U23's: Derby (H) Monday 7pm

Ace of Spades

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He was at fault and needs to learn, but the refs are also trash and need to seriously improve on this own shit level of performance.
 

mazhar13

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I think we’d be kidding ourselves to assume he’ll get a hell of a lot more protection from PL referees, never mind if he goes out on loan to a Championship team like Garner did (which might be a better next move) Look at Grealish. He plays in a similar way to Hannibal and gets the living shit kicked out of him every week. Imagine he shoved an imaginary yellow card up the referee’s nose every time he got a tug on his shirt?!


Aggression is fine but petulance never goes down well, at any level.
To give you a little bit of hope, this is the first time in months where I've seen Hannibal react so petulantly. He is getting better at reacting to these sort of challenges, and I think he finally let go of his restraint in the final match of the season. Given what we've seen so far, I would expect him to keep his restraint in senior football just as we've seen similar restraint from other players who get kicked about (even if they do feign or embellish contact like Grealish).
 

Ali Dia

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I think we’d be kidding ourselves to assume he’ll get a hell of a lot more protection from PL referees, never mind if he goes out on loan to a Championship team like Garner did (which might be a better next move) Look at Grealish. He plays in a similar way to Hannibal and gets the living shit kicked out of him every week. Imagine he shoved an imaginary yellow card up the referee’s nose every time he got a tug on his shirt?!


Aggression is fine but petulance never goes down well, at any level.
I hate petulance but if it’s your player like a young Ronnie you take it as part of their game and try and talk them out of it as they age. I don’t think Hannibal is a genius like Ronnie but I think he can make an impact for us if he’s given a shot. He would 100% get sent off for that in the PL and if you’re waiting on Ole to put you back in if you did… I’m sure he’s seen the rotation policy this season.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I hate petulance but if it’s your player like a young Ronnie you take it as part of their game and try and talk them out of it as they age. I don’t think Hannibal is a genius like Ronnie but I think he can make an impact for us if he’s given a shot. He would 100% get sent off for that in the PL and if you’re waiting on Ole to put you back in if you did… I’m sure he’s seen the rotation policy this season.
Yeah, his is yong and lernin. Just like Ronnie was back in the day. That’s why I’m perversely pleased about the red card. Great learning experience for him. Far better he learns that lesson in a nothing game like today than as a first teamer, or trying to establish himself on loan.
 

AltiUn

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I think we’d be kidding ourselves to assume he’ll get a hell of a lot more protection from PL referees, never mind if he goes out on loan to a Championship team like Garner did (which might be a better next move) Look at Grealish. He plays in a similar way to Hannibal and gets the living shit kicked out of him every week. Imagine he shoved an imaginary yellow card up the referee’s nose every time he got a tug on his shirt?!


Aggression is fine but petulance never goes down well, at any level.
I said a while ago he needs to sort out his temper, in all honesty for a few months he's been absolutely fine. A part of me wonders if this him knowing it's the last game of the season, and possibly his last U23 game, and just letting out his frustrations at the terrible refereeing he's endured all season. You can see even from that short clip why it might be less of an issue at first team level, like the commentators said, 3 players got booked for their challenges on Grealish there which is where Mejbri's frustrations seem to be stemming from.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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Think we can't ruin have Mejbri in the u23 next year. Definitely needs a decent loan or else he will get both legs broken due to horrendous reffing.

He was at fault today, but you can only get kicked so much.
 

DWelbz19

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He gets kicked off the park every game and you are complaining about his antics.
It’s insane stuff, man. The treatment he gets genuinely bemuses me.
 

AltiUn

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Think we can't ruin have Mejbri in the u23 next year. Definitely needs a decent loan or else he will get both legs broken due to horrendous reffing.

He was at fault today, but you can only get kicked so much.
Not sure we need to send him out on loan. With our top talents we seem to prefer keeping them at the club, and if we feel they're in need of a loan we typically send them out on loan when they're 19.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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Not sure we need to send him out on loan. With our top talents we seem to prefer keeping them at the club, and if we feel they're in need of a loan we typically send them out on loan when they're 19.
So you reckon they'll send him on loan in January? Probably a good shout to be honest. Hopefully he has one leg by then
 

AltiUn

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So you reckon they'll send him on loan in January? Probably a good shout to be honest. Hopefully he has one leg by then
There's a chance. I think we'll give him some minutes in the build up to January to test the waters and see how he takes to first team football.
 

