So, your solution is to sack him now and bring back Carrick (assuming we can persuade him back)?
Turning on Rangnick
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
I am eagerly to see if he will drop Ronaldo.
This is modern foorball for you. You see those moments where managers like Tuchel subs of Mbappe and has to hug him and explain to him why he subbed him because he's throwing a tantrum. Most of them are spoiled brats. The glory days of this sport are long behind us. Modern football is a complete joke compared to what the sport used to be.
These days it's just £100m being thrown around, corruption greed and crybabies.
This is true. I feel jaded by football
Turning on him is idiotic, we for once made the correct call to not get ahead of ourselves and brought him in as an interim , hell be damned
We had 2 choices when we sacked ole either go for someone established like conte or Zidane who'd command instant respect and try to salvage bmthe season as much as possible , but also accept the risk that it might end in a disaster and just get us further away from where we want to be .
Or take the long route and semi write of the season and deliberate further to make the right call in the summer .
We chose the latter and we knew of the drawbacks when we made that choice so we must also accept the consequences of that very decision. Right now the league is a lost cause with ucl qualification being the best we could achieve so as of now our only chances are either the fa cup or ucl , both being long shots seeing the quality abroad and domestically with both competitions so we need to accept that we most likely end the season with nothing to show for it and might even lose out on ucl
But it may also be a blessing in disguise, letting us go all in on the scorched land policy by shifting a lot of the players who simply don't fit our plans and make a long term schematics to advance our goals .
When the time comes will be able to be radical enough? Its to be seen but either way there are hard times coming up
We had 2 choices when we sacked ole either go for someone established like conte or Zidane who'd command instant respect and try to salvage bmthe season as much as possible , but also accept the risk that it might end in a disaster and just get us further away from where we want to be .
Or take the long route and semi write of the season and deliberate further to make the right call in the summer .
We chose the latter and we knew of the drawbacks when we made that choice so we must also accept the consequences of that very decision. Right now the league is a lost cause with ucl qualification being the best we could achieve so as of now our only chances are either the fa cup or ucl , both being long shots seeing the quality abroad and domestically with both competitions so we need to accept that we most likely end the season with nothing to show for it and might even lose out on ucl
But it may also be a blessing in disguise, letting us go all in on the scorched land policy by shifting a lot of the players who simply don't fit our plans and make a long term schematics to advance our goals .
When the time comes will be able to be radical enough? Its to be seen but either way there are hard times coming up
It is actually better for all of us to take it easy. Just imagine how it is in a normal settings, such as our workplace.
Doesnt really matter one way or the other. Hes here till the end of the season and whats gonna happen is gonna happen during that time. He aint getting sacked no matter what happens.
What I will say though is that Ole came in and we got a huge bounce out of that. And look how that fell apart? So if theres no bounce, maybe that means that Ralf is drilling his ideas into them hard and fast. Maybe this is what the conversion to a high pressing team looks like. Maybe the end result will have us all praising him as much as everyone else does. Its only been a few games, and theres been massive disruption with covid. I think we can give the guy till the end of the season without throwing toys around the pram. If hes shit hes gone then anyway.
What I will say though is that Ole came in and we got a huge bounce out of that. And look how that fell apart? So if theres no bounce, maybe that means that Ralf is drilling his ideas into them hard and fast. Maybe this is what the conversion to a high pressing team looks like. Maybe the end result will have us all praising him as much as everyone else does. Its only been a few games, and theres been massive disruption with covid. I think we can give the guy till the end of the season without throwing toys around the pram. If hes shit hes gone then anyway.
I feel he's just an interim coach whereas people seem to already treat him like a permanent manager.
And i used to think we're the best fans in the world...
I was not talking about a solution now. Nothing can be fixed for this season except hoping to get (a lot of) lucky results to be in CL next season and probably a good CM.
Totally agree!
Could he maybe get more ruthless now he will have nearly a week with them on the training field until the cup tie with Villa
Presume you want his 2 year consultancy torn up as well then I take it
I don't want to turn on him but picking Matic in a two man midfield AND having two 35 plus year olds up front AND then trying to remedy this by forcing a fullback to play as an extra centreback...this isn't good or even acceptable management. It's just self destructive idiocy and the exact reason why he ended up replacing Ole in the first place.
And the Greenwood substitution was absolutely pathetic. He was the only forward player making runs for the team, creating things for team mates. Cavani and Ronaldo were both guilty of ignoring him, including once when he should have been put through on goal, and he gets punished for it.
