have the players required to play the football he wants to play. Appointing Conte was the best choice at the time in terms of fitting the players we have which is why I was a big advocate of getting Conte.

Now we're stuck with another rebuild job. I think United fans have overrated the majority of these players. A high pressing game doesn't suit Ronaldo at all and our midfield 2 are too inconsistent at finding forward passes in between the lines to attack in a direct fast transition. Our rb can't play football but can defend and our backup rb can't defend but is decent going forward. Our lb averages around 2 overlaps a game. Sancho going from sharing his side with Hakimi to sharing it with Shaw is like night and day and I'm not surprised by his lack of output. Rashford has legs but that's about all he has and Greenwood despite all his potential can't seem to get any chemistry going with Ronaldo.

Our team is all over the place right now, a very unbalanced squad with players that suit 2 completely different types of football. On one hand you have technical players that prefer a short passing/quick interchange/possession based way of playing like:
Sancho, Amad, DVB, Pogba, Martial, Greenwood

Then you have direct players that want to attack in direct, quick transitions or through the use of width and crossing like:
Ronaldo, Rashford, Cavani, Bruno

But we don't have a midfield/full backs that can play either style.

In summary, we have a mess of a squad and for all of those people that said Ole did well building a squad for the next manager, well sorry to break your hearts but he didn't. When you take into consideration that within the next season Martial, Lingard, Pogba, Ronaldo and Cavani will all most likely be out the door we'll need another rebuild of 2-3 years. Ole becoming manager set us back 5 years and we don't even have an efl cup to show for it.
 

OrcaFat

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Hilarious seeing threads like these. These performances are no different to the trash we saw when Ole was in charge. We played exactly this way against Wolves earlier in the season and stole the win. I asked the question "how would anyone be content with our performances" years ago but most laughed it off with "we're winning". Now its caught up to us and with Bruno woefully out of form, there's no one to bail us out.

This is what happens when you hire a novice and a number of inexperienced coaches - we do not know how to play football. Two months ago, we conceded 4 to an absolutely terrible Watford team and now people are expecting us to be functional against a Wolves side who always out peform us. Great standards held by our fans. Under Ole, we played one of the worst and most dysfunctional brands of football - once our coaches managed to coach the football out of Bruno, we completed our transition into Cardiff MKII.
I disagree with most of this. We were doing fine until a few months ago. Loads of people didn’t like it when we were winning under Ole and laughed it off by saying the football was terrible. But I’m not the only one who really enjoyed a lot of our football under Ole.

I don’t want to spend the next two years defending Ole and I fully agree he had to go but if people keep dredging up arguments about bad football and Ole being to blame for how we are playing under a different flipping coach I can’t let it slide.
 

Ixion

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I disagree with most of this. We were doing fine until a few months ago. Loads of people didn’t like it when we were winning under Ole and laughed it off by saying the football was terrible. But I’m not the only one who really enjoyed a lot of our football under Ole.

I don’t want to spend the next two years defending Ole and I fully agree he had to go but if people keep dredging up arguments about bad football and Ole being to blame for how we are playing under a different flipping coach I can’t let it slide.
Serious question, which games under Ole this season did you enjoy? Leeds and Newcastle?
 

croadyman

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Ive said it before our British players remind me of the scousers 90s Spice Boys. Haven't won anything but think they've made it.
Yeah you are absolutely bang on and it's an utterly disgraceful arrogant attitude
 

Forevergiggs1

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The players have! Nobody can tell me that this team is trying their hardest for this guy, they look MISERABLE, to a man, all of them. Not one is enjoying their football or playing remotely well except the keeper.

I haven’t turned on him but feck me he’s doing his best to absolutely make us look worse than we were.

Even at our worst under Ole the players seemed to create chances and be ‘in’ the game (last few games aside.) I struggle to fathom how we could be as bad as we are.

Look at the games he’s had as a collective, it’s been absolutely dire and against the worst teams in the league, the Norwich game and this one in particular have been awful. Just look like a bunch of strangers out there.
It's impossible to get rid of 3 (5?) years of lathargy in the short time that Ralf has been with us. The players in that time got too comfortable/complacent knowing that no matter how bad they played they'd be picked for the next game. They didn't need drive or desire which is fundamental in top class sportsmen.

It's no surprise it all turned to shit when the club brought in born winners like Ronaldo or Varane who expect perfection which they obviously didn't get and which turned sour in a very short space of time culminating in Ole being thrown out of his comfort zone with his good vibes way of dealing with the players and eventually ending badly for him.

Ralf has to bring that desire back and its certainly going to take a lot longer than the time he's been with us. I fear its going to get worse before it gets better but if the end result is the players playing for each other as a unit then the wait will be worth it.
 