Bertie Wooster

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Since when did “waving an imaginary yellow” still get you a booking. You’re allowed to hound a referee as a team and demand yellows, but wave your hand like you’re giving a card? Nah. Too far.
Yeah, I made that point as well.

It's really frustrating how, in the UK, we seem relatively fine with players verbally demanding the ref change their decision, and doing it in large numbers surrounding him. But an individual player doing it by waving an imaginary card - so waving nothing but his hand - is deemed completely unacceptable and something 'foreign players have brought over'.

It's the same with diving. No forms of cheating are really 'acceptable'. But there's so many forms of it that are classed over here as just 'gamesmanship' and 'part of the game'. But diving - which is seen as just that in most other countries - is deemed the ultimate footballing sin over here.
 

AltiUn

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Again, it's difficult to argue that his frustration isn't justified. We've been beating a dead horse about refereeing again this season but it's been a disgusting showing. Not a single one of these referees should be anywhere near a football pitch. They cannot be trusted to keep the players safe, they're not responsible enough to be officiating.
 

Idxomer

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A lot of referees have an obvious inferiority complex but English refs take that up to a whole new level.

It's the Michael Oliver school of referring, all the new refs seem to look up to him.
 

city-puma

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Again, it's difficult to argue that his frustration isn't justified. We've been beating a dead horse about refereeing again this season but it's been a disgusting showing. Not a single one of these referees should be anywhere near a football pitch. They cannot be trusted to keep the players safe, they're not responsible enough to be officiating.
Who is the No.11 in the Derby team? He is so disgusting! As a person, he must be disgusting as well.
I don’t get why some of our fan base think Hannibal behave badly in this situation!
 

Jeppers7

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a reminder that we have received 6 bookings to their 1 tonight
Always the same, refs have subconscious bias towards who they deem themselves more similar to and ego’s too big to be questioned. Like some of our supposed fans.

Support the lads getting the shite kicked out of them every week.
 
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Jeppers7

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Again, it's difficult to argue that his frustration isn't justified. We've been beating a dead horse about refereeing again this season but it's been a disgusting showing. Not a single one of these referees should be anywhere near a football pitch. They cannot be trusted to keep the players safe, they're not responsible enough to be officiating.
Cant blame the kid. Attitudes in this country are simply bizarre. Reacting aggressively to a player who’s demonstratably better is acceptable. Reacting to the aggression is not. :lol: It’s not waving imaginary cards that needs punishing...it’s the behaviour that leads to the reaction that needs to be punished. Referees facilitate these situations and aggressors are rewarded. The poor fecker who just wants to play football is punished.
 

Mickson

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Hannibal is done in the U23. No way he should play there next season. 1) he won't come out alive, 2) been there done that, he's too good for that level next season.
 

always_hoping

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Disappointing end to a disappointing U23 campaign. 10 wins and 10 defeats. Only Man City scored more than Uniteds 58 goals but its at the other end where the problems was. 59 goals conceded and only bottom of the table Southampton conceded more.
 

calodo2003

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Since when did “waving an imaginary yellow” still get you a booking. You’re allowed to hound a referee as a team and demand yellows, but wave your hand like you’re giving a card? Nah. Too far.
Wasn’t that made into a bookable offense a few years back?
 

lysglimt

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Oh show some support for a United player from once, rather than siding with the psycho so-called refs.
So you think I should support a United-player who did something which everyone can agree was wrong - and who will get an ear-bashing from Ryan for doing it - and not side with the referee who did his job and gave him a yellow card

Since 2006 the rules have been yellow card for:

1 Waving of imaginary card to have an opponent booked.
 

lysglimt

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Seriously, I don't see how any United fan (read: United fan, not a football fan) would have a go at Hannibal here. Sure, he was petulant and deserved a yellow, but given what he goes through, how can you not feel any empathy (or even sympathy) for him?

Then again, the same United fans berated Ronaldo when he was here, so...
Thats not the issue - of course he should be protected by the referee. But he cant lose his head every time he gets frustrated. And it hasn't only to do with poor refereeing decision - it has happened frequently when United haven't played well. Kicking the ball away, arguing with the referee.

There have been many matches where he has been kicked to the ground repeatedly - this was not one of those games. And he can't lash out every time he gets a decision against him, because he will have a manager and 10 teammates trusting him to keep his feelings in check. And at the moment, he can't be trusted to do just that.
 

lsd

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Who is the No.11 in the Derby team? He is so disgusting! As a person, he must be disgusting as well.
I don’t get why some of our fan base think Hannibal behave badly in this situation!