I'm still genuinely furious about that. You have no business being a manager of anything if you're either too cowardly to make the right decision or deliberately make the wrong ones to push some kind of stupid point/agenda. The only logical excuse is Greenwood was injured but if that were the case he should have made two subs at that point otherwise he just chose to deliberately ignore the problem that caused him to get Fernandes ready in the first place.
Basically he's gone right down to a zero in my estimation after that shite show of management tonight. Its gone from trusting him until he proves otherwise to him needing to prove he's not a fecking idiot before I have any trust in him at all.
The only game we've looked remotely decent in under him was against Palace, so why is he deliberately picking a team that can't possibly physically produce the same performance?
And the Greenwood substitution was absolutely pathetic. He was the only forward player making runs for the team, creating things for team mates. Cavani and Ronaldo were both guilty of ignoring him, including once when he should have been put through on goal, and he gets punished for it.
I'm still genuinely furious about that. You have no business being a manager of anything if you're either too cowardly to make the right decision or deliberately make the wrong ones to push some kind of stupid point/agenda. The only logical excuse is Greenwood was injured but if that were the case he should have made two subs at that point otherwise he just chose to deliberately ignore the problem that caused him to get Fernandes ready in the first place.
Basically he's gone right down to a zero in my estimation after that shite show of management tonight. Its gone from trusting him until he proves otherwise to him needing to prove he's not a fecking idiot before I have any trust in him at all.
The only game we've looked remotely decent in under him was against Palace, so why is he deliberately picking a team that can't possibly physically produce the same performance?
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Jesus the meltdown in here after he’s been here five minutes and struggled to instantly implement progress amidst covid disruption and a severely underperforming and moral-less squad. You’ll have me turning into a top red at this rate! Even with Ole I had six months to a year before firmly deciding he wasn’t up to it. RR’s press conferences are very cogent and a far cry from Ole and ‘in football you’ve got to run around, block, shoot and tackle’ etc. He knows what’s going wrong with the team why they can’t get the foothold they need in games, it’s just not as easy as flipping a switch to make it all better. Seriously, how naive some people are!
It’s not gonna help thefans cranking up the pressure cooker after footballs equivalent of five minutes in the job. How long was ole given and defended for as we pulled rabbits out of hats game after game.RR isn’t dumb, he is aiming at building a system that brings out results by making the metrics work in our favour.Is it any surprise our rag tag bunch are struggling. Let the guy at least try and achieve What he wants from the team before we judge him. This isn’t a ‘we can’t judge him til he’shad five seasons and a trillion spend’ a la ole argument. It’s let the guy have five fecking minutes to do his job.
It’s not gonna help thefans cranking up the pressure cooker after footballs equivalent of five minutes in the job. How long was ole given and defended for as we pulled rabbits out of hats game after game.RR isn’t dumb, he is aiming at building a system that brings out results by making the metrics work in our favour.Is it any surprise our rag tag bunch are struggling. Let the guy at least try and achieve What he wants from the team before we judge him. This isn’t a ‘we can’t judge him til he’shad five seasons and a trillion spend’ a la ole argument. It’s let the guy have five fecking minutes to do his job.
If we all turn him on it might help with the penetration issue.
So many things need to change for the football to resemble anything satisfying to most fans. Ragnick's in a tough situation where he doesn't get to actually do a lot of drilling and tactical coaching being in the middle of a congested season, especially since the PL is one of the leagues that doesn't even get a break with their boxing day fixtures. It's impossible for a coach, whether it's Ragnick or Ten Haag to magically snap their finger and transform this current group of players into a cohesive, free-flowing football team. When you see the amount of absolutely unforced error, it's a concentration issue in the first place and a coach can only do so much before the player has to take ownership of that. There's too many unforced error, too much of trying to find round pegs into square holes, this is going to need a serious rebuild, but it's not as if the team is tied up with a ton of bad contracts for a long time. It can happen relatively quickly, but it will take a couple of years at the very least before United can challenge, and a part of that will also be in part because of Pep's departure if City can't find the right man to continue their dominance.
Good portion of people that are turning against him this early, they just losing their shit due potential miss on top 4. I swear there are people in here who really dont give a shit about any other issue this corporation have, as long its in CL next season.
Personally, not enough time passed for me to have a go at RR, sure after the games you can tell how you saw them but thats about it. On other hand there are maybe some issues there. Like going away from his way due majority of starters are not capable to execute such demands, feck them then.
People tend to say how good manager adapts to tools he has at his disposal but thats results game and we shouldnt be in it, this supposed to be our switch in to something different, adapting to this fecking bunch is just waste of time. I mean last night, we had at least 2 players in starting XI that shouldnt be here at all, Matic and Jones should be released after their contracts expired and yet here we are.
