Last competitive game of the season. 14:00 BST, live on MUTV.
U21s: United vs Leicester
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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The trialist is apparently Salford’s Kelly N’Mai. Dutch winger who just turned 19.
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Leicester player goes past Mengi in the box, but Jurado saves the shot off the line with his head.
1-0. What a finish outside the box from Emeran.
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Antony-esque
Kambwala sent off. Very dubious second yellow...
Extremely harsh sending off Kambwala there.
56’ 1-1
Sending off has sort of ruined the game, Leicester equalise 1-1.
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Murray came on for N’Mai before the equaliser.
60’
Gore & Forson on
Wellens & Oyedele off
Gore & Forson on
Wellens & Oyedele off
Bad tackle that on Popov from Oyedele
64’
Leicester take the lead with a good free kick from the edge of the area.
Leicester take the lead with a good free kick from the edge of the area.
I don't think I've ever been so bored by watching our U21. No prospects, no flair, no heart. They just give away cheap goals and stand by watching. No coherence, no individuals. A really, really poor team that is, rightly, one of the worst teams in the league. Where are we going from here? What is the point of this team? Half of our team is over 20 as well.
Agree with some of that definitely.
To me the bigger question is what is the point of this competition? Not that I have a solution in my mind but this PL2 doesn’t offer much in terms of player development.
71’
Vitek saves the Leicester pen after Murray brought down an opponent inside the area.
Vitek saves the Leicester pen after Murray brought down an opponent inside the area.
Our U18s and U21s are deeply concerning, it's hard to see where the next first teamer comes from. We desperately need to modernise the academy.
Fantastic FK from Emeran
84’ 2-2
Emeran with an even better free kick.
Emeran with an even better free kick.
FT 2-2
on the site you are basically saying Emeran is shit
I agree that the U21 team has been poor, and quite depressing, to watch this season. And the ones playing regularly look unlikely to make it here. Though I guess Garnacho and Mainoo are the two from that group that can step up - and have already done so to various degrees so haven't been available to play much for the U21's, which is a good thing in the bigger picture.
I've not got great hopes for many of the 17 and 18 year olds in the current U18's. Though 15 year old Shea Lacey has been good to watch and looks a real prospect. And pleased to hear we seem to be doing well at U13 and 14 level so hopefully there's a decent crop coming through.
But, yeah, the gap between the likes of Hannibal, Fernandez, Garnacho and Mainoo to Shea Lacey - so the current U21 and senior U18 players - don't look like producing (m)any first teamers. Though there's some 'solid' players like Gore and Oyedele that could kick on to a decent level.
Then again I think we've done very well in the sense that our best U21s are either in the first team setup or getting a lot of minutes on loan in Championship. Sure the ones that are left are maybe somewhat lacking in talent, but having the names you mentioned playing on a much higher level than the PL2 is also a testament to how well we've done recruitment-wise.
True.
I was trying to cover that point, yeah, by saying we've got some talented U21 available players that are either in the first team squad or out on loan. And look to be having some decent success at the younger age groups as well.
But the actual players playing for the U18's and U21's this season havent really impressed or stood out individually. But, yeah, much better to have the likes of Hannibal, Fernandez, Garnacho and Mainoo out on loan or in our first team squad rather than still playing pretty meaningless U21 games.
No you did, I didn't really mean to argue any of the points you said. I'd say our U18s core is decent with a lot of good 16 and 17-year olds. PL2 is such a pointless competition, don't know what they could do to improve that.
I can't really see anything major that they can do to change it, tbh. I guess whatever you call it - reserves, PL2, U23, U21's - it's always just going to be a pretty meaningless competition in terms of results, and is just there to help bridge the short term gap between U18's and senior football in a players development.
I think that purpose is fine for players when they're aged between 18-20, as some just aren't ready physically for senior football at those ages, while others maybe just aren't ready enough to guarantee regular games out on loan.
The biggest issue is when players are still playing regularly in it at ages 21-23. But I guess that fault lies more with the club / coaches when that happens as it's poor planning for a players development. Unless there's justifiable reasons such as injuries, then players by that age should either have progressed to the first team squad, be out on loan in senior football, or been sold permanently, rather than still playing regularly in PL2 games.
Yeah kind of agree. Maybe it's a case of memories growing sweeter with time, but I think it was better when it was genuinely a reserves' league. Then again back then maybe the pathway to first team football was even harder.
