UK Rail Strikes

Buster15

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It's not a job which touches the operation of the railway and is classed as safety critical, as I'm sure you know.

Anyway, nothing wrong with strikes but as usual the RMT take it too far and work in the interest of their leaders over their members or the public. Their demands are ridiculous and they know it.
So what should their demands be then?
 

ZupZup

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I think the free market determines salary. If there's 10,000 jobs and 50,000 applications it tells you the job is too highly paid. If there's 50,000 jobs but only 10,000 applications then the wage is far too low. I suspect given the salaries train drivers are paid the former is the case.
Funny how the free market rarely seems to work like this for the top jobs... or are we just going to pretend only a special select few are capable of doing them.
 

TheGame

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I'm fecking fuming this has really hit me in the pocket. I'm not able to go to a couple of gigs this week as a result of this. One wasn't cheap and I'm unable to sell it thanks to the lazy bastards at Ticketmaster.

Tories have sat back and done feck all. Labour can feck off too, not voting for them now at the next election.
Eh? How is this Labours fault? They have been asking that a deal is done.
 

Summit

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It's not a job which touches the operation of the railway and is classed as safety critical, as I'm sure you know.

Anyway, nothing wrong with strikes but as usual the RMT take it too far and work in the interest of their leaders over their members or the public. Their demands are ridiculous and they know it.
What do you mean it doesn't touch the operation of the railway? I'm not sure where you're coming from there? And are you now saying it is safety critical? Because before you said it wasn't

It is probably one of the most safety critical jobs you can get on the railway. I'd love to know your background?
 

711

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What do you mean it doesn't touch the operation of the railway? I'm not sure where you're coming from there? And are you now saying it is safety critical? Because before you said it wasn't

It is probably one of the most safety critical jobs you can get on the railway. I'd love to know your background?
As a former safety critical train manager I say if your job isn't safety critical it bloody well should be :)
 

stepic

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Fully support the strikes. I’m always bemused by normal joes supporting billionaires and other elites.
 

2 man midfield

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I'm fecking fuming this has really hit me in the pocket. I'm not able to go to a couple of gigs this week as a result of this. One wasn't cheap and I'm unable to sell it thanks to the lazy bastards at Ticketmaster.
Just say you’ve got covid. Instant refund from all of those ticket sites.
 

Vidic_In_Moscow

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What do you mean it doesn't touch the operation of the railway? I'm not sure where you're coming from there? And are you now saying it is safety critical? Because before you said it wasn't

It is probably one of the most safety critical jobs you can get on the railway. I'd love to know your background?
As a former safety critical train manager I say if your job isn't safety critical it bloody well should be :)
I think it’s just a semantics thing as I asked myself the same question when I included protection staff. Obviously the ‘safety critical’ without question on the railway usually is referring to anything that will alter the track, rebuilding points, disconnecting safety signalling equipment, maintaining the trains etc and it’s safety critical to the travelling public. Basically tampering with anything that’s designed to fail safe.

Protection staff, Line Controller, signallers etc will have similarly serious safety responsibilities but mainly for the safety of the staff working in the operational railway and is more procedure based than technical. Usually safety critical is used when talking about equipment but it just occurred to me when I worked for LU anyone undertaking my technical duties or just protection duties need to have them both on their safety critical license all the same so it probably does apply to both!
 

Summit

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I think it’s just a semantics thing as I asked myself the same question when I included protection staff. Obviously the ‘safety critical’ without question on the railway usually is referring to anything that will alter the track, rebuilding points, disconnecting safety signalling equipment, maintaining the trains etc and it’s safety critical to the travelling public. Basically tampering with anything that’s designed to fail safe.

Protection staff, Line Controller, signallers etc will have similarly serious safety responsibilities but mainly for the safety of the staff working in the operational railway and is more procedure based than technical. Usually safety critical is used when talking about equipment but it just occurred to me when I worked for LU anyone undertaking my technical duties or just protection duties need to have them both on their safety critical license all the same so it probably does apply to both!
It's never been on network rail that the only people touching or doing actual work on the railway with equipment is classed as safety critical. For instance, a signaller who grants the line blockage to the COSS for technicians to work on points. If there is an error between the COSS and signaller and a train ends up running through the section where work is carried out then the COSS and the signaller will be a risk of losing their jobs. Because someone has seriously made a blunder. People could be hurt or even lose lives....hence why a coss role and a signaller role is safety critical.
 

