UK Policing

SilentWitness

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Braverman will probably come out and say we need to stop doing these reports and get on with real policing or something shite as usual.
 

Ludens the Red

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Ahhh I just couldn’t resist :lol:
Twitter makes me laugh. From a ten second clip with no volume and no actual view of this person being restrained on the floor. We’ve got the following..
- racist assault by security on black 15 year old
- Sussex police kidnap on black 15 year old
- you’re not allowed to handcuff children
- Superdrug racism
- Superdrug boycott

Never disappoint Twitter.

I also find it truly astonishing in this day and age that people become so outraged about teenagers being restrained/detained. We live in a country where 15-17 year olds walk around with knives killing fellow teenagers. 15-17 year old drug dealers dealing drugs to teenagers. 15-17 year old boys selling teenage girls into sex trafficking rings. 15-17 year olds committing knife point robberies. Record one being restrained/detained put it on Twitter and people act like it’s the worse thing they’ve ever seen.
 

Pexbo

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Ahhh I just couldn’t resist :lol:
Twitter makes me laugh. From a ten second clip with no volume and no actual view of this person being restrained on the floor. We’ve got the following..
- racist assault by security on black 15 year old
- Sussex police kidnap on black 15 year old
- you’re not allowed to handcuff children
- Superdrug racism
- Superdrug boycott

Never disappoint Twitter.

I also find it truly astonishing in this day and age that people become so outraged about teenagers being restrained/detained. We live in a country where 15-17 year olds walk around with knives killing fellow teenagers. 15-17 year old drug dealers dealing drugs to teenagers. 15-17 year old boys selling teenage girls into sex trafficking rings. 15-17 year olds committing knife point robberies. Record one being restrained/detained put it on Twitter and people act like it’s the worse thing they’ve ever seen.
The people detaining him in the video are civilians.
They should not be using handcuffs.
They are not trained to use handcuffs.
It is not legal for them to detain using handcuffs.
The boy detained is a child.
The boy the police decided to arrest, despite upon arrival witnessing a different crime, is a child.
His mother is his legal guardian.
His mother had no idea where he was when he was in custody and the police would not tell her.
His mother or father is the only appropriate adult to be with him.

You’re willing to take what the police say at face value, others are not. They’ve proven time and time again they cannot be trusted.

Let’s wait and see what the real story is when all the facts have come out.
 

Ludens the Red

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The people detaining him in the video are civilians.
They should not be using handcuffs.
They are not trained to use handcuffs.
It is not legal for them to detain using handcuffs.
The boy detained is a child.
The boy the police decided to arrest, despite upon arrival witnessing a different crime, is a child.
His mother is his legal guardian.
His mother had no idea where he was when he was in custody and the police would not tell her.
His mother or father is the only appropriate adult to be with him.

You’re willing to take what the police say at face value, others are not. They’ve proven time and time again they cannot be trusted.

Let’s wait and see what the real story is when all the facts have come out.
No offence but you literally have no idea what you're talking about.

That's clearly security with some form of badges. There is no law in the UK that says you can't use handcuffs or that you need to be trained to use handcuffs, as in what the hell are you talking about? You would just need to justify using them. It should be patently obvious that a lot of security in shops, clubs, bars, hospitals etc sometimes carry handcuffs due to the potential risky people they deal with and they can use them if necessary.

It is definitely legal and you are definitely allowed to detain someone suspected of committing a indictable offence if you're not a police officer.

The boy detained is a child? And? There is no law against arresting or restraining a 15 year old boy. As said previously, 15 year old boys commit serious crimes.

"The boy the police decided to arrest, despite upon arrival witnessing a different crime, is a child."
What?

You’re willing to take what the police say at face value, others are not.. I'm not willing to take what a random woman says on twitter at face value.
And anyway actually you are..... That report that came out was on the back of the experiences of police officers.....Every single complaint of racism, misogyny, sexism, was as a result of a police officers testimony.

"His mother or father is the only appropriate adult to be with him."
Honestly, where are you getting this stuff from and presenting it as facts? An appropriate adult most certainly does not have to be a mother and father, in fact there are occasions where a mother or father would not even be allowed to act as an appropriate adult if deemed inappropriate (criminal history/drunk etc).

His mother had no idea where he was when he was in custody and the police would not tell her.

You’re willing to take what the police say at face value, others are not. They’ve proven time and time again they cannot be trusted.

Let’s wait and see what the real story is when all the facts have come out.


