Uefa president hints at luxury tax and transfer changes to rein in rich clubs

[prtk0811]

Do it When Ronaldo Messi Retires .

 

[TwoSheds]

Italian clubs were hurt the most by FFP.

Is hurt the right word? They lost money hand over fist for years before FFP the likes of the two Milan clubs. I suspect they're a bit better off now.

 

[BlueViper]

A salary cap and wage budget would be interesting. In addition to helping with disparity between clubs, it could encourage the growth of youth players too as for every player you spend twice as much on you need to cut back elsewhere.

The only downside as a fan is that you probably won't see lineups like Messi/Suarez/Neymar. And of course realistically there will be a lot more competition for a title (that could be good or bad depending on how much you value competition vs watching your team win), with clubs having significantly smaller cycles in staying at the top.

 

[Peyroteo]

This never came up when Italy and Spain were the richest clubs and breaking spending records.
Clubs should be able to spend what they can. Then we should be able to bitch about it.

feck Uefa.

We're at a point where teams in the Championship have twice as much money to spend as the best teams in the Netherlands or in Portugal. It's ridiculous and it never got to this point before. Teams like Benfica and Ajax build their entire team with a tenth of the money Manchester United spent on Pogba. These aren't nobodies. Benfica puts 60 thousand fans in their stadium every two weeks, the problem is that there's no way to make foreigners watch the league. It's exponential. Premier League is better than the portuguese league so the viewers will watch the Premier League. They get money from the viewers and continue spending it and being better.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

We're at a point where teams in the Championship have twice has much money to spend as the best teams in the Netherlands or in Portugal. It's ridiculous and it never got to this point before. Teams like Benfica and Ajax build their entire team with a tenth of the money Manchester United spent on Pogba. These aren't nobodies. Benfica puts 60 thousand fans in their stadium every two weeks, the problem is that there's no way to make foreigners watch the league. It's exponential. Premier League is better than the portuguese league so the viewers will watch the Premier League. They get money from the viewers and continue spending it and being better.

It is not ridiculous when you consider that the Championship has the fourth highest total attendance in all of Europe.

 

[Peyroteo]

It is not ridiculous when you consider that the Championship has the fourth highest total attendance in all of Europe.

My team has a higher attendence than most of them. Is it our fault Paços de Ferreira and Naconal only put 1000 fans in their stadium?

 

[acnumber9]

My team has a higher attendence than most of them. Is it our fault Paços de Ferreira and Naconal only put 1000 fans in their stadium?

No less than it's the Championship clubs fault they have more money to spend.

 

[ti vu]

BS. So you're generating money through fair means & you can't use your money just like how the other clubs who pumped money from external source; just because it's not fair to some small clubs who UEFA & those sugar daddy clubs destroyed in the first place!

Italian clubs were hurt the most by FFP.

Not really. Their model is wrong. They didn't generate enough money even when they're at the top of power. FFP is just a kick at a fallen man; not the cause. Parma, Fiorentina... could have been some team, but ended up going down in early 2000s & before we ever heard anything about FFP

 

[Peyroteo]

No less than it's the Championship clubs fault they have more money to spend.

I'm not saying it's the english teams' fault. Just like portuguese clubs have bought a lot of players from South America, the english teams are buying from Portugal, Netherlands, etc. I'm just saying that something must be done about it otherwise in 20 years you'll have the 60 best teams in Europe be from 2 or 3 countries. To make matters even worse they're now guaranteeing an extra CL spot to one of the top leagues.

If it continues like this the Champions League will soon become worse than the european qualifiers. How are teams supposed to compete with opponents who have budgets 1000 times bigger?

The only thing keeping things sort of normal so far is the english teams' stupidity in the transfer market.

 

[alanjohnson]

The transfer fees paid by rich clubs for average players are enough to fund other leagues.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

How do you define rich club?

Big revenue = bigger turnover
Small revenue but big profit?

Do they set a nominal criteria? Based on what? Milan is a skint poor club nowdays compared to us, but compared to the iceland football club they're a damn rich club.

How do you define one as rich?