Vidic_In_Moscow

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It's never been on network rail that the only people touching or doing actual work on the railway with equipment is classed as safety critical. For instance, a signaller who grants the line blockage to the COSS for technicians to work on points. If there is an error between the COSS and signaller and a train ends up running through the section where work is carried out then the COSS and the signaller will be a risk of losing their jobs. Because someone has seriously made a blunder. People could be hurt or even lose lives....hence why a coss role and a signaller role is safety critical.
Yes it’s the same on LU, I was just suggesting maybe @11101 is making a distinction and just means certain types of safety critical roles e.g engineers as opposed to everybody as it’s such a broad range of staff to make a blanket statement about.
 

neverdie

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this was the point i was making in the othert thread. how can anyone who tells people to stand with Ukraine not then stand with union workers who haven't had a payrise in years, whose work is being made unsafe, and all of it in the middle of an inflation and cost of living crisis? using life events and concerts as an excuse to beat a union is a joke. thousands of members aren't striking for the fun of it. losing money by not going to work because of worsening labour conditions is also a life event.

this is where you measure real solidarity, not the hashtag kind. if you can't support workers asking for a modest wage increase then ideas about supporting a foreign war because of some faint notion of solidarity should be tossed in the bin. btw i think we should support both, obviously, but it's funny how the government and tories in general will argue that you should only support one.
 

Summit

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Yes it’s the same on LU, I was just suggesting maybe @11101 is making a distinction and just means certain types of safety critical roles e.g engineers as opposed to everybody as it’s such a broad range of staff to make a blanket statement about.
He's just doubling down tbh because he said network rail don't use agency staff which are safety critical. They do.
 

Buster15

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this was the point i was making in the othert thread. how can anyone who tells people to stand with Ukraine not then stand with union workers who haven't had a payrise in years, whose work is being made unsafe, and all of it in the middle of an inflation and cost of living crisis? using life events and concerts as an excuse to beat a union is a joke. thousands of members aren't striking for the fun of it. losing money by not going to work because of worsening labour conditions is also a life event.

this is where you measure real solidarity, not the hashtag kind. if you can't support workers asking for a modest wage increase then ideas about supporting a foreign war because of some faint notion of solidarity should be tossed in the bin. btw i think we should support both, obviously, but it's funny how the government and tories in general will argue that you should only support one.
Excellent point. Well said.
 

That'sHernandez

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this was the point i was making in the othert thread. how can anyone who tells people to stand with Ukraine not then stand with union workers who haven't had a payrise in years, whose work is being made unsafe, and all of it in the middle of an inflation and cost of living crisis? using life events and concerts as an excuse to beat a union is a joke. thousands of members aren't striking for the fun of it. losing money by not going to work because of worsening labour conditions is also a life event.

this is where you measure real solidarity, not the hashtag kind. if you can't support workers asking for a modest wage increase then ideas about supporting a foreign war because of some faint notion of solidarity should be tossed in the bin. btw i think we should support both, obviously, but it's funny how the government and tories in general will argue that you should only support one.
And then in the next breath will tell you "well nurses only earn £31k a year, so why should a train driver earn more than them?" Distracting people from the point that both sets of people should be earning more and trying to turn you against the people who dare to speak out.
 

neverdie

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And then in the next breath will tell you "well nurses only earn £31k a year, so why should a train driver earn more than them?" Distracting people from the point that both sets of people should be earning more and trying to turn you against the people who dare to speak out.
exactly. classic division tactics. they want worker in-fighting. the truth is that if you support this initiative it will have positive effects for all workers.
 

Oldyella

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Has anyone seen the Mick Lynch interviews today? Just going into interviews with zero fecks given, most amusing
 

ChrisNelson

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Probably something to do with the fact that regardless of whether this strike has any effect he will still be earning a six figure salary and spending his retirement walking from beachside house to beach to bar and back again somewhere in the Caribbean.
 

Forevergiggs1

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And then in the next breath will tell you "well nurses only earn £31k a year, so why should a train driver earn more than them?" Distracting people from the point that both sets of people should be earning more and trying to turn you against the people who dare to speak out.
On a side note here but why should train drivers earn more? They're already on a wage north of 50k which is considerably more than nurses or police. Their wage is actually scandalous considering the job they actually do. Or am I missing some important information here?
 