Louie Watson he is a Liverpool fan
 

city-puma

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Louie Watson he is a Liverpool fan
I just watched the video again. Not only No.11, but also No.7 and No.6. They somehow were humiliated because they just couldn’t get the ball off from Hannibal no matter how hard they tried. Then, they decided to race to get close to Hannibal just to knock him out.
 

mazhar13

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I know this is the Hannibal thread, but I couldn’t find any other - anybody watch the match and could share abit about which players did well etc?
There wasn't much of note in this match for United. Reece Devine looked like the best player throughout the match. McNeill and Hansen struggled to impose themselves against more physically developed players, which meant that our attacks were mostly toothless. Shoretire sort of ran through the motions and didn't necessarily do too much, whilst Hannibal looked like our best attacking player but then lost his cool and was sent off. McCann and Helm looked pretty good in the midfield; both pressed and tackled quite well, and both did a good job in bringing the ball forward and passing it. Helm coming off, however, meant that we started to lose control of the midfield, with Savage also struggling against more physically developed opposition. In the second half, after Hannibal got sent off, United basically started giving up and conceded well-worked goals mainly because the midfield couldn't recover back into their positions on time. Fish and Taylor looked pretty good in the first half, but in the second half, Fish looked off the pace against a 21-year-old Cresswell, particularly when we took Taylor off and brought Fernandez in. Charlie Wellens looked pretty good at right back once again, which is making me think that we let go of both Hughes and Neville because of him as well as Jurado coming up.

Overall, we matched up quite well to Derby in the first half. Sure, our attacks were blunt, but we looked defensively quite solid. The only time we lost it defensively was when Savage came on, and that's when spaces opened up in the midfield. The sending off only worsened matters, and the whole team slowly gave up.
 

mazhar13

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Thats not the issue - of course he should be protected by the referee. But he cant lose his head every time he gets frustrated. And it hasn't only to do with poor refereeing decision - it has happened frequently when United haven't played well. Kicking the ball away, arguing with the referee.

There have been many matches where he has been kicked to the ground repeatedly - this was not one of those games. And he can't lash out every time he gets a decision against him, because he will have a manager and 10 teammates trusting him to keep his feelings in check. And at the moment, he can't be trusted to do just that.
My issue is that we're focusing too much on what happened today and extrapolating it to his whole season and ignoring the progress he's made with his temperament (as if taking a negative view is neutral). At the start of the U23 season, he was as bad as he was today; he'd lose his head real easily, give away the ball a ton, and just mope his way through the matches. As the season progressed, though, he improved on this front and became an even better player for it, even getting called into first-team training as a result.

Today, we see him fall back to the issues from the beginning of the season, and we have you and Pogue thinking that he's been like this whole time, as if the rest of the season was just a mirage. Isn't this unfair? Why not take what happened today and events from the first bit of the season in conjunction with what we've seen from the rest of it? Basically, why are we ignoring the progress in his temperament?
 

Davie Moyes

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Again, it's difficult to argue that his frustration isn't justified. We've been beating a dead horse about refereeing again this season but it's been a disgusting showing. Not a single one of these referees should be anywhere near a football pitch. They cannot be trusted to keep the players safe, they're not responsible enough to be officiating.
What the hell. I did not watch the match but those tackles on him were disgraceful and this is supposedly a match where he did not get knocked about so much.

It's not how bad the tackles were but it's the intent on each of the tackles that should have all resulted in yellow cards. None of them were attempts at trying to legit win the ball. They were all kicks at him because they could not get the ball off him. There's no way opposition players would get away with those in first team football.

Just watching that brief clip I think this guy is going to be an absolute star. He just struts about the pitch doing what he wants. He knows he is good and so do the opposition hence why he gets kicked all over the place. Reminds me of a young Cesc Fabregas in play style. Or even a Carlos Valderama even if you ignore the hair which is impossible.

Do you see the look he gives the ref when recieving the red card. It's almost like I'm going to be a superstar soon and you are a nobody and a shite ref to boot.
 

city-puma

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What the hell. I did not watch the match but those tackles on him were disgraceful and this is supposedly a match where he did not get knocked about so much.

It's not how bad the tackles were but it's the intent on each of the tackles that should have all resulted in yellow cards. None of them were attempts at trying to legit win the ball. They were all kicks at him because they could not get the ball off him. There's no way opposition players would get away with those in first team football.