Right, so until the full story comes out, we must believe that this mothers 15 year old son was looking for shampoo in a shop, was followed by a Superdrug staff member and security who were all racists and decided to attack this boy for no reason. Placing him in handcuffs. They've then called the police, who have come along, covered up this story and kidnapped the 15 year old and refused to tell his mum where they're holding him? And then gone on twitter and lied about an altercation between a group of kids in the shop where one of them has assaulted staff, christ they must be bored in the Sussex police force.
 
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K Stand Knut

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The people detaining him in the video are civilians.
They should not be using handcuffs.
They are not trained to use handcuffs.
It is not legal for them to detain using handcuffs.
The boy detained is a child.
The boy the police decided to arrest, despite upon arrival witnessing a different crime, is a child.
His mother is his legal guardian.
His mother had no idea where he was when he was in custody and the police would not tell her.
His mother or father is the only appropriate adult to be with him.


You’re willing to take what the police say at face value, others are not. They’ve proven time and time again they cannot be trusted.

Let’s wait and see what the real story is when all the facts have come out.
I don’t think it is illegal.

Morally questionable, for sure, but not illegal bearing in mind you can use reasonable force.

Id happily agree that the use of force may be too much in this instance but let’s be honest, a video with no sound and for only the short duration that it is being filmed is hardly enough to say that it wasn’t warranted.

Not sure how’d you know all this about his mother exactly but it is not ONLY parents who can be appropriate adults. There are loads of reasons why they wouldn’t or even couldn’t be an AA
 

K Stand Knut

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No offence but you literally have no idea what you're talking about.

That's clearly security with some form of badges. There is no law in the UK that says you can't use handcuffs or that you need to be trained to use handcuffs, as in what the hell are you talking about? You would just need to justify using them. It should be patently obvious that a lot of security in shops, clubs, bars, hospitals etc sometimes carry handcuffs due to the potential risky people they deal with and they can use them if necessary.

It is definitely legal and you are definitely allowed to detain someone suspected of committing a indictable offence if you're not a police officer.

The boy detained is a child? And? There is no law against arresting or restraining a 15 year old boy. As said previously, 15 year old boys commit serious crimes.

"The boy the police decided to arrest, despite upon arrival witnessing a different crime, is a child."
What?

You're not willing to take what police say at face value, that's fine. I'm not willing to take what a random woman says on twitter at face value.

"His mother or father is the only appropriate adult to be with him."
Honestly, where are you getting this stuff from and presenting it as facts? An appropriate adult most certainly does not have to be a mother and father, in fact there are occasions where a mother or father would not even be allowed to act as an appropriate adult if deemed inappropriate (criminal history/drunk etc).

His mother had no idea where he was when he was in custody and the police would not tell her.

You’re willing to take what the police say at face value, others are not. They’ve proven time and time again they cannot be trusted.

Let’s wait and see what the real story is when all the facts have come out.


Right, so until the full story comes out, we must believe that this mothers 15 year old son was looking for shampoo in a shop, was followed by a Superdrug staff member and security who were all racists and decided to attack this boy for no reason. Placing him in handcuffs. They've then called the police, who have come along, covered up this story and kidnapped the 15 year old and refused to tell his mum where they're holding him? And then gone on twitter and lied about an altercation between a group of kids in the shop where one of them has assaulted staff, okay then.
Well said, bro!

Or something!
 

SalfordRed18

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I'd like to know who these underage teenage boys selling teenage girls for sex are, because that's news to me. Or all these sia security guards walking round with handcuffs, as someone who's worked in hospitality for over a decade I've never seen that anywhere.

Who a part of this case is even suggesting Sussex police have kidnapped the boy?

Just some terrible shouts imo, the day after a very damning report for a sister police force.
 

Ludens the Red

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I'd like to know who these underage teenage boys selling teenage girls for sex are, because that's news to me. Or all these sia security guards walking round with handcuffs, as someone who's worked in hospitality for over a decade I've never seen that anywhere.

Who a part of this case is even suggesting Sussex police have kidnapped the boy?

Just some terrible shouts imo, the day after a very damning report for a sister police force.
CSE is news to you? really… Google it. Have a look at child gangs, county lines etc if you want to paint the full picture.

I’ve worked in policing for six years, bars for another four. I can assure you some members of security staff carry handcuffs. I have seen countless people in cuffs in particularly aggy clubs and bars. Also seen them used in hospitals.

The video states her child did nothing and was taken by police and not told where he was held. By definition that would be kidnap.