RUCK4444

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It's impossible to get rid of 3 (5?) years of lathargy in the short time that Ralf has been with us. The players in that time got too comfortable/complacent knowing that no matter how bad they played they'd be picked for the next game. They didn't need drive or desire which is fundamental in top class sportsmen.

It's no surprise it all turned to shit when the club brought in born winners like Ronaldo or Varane who expect perfection which they obviously didn't get and which turned sour in a very short space of time culminating in Ole being thrown out of his comfort zone with his good vibes way of dealing with the players and eventually ending badly for him.

Ralf has to bring that desire back and its certainly going to take a lot longer than the time he's been with us. I fear its going to get worse before it gets better but if the end result is the players playing for each other as a unit then the wait will be worth it.
On the bolded I agree to an extent, however part of the problem is the competition for places is quite poor. It's not like we've had world class players pushing the starting 11 for their spot.

Look at the difference between Shaw and Telles for example. Same with the midfield and defence. We have a large squad and the starting 11 when in form are talented but there isn't much depth of quality off the bench for the problem areas of the squad, some of whom (dare I say VDB and many others) never really shine when they are given a chance.

This then forces the manager in some respect to go back to their tried and tested, it's how favourites are established at all clubs I suppose. But I'm not denying its become an issue and has contributed to their current form/mindset. If you think about it though, unlike other clubs, we very rarely have multiple players in form for a given position 'causing a headache' for the manager, in fact were lucky to have one player in form. :lol:
 

TheRedHearted

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Why on Earth would we STILL start Ronaldo when we've got Greenwood available? FFS Greenwood was the only one that looked vaguely threatening yesterday, and Ronaldo patently cannot lead the line on his own anymore.
I would alternate Ronaldo every other game. And Bruno wouldn’t be drifting in with him with that formation.
 

Teja

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At the very least for me it's steps in the right direction and not Bruno hero ball. Even if you give Klopp the current team, he won't have us pressing like a well drilled machine right away. Happy to engage in the minutiae about what we do in possession, defensive transitions, opposition goal kicks, our goal kicks etc. There isn't a single answer to are we crap / are we worse than Ole. It varies.

I can understand the reactions here but Wolves are an extremely good side. City only got a 1-0 win thanks to a Wolves red card and only had a couple of half chances in the entire first half. Chelsea drew 0-0 with them just before.

The real question marks for me are:
  • Is it worth going Red Bull style back to front extremely quickly? (10 sec rule etc.). IMO keeping the ball for a bit and going sideways, passing it around, conserving some energy and making the other side expend theirs are all good things.
  • Is he a good man manager? I think Carrick and McKenna leaving is a fairly big hit because you'll have totally new faces talking to players and trying to figure out what they'll respond to. Rangnick himself is a bit of a straight shooter and that's not always what you need.
Let's see him work out the line up, right now we're still experimenting a fair bit to see what works and what doesn't. We can judge once we have a set XI.
 

RedDevil@84

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Ya Rangnick should call a team meeting immediately to help players understand

 

Forevergiggs1

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On the bolded I agree to an extent, however part of the problem is the competition for places is quite poor. It's not like we've had world class players pushing the starting 11 for their spot.

Look at the difference between Shaw and Telles for example. Same with the midfield and defence. We have a large squad and the starting 11 when in form are talented but there isn't much depth of quality off the bench for the problem areas of the squad, some of whom (dare I say VDB and many others) never really shine when they are given a chance.

This then forces the manager in some respect to go back to their tried and tested, it's how favourites are established at all clubs I suppose. But I'm not denying its become an issue and has contributed to their current form/mindset. If you think about it though, unlike other clubs, we very rarely have multiple players in form for a given position 'causing a headache' for the manager, in fact were lucky to have one player in form. :lol:
To be honest I've no problems playing favourites. Most top teams have a nucleus of 8 or 9 players with the odd change to freshen things up but I think the biggest difference with us is the motivation. I don't know if it's complacency on the players part or not being held accountable for their performances but we've ended up in a dark place which is going to take time to rectify.

Whether Rangnick has the know how remains to be seen. On one hand dropping players like Rashford, Bruno, Shaw was a definite sign of intent but on the other sticking (so far) with a system that very few of our players are set up for shows at best a little naivety but I think his biggest job is clearing the mindset of the players which as I mentioned before won't be done overnight. If he fails then the positive is he's only here to the end of the season before the new manager comes in but at least Rangnick can assess the players from now to then and make the necessary changes to give the new manager a better chance. Most evidence suggests he'd make a better consultant to the DOF than as a manager so at least it won't be 6 months wasted.
 

Ogaranya

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Had it been that it was guardiola that we hired, do you think that he will dishing out attractive football with these lazy bunch of players?

We should come to terms that the 80% of the squad are average and cannot break into a Real Madrid, Bayern, Man City squad.

A major swamp draining is needed here, flush the egoistic average players out and go get talented players that have the passion and zeal to play for the badge.