Acole9

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On a side note here but why should train drivers earn more? They're already on a wage north of 50k which is considerably more than nurses or police. Their wage is actually scandalous considering the job they actually do. Or am I missing some important information here?
I think you're spot on. Unlike some of the holier than thou guff I've seen today. People will soon change their tune if this goes on for a lengthy period.
 

Don't Kill Bill

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On a side note here but why should train drivers earn more? They're already on a wage north of 50k which is considerably more than nurses or police. Their wage is actually scandalous considering the job they actually do. Or am I missing some important information here?
Because if you cut their pay they go on strike and then you find out how much we need them.
 

choccy77

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The problem with this country and the unions etc, is they make it about themselves.

Other countries, they strike but carry on working and just let the passengers on for free, causing no disruption to the public but taking the money away from the owners etc.

This is how it should be done.

Also, gotta love how Sky were trying to insinuate that the pickets would physically harm anyone crossing the line to go to work today.

That Kate Burley is something.
 

SilentWitness

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The problem with this country and the unions etc, is they make it about themselves.

Other countries, they strike but carry on working and just let the passengers on for free, causing no disruption to the public but taking the money away from the owners etc.

This is how it should be done.
That just wouldn’t happen without some poor cnut getting fired.
 

TwoSheds

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On a side note here but why should train drivers earn more? They're already on a wage north of 50k which is considerably more than nurses or police. Their wage is actually scandalous considering the job they actually do. Or am I missing some important information here?
Do you think train drivers, nurses and police all ought to be paid the same? Sounds like a nice communist utopia that.

On a more general note, is it true that in days of yore the striking transport workers would all turn up to work and do their jobs but just leave the ticket barriers open so that their employers would feel the cost of their labour? Can't think why the government banned that if so, almost like they're not on the side of normal people isn't it? :rolleyes:
 

Sweet Square

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The problem with this country and the unions etc, is they make it about themselves.
I don’t want to be rude but genuinely wtf does this even mean ?

If a union is going on strike then of course it’s going to be about themselves, it’s literally impossible for it not to be.
 

MadMike

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I argued for and negotiated a pay rise for myself to match inflation, hinting that I would be looking for other jobs if I wasn’t given it.

As much of a ball ache as these strikes are, RMT workers who haven’t had a pay rise in 3 years totally deserve them and they have every right to protest or strike. I definitely support them.
 

neverdie

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On a side note here but why should train drivers earn more? They're already on a wage north of 50k which is considerably more than nurses or police. Their wage is actually scandalous considering the job they actually do. Or am I missing some important information here?
the point shouldn't be about comparisons. large tide makes all boats rise. if you support this strike and other industrial actions then nurses will end up getting better pay. everyone will. that's how labour struggle works.

remember that this whole "nurses get paid less" argument comes from the same people who brought you the student nurse fiasco and other labour harming actions over many years. they don't give a feck about anyone's working conditions they just want different sections of the same class to turn on each other. that's also why glastonbury and other "life events" are being used. they're also planning to sell off the NHS. when nurses go on strike they'll have people saying "rail workers get paid less". it's complete nonsense.
 
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Kag

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Probably something to do with the fact that regardless of whether this strike has any effect he will still be earning a six figure salary and spending his retirement walking from beachside house to beach to bar and back again somewhere in the Caribbean.
I’ll never understand this sort of line. He has an important job and a lot of responsibility; of course he is going to earn good money. It’s hardly ludicrous money either.
 

Buster15

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On a side note here but why should train drivers earn more? They're already on a wage north of 50k which is considerably more than nurses or police. Their wage is actually scandalous considering the job they actually do. Or am I missing some important information here?
Skilled train drivers may well earn some 50k. But the fact is that there are not that many train drivers in the RMT.
The overwhelming majority earn about half that amount.

Nevertheless, this must not pit workers against workers. That is precisely what the government wants to happen. Each trades union is only responsible for the workers they represent.
It is up to each TU to negotiate the very best outcome for those it represents.
As I keep mentioning. Unity is strength and that is why the government wants to weaken unions and make them irrelevant.
Don't do their job for them.
 

Mockney

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I was under the impression that Train Drivers aren’t the ones mainly striking, and that most are represented by a different union anyway (ASLEF)? They always get brought up though because the kind of people who are against strikes know it can be used to rile up the kind of people who are only paying partial attention

Also you gotta love how Nurses always get dragged into it, whether you’re taking about footballers or influencers or train drivers, and yet if they ever went on strike for the kind of pay people claim to want them to receive, they’d be called tantamount to murderers by a lot of the same folk/press.
 
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