Terrible shouts? Hmm not really. Just you know stuff that goes on, that tbh I thought most people knew about.
 
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SalfordRed18

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CSE is news to you? really… Google it. Have a look at child gangs, county lines etc if you want to paint the full picture.

I’ve worked in policing for six years, bars for another four. I can assure you some members of security staff carry handcuffs. I have seen countless people in cuffs in particularly aggy clubs and bars. Also seen them used in hospitals.

The video states her child did nothing and was taken by police and not told where he was held. By definition that would be kidnap.

Terrible shouts? Hmm not really. Just you know stuff that goes on, that tbh I thought most people knew about.
I'm not saying sexual exploitation of children's doesn't exist, I'm saying show me where a 15 year old boy has trafficked a fellow 15 year girl, or else you're chatting out your arse to make a point.

In what capacity did you work in bars? I find it very hard to believe youve seen "countless" people in handcuffs (that have been provided by security and not police). You're not calling the police everytime you find drugs on a customer so wtf was going on in all these bars you worked in for 4 years?

It's not kidnap at all. It's negligence. They've not "stolen" a child for ransom or for some other reason. Clearly they've been unprofessional and havent done their due diligence or filled out correct details and they can't track down exactly where he is. In what world is that kidnap? Or again are you trying to make some bullshit point?
 

Ludens the Red

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I'm not saying sexual exploitation of children's doesn't exist, I'm saying show me where a 15 year old boy has trafficked a fellow 15 year girl, or else you're chatting out your arse to make a point.

In what capacity did you work in bars? I find it very hard to believe youve seen "countless" people in handcuffs (that have been provided by security and not police). You're not calling the police everytime you find drugs on a customer so wtf was going on in all these bars you worked in for 4 years?

It's not kidnap at all. It's negligence. They've not "stolen" a child for ransom or for some other reason. Clearly they've been unprofessional and havent done their due diligence or filled out correct details and they can't track down exactly where he is. In what world is that kidnap? Or again are you trying to make some bullshit point?
The only person talking bullshit is you to be frank. Implying that I'm making stuff up that exists in plain sight. You have the internet, youtube, you can see it for yourself. Everything I'm talking about is there... But just to play along.

I mean I cant actually believe I'm about to explain a teenage boys involvement in how CSE/child gangs works to an adult...especially to one who obviously believes he's well in tuned.

So you have these college/high school boys right who unfortunately have come to the decision to live a materialistic/gangster lifestyle, whether that be through bad influence, broken homes, poverty etc. They start hanging around older gang members who give them things. In return the boys sell their drugs for them and get them young teenage girls. These boys wear designer clothing, have phones, cash etc which in turn gets the attention of teenage females. The teenage boys then introduce the young girls to the older guys who in turn introduce them to a life of drugs and alcohol. This eventually leads to the girl being used by not just the young gang member but by the elders for CSE...The young boys would receive payment. Again though man there's just loads of programmes, documentaries on this stuff.

I worked in bars, and a few rough ones. They would have security guards with accessible handcuffs in a few of them. I worked as a street cop and would turn up to clubs where people were literally in handcuffs being detained by bouncers for either selling drugs, carrying knives or sexually assaulting women. I would then take these handcuffs off them and return to them to security and then arrest them. I am not making this stuff up, it happened, it happens.

Christ on a bike, I was obviously exaggerating to make a point with the kidnap stuff. The point being the story was so ridiculous that it was simply not believable. Like ffs I know, I get it, police are fecking up majorly at the minute but the story presented with the video is obviously not going to be what actually happened.
 

SalfordRed18

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The only person talking bullshit is you to be frank. Implying that I'm making stuff up that exists in plain sight. You have the internet, youtube, you can see it for yourself. Everything I'm talking about is there... But just to play along.

I mean I cant actually believe I'm about to explain a teenage boys involvement in how CSE/child gangs works to an adult...especially to one who obviously believes he's well in tuned.

So you have these college/high school boys right who unfortunately have come to the decision to live a materialistic/gangster lifestyle, whether that be through bad influence, broken homes, poverty etc. They start hanging around older gang members who give them things. In return the boys sell their drugs for them and get them young teenage girls. These boys wear designer clothing, have phones, cash etc which in turn gets the attention of teenage females. The teenage boys then introduce the young girls to the older guys who in turn introduce them to a life of drugs and alcohol. This eventually leads to the girl being used by not just the young gang member but by the elders for CSE...The young boys would receive payment. Again though man there's just loads of programmes, documentaries on this stuff.