Just watching that brief clip I think this guy is going to be an absolute star. He just struts about the pitch doing what he wants. He knows he is good and so do the opposition hence why he gets kicked all over the place. Reminds me of a young Cesc Fabregas in play style. Or even a Carlos Valderama even if you ignore the hair which is impossible.

Do you see the look he gives the ref when recieving the red card. It's almost like I'm going to be a superstar soon and you are a nobody and a shite ref to boot.
Absolutely!
The intentional kick by that No.11 will be a sure red card in the professional games. Disgusting behavior!
 

jackal&hyde

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Think we can't ruin have Mejbri in the u23 next year. Definitely needs a decent loan or else he will get both legs broken due to horrendous reffing.

He was at fault today, but you can only get kicked so much.
This. Needs to be in the first team or a loan to Spain. Referees at the PL2 level are still in the 70s.
 

Grande

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There wasn't much of note in this match for United. Reece Devine looked like the best player throughout the match. McNeill and Hansen struggled to impose themselves against more physically developed players, which meant that our attacks were mostly toothless. Shoretire sort of ran through the motions and didn't necessarily do too much, whilst Hannibal looked like our best attacking player but then lost his cool and was sent off. McCann and Helm looked pretty good in the midfield; both pressed and tackled quite well, and both did a good job in bringing the ball forward and passing it. Helm coming off, however, meant that we started to lose control of the midfield, with Savage also struggling against more physically developed opposition. In the second half, after Hannibal got sent off, United basically started giving up and conceded well-worked goals mainly because the midfield couldn't recover back into their positions on time. Fish and Taylor looked pretty good in the first half, but in the second half, Fish looked off the pace against a 21-year-old Cresswell, particularly when we took Taylor off and brought Fernandez in. Charlie Wellens looked pretty good at right back once again, which is making me think that we let go of both Hughes and Neville because of him as well as Jurado coming up.

Overall, we matched up quite well to Derby in the first half. Sure, our attacks were blunt, but we looked defensively quite solid. The only time we lost it defensively was when Savage came on, and that's when spaces opened up in the midfield. The sending off only worsened matters, and the whole team slowly gave up.
Thanks!
 

Marwood

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He rarely gets a metion but I think Devine looks a good player. His basics are very solid, more so than Williams I think. On top of that he's quick and fairly strong.

On Hannibal, it's nothing to worry about. A young player being young. I'd rather they start with too much attitude than too little.
 

Dan_F

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Wasn’t that made into a bookable offense a few years back?
Yeah, but you see it all the time in the Premier League without a booking. You also see players hounding the referees in packs and verbally asking why a player isn’t being booked (what’s the difference, the foreigner probably does it using a sign as he can’t speak English as well?). Or someone is allowed to commit four fouls in a half without getting a yellow.

There should be reforms in the game around punishments, but I wouldn’t trust them to get it right anyway.
 

calodo2003

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Yeah, but you see it all the time in the Premier League without a booking. You also see players hounding the referees in packs and verbally asking why a player isn’t being booked (what’s the difference, the foreigner probably does it using a sign as he can’t speak English as well?). Or someone is allowed to commit four fouls in a half without getting a yellow.

There should be reforms in the game around punishments, but I wouldn’t trust them to get it right anyway.
Totally agree.

It was a cop out to make another basically objective physical display a bookable offense without tackling the root problem of referee intimidation.
 

Mickson

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He rarely gets a metion but I think Devine looks a good player. His basics are very solid, more so than Williams I think. On top of that he's quick and fairly strong.

On Hannibal, it's nothing to worry about. A young player being young. I'd rather they start with too much attitude than too little.
He got mentioned a lot last season. The reason no one is mentioning him now is that he has been poor this season. He was good last night though. I imagine that he won't be here next season.
 

Marwood

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He got mentioned a lot last season. The reason no one is mentioning him now is that he has been poor this season. He was good last night though. I imagine that he won't be here next season.
He's been played out of position a lot at CB. A big caveat when rating his season.

If he's to leave I think a few championship clubs should be taking a chance on him.
 

lysglimt

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He got mentioned a lot last season. The reason no one is mentioning him now is that he has been poor this season. He was good last night though. I imagine that he won't be here next season.
He is quite good at left back - he has been poor centrally. But he is not better than what Williams was at the same level, so he can go on to have a good career, but I am quite convinced it wont be here