Ugarte appears to be out the door this summer

Raoul

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Shouldn't come as a surprise given his lack of minutes under both Ruben and Carras. He would be a logical sale to raise funds for one or two new CMs this summer.

 
It was always a bit worrying that plenty of posters who watched him said that we'd soon need to upgrade him.
£50m was a mad fee for such a player.
 
Brilliant player. Unfortunately, must sell to raise funds. Stop lowering our player prices
 
Bit worried at the scale of the overhaul were going to need at cm. We could already do with another option right now with just PL games.

Now add extra European matches (plus hopefully deeper runs in the cups), then take away Casemiro and Ugarte and we look to be in a bit of trouble.
 
Globule said:
Bit worried at the scale of the overhaul were going to need at cm. We could already do with another option right now with just PL games.

Now add extra European matches (plus hopefully deeper runs in the cups), then take away Casemiro and Ugarte and we look to be in a bit of trouble.
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Given that we're likely losing both Casemiro and Ugarte in the same summer, we're going to need a combination of plug and play experience to replace Casemiro, and ideally a younger player with a lot of upside potential to replace Ugarte.
 
Globule said:
Bit worried at the scale of the overhaul were going to need at cm. We could already do with another option right now with just PL games.

Now add extra European matches (plus hopefully deeper runs in the cups), then take away Casemiro and Ugarte and we look to be in a bit of trouble.
Click to expand...

Is an area of concern. If Ugarte goes on top of casmiro would say we need 3 centre mids this summer.

Its been a shocking area of the team for so long as well. I cannot remember the last time we had a genuinely world class midfield unit. Almost all the players we have signed in the position for at least a decade have been awful or have been at the wrong point of their careers - like Matic and Casemiro
 
That would all but confirm us signing minimum 2 CMs, which is great.

... but is that enough? Bruno, Mount and Martinez can step in during an injury crisis, but we are still quite vulnerable.
 
Jezpeza said:
Is an area of concern. If Ugarte goes on top of casmiro would say we need 3 centre mids this summer.

Its been a shocking area of the team for so long as well. I cannot remember the last time we had a genuinely world class midfield unit. Almost all the players we have signed in the position for at least a decade have been awful or have been at the wrong point of their careers - like Matic and Casemiro
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There's also a possibility that Bruno's release clause gets activated and he gets poached by one of the European giants.

I imagine we'll see Wharton and Baleba come through the doors this summer plus one other cheaper option.
 
Globule said:
Bit worried at the scale of the overhaul were going to need at cm. We could already do with another option right now with just PL games.

Now add extra European matches (plus hopefully deeper runs in the cups), then take away Casemiro and Ugarte and we look to be in a bit of trouble.
Click to expand...

I think the plan has always been to sign a minimum of two midfield players this summer so Ugarte leaving would add to that although his lack of minutes does lend itself to the idea that his role could be shared between the likes of Collyer and the Fletcher twins as we look for opportunities to give minutes to our own youth.
 
Seems likely that we'll buy 3 midfielders this summer to replace Casemiro and Ugarte.
 
sprezza said:
There's also a possibility that Bruno's release clause gets activated and he gets poached by one of the European giants.

I imagine we'll see Wharton and Baleba come through the doors this summer plus one other cheaper option.
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Can we not give him a new contract minus the release clause? That would be such a spanner in the works to lose him.

Anderson at Forest will be an interesting situation if they go down as well
 
He should be sold, if possible. And then, we would need 3 midfielders in the summer - one to replace Casemiro, one to replace Ugarte plus one we currently lack in the squad anyways. These 3 + Mainoo should be enough for defensive/central midfield rotation. Bruno and Mount(unsellable on high wages) remain as attacking midfielders.
 
Jezpeza said:
Can we not give him a new contract minus the release clause? That would be such a spanner in the works to lose him.

Anderson at Forest will be an interesting situation if they go down as well
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I think we can if we're comfortable giving him another wage increase. Bruno probably wants to see that we have a chance of winning something next season, and if another club comes in for him which is further ahead in their project (I'm thinking Bayern?) then I wonder if he may feel ready to try something new. Hopefully not.
 
What are the chances we manage to sell him permanently?

Would be great if we could get a fee for him, what a piece of business it’d be if we could go 1:1 Ugarte out and Fernandes in should West Ham go down.

Oh, to dream..
 
sprezza said:
I think we can if we're comfortable giving him another wage increase. Bruno probably wants to see that we have a chance of winning something next season, and if another club comes in for him which is further ahead in their project (I'm thinking Bayern?) then I wonder if he may feel ready to try something new. Hopefully not.
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Just read its 57 million as well. Thats not great. Wirtz was regarded as the next big thing as a 10 and hes been woeful at Liverpool at nearly double that
 
I feel about Ugarte the way I felt about Schneiderlin was hoping he’d add a bit of steel to the midfield but he’s ended up just being meh.
 
He should be worth a decent amount. The Premier League being too tough for him won't stop teams from other leagues thinking he could be very good for them.
 
Mental that PSG more or less recouped their investment with him. They must have been doing jigs of delight in their boardroom when our offer came in.

We could have signed Berge for half of our outlay, a player who is proven in the Prem and would have been more than decent back up/replacement for Casemiro.