Money

 

[Billy Blaggs]

We're at a point where teams in the Championship have twice as much money to spend as the best teams in the Netherlands or in Portugal. It's ridiculous and it never got to this point before. Teams like Benfica and Ajax build their entire team with a tenth of the money Manchester United spent on Pogba. These aren't nobodies. Benfica puts 60 thousand fans in their stadium every two weeks, the problem is that there's no way to make foreigners watch the league. It's exponential. Premier League is better than the portuguese league so the viewers will watch the Premier League. They get money from the viewers and continue spending it and being better.

That's bullshit. You're looking at the numbers. The difference has been there for decades

 

[UDontMessWith24]

What's the point if there's no salary cap?

 

[alanjohnson]

I'm not saying it's the english teams' fault. Just like portuguese clubs have bought a lot of players from South America, the english teams are buying from Portugal, Netherlands, etc. I'm just saying that something must be done about it otherwise in 20 years you'll have the 60 best teams in Europe be from 2 or 3 countries. To make matters even worse they're now guaranteeing an extra CL spot to one of the top leagues.

If it continues like this the Champions League will soon become worse than the european qualifiers. How are teams supposed to compete with opponents who have budgets 1000 times bigger?

The only thing keeping things sort of normal so far is the english teams' stupidity in the transfer market.

in this situation it's a sellers market, transfer prices are hiked because of the competition between the rich clubs. Basically like London property prices.
The top 10-20 clubs also aren't as rich as people imagine ie United can't continue spending what they have spent in the past few years. We can buy 2 average players at the cost of £80million, on players who would have cost their club £10million.
The selling clubs can easily complete when they make those types of profits..and the talent they lose can easily be replaced, occasionally they'll do even better Athletico Madrid and Tottenham are good examples of this too ie sell Berbatov, carrick, keane, modric and Bale...look at them now?

 

[Billy Blaggs]

What's the point if there's no salary cap?

When has Europe ever had a wage limit or salary cap?

 

[Revan]

With some luck, they would go for it, and then we will finally be able to see European Super League which would be outside of UEFA's jurisdiction.

 

[Revan]

When has Europe ever had a wage limit or salary cap?

A salary cap would probably be illegal in European Union in the first place. There is no way that these laws will be introduced, it is stupid. I doubt that the big clubs will stand for it, and I doubt that Real and Barca are behind this. People are forgetting that they are the second and third richest clubs in Europe, this law would affect them as much as top English clubs. In fact, probably more considering the insane salary bill (higher than ours) so the luxury tax would make them so much weaker.

It is UEFA trying to make things right in a wrong way, 20 years after it has been too late.

 

[Look-a-Hill]

Maybe UEFA could address the issue of where transfer money goes first and foremost so that its actually kept in football for the selling club and isn't siphoned off by agents and greedy owners.

 

[Revan]

Maybe UEFA could address the issue of where transfer money goes first and foremost so that its actually kept in football for the selling club and isn't siphoned off by agents and greedy owners.

How could they do that? 'Greedy owners' are owners of the football club, how can UEFA make them not get money from their property? Even if it was legal (which isn't), what could UEFA do? Penalize the clubs who do so, putting them even in deeper shit. 'Hey club, your owner got 30m of your money. In order to help you we are getting an another 30m from your money. Now, please go bankrupt.'

Agents represent their players. Again how can UEFA stop them from doing that?

It would be the wet dream of a lot of lawyers if UEFA tries to do such a thing. There is no way that they can win on that.

The only way UEFA can improve things is to make fairer the money from UCL. For example, a part of money to be divided equally to all countries, and the remaining to be divided equally to all clubs who have qualified in UCL regardless of how far they go in the competition. Not sure how much that would improve things though.

 

[Nanook]

A salary cap would probably be illegal in European Union in the first place. There is no way that these laws will be introduced, it is stupid. I doubt that the big clubs will stand for it, and I doubt that Real and Barca are behind this. People are forgetting that they are the second and third richest clubs in Europe, this law would affect them as much as top English clubs. In fact, probably more considering the insane salary bill (higher than ours) so the luxury tax would make them so much weaker.

It is UEFA trying to make things right in a wrong way, 20 years after it has been too late.

Premier League, League 2 and La Liga all have salary caps right now.

 

[lewwoo]

Like other's have already mentioned it was fine when barca and real were breaking records and buying all the top players. Soon as an English club breaks the transfer record it suddenly needs looking at.