Personally, not enough time passed for me to have a go at RR, sure after the games you can tell how you saw them but thats about it. On other hand there are maybe some issues there. Like going away from his way due majority of starters are not capable to execute such demands, feck them then.
People tend to say how good manager adapts to tools he has at his disposal but thats results game and we shouldnt be in it, this supposed to be our switch in to something different, adapting to this fecking bunch is just waste of time. I mean last night, we had at least 2 players in starting XI that shouldnt be here at all, Matic and Jones should be released after their contracts expired and yet here we are.
Yeah know he's interim but needs a cheap DM and Alvarez as well which looks highly unlikely
Everyone can turn on Rangnick all they like, he isn't going anywhere as an interim so best to just get behind him from fan perspective he needs at least another month before I am going to judge him but of course at the moment the positive signs are at a minimum. What has become evident is that we are further away from competing at the top of the league than I ever imagined...
It is fascinating to think what the reasoning behind the huge issues we are facing at the moment though, don't think I have ever seen anything like it from a team with as much 'talent' as the current squad anywhere previously. It doesn't even make sense when watching the games (majority this season but more so recently) what on earth has and is still happening with our club.
The main issue I see on the pitch is the fact that we can't even get the absolute basics right. Sure the centrally midfield lacks talent which explains why we very rarely win the midfield battle and get hold of games but even simple passing seems to be absolutely impossible for most of the team, lack of chemistry and looking more miserable than me at work tomorrow after Xmas annual leave.
A couple things I will say is that why is Rashford getting game time? He is so far out of form he is truly terrible, surely Lingard would be a better option off the bench? Or has he downed tools too. Also the VDB obsession for game time needs to stop, with multiple coaches there must be a reason why none of them give him minutes. From an outsiders perspective it can seem strange but there is no way that he would not be getting game time if things are as they seem with him or maybe I am missing something?
It is fascinating to think what the reasoning behind the huge issues we are facing at the moment though, don't think I have ever seen anything like it from a team with as much 'talent' as the current squad anywhere previously. It doesn't even make sense when watching the games (majority this season but more so recently) what on earth has and is still happening with our club.
The main issue I see on the pitch is the fact that we can't even get the absolute basics right. Sure the centrally midfield lacks talent which explains why we very rarely win the midfield battle and get hold of games but even simple passing seems to be absolutely impossible for most of the team, lack of chemistry and looking more miserable than me at work tomorrow after Xmas annual leave.
A couple things I will say is that why is Rashford getting game time? He is so far out of form he is truly terrible, surely Lingard would be a better option off the bench? Or has he downed tools too. Also the VDB obsession for game time needs to stop, with multiple coaches there must be a reason why none of them give him minutes. From an outsiders perspective it can seem strange but there is no way that he would not be getting game time if things are as they seem with him or maybe I am missing something?
And this post and others in this thread are part of the problem. Manchester United's success since the 1990s and its most spectacular achievements outside of that legendary European Cup win with Bobby, Bestie and C relied on NOT doing the managerial merry-go-round and prioritising sackings and panic as the way to go.
Instability doesn't bring success - that is why Ole was allowed the time he was but in key matches towards the end it became clearer that he lacks that Ferguson ability to know when to take calculated risks. I suggest some of you go off to the Liverpool and Manchester City sites as you aren't prepared to actually be a suppprter of Manchester Unitd when the outcome isn't good.
What part of the new Manager Rangnick did not buy the present squad and cannot magic up a new one in a few weeks don't you understand?
This whingefest and slagjob on the new manager are the stuff of fairweather numpties. If you'd been around in the first few years of Alex Ferguson you would have been the malcontents screaming for his head. POQ.
Even if you don't like him turning on an interim isn't even worth the energy it would take to kneejerk. He's a feckin interim, he wasn't getting hired anyway. One can always go into the permanent manager thread and stay there till season's end. Because campaigning against an interim is a special kind of thick. There isn't even anything to campaign against.
This
A couple of issues I have with him now is that he is making the same mistake that LVG did. These players are not good enough to play football the way he wants them to play. None of them can control a football. For 6 years they are used to playing the same kind of counter attacking football. Which means the less possession you have the better. His team selection was all wrong to me. It is understandable that given how Matic and McTominay played against Newcastle he would select them. He could get Kante into this midfield and still it would be the same. He needs someone who has a decent first touch and can control the ball and make a good pass. He does not have it.
What is the solution. Change of formation. He is never going to be able to play like this with Greenwood and Sancho. If he wants to go two up, he needs different players.
What is the solution. Change of formation. He is never going to be able to play like this with Greenwood and Sancho. If he wants to go two up, he needs different players.