But right now it's basically a U19 league despite the name. Not sure if they've managed to do it any better elsewhere in Europe, I'd be interested in hearing from posters who know how it is in Italy for example. I think in Spain, Germany and Netherlands clubs can have their II/B team playing in lower leagues which of course is ideal for the development of young players, but probably not great for the football pyramid as the reserves would take away crucial lower league spots from smaller clubs.
But yeah I don't have a solution for it either but I think everyone in England recognizes the issues with the competition.
B teams are by the far the best solution to giving players at this age meaningful & competitive football that will help them develop. But the idea would simply never run in the English game.
Yeah, agree with both about the B teams.
That would be the best solution for the top clubs and their players, but, as has been pointed out, it won't go down well / be voted in by the lower league clubs and their fans. There's already enough resentment about the U21's involvement in the EFL Trophy, and fears that it's the first step to B teams being in the league. Increased price money has allowed their inclusion in that competition but, sadly, can't see any way they'd agree to B teams in the league pyramid.
That would be the best solution for the top clubs and their players, but, as has been pointed out, it won't go down well / be voted in by the lower league clubs and their fans. There's already enough resentment about the U21's involvement in the EFL Trophy, and fears that it's the first step to B teams being in the league. Increased price money has allowed their inclusion in that competition but, sadly, can't see any way they'd agree to B teams in the league pyramid.
That’s exactly how it is, you’re right. Guess if there was an easy solution to it, the FA would’ve already done it. Then again it’s the FA so not necessarily
Actually publicising and televising it rather than hiding it away as an irrelevance might help. This bullshit rule about how it can't clash with first team games or whatever is ludicrous. The other thing that would be good would be for them to play more games and have more involvement from senior players. If they had significant chunks of the season where they were playing twice a week, with and against 2 or 3 first teamers the majority of the time, I think it would do a lot more for them than these tame setups where all the top talents are generally out on loan unless they're very young.
Tbh I would disagree with most of the points stated above. You guys are acting as if most of the other U21s crops are full of top talents. Nope. Almost never had been. I have watched the crops with the Grimshaw, Love and Weir winning games after games.
I think we should step up the management/coaching at this level. Impacted by injuries and the promotion of Garnacho/Mainoo etc but decent number of this U21s group are still FA Youth Cup winners and there are the likes of Hansen and Gore who are good talents that should be nurtured in a better environment than this. Even the likes of Jurado, Emeran etc etc have totally stagnant once they reached this level (no they are not first team materials but are decent talents who can go on to have good career with good coaching and career planning). Our style of play etc is much better at U18s level so it's really something we should have a deep look at. You can't totally rely on the loan system to improve players 18-21 years old as it's super dependent on external factors that are outside of your control.
I think we should step up the management/coaching at this level. Impacted by injuries and the promotion of Garnacho/Mainoo etc but decent number of this U21s group are still FA Youth Cup winners and there are the likes of Hansen and Gore who are good talents that should be nurtured in a better environment than this. Even the likes of Jurado, Emeran etc etc have totally stagnant once they reached this level (no they are not first team materials but are decent talents who can go on to have good career with good coaching and career planning). Our style of play etc is much better at U18s level so it's really something we should have a deep look at. You can't totally rely on the loan system to improve players 18-21 years old as it's super dependent on external factors that are outside of your control.
What specifically would you like to see modernised?
Was reading an MEN article about Uniteds tough U21 season which pointed out they had a very young Ave group of 19.1 compared to the rest of the league due to putting priority in development over results. The article also suggested City deliberately held players back prioritising winning over development.
sounds fair enough until you google PL2 teams average ages and find 19.1 made United one of oldest average age groups in the league, and City as league winners had youngest group with Ave age of around 18.2.
i Imagine playing Huddlestone could have distorted the figures, but sounds like press department working with MEN to fool the fans with such releases?
sounds fair enough until you google PL2 teams average ages and find 19.1 made United one of oldest average age groups in the league, and City as league winners had youngest group with Ave age of around 18.2.
i Imagine playing Huddlestone could have distorted the figures, but sounds like press department working with MEN to fool the fans with such releases?
I wouldn’t take anything MEN writes seriously.
Fed storie
MUFC also quoted the same, yet 19.1 makes them one of oldest u21 sides according to transfer market. What is clear is United do give opportunities earlier in isolated cases such as Kobbie Mainoo
I have been trying to say that here too. The same myth goes around here, that United is so young. In fact, we are not younger than any other team. Almost all other clubs have an average age of around 19.