 

[Revan]

Premier League, League 2 and La Liga all have salary caps right now.

I think it is a bit more complicated than this. EPL clubs cannot increase the total wage more than 7m from last season, but that counts only for the money coming from TV deal. If they can demonstrate that the money comes from other deals (tickets, commercial revenue etc), then they can easily do that. It is the reason why United's wage has gone much higher than 7m in the last year. United's commercial revenue has gone up for around 40% on the last year, and if United decides, they can put all these money on players' salaries and be within the rules.

So, it is more an instruction on what clubs can do with the money coming from EPL TV deal, rather than a salary cap.

I have no idea how things are in the other 2 leagues you mentioned.

Like other's have already mentioned it was fine when barca and real were breaking records and buying all the top players. Soon as an English club breaks the transfer record it suddenly needs looking at.

I doubt that is the case. Madrid/Barca are the second/third richest clubs in the world and their finances dwarf those of any EPL club bar United. In addition, their wage is higher than ours so the salary cap would affect them more than us. It isn't a conspiracy to make Barca/Madrid continue being on top. In addition, for all the money, EPL clubs lack success in Europe so I doubt that Real/Barca are being scared at us and then pushing UEFA to make rules that would affect them quite a lot too.

It is UEFA trying to raise the competition (which is a nice thing). But like FFP, it is very difficult to implement and the big clubs won't stand for this. Why should United, Bayern, Madrid etc pay money that they earned to clubs in Hungary or Slovakia? From a capitalist point of view it makes no sense at all, and it is actually penalizing clubs who do well financial-wise. It will have all sorts of legal problems to implement, there will always be backdoors to 'cook the books' (see City/PSG for FFP), and if it affects too much the big clubs, then they might finally decide to leave UEFA and make an NBA of football (which I would love to see). If that happens, then football as we know it is dead and UEFA (and by extension FIFA) would soon be an irrelevant organization with no power and no point.

 

[Nanook]

I think it is a bit more complicated than this. EPL clubs cannot increase the total wage more than 7m from last season, but that counts only for the money coming from TV deal. If they can demonstrate that the money comes from other deals (tickets, commercial revenue etc), then they can easily do that. It is the reason why United's wage has gone much higher than 7m in the last year. United's commercial revenue has gone up for around 40% on the last year, and if United decides, they can put all these money on players' salaries and be within the rules.

So, it is more an instruction on what clubs can do with the money coming from EPL TV deal, rather than a salary cap.

I have no idea how things are in the other 2 leagues you mentioned.

League 2 clubs are allowed to spend at most something like 60% of their revenue on wages and each La Liga club has a maximum amount they can spend on wages too.

 

[ThomasEmil]

Such a hypocritical thing to state having just made the strongest leagues stronger in the biggest tournament, and made it far more unlikely for smaller clubs to get a touch on the gold mine that is the CL

 

[RedDevil@84]

Hey you are not allowed to be super rich. So pay extra money to us as we know the right way to spend the money.

 

[Ramshock]

What they should do is make it that 8 of the first team squad must be born in the clubs country and also at least 5 homegrown players from the academy leaving clubs with the capacity to have 12 foreign players in the squad of 25 should they wish.

This will force clubs to develop their own players better and spread the wealth of top international players around making leagues and european football more competitive.

It might be purist pie in the sky stuff but it would put some soul back in football and also benefit the national teams in the long run.

 

[Revan]

What they should do is make it that 8 of the first team squad must be born in the clubs country and also at least 5 homegrown players from the academy leaving clubs with the capacity to have 12 foreign players in the squad of 25 should they wish.

Not legal under EU laws. And if such a rule gets introduced in England, within 5 years English clubs will be below France/Italy (to not say Portugal) and so the richest league in the world won't be the richest anymore. People in China or US won't like to watch overpayed donkies.

This will force clubs to develop their own players better and spread the wealth of top international players around making leagues and european football more competitive.

Or just poach the best players from that country. Which in turn makes the league weaker, and the prices of average players inflate.

It might be purist pie in the sky stuff but it would put some soul back in football and also benefit the national teams in the long run.