Everyone said similar things about Wenger when he went to Arsenal.
He's new - he has to be able to try different formations and strategies, and see what works and what doesn't. Rangnick doesn't have the luxury of the time and support that the early Alex Ferguson had, for example.
In pre-season it would of course be much better for him to do that but the reality of the football season can't be adjusted. Rangnick has to experiment to some extent and those 'fans' who expect instant success and the squad we have to suddenly change are deluded and fairweather.
I don't particularly get the complaints that he's a second-rate manager, because obviously he's a second-rate manager. That's why he is currently caretaking in that role rather than being a permanent hire. Expecting him to be or perform like a top level coach is stupid, he isn't one and wasn't hired to be one.
Rangnick's reputation is largely built on work he did above the manager level and most of the potential upside of having him at the club comes in the shape of having him in a consultancy role at that level too. He just happens to be filling in as interim manager for the time being, because we stupidly put ourselves in a position where we had that vacancy and had to fill it with a second-rate manager of some stripe. And if you have to hire an interim manager, you might as well pick the one you get some potential longer term benefit from. But some of the posts here seem to be treating him as if he's a Tuchel or a Klopp, someone we brought in to have massive impact from the manager's seat.
People need more realistic expectations. Once we were at the point where we reluctantly had to bring in Rangnick in as interim manager then the questions for this season were already a) how much of a salvage job could he do and b) how many of the issues involved in getting this group of players organised and pressing like a top level side could we expedite into this season, so the next manager isn't starting from absolute scratch. Obviously we hoped we'd get the most positive possible results but when the club had already fecked the season that badly you can only expect it to get unfecked so much by your not-top-level interim appointment.
Rangnick's reputation is largely built on work he did above the manager level and most of the potential upside of having him at the club comes in the shape of having him in a consultancy role at that level too. He just happens to be filling in as interim manager for the time being, because we stupidly put ourselves in a position where we had that vacancy and had to fill it with a second-rate manager of some stripe. And if you have to hire an interim manager, you might as well pick the one you get some potential longer term benefit from. But some of the posts here seem to be treating him as if he's a Tuchel or a Klopp, someone we brought in to have massive impact from the manager's seat.
People need more realistic expectations. Once we were at the point where we reluctantly had to bring in Rangnick in as interim manager then the questions for this season were already a) how much of a salvage job could he do and b) how many of the issues involved in getting this group of players organised and pressing like a top level side could we expedite into this season, so the next manager isn't starting from absolute scratch. Obviously we hoped we'd get the most positive possible results but when the club had already fecked the season that badly you can only expect it to get unfecked so much by your not-top-level interim appointment.
I'm not turning on him yet because there's something weird going on behind the scenes here. What we're seeing doesn't resemble what he is about at all.
Something is seriously wrong with our club and he still might be the man to fix it, but not as the head coach after this season. Let him focus on fixing the behind the scenes issues and put someone else in as head coach.
With the caveat being, only if he is really interested in changing our structure and 100% behind the project. Because my one concern now is that he really did just take the interim role as a quick paycheck until the end of the season and some consultancy cash for a couple of years. I hope that's not the case.
Something is seriously wrong with our club and he still might be the man to fix it, but not as the head coach after this season. Let him focus on fixing the behind the scenes issues and put someone else in as head coach.
With the caveat being, only if he is really interested in changing our structure and 100% behind the project. Because my one concern now is that he really did just take the interim role as a quick paycheck until the end of the season and some consultancy cash for a couple of years. I hope that's not the case.
Tell that to Real Madrid, Chelsea, etc.
For me, Rangnick's making questionable decisions in selection and in-game management. I've never been a manager-cult kind of person, so I'll call him out.
Still can't believe he's making some of the same decisions as the previous guy and expecting different results.
Why does the new manager think this? He can only pick who he has available to him
It’s laughable you think are players have the same footballing iq as de bruyne
I get it, your a Man Utd fan, but you need to balanced in your options
Finishing second and third has clearly given you false hope, reality is we were a country mile away from winning with this squad of players and have been under multiple managers now
But yer, must be the managers, we won’t win anything with anyone until the standard of that midfield is raised and until we get some players who understand how to play wide.
It’s painfully obvious
The thing is Rangnick isn't some great manager -
He is more famous for influencing Klopp and Tuchel than doing things with a club.
He is more famous for influencing Klopp and Tuchel than doing things with a club.
Right on, the guy isn't a top manager but I think he is easily good enough for the role he has been given because even if he isn't a great like Klopp he still has an impressive body of work as a coach.
The things he has done like bringing up Hoffeneim, taking Shalke to the CL and building up the RB clubs from scratch are very impressive. Whilst he isn't glittering with silverware he should be good enough to compete for top, which is about the extent of our ambitions this season.