I worked in bars, and a few rough ones. They would have security guards with accessible handcuffs in a few of them. I worked as a street cop and would turn up to clubs where people were literally in handcuffs being detained by bouncers for either selling drugs, carrying knives or sexually assaulting women. I would then take these handcuffs off them and return to them to security and then arrest them. I am not making this stuff up, it happened, it happens.

Christ on a bike, I was obviously exaggerating to make a point with the kidnap stuff. The point being the story was so ridiculous that it was simply not believable. Like ffs I know, I get it, police are fecking up majorly at the minute but the story presented with the video is obviously not going to be what actually happened.
Didn't ask what could happen, I asked for a point blank, clear example of an underage teenage boy selling an underage teenage girl. What you described isn't even that.

Yeah just because you say it happened, doesnt mean it happened. Security guards generally don't walk around with handcuffs, I don't know where you've got this from but this isn't a common occurrence in the UK. You're speaking as if it's the norm when it really isn't and if you were constantly going to venues where it was constantly needed, those venues would have been shut down and the DPS have their licence revoked.

So it's not kidnap at all, no one claimed it was kidnap except for you and you admit you're exaggerating for story sake? Think thats the end of this chat, because I CBA to read genuine bollocks anymore. Have an opinion sure, but if you're going to state it so nonchalantly, atleast be able to back it up with actual facts and not hypotheticals and hyperbole.
 

SalfordRed18

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Wouldn't that be a criminal offence?
It's not an offence but if you were to use handcuffs youd need good reason otherwise you could face a charge if I'm not mistaken.

In terms of SIA accredited security, they don't encourage or discourage security from using handcuffs officially. But no bouncer is going to use cuffs willy nilly, it's not a thing. They don't carry them around on shift. You're opening yourself up to a world of issues with that. It's an utterly bizarre thing to lie about but here we are.
 

Ludens the Red

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It's not an offence but if you were to use handcuffs youd need good reason otherwise you could face a charge if I'm not mistaken.

In terms of SIA accredited security, they don't encourage or discourage security from using handcuffs officially. But no bouncer is going to use cuffs willy nilly, it's not a thing. They don't carry them around on shift. You're opening yourself up to a world of issues with that. It's an utterly bizarre thing to lie about but here we are.
Reporting my previous post, claimin you’re not going to discuss it any longer and yet here you are back again posting absolute bullshit. Bollocks post after bollocks post.
You keep implying I said they all carry it and it’s the norm. Here is what I actually said.

They would have security guards with accessible handcuffs in a few of them
You would just need to justify using them. It should be patently obvious that a lot of security in shops, clubs, bars, hospitals etc sometimes carry handcuffs due to the potential risky people they deal with and they can use them if necessary.
You really really need to actually read posts and take in what people say before you choose to plant your flag. It’s just really bad and lazy posting. When did I say that they carry them every shift?

I have explained already the situations where I’ve come across them being used. If you were actually taking in what I’m saying and putting two and two together you would understand that I am more likely to see security using handcuffs then the average person like yourself would see. But you are literally incapable of taking in what is being said to you. This isn’t the first and it won’t be the last…
It’s such an appalling style of posting, being so adamant about things when the knowledge isn’t there to back it up.
Despite my posts in this thread you were still asking if I was from the U.K. and you did the exact same thing in a previous thread discussing a policing topic.

You couldn’t get your head around the reasoning behind me describing it as a kidnap. It was so so simple to work out what my point was and yet you completely missed it and then as per you chose to die on that hill. Accusing people of lying when you can’t even be bothered to READ and TAKE things properly is a really bad look. Before you march into threads expressing superior knowledge on topics actually take time out to read what you’re replying to in full context.

What makes this all so ironic is that for someone who seems to present as a fact craver. You said nothing about the post I initially quoted which contained several bits of false information and laws that don’t even exist but for some strange reason you got all obsessive over me mentioning teenage sex trafficking and security using handcuffs. I guess my post wasn’t really anti police/law and so you took issue with that.
 
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TheReligion

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Wouldn't that be a criminal offence?
Handcuffs and the law is quite interesting.

It’s not an offence to carry them in public, or to use them per se. They are not classed as an offensive weapon.

It is, however, an offence if you trespass with them in your possession and they then become a weapon of offence (note, not an offensive weapon). This is because they can be used to incapacitate.

Anyone using handcuffs would have to justify doing so as per use of force legislation. Their application would need to be lawful, proportionate and necessary under the circumstances they were applied.