Football hasn't ever been better in quality than now, the number of football players in Europe hasn't ever been higher, and the national teams (especially the small ones) are better than ever. When is the last time that the equivalent of Wales reached the semis of a Euro, or the likes of Iceland reached the quarters?

Much ado about nothing, football is better than ever and no need to go back because of nostalgia. It wasn't better when you were young, it is just that because you were young you remember it as being better.

 

[Lastwolf]

What they should do is make it that 8 of the first team squad must be born in the clubs country and also at least 5 homegrown players from the academy leaving clubs with the capacity to have 12 foreign players in the squad of 25 should they wish.

This will force clubs to develop their own players better and spread the wealth of top international players around making leagues and european football more competitive.

It might be purist pie in the sky stuff but it would put some soul back in football and also benefit the national teams in the long run.

Unless it's applied globally can't see it happening, they already had this rule to some extent and City just went with a smaller squad.

 

[Pink Moon]

The UEFA has the same problem as the FIFA. There are too many "little" countries to please who have as many votes in it like the big nations.

And rightly so.

 

[Ramshock]

Not legal under EU laws.


Or just poach the best players from that country. Which in turn makes the league weaker, and the prices of average players inflate.

Football hasn't ever been better in quality than now, the number of football players in Europe hasn't ever been higher, and the national teams (especially the small ones) are better than ever. When is the last time that the equivalent of Wales reached the semis of a Euro, or the likes of Iceland reached the quarters?

Much ado about nothing, football is better than ever and no need to go back because of nostalgia. It wasn't better when you were young, it is just that because you were young you remember it as being better.

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Not legal under EU laws. And if such a rule gets introduced in England, within 5 years English clubs will be below France/Italy (to not say Portugal) and so the richest league in the world won't be the richest anymore. People in China or US won't like to watch overpayed donkies.


Or just poach the best players from that country. Which in turn makes the league weaker, and the prices of average players inflate.

Football hasn't ever been better in quality than now, the number of football players in Europe hasn't ever been higher, and the national teams (especially the small ones) are better than ever. When is the last time that the equivalent of Wales reached the semis of a Euro, or the likes of Iceland reached the quarters?

Much ado about nothing, football is better than ever and no need to go back because of nostalgia. It wasn't better when you were young, it is just that because you were young you remember it as being better.

I said it was pie in the sky. However citing Wales and Iceland in international football isnt wise since the tournament was expanded to let more teams qualify. Ireland reached the quarters in 1990 so these things can happen. For the most part international football and especially in England has been on the downward path for decades now. You only have to look at how unpopular international breaks are with fans.

 

[BAMSOLA]

Clubs for me should have an absolute upper limit on what can be spent per season on transfers. I can't say what that figure should be but I guarantee if you set it around £50 mil and give it two-three transfer windows you would soon see the cost of players even the biggest drop to a more acceptable figure.

Either that or you cap the amount of players a club can sign in one window(even when loaning them out immediately or leaving the player at the club for a season or two) and see how that works, three to four would be an acceptable limit.

 

[Revan]

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I said it was pie in the sky. However citing Wales and Iceland in international football isnt wise since the tournament was expanded to let more teams qualify. Ireland reached the quarters in 1990 so these things can happen. For the most part international football and especially in England has been on the downward path for decades now. You only have to look at how unpopular international breaks are with fans.

Could that be because the club's football is so much better now (because of the expanse and the internationalization of football where European top teams have the best players in the world)? Making the club's football worse in order to achieve parity doesn't look a very good idea to me.

Clubs for me should have an absolute upper limit on what can be spent per season on transfers. I can't say what that figure should be but I guarantee if you set it around £50 mil and give it two-three transfer windows you would soon see the cost of players even the biggest drop to a more acceptable figure.

Either that or you cap the amount of players a club can sign in one window(even when loaning them out immediately or leaving the player at the club for a season or two) and see how that works, three to four would be an acceptable limit.

Why reducing the transfers is a good idea in the first place? Money is already there, it either needs to go in transfers and wages or in the pockets of the owners.

In fact, if you reduce the transfers (without reducing the wages), then still the top clubs would get the best players by offering them astronomical wages. If you reduce both, then the owners get richer with footballers getting poorer. How does that contributes to football?

I have no idea why people want to fix something that isn't broken, by trying to break it. Football is an entertainment in the first place, and the quality of entertainment hasn't ever been higher. We have multiple very strong clubs, we can watch whatever game we want, the top players get more payed than ever, clubs get more money than ever. It is a win-win for everyone.

 

[JPRouve]

It wouldn't is my point. (Although it could if Europe went that route)
My argument is the double standards. Madrid not to long ago made three world record transfers and not a thing was said about it. Barcelona made another crazy transfer with all kinds of tax issues
Before that Italy was taking the piss with what they were spending.

As soon as the premier league could out spend them. FFP. Came into fruition.

But that's the problem, don't start a everyone is against UK debate because it isn't the problem. The problem is that unlike 10-15 years ago, the biggest clubs have started to accumulate players because they could, it's killing the game and the competitivity of plenty of clubs/leagues. In fact the UK aren't even in the debate because they are not the target.

The target are Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern and Juventus.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

But that's the problem, don't start a everyone is against UK debate because it isn't the problem. The problem is that unlike 10-15 years ago, the biggest clubs have started to accumulate players because they could, it's killing the game and the competitivity of plenty of clubs/leagues. In fact the UK aren't even in the debate because they are not the target.

The target are Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern and Juventus.

I'm not starting an everyone is against the UK. I am saying Italy and Spain get preferential treatment.

 

[GBBQ]

Its impossible to stop the likes of Barcelona, Bayern Munich and United being hugely supported globally (resulting in huge revenue) or teams like City and Chelsea having rich benefactors but perhaps Uefa should look at what has made the Premier league the most competitive its been since its inception; the tv revenue being shared equally. It means that no smaller club is forced to sell a player or have to accept a lowball offer because they need the money for operating reasons.

Caps and limits won't work and may have a detrimental effect on smaller clubs who don't have strength in depth in their squad.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm not starting an everyone is against the UK. I am saying Italy and Spain get preferential treatment.

How? The FFP was introduced because clubs like Malaga and other spanish teams weren't able to pay their players, the current problem is that the biggest clubs buy everything and don't play them mainly Barcelona and Real Madrid.

 

[x42bn6]

Tax squad sizes. Say you get 35 over-18 players "tax-free" (roughly corresponding to, say, 23 first-teamers, a partial reserves squad and a handful of loanees), but anything above that amount requires a monthly "tax" to be paid.

Clubs that loan excessive numbers of players are effectively denying talent for other clubs and are rent-seeking - reaping the profits for minimal value created.

This would reduce hoarding. Hoarding blocks players from having a stable, long-term development path (as opposed to many short-term loans) and blocks the clubs they do end up playing for from reaping the rewards of their development (the parent club benefits).

This in effect increases the pool of available players because clubs will be more likely to sell overage players rather than loan them, which will reduce their prices and also help the players find a club that has their long-term development in mind (which in turn helps the national teams).

I'd also go one further and not count registrations, but count any players that the club has a (possibly-partial) controlling interest in. So basically to block a loophole where a player is sold with a cheap buyback clause. Sell-on clauses and bonus clauses (like Golden Ball awards/international cap bonuses) don't count because there is no control - the initial club cannot control where the player goes next, nor influence where the player's club sells him next.

There needs to be league-specific treatment, though. Italy, for example, has 12 substitutes in Serie A, no reserves league and their youth league is an Under-20s league; on the other hand, England has 7 substitutes, a reserves league and its youth league is effectively under-18s. This means the opportunities for players are different in each country. So that tax-free amount may vary between countries. However, only FIFA can really enforce the registrations because it could be hard to police the registration issue for a transfer between, say, England and Holland.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

In an ideal world, tax it, even out the playing field and plough the cash back into grass roots facilities

 

[cyberman]

In an ideal world, tax it, even out the playing field and plough the cash back into grass roots facilities

English football has done that though.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Something does need to be done about this. However any intention UEFA has is clouded with corruption, do they really have good intentions for the smaller clubs? Absolutely not. They are simply lining their own pockets once again.

Arguably the financial wealth disparity is not such a problem in the Premier League, it is the other leagues that need sorting but this has nothing to do with UEFA but each countries federation. Why should English clubs suffer a tax because Real and Barcelona won't share the TV money in their own country?