The challenge is that he is pandering too much to the players and has quickly resorted to the 'let's rely on individual brilliance' mentality that gets you easy goals but mess up team cohesion. I think the time he has spent as a suit has blunted the sharp edges he might have as a coach and he is now pandering too much to the politics and marketing side because some players are getting in on reputation not suitability to his methods.
He has to buck up his ideas because if he doesn't do well in this stint he won't have authority in his next role which would be quite a shame.
I think the point of this is not so much the fans turning on rangnick, but rather I think the players have.
There are maybe a handful of players who are giving it their all and the rest seem to be giving the bare minimum.
It's all well and good picking the bones out of formations, selections and style of play, but no manager is going to do much with a bunch of overpaid, lazy and incompetent players as we've amassed.
What people should be more concerned about is whether rangnick himself feels this is worth his time and effort? He must be thinking to himself has he made a big mistake joining Utd.
Managers and coaches can only do so much, but you need to have committed and professional players to make it work, Utd don't have much of those. I foresee things getting really toxic soon and the media are absolutely going to be scathing. I really feel he's in an impossible position and isn't worth the effort and fallout. He's not getting paid enough, to deal with this awful job, he has on his hands.
There are maybe a handful of players who are giving it their all and the rest seem to be giving the bare minimum.
It's all well and good picking the bones out of formations, selections and style of play, but no manager is going to do much with a bunch of overpaid, lazy and incompetent players as we've amassed.
What people should be more concerned about is whether rangnick himself feels this is worth his time and effort? He must be thinking to himself has he made a big mistake joining Utd.
Managers and coaches can only do so much, but you need to have committed and professional players to make it work, Utd don't have much of those. I foresee things getting really toxic soon and the media are absolutely going to be scathing. I really feel he's in an impossible position and isn't worth the effort and fallout. He's not getting paid enough, to deal with this awful job, he has on his hands.
The Manager was the problem for me tonight
Playing ageing Ronaldo 3 times a week is rediculous and demoralising for the other players as he does nothing
Playing a 2 man midfield against wolves is also mind blowing
Taking Greenwood off was just plain incompetence
This ain’t going to end well
It seems this season has been written off already and the best we will come is 7th if we keep playing like this
Playing ageing Ronaldo 3 times a week is rediculous and demoralising for the other players as he does nothing
Playing a 2 man midfield against wolves is also mind blowing
Taking Greenwood off was just plain incompetence
This ain’t going to end well
It seems this season has been written off already and the best we will come is 7th if we keep playing like this
That was an idiotic move, the smart money would have been VDB and Bruno on for Sancho and Cavani/Ronaldo and pushing Greenwood up top. We needed an extra body in midfield and someone like Donny would have enabled us to have a foothold in that midfield.
It was time for Ole to go, to be sure. But let’s not forget Ole guided the same squad (inferior, actually) to 2nd and a club record unbeaten away streak.
Those of you who are dismissive of Ole’s accomplishments, just look at what Rangnick has done. We are further from a philosophy or style than we were under Ole. The players clearly don’t respect Ralf, nor the new coach Armas. How can you? Neither has won anything or even played in a top league.
Really, really shite. Was so disgusted after watching Wolves, I couldn’t bear to watch post game interviews.
So, so disappointed.
Those of you who are dismissive of Ole’s accomplishments, just look at what Rangnick has done. We are further from a philosophy or style than we were under Ole. The players clearly don’t respect Ralf, nor the new coach Armas. How can you? Neither has won anything or even played in a top league.
Really, really shite. Was so disgusted after watching Wolves, I couldn’t bear to watch post game interviews.
So, so disappointed.
This thread title "Turning on Rangnick" sounds like a matter for his wife, not for the rest of us. Seriously though, if what we seeing is short term pain for long term gain then bring it on but if it's just our players being the usual overpaid prima donnas who don't want to put the hard yards in then there are serious issues at the club.
Yep 100% agree with you
It’s like He was watching a different game
The Manager is actually there to help the team
It wasn’t that difficult to fix
But you do? You're not one of the experts on the caf then?
People on here talking about him maybe be Wenger. Well, give him a 3 year contract and I back him 100%.
But, that consultancy role is just a paydown for these six months.
He got hired here to get maximum results comme may. Let that sink in please.
It is clear he cant give us maximum results THIS season.
Therefor we must:
a) give him a 3 year contract as a manager
b) fire him and get a new interim or hire a new permanent manager
It will take 5 games more before a or b happens. And then we are in feburary. He is our Nuno.
Sorry.