We just haven´t been able to rely on Ugarte and it´s cost us points.
 
Thank feck he's shite. Genuinely think he's midtable, I don't think hes better than the midfielders playing for clubs 5-8th.
 
He shouldn't be in the starting eleven but he is at least fairly reliable when it comes to covering ground and adding a bit of steele. I mean it is clear we need improvements in midfield but when we expect to play more games we have to keep an eye on quantity as well. But if we can recoup some of the fee it would be good.
 
Would be good to get a couple of quid for him, open a slot for someone incoming. Not an awful player for most leagues, but the required level in the Prem is really high and he's fallen short. Would do a decent job in Serie A.
 
DOTA said:
He should be worth a decent amount. The Premier League being too tough for him won't stop teams from other leagues thinking he could be very good for them.
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The concern would be that in the last 3 seasons he has played less and less football whilst essentially failing at two different clubs in two different leagues. I think our best bet for a decent fee might be Turkey where a bit of an arms race has broken out between the top clubs over the past couple of seasons but where a player like Torreira actually looks competent.
 
Ugarte should be playing next to a deep lying playmaker.

He needs to be Gattuso whilst Pirlo dictates play from deep. Hargreaves & Carrick with Carrick being the player that sits deep and Hargreaves playing as the destroyer.

I personally think he is good at what he is can do which is winning the ball higher up the pitch than sitting deeper in front of our defence.

He looks better next to Casemiro because Casemiro takes the back seat. When Ugarte plays next to Mainoo or Bruno then the midfield has gaps because Ugarte tries to win the ball higher up the pitch and leaves holes in behind because neither Bruno or Mainoo have the ability to play as the deepest midfielder.

This is why we lose goals when Ugarte comes on for Casemiro because Ugarte doesn't play like Casemiro and no one in the whole squad can sit deep.

If we sign a deep lying playmaker then Ugarte may be more useful than people can imagine.

Ugarte next to someone like Wharton or stiller.

I kind of like having specialists in the squad though - a player used for a certain tactic or time of the match - but financially maybe we just need players a bit more well rounded.
 
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He can do well in Spain or Italy, Atletico Madrid might suit him.

I am ok if we get atleast 20M
 
I am not saying here Ugarte is upto the standards required for Prem football as he is clearly a limited player, but I do find it strange that Casemiro gets a lot of leeway and excuses made for him because of the Ten Hag donut formation and Amorim's two man midfield, which would see us outnumbered in the vast majority of games.

Those same excuses are not made for Ugarte, who if I remember correctly, played little to no football under Ten Hag and was asked to play periodically in Amorims flawed system, while still adapting to the Prem.

Now that doesn't excuse some of the brain dead plays, but it would be interesting to see if he could be of more use in a more compact 4231 / 442 and with good coaching. Especially as we know we will need more cover next season and if they only prospect of a sale may be to give him away for a fraction of what we paid, or loan him out.
 
Jezpeza said:
Is an area of concern. If Ugarte goes on top of casmiro would say we need 3 centre mids this summer.

Its been a shocking area of the team for so long as well. I cannot remember the last time we had a genuinely world class midfield unit. Almost all the players we have signed in the position for at least a decade have been awful or have been at the wrong point of their careers - like Matic and Casemiro
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Not a concern re replacing Ugarte, since there are numerous guys going for 30m who'd do a better-job as squad midfielders. He obviously has some strengths in duels but also actively weakens us in pretty much every other aspect when he comes on, to the point where there are correlations between his sub appearances and goals conceded that are particularly comic given that he's supposed to stiffen things up
 
I think he's actually a good player. He hasn't got a proper run in ages and that's fine if Carrick doesn't rate him. He hasn't shown anything off the bench, quite the opposite for the most part to be honest but if we were judging Mainoo on his sporadic sub minutes he'd be as close to out the door as Ugarte seems to be.

I think he's similar to Fred. He's a busy aggressive player but we don't play to his strengths and he doesn't offer the composure on the ball we seem to need from both of our midfielders. What I will say. Why don't we act like PSG? We prbably could have a big fee for Sancho at the end of his first season. Leaving Neves to sign Ugarte was such a big miss too. He was surely gettable, all action and much better on the ball, even to the most casual observer
 
Ugarte is only 24? I didn’t think he was old or anything but that’s sort of spun me
 
Mendes client isn't he? It would be no surprise if we signed Ugarte as a favour to him for sorting the Yoro deal, we'll probably get a decent deal selling this summer in return for signing someone else with his agency.
 
Globule said:
Bit worried at the scale of the overhaul were going to need at cm. We could already do with another option right now with just PL games.

Now add extra European matches (plus hopefully deeper runs in the cups), then take away Casemiro and Ugarte and we look to be in a bit of trouble.
Click to expand...

If you consider we need two players per position, we really need 3 midfielders this summer for the two deep lying midfield roles. We'll be left with just Mainoo there after Casemiro and Ugarte leave.

It is a concern needing so many signings as any player we sign seems to cost 70, 80m - and the fees for Rice/Caicedo mean we'll be asked for 100m for PL targets like Anderson.


Everyone seems to love our new recruitment team, but the signings of Zirkzee and Ugarte still leaves question marks over their judgement.
 
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