Simply carrying them, in a public place, is not illegal though.
 

SalfordRed18

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Reporting my previous post, claimin you’re not going to discuss it any longer and yet here you are back again posting absolute bullshit. Bollocks post after bollocks post.
You keep implying I said they all carry it and it’s the norm. Here is what I actually said.




You really really need to actually read posts and take in what people say before you choose to plant your flag. It’s just really bad and lazy posting. When did I say that they carry them every shift?

I have explained already the situations where I’ve come across them being used. If you were actually taking in what I’m saying and putting two and two together you would understand that I am more likely to see security using handcuffs then the average person like yourself would see. But you are literally incapable of taking in what is being said to you. This isn’t the first and it won’t be the last…
It’s such an appalling style of posting, being so adamant about things when the knowledge isn’t there to back it up.
Despite my posts in this thread you were still asking if I was from the U.K. and you did the exact same thing in a previous thread discussing a policing topic.

You couldn’t get your head around the reasoning behind me describing it as a kidnap. It was so so simple to work out what my point was and yet you completely missed it and then as per you chose to die on that hill. Accusing people of lying when you can’t even be bothered to READ and TAKE things properly is a really bad look. Before you march into threads expressing superior knowledge on topics actually take time out to read what you’re replying to in full context.

What makes this all so ironic is that for someone who seems to present as a fact craver. You said nothing about the post I initially quoted which contained several bits of false information and laws that don’t even exist but for some strange reason you got all obsessive over me mentioning teenage sex trafficking and security using handcuffs. I guess my post wasn’t really anti police/law and so you took issue with that.
I didn't report your post at all pal, I personally love it when someone reverts to petty insults because it means you're right.

Not reading any of that because it's a waste of time btw.
 

Ludens the Red

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I didn't report your post at all pal, I personally love it when someone reverts to petty insults because it means you're right.

Not reading any of that because it's a waste of time btw.
Right, as if your ego would allow you to not read it.
But a classic thing to say when you simply can’t double down anymore because at that stage it would just become embarrassing.
 

11101

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It's not an offence but if you were to use handcuffs youd need good reason otherwise you could face a charge if I'm not mistaken.

In terms of SIA accredited security, they don't encourage or discourage security from using handcuffs officially. But no bouncer is going to use cuffs willy nilly, it's not a thing. They don't carry them around on shift. You're opening yourself up to a world of issues with that. It's an utterly bizarre thing to lie about but here we are.
When I worked on doors the priority was always to get troublemakers out of the club, the last thing you wanted to do on a busy Friday night is tie people up detaining somebody. Only if it was something really serious would police be called and as we were in a city centre theyd usually be waiting by the time we got to the door. I don't remember ever seeing cuffs and it definitely wasn't part of the SIA course, officially no restraint techniques were.
 

SalfordRed18

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When I worked on doors the priority was always to get troublemakers out of the club, the last thing you wanted to do on a busy Friday night is tie people up detaining somebody. Only if it was something really serious would police be called and as we were in a city centre theyd usually be waiting by the time we got to the door. I don't remember ever seeing cuffs and it definitely wasn't part of the SIA course, officially no restraint techniques were.
Exactly. Literally not a thing you'd see "countless" times but hey ho what do I know.
 

Ludens the Red

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look at them in their little safe haven patting each other on the back…
Two posters who genuinely think a viable solution to solving the issues in the met is to defund and reform. Christ.
 

Sara125

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65081765.amp

Just gonna leave this here. Children as young as 8 being strip searched…8. EIGHT. In more than half of the instances, no appropriate adult confirmed to be present…and of course, more likely to happen to black children. 51% of searches leading to NFA. Jesus.
 

SalfordRed18

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65081765.amp

Just gonna leave this here. Children as young as 8 being strip searched…8. EIGHT. In more than half of the instances, no appropriate adult confirmed to be present…and of course, more likely to happen to black children. 51% of searches leading to NFA. Jesus.
Disgusting but honestly I'm not shocked.
 

SilentWitness

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If hundreds of officers are going to be removed then surely the hiring process also needs to be revamped?
 

Pexbo

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I’m beginning to think the police might not be virtuous organisation we thought they were.
 

11101

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look at them in their little safe haven patting each other on the back…
Two posters who genuinely think a viable solution to solving the issues in the met is to defund and reform. Christ.
:lol:

If that's how you approach a conflict i think we might see you in one of